Abortion: How do we Feel?

I know pretty much nothing at all about this situation. I haven’t been keeping updated on what’s going on, how it works, etc. I just want some people to tell me how they feel about abortion, so that I can pick a side on the matter. Also, it would help if you all backed up what you say with information, because as I said, I don’t know much about it, and I don’t want to trust you all on deciding how I feel about it. I want to choose on my own, according to other people’s arguments, so I can decide which ones make more sense to me.

I think that the decision is completely up to the parents. As far as I can see, we should have total control over our own bodies and as long as the baby is in the mother’s body then she should have complete control over it.

txw who says you have to chose one side over the other? This is a very grey area and you could have mixed feelings even after reading the comments which will ensue.

For me i do have mixed feelings, abortion greatly depends on the situation and the point in pregnancy for which it is being considered. Whether the baby is healthy or not raises another point to consider.

Yeah, you’re right. I don’t need to know whether I support it or don’t support it, but right now it is only a grey area for me because I am uninformed. I wouldn’t mind it being a grey area if I knew why I felt this way, but I’m pretty clueless.

The classical argument opn the matter is that abortion is murder.

Wich promts the question: “When does life begin?”
Furhter another question arises from this that debate: What is a life.

Catholics say that abortion is murder, the laws of my country says it’s ok until hmm… I can’t quite recall now since it’s never really been a practical issiue for me (thankfully).

Perhaps this all boils down to where you stand, where you draw the line, and if you’re willing to look at the grey area instead of viewing it all in black and white.

Yes, I understand what you all are saying, but what about in a situation like a rape? Or if the child has severe brain damage, and it’s bad enough that this child will never be able to value life/regret losing it/be excited from not losing it?

Well, what about rape?

In most cases I can understand why someone would want an abortion then.
Noone wants to be reminded every single day about that one fateful night.
On the other hand, what if the woman in question has a really low chance of getting pregnant at all,
and doctors have said it is highly unlikely she will ever have babies.

You might say I’m complicating things here, but these things have happened.

My personal opinion on the subject is quite clear, and a buddy of mine has suffered due to how the laws work in regards of abortion in my country.
The woman decides everything when it comes to keeping or discarding the fetus. His story; during highschool he got his first girlfriend pregnant, the one he made his sexual debut with. She was 25, 7 years older, and when she got pregnant she controlled the outcome. Anyhow, that is a diffrent discussion around whom shall decide what if and when, etc.

As for severe braindamage and handicaps of misc variations; would YOU yourself prefer a healthy child or a child that forever needs the caretaking of a child? There are no guarantees that a healthy child will turn out good in the end either, but atleast the odds are better.
Another question that arises when you ask about brain damage and the such. WIll that child grow into an adult and live a worthy life?
What is then a worthy life?

Ironicly enough the most commonly mentioned mental handicap is down syndrome. Those affected by this however are often able to function quite well.
Especially when compared to the more serious ailments that rarely get brought up in the public discussions.

That does make sense! I never thought about the fact that her child would be a constant reminder of the rape, but I do know someone who is alive because her mother was raped, and didn’t get an abortion. What do you mean when you’re talking about the really low chance of getting pregnant at all? I think you could’ve been clearer there. Do you mean that she probably won’t get pregnant the vast majority of the time (even larger vast majority than normal women) and yet she got pregnant from a rape? I don’t think it would effect things much if the child had down syndrome, but say the child really couldn’t do much of anything by themselves, ever. I’m not sure if I would get frustrated occasionally if I had a child like that, because all the time, he/she would need my help. That might take away a lot from my life, and my occupation (if I still can get a valuable one after having to spend so much time at home with this child).

I think that the decision is completely up to the parents. As far as I can see, we should have total control over our own bodies and as long as the baby is in the mother’s body then she should have complete control over it.

But then, shouldn’t the baby have complete control over their bodies? Of course, they can’t decide for themselves at such a small age, but I think you get the point. Who has control? The one who carries the baby or the baby who will have that body the rest of their life? If you say it is both of their bodies, then you must get consent from both, which of course is impossible. As long as the baby will not prove fatal for the mother or the baby, then I do not believe that abortion should be used (especially after