Why do the liberal Democrats want to take guns away from Americans? page 223

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There are NON-combat veterans and COMBAT veterans.
The later aren’t ALL fucked up to the point of being “future terrorists”.
Even the simplist of minds should know THAT.

 
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Oh, I agree Karma. that wasn’t my point. It is the Homeland Security that issued the memorandum on this. I admire combat veterans and the service they have given to our country. I consider them heroes. It is the government that is issuing these statements.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Oh, I agree Karma. that wasn’t my point. It is the Homeland Security that issued the memorandum on this. I admire combat veterans and the service they have given to our country. I consider them heroes. It is the government that is issuing these statements.

Good grief, man. Are YOU so thick that ya aren’t able to understand the basic concept that HS DID NOT SAY ALL? Whereas it is YOU who are implying that it did? Do ya ever get so dizzy going-round-&-round-&-round that ya just fall over?
 
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Are you serious? Where do you get that I am implying anything? I’m am stating my point directly and you are trying to add to it. Just read it as I wrote it and don’t add to it. Read the link again. I gave it to you so you could read what I read.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I admire combat veterans and the service they have given to our country. I consider them heroes.

You wouldn’t know by the way you talk to them, since myself and my husband are both combat veterans.

I was just pointing out you need better sources; this is nothing you haven’t heard before.

 
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Don’t even start. You’re not in any position to tell a combat veteran that they did or didn’t fight “hard” enough for you (despite their classification with the Dept. of Veterans Affairs), and it’s kind of low you’d even try.

 
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I never said we didn’t deserve honor and respect for our contribution to the wars. I am in a position to determine the difference between a combat veteran and a veteran. The first area I served in was a hotspot for enemy sifting over the boarder to spy. One was caught in the hanger I was working in. But I will not claim to be a combat veteran since I was never in the middle of the fray. I don’t have the first scar from a bullet and I wasn’t even shot at.

Edit: You should actually read my post as I made no mention of anyone not fighting hard enough for me. I made the statement that there is a difference between a veteran and a combat veteran. Both deserve respect for serving their country.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

You always have your head buried in the sand, don’t you?

http://americaswatchtower.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-classifies-returning-us-veterans-as-potential-terrorist-threat/

“the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.”

Now, just where did it say that ALL of them……?
When we need jake-o to do his hyperbole trick….he fails us. LOL

Did you see all in my post? No, you didn’t.

YOU just can’t get past being assumptive and hyperbolic….can ya? I’m not sure what “did you see all in my post?” means,,,,I guess it means: did I read your link. There was NOTHING else in that post of yours. AND, yes….I read the whole link. It sounded a weeeebit like “conservative” thinking to me.

There is a difference between just a veteran and one who has been in combat, this is true. but these are the first wars were vets were recycled time after time. That aside, maybe you should do a little bit more research before you poo-poo what is being said.

LOL to the max. First: that ya said “poo-poo”….what are YOU, Mary Poppins? Second: We ALL could probably (SHOULD?) do a lot more “research” in life. BUT, a great concensus on this site infers that YOU lead the pack on this.

You can’t seem to answer a post accurately.

NO…I bow to YOUR excelence in that area.

Here is the entirety of the link in YOUR post:

This morning I wrote a post about a Homeland Security paper that warned about “right wing extremists” and the threat that they may pose to the government.

This paper basically lumped in people who are either pro second amendment, anti abortion, anti illegal immigration, or pro smaller government (or more than one or all of the above) with white supremacists and domestic terrorists. As maddening as I found that paper there was one aspect to the paper that I missed this morning and to me it is much more egregious. This is what the Department of Homeland Security thinks about our military men and women who are overseas fighting on our behalf:

“the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks”

That is unforgivable. To suggest that some of our troops will come home and form or join terrorist groups is beyond reprehensible. And why suddenly is the Department of Homeland Security suddenly using the “T” word again when talking about our troops when they refuse to call the actual terrorists what they are? The report continues:

Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to right-wing extremists,” it says. “DHS/I&A is concerned that right-wing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize veterans in order to boost their violent capacities

I find it very interesting to see how these people really feel about our veterans.

