Democratic Party Nomination page 3

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See greg? This is the crap that scares the hell out of me. Obama has every right to run, but I’m worried that the political (i.e. fear) climate right now is just not going to…mesh with him…

Yes, I know almost no repubs or even moderates would vote for Clinton but it could very well be the same case with Obama. I suppose the educated, disenfranchised Republicans would, but I have my concerns about John Q Public. Then again, how likely are those who are going to be swayed but such absurd claims really likely to vote Democrat anyway? Perhaps my fears are misplaced.

 
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It’s common knowledge that Obama’s father was from Kenya (i.e., Africa, i.e., as far removed from the Middle East and Muslims as Antarctica), and it’s even more common knowledge that he’s not a Muslim. These attacks will do nothing more than victimize him and draw support. Remember how people rallied behind Bush after “Fahrenheit 9/11”? And that was a LEGITIMATE issue. Just imagine an issue as ridiculous as this one.

At my college, pro-lifers used to hold protests on the Quad where they’d march around with picket signs showing graphic images of aborted fetuses, then chant about how abortion is murder. They’d take donations, “educate” the students walking by, etc. Off to the side, there would always be a small booth for Planned Parenthood. They would have their own sign, but it would be much simpler. It simply read, “Angry? Donate here.” I read an article in the student newspaper once where a spokesperson for the Planned Parenthood organization on campus said that she always looked forward to the pro-life demonstrations, since it meant that they’d receive more donations than any time of the year.

I guess I figure that attacks against Obama’s race will be kind of like that.

 
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My concern is that “common knowledge” is determined by popular opinion, not fact (for example, the globe was invented well before Christopher Columbus ever made his journey). I sincerely hope that you’re right though. I did miss people rallying behind Bush after that movie (seriously? I thought that one shot of him golfing was one of the most damning things I’ve ever seen of the man…), though I suppose I can see how it’d happen. It’s looking very likely that we’re going to find out pretty soon, so I do sincerely hope you’re right.

That’s an excellent story about Planned Parenthood though – brilliant sign!

 
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greg is correct, barrack obama is not muslim. He was born in hawaii, and then moved to india. his mother was American, and father Kenya. He has no terrorist what so ever. he went to harvard law school, and columbia universty. As you can see he is a well educated man, with no muslim, or terrorist roots.

 
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ppl – I never said otherwise. I know it’s not true, what scares me is that people make these claims, spread these rumors, and then some people start to believe they’re true. It’s viral information and it has potential to do a lot of harm.

 
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So Obama had a grandfather who converted from Christianity to Islam, and he was named Hussein after his grandfather long before Saddam came into power (who had no connections to al-Qaida anyway). What’s your point?

 
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I think Yoshi is basically just trolling at this point (considering a post he made in another forum just a couple minutes ago as well), but I suppose the only possible point is that there’s just enough truth in this rumor to make people wonder. Of course, such rumors can be made on most anyone, and that’s a normal part of running for office, but this particular rumor, in this political climate, could be particularly damaging. At the same time, perhaps I’m just being overly paranoid about it. Hopefully he’ll just take it in stride, and hopefully McCain will have the integrity to personally squash such rumors in the interest of running a fair and honest campaign.

 
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Oh yeah, thats riiiight LEGAL immigration. Libertarians support reforming legal immigration.

By libertarian standards, most of our illegal immigrants would be legal. That’s right, the exact same people. Is the label of “legal” or “illegal” really so important to you?

But, this said, I’ve reached the end of the document and NOWHERE in the passage does the lp state “I will never deport a single illegal immigrant from this country.”

Are you really that out of touch with your own party’s stance, that you’d rely on an online FAQ to tell you what you supposedly believe? No one is deporting any illegal immigrants. Not McCain, not Hillary, not Obama, and not the libertarian candidate. What’s your issue here, exactly? That Obama was honest about it? Do you actually believe that a libertarian candidate would deport illegal immigrants? Seriously? Are you that out of touch with your own party?

Stop relying on my links, and do your own damn research about the party you supposedly belong to. I was a libertarian once too (you know, back in high school, when it was the cool thing to do), and even at the age of 17 I managed to at least get a basic understanding of where the party stands on the deportation of illegal immigrants.

 
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This is an appropriate time for a slow clap, I beleive.

Slow claps for Greg

 
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clap,clap….

 
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You create a quote using “bq.”

So:

bq. This is a quote

will yield

This is a quote

Make sure you put a space after the . and no spaces before the b.

 
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Thanks Phoenix!

 
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C’mon dude, just because I am a libertarian, this does not mean that I have to agree with every single view that the party has. As I’ve stated before, I disagree with some of the libertarian’s view points. I align myself with the party that I have the views in common with, and if we differ, that really isn’t my party. (Its called not blindly following a parties political platform.) Yes, I do believe that the Libertarian party would actually deport illegals. The party would not round them up because this would waste taxpayer dollars, instead I could see them deporting the illegals that break laws.

You claimed the libetarian candidate woudl deport illegal immigrants, but they have not. Which would make you out of touch with your party. Your continued insistence on this fact makes me beleive that you still are.

Hahahaha! Do you realize what your saying here? Effectively you have told me not to use sources that you have posted in my counter argument. Yeah, I hate to break it to you, but thats how things work. Besides, I hope you realize that you took the link from the actual Libertarian Party website (www.lp.org), and since this would be the website with the most reliable information about the party, why would I go anywhere else?

