Why do the liberal Democrats want to take guns away from Americans? page 155

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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

Which we have done many times before. Each time revealing the fact that its not like you think it is. As you say in Switzerland men who are part of the reserves(age 20-30) are issued assault rifles to stow at home(later they can keep a semi-automatic version of their weapons if they so desire and are otherwise eligible). Which partly explains the very high gun ownership. What you obvious either don´t know or don´t care to mention is that the ammunition for those came in sealed boxes and the boxes had to be shown yearly(or more) to show that they were not opened(today the ammunition is generally stored at the bases).

And that’s relevant to the point that I was making how?

The fact remains that there are, approximately as many guns in private hands in Switzerland (per capita) as there are in the US and far more than here in the UK.

The fact remains that Switzerland (with very high gun ownership) has a lower murder & violent crime rates than both the UK (with practically no gun ownership) and the US.

The point being, contrary to the post that I replied to, that one can not simply equate the number of guns in a society to the level of violence in that country (incidentally, the same is true of several other countries with high gun ownership)… One must look for other reasons to explain why the Americans (by comparison) appear to be so intent on killing one another (a feat achievable without the presence of firearms).

 
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Originally posted by Draconavin:

Everytime I get “this” close to believing people should carry weapons for their own protection against criminals, I always remember that this is a fantasy world that doesn’t exist for most people, and using a gun just becomes an escalator for more violent crime to occur.

I agree w/ this….at least in the principle of it. Ya’re right,,,while there is the “real world” of sensible ppl who present NO problem albeit they have immediate accessibility to their gun,,,there are many—on a sliding scale—who are very questionable and a few that are down-right scary when it comes to on-body access to a firearm.

I believe it is a fair analogy if we change the above wording to be automobiles,,,vehicles. Quite a few more deaths happen because of piss-poor driving than does happen w/ guns. Yes, I’d say that most of us “pull a boner” when driving and are lucky enough to not get caught by the fickle finger of fate. BUT, it is those drivers who have this belief that their driving ability & their precious lifestyle somehow allows them to be much more aggressive on the road…..typically displaying extreme if not outright illegal driving. These drivers probably are the cause of most traffic accidents & deaths.

While, as I stated, there is a correlation between gun usage (self protection) and driving (we even have the term: “defensive driving technique”)….I would very much like to have some real numbers on the comparison of the two of them.


“People” always fixate on the smaller picture never the bigger picture, as often does the person.

LOL, in all fairness (to jhco) Draconavin, please watch your usage of the hyperbole (always). It’s just too “intense” of an evaluation.

BUT, ya’re ever so right about ppl & their perceptions. AND, this smaller picture—as I mention above about those specific dangerous drivers—is a product of a highly egotistical selfishness that causes them to see that part of the “big picture” as it pertains to them….thereby reducinmg it to that smaller picture.

 
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Originally posted by donseptico:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

Which we have done many times before. Each time revealing the fact that its not like you think it is. As you say in Switzerland men who are part of the reserves(age 20-30) are issued assault rifles to stow at home(later they can keep a semi-automatic version of their weapons if they so desire and are otherwise eligible). Which partly explains the very high gun ownership. What you obvious either don´t know or don´t care to mention is that the ammunition for those came in sealed boxes and the boxes had to be shown yearly(or more) to show that they were not opened(today the ammunition is generally stored at the bases).

And that’s relevant to the point that I was making how?

The fact remains that there are, approximately as many guns in private hands in Switzerland (per capita) as there are in the US and far more than here in the UK.

The fact remains that Switzerland (with very high gun ownership) has a lower murder & violent crime rates than both the UK (with practically no gun ownership) and the US.

The point being, contrary to the post that I replied to, that one can not simply equate the number of guns in a society to the level of violence in that country (incidentally, the same is true of several other countries with high gun ownership)… One must look for other reasons to explain why the Americans (by comparison) appear to be so intent on killing one another (a feat achievable without the presence of firearms).