. . . . . . .
Since YOU posted it, I’m left to assume that YOU tacitly agree w/ it. That asshole is pretty much saying that we should ignore PTSS and take for granted that ALL service personel returning from war zones don’t have emotional issues as a result of being in some really heavy shit.

How ridiculously naive.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Since YOU posted it, I’m left to assume that YOU tacitly agree w/ it. That asshole is pretty much saying that we should ignore PTSS and take for granted that ALL service personel returning from war zones don’t have emotional issues as a result of being in some really heavy shit.

How ridiculously naive.

That author clearly has never been in any combat situation. Even something as simple as shellshock is quite capable of triggering emotional issues.

 
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This is all very silly.
Anybody that doesn’t hide under a rock can see that America has a gun violence problem.
By denying the statistics is like standing inside your house while it burns and say “Yeah, there are fires, but there are worse fires!”
The World hears almost every week about murders involving guns in America…but the people there just stand there and say “Yeah, that’s ok, as long as I can protect myself!”
Well, goodluck America, keep having the highest gun murder rate in the Western World…as long as you have you freedom to bear ‘arms". It’s working out just right for you huh?

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I am in a position to determine the difference between a combat veteran and a veteran. The first area I served in was a hotspot for enemy sifting over the boarder to spy.

No, actually you’re not. That’s the VA’s job, depending on when someone was in, whether there was fire, a purple heart, their theatre of operations, and other things. The point is, you don’t know what someone else has and hasn’t done, and attempting to judge from afar whether they were in combat or not is foolish.

 
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Yanno, the easy way to check and avoid this whole argument is to check the source , I am assuming wnd has not simply falsified the document here, of course.

(U//FOUO) Returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists. DHS/I&A is concerned that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to boost their violent capabilities.

The issue is not that they think veterans are a risk, but that they think that extremist groups will actively seek to groom and recruit veterans due to them having the sort of skills that right wing terror groups would want to have.

This is obviously true, and a complete non-story.

 
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Anybody that doesn’t hide under a rock can see that America has a gun violence problem.

I don’t think its a gun violence problem specifically, but more generally we’re a more violent people than our friends across the Atlantic. Take, for instance, sports. Europeans enjoy watching people jog around a field and when one of the joggers gets knocked down, they roll around on the ground, cry, have some magic spray sprayed onto their ‘hurt’ and continue jogging while occasionally kicking a ball around. Americans watch a sport where the players play with broken ribs and chance having their mental capacities eliminated as they age.

 
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Take, for instance, sports. Europeans enjoy watching people jog around a field and when one of the joggers gets knocked down, they roll around on the ground, cry, have some magic spray sprayed onto their ‘hurt’ and continue jogging while occasionally kicking a ball around. Americans watch a sport where the players play with broken ribs and chance having their mental capacities eliminated as they age.

We’re talking about a sport where people wear full body armour to play a game that is essentially rugby. Bunch of pansies.

I can trivialise things to. :)

 
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I don’t think its a gun violence problem specifically, but more generally we’re a more violent people than our friends across the Atlantic. Take, for instance, sports. Europeans enjoy watching people jog around a field and when one of the joggers gets knocked down, they roll around on the ground, cry, have some magic spray sprayed onto their ‘hurt’ and continue jogging while occasionally kicking a ball around. Americans watch a sport where the players play with broken ribs and chance having their mental capacities eliminated as they age.

Hockey is basically the most violent mainstream, televised sport in the world, outside of MMA. We canadians excel at hockey. We don’t excel at blowing each others heads off with hand cannons. What a curiosity.

 
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You misunderstand me. I’m not insulting anybody; I’m attempting to get you not to insult veterans by belittling specific ones and their contributions.

Go ahead and call them a bunch of idiots, but they are the Veterans Administration; they keep records on all of the incidents (major and minor) that occur during a veteran’s term of service. If they are classified as purple heart, disabled vet, combat, what have you, then they are.