Well, it may provide reliable information of the party, but it doesn’t provide any information on the candidates you claim. The website itself says nothing about deporting illegal immigrants, by the way, and it is completly extreme on what government should do. It basically calls for anarchy, besides having a border that is secure (with what money, since they state they want to abolish taxation?) and certain simple restrictions on immigration (from what I can tell, no violent criminal background).

Um, this is not what the libertarians believe. I’m assuming that you realize the illegal immigrants have broken the law. And they would still be illegal because they are undocumented. Yes, they would be considered legal except they have broken the law and surpassed the system.

Wrong. They broke the current system. Libertarians don’t beleive in it. Libertarians don’t want documentation, if you would read your own site. I quote:

Documenting the entry of individuals must be restricted to screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security…

Clearly, they don’t need documentation of the actual entry. All they would ask is that any immigrant that has crossed the border before would show them that they don’t have a criminal history or some rare disease from their native country, as far as I can tell. Out of touch with your party, again?

4) I’m 24 man. I don’t appreciate you calling me a kid, or telling me that I’m only doing the “cool” thing. My father was a libertarian, and I was raised as one. So, please cut the shit out about I’m only doing this because its “cool.”

Hell. You just did the extreme non-libertarian thing to do. You claim you are a libertarian because your father raised you as one. If you would read the libertarian statements on religion, they are clearly against kids being forced to beleive in what their parents want them too (though I am sure they would make exceptions for an example that adds to their swellikng ranks). It turns out that you aren’t doing it because it is cool. You may be doing it because your dad thought it is cool, but as far as I can tell, you are doing it for a worse reason. You can’t think for yourself, and accept the views impressed on you (in a non-libertarian way) by your parents, who seem to have misinformed you about many libertarian policies.

Also, if you act like a kid, and are younger than Greg, the “kid” comment is still in line. You are barely old enough to vote and are acting a little kid in most of your posts (of course, I am only 14, but at least I usually act maturely).

5) Kind of off topic here, but will someone tell me how to quote things. I’m quite the dumbass and can’t figure out how to from the formatting help.

Use "bq. " without the quotes. To make it clear, you type it with no caps, with a space after the period. It is on the formatting help screen whenever you post, after all.

 
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C’mon dude, just because I am a libertarian, this does not mean that I have to agree with every single view that the party has.

You said you wouldn’t vote for Obama over a single issue, but then you said you might vote for another party that has the same stance on the same issue. Forgive me for finding this a bit odd.

Yes, I do believe that the Libertarian party would actually deport illegals.

No, dude, they won’t. The fundamental principle of the libertarian party is as LITTLE government involvement as possible. Less bureaucracy, less taxes, fewer rules, more freedom, etc. The libertarian party basically just thinks that the government’s role is to maintain a small, purely defensive military, to keep our basic infrastructure working, and to maintain a police force that only really focuses on violent crimes. No, this is not anarchy, but it is more in that direction from where the Democrats/Republicans stand. I can’t believe I have to state the principles of the party in such basic, simple terms to you, but seeing as how you seem to believe that the deportation of illegal immigrants somehow fits into the above philosophy, it seems to be necessary.

Effectively you have told me not to use sources that you have posted in my counter argument.

No, what I’m saying is that you should go beyond what I’ve posted. All you’re doing is NOT finding anything on lp.org explicitly stating that they wouldn’t deport illegal immigrants, even though the rest of the entry clearly indicates that they advocate less involvement and fewer penalties regarding illegal immigrants than the current system, which also does not deport them. You are dancing around this fact, while making absolutely no attempt on your own to provide any evidence that the party would deport illegal immigrants.

Um, this is not what the libertarians believe. I’m assuming that you realize the illegal immigrants have broken the law. And they would still be illegal because they are undocumented. Yes, they would be considered legal except they have broken the law and surpassed the system.

You’re splitting hairs, and you know what I meant. If libertarians were in charge, most of our illegal immigrants would have been able to come to this country legally. I’m not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing; my point here is that is this label of legal/illegal really that important to you? Is the fact that they have some documentation really THAT significant? What I said is that the same people would be in our country if libertarians were in charge; the only difference is that they’d be legal rather than illegal. If you so strongly advocate deporting illegal immigrants, then why do you not also feel that the legal process should be as difficult as it is? That’s what I’m trying to figure out. I personally would be fine with making it easier to immigrate to America legally, but then again, I’m not the one saying that we should deport all the current illegal ones.

I’m 24 man. I don’t appreciate you calling me a kid

I never called you a kid.

My father was a libertarian, and I was raised as one.

My parents were Democrats, and I was raised as one too. All of my friends growing up shared the same political party as their parents. You know what’s interesting about this? None of us had any idea what that meant. I grew up in a suburban area that was mostly Republican. During the 1992 elections, I remember arguing with my friends about who should be the next president between Clinton and Bush. And you know what? None of us had any idea what the difference between the two candidates were. All we understood was that we belonged to that party, and that party had to be right.

When I got to high school, I did my own research and decided that I was a libertarian. Most of the people I knew were all Republicans, because that’s what they’d been raised as — they still had absolutely no idea what “Republican” even meant. I continued to research the issues, and by the time I was in college, I had decided that I was a Democrat: not because this was how I was raised, but because I started to realize that the platform made the most sense to me.

When you say that you are a libertarian because you were raised as one, then you go on to talk about how strongly you oppose a candidate who won’t deport illegal immigrants, I’m sorry, but I have to really question how much research you’ve actually done.