Ah yes, sorry missed the context. So used to Switzerland being brought up falsely as a land of lax gun control that i reacted rather automatically.

 
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I have a story: When i was 18. I was at the range, Then some crazy guy shot me in the gallbladder, I was still alive, And after he shot me, Somebody saw him and shot very fast. If that person did not have a gun, The crazy man would have saw that i was still alive, And would have shot again. (Some depressed person at the Hospotal Donated their gallbladder) That expamle Shows that guns have saved Lives.They are a tool, It is not guns that are so voinet, It is the hands they are in. And to make sure they are in the right hands, We do a back ground check to make sure they are not crazy. You libs need to think alot more deeply Into things. Right now, Take about 30 mins Thinking about guns, And Try to realize, It is Not the gun itself, But the Man who has the gun. We do so much to enforce That the gun is in the right hands. People who rob banks or kill people Took someone elses Gun. Make sure,If your a democrat, To take 30 mins thinking about guns. And I close.

 
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@OP: They don’t with the exception of a few morons like the VPC and Mrs. “Shoulder thing that goes up”, they dont want to take away ALL guns. Just the fun ones :P

@GunControlDebate

Its got nothing to do with gun ownershp and everything to do with culture and economic factors. Crime is almost completely unrelated to gun ownership #s.

 
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If that person did not have a gun, The crazy man would have saw that i was still alive, And would have shot again.

Wow, a case study. That definitely helps your argument. Or not. Since your example just as well shows that guns end lives as it shows that it “saves” them (there were two people wounded in your scenario, neither person got healed due to the gun shot).

One must look for other reasons to explain why the Americans (by comparison) appear to be so intent on killing one another

Actually, yes, that was one of my issues. I don’t necessarily blame guns for this, but I’m still wondering about it. What I can say is that there are too many factors involved to make a conclusion one way or another.

Its got nothing to do with gun ownershp and everything to do with culture and economic factors. Crime is almost completely unrelated to gun ownership

That’s not true, but perhaps you meant it differently. It is related, but since there are so many other factors related to it as well, it’s far from the main factor.

 
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That is what i said in my post, The one with the story.

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

Guns can save lives. Let’s say that Some one is about to kill you, You need to shoot them before they kill you.

Tasers can save lives. Let’s say that someone is about to kill you. You need to tase them before they kill you.

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

Guns can save lives. Let’s say that Some one is about to kill you, You need to shoot them before they kill you.

Yeah, save one life by taking another, perfect idea.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Bobneson:

Guns can save lives. Let’s say that Some one is about to kill you, You need to shoot the ass before they kill you.

Yeah, save one life by taking another, perfect idea Asshole.

Would you rather Die And have some crimal who does not deserve to live Keep doing what he is doing?

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

Would you rather Die And have some crimal who does not deserve to live Keep doing what he is doing?

You mean in jail?


And as EPR said before: taser.

And one more thing to note: Keeping guns away from the people who would use them unprovoked is exactly what some people are fighting for.

Oh, and one last thing, don’t put words in my mouth, or quotes for that matter, because as I said before (I think I did, at least) it just makes you look immature.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Bobneson:

Would you rather Die And have some crimal who does not deserve to live Keep doing what he is doing?

You mean in jail?


And as EPR said before: taser.

And one more thing to note: Keeping guns away from the people who would use them unprovoked is exactly what some people are fighting for.

Oh, and one last thing, Do put words in my mouth, And quotes for that matter, because as I said before (I Know I did) it makes you look mature.

Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Bobneson:

Would you rather Die And have some crimal who does not deserve to live Keep doing what he is doing?

You mean in jail?


And as EPR said before: taser.

And one more thing to note: Keeping guns away from the people who would use them unprovoked is exactly what some people are fighting for.

Oh, and one last thing, don’t put words in my mouth, or quotes for that matter, because as I said before (I think I did, at least) it just makes you look immature.