We all know there are varying degrees of disability—some people served during peacetime while others had all four extremities completely blown off and scarred. What I’m saying is, it’s not up to you to put different veterans in your own little categories by saying, “Well, my family are the real heroes, but that guy over there in the wheelchair, whatever.” You haven’t been with them during their term of service, you haven’t looked at their records or DD-214, you haven’t peeked in their individual files, so you don’t know.

And here’s the real kicker—even if you were told by them about incidents or catastrophic service connected injuries, you probably still wouldn’t remember.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Yes, I am! I don’t have to listen to a government bureaucracy to be able to determine ….

Tell me, jake-o…is there ANYTHING about “the” govt. that ya DO LIKE?

 
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Jhco, it is entirely possible to have your limbs blown off whilst serving in peacetime, you know. There was one about a month back. He worked in mine disposal. Never saw combat in his service, but he still lost his hand and forearm to the service.

To claim that you have to be under live fire to suffer permanent, dehabilitating injury and severe emotional trauma is a horrific piece of misinformation.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:

Jhco, it is entirely possible to have your limbs blown off whilst serving in peacetime, you know. There was one about a month back. He worked in mine disposal. Never saw combat in his service, but he still lost his hand and forearm to the service.

To claim that you have to be under live fire to suffer permanent, dehabilitating injury and severe emotional trauma is a horrific piece of misinformation.

That’s the thing….there are a lot of veterans who are suffering in severe ways that aren’t visible. What about the PTSD or Military Sexual Trauma cases that are just coming out? I’m working with a vet right now that is 100% service connected for cancer. You can’t always see these things just by looking at them. The etiology of catastrophic disability takes many different forms and is not always cut and dry.

 
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Oh I definitely agree, Twilight. Post traumatic stress is only visible in behavior – if the triggers are visible and not internalised. They suffer in silence in those cases, but they still suffer. I’m mostly angry about the claim that real disability is somehow limited only to combat vets.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by jhco50:

Yes, I am! I don’t have to listen to a government bureaucracy to be able to determine ….

Tell me, jake-o…is there ANYTHING about “the” govt. that ya DO LIKE?

Excellent question. Not a lot. Now let me explain why. government has changed drastically in the last, say 50 years. Power and money is what is important to politicians. They pass laws to restrict citizens and make themselves excluded from those same laws. They take from the citizen and hand out the money to their cronies in Washington or wall street. Then try to lie to the American people that they are saving us from ourselves.

After the election you are going to see a 40% tax hike on the American people. It will effect everyone, even those who are making poverty wages. We are headed for a fiscal cliff caused by politicians who can’t curb their spending. You ask me why I dislike government? It is because they aren’t representing the people, they are representing themselves.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:

You misunderstand me. I’m not insulting anybody; I’m attempting to get you not to insult veterans by belittling specific ones and their contributions.

Go ahead and call them a bunch of idiots, but they are the Veterans Administration; they keep records on all of the incidents (major and minor) that occur during a veteran’s term of service. If they are classified as purple heart, disabled vet, combat, what have you, then they are.

We all know there are varying degrees of disability—some people served during peacetime while others had all four extremities completely blown off and scarred. What I’m saying is, it’s not up to you to put different veterans in your own little categories by saying, “Well, my family are the real heroes, but that guy over there in the wheelchair, whatever.” You haven’t been with them during their term of service, you haven’t looked at their records or DD-214, you haven’t peeked in their individual files, so you don’t know.

And here’s the real kicker—even if you were told by them about incidents or catastrophic service connected injuries, you probably still wouldn’t remember.

I am not belittling any veterans. I appreciate anyone willing to serve our country. This started because you claimed to be a combat veteran and you are not. Nor would I consider myself a combat veteran. We were not in the combat arena. There is nothing wrong with that. I respect all veterans, including you, your husband, and my son-in-law. We have all contributed to the freedoms of this country. All I am saying is you, your husband, me, and my son-in-law (so far) are not combat veterans.

 
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