The only thing to defeat something is itself or something more powerful. He will have a gun And a taser is not as powerful.And aslo, When someone does something, It is in his heart forever, So when released from Prison, He’ll still do it.

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

The only thing to defeat something is itself or something more powerful. He will have a gun And a taser is not as powerful.

Tasers are actually pretty powerful, I mean you’re not going to kill him, but he’s sure as hell not going to shoot you.

And aslo, When someone does something, It is in his heart forever, So when released from Prison, He’ll still do it.

No.

No, that’s not how it works.

 
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When someone does something, It is in his heart forever, So when released from Prison, He’ll still do it.

By that logic, we should kill all prisoners. Whatever they did that landed them in jail will just be repeated when they leave, because they’ll “still do it” when released.

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

The only thing to defeat something is itself or something more powerful. He will have a gun And a taser is not as powerful.

So you’re saying you should just out-gun them? Don’t get me wrong, firearms are fine for personal protection, but you have to watch logic like this or it escalates out of control. Example: Taser isn’t strong enough so counter with a gun, gun not sufficient so counter with an assault rifle, assault rifle not sufficient so counter with a grenade launcher, GL not sufficient so counter with a tank, etc. It needs to stop at some point.

And aslo, When someone does something, It is in his heart forever, So when released from Prison, He’ll still do it.

Not necessarily. Some people are career criminals but if the above statement was true, prisons and other facilities would not bother with rehabilitative programs. They are by definition about re-training someone’s thought process and giving a second chances.

 
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….alrighty then.

 
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Originally posted by tenco1:
Originally posted by Bobneson:

Would you rather Die And have some crimal who does not deserve to live Keep doing what he is doing?

You mean in jail?


And as EPR said before: taser.

And one more thing to note: Keeping guns away from the people who would use them unprovoked is exactly what some people are fighting for.

Oh, and one last thing, don’t put words in my mouth, or quotes for that matter, because as I said before (I think I did, at least) it just makes you look immature.

If the bad guy got you, He had plans to cover up the crime, Or why else would he be doing it anyway? He isn’t going to jail. And he’ll even use a silenced Weapon to prevent a gunshot heard thorghout the neibhor hood.

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

Oh hai, immaturity.

And this has been stated over and over again (more than I think is necessarily, really) that when you post your ideas here, on this forum, that you are allowing those points to be questioned and argued against, and that the people who disagree are not trying to make you think differently, just voice their opinion.

Originally posted by Bobneson:

If the bad guy got you, He had plans to cover up the crime, Or why else would he be doing it anyway?

If he did it on a whim, he’s insane.

If he did it because he hates my guts, it’s premeditated.

Either way, it’s still murder, and he’ll still go to jail if he’s found guilty.

He isn’t going to jail. And he’ll even use a silenced Weapon to prevent a gunshot heard thorghout the neibhor hood.

Yeah, a few things I would like to point out here:

1. You’re acting like he’s thought this through, why? (Why is he and why are you?)

2. Your arguments are actually making it sound like regulating guns would be a good thing.

3. Tasers.

 
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Taser? A taser? He’ll shoot you before you even get close To tase him.

Tenco, Are you the kind that admits He is wrong? Or are you just still fighting?

 
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Originally posted by Bobneson:

Taser? A taser? He’ll shoot you before you even get close To tase him.

1. There are such things as taser guns. (I can’t remember the exact name.)

2. What specific scenario are you thinking of, because it seems to keep changing.

3. As I have said before, your arguments can very easily be seen as ways to support gun regulation.

Originally posted by Bobneson:

Tenco, Are you the kind that admits He is wrong? Or are you just still fighting?

Yes, if I was wrong.

 
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Tasers(I’m going to start calling you tasers, Are you okay with that?) , If we out lawed guns, Guns will still be used by Crimals. If a group of crimals came to your house, You’ll only be Able to tase one at a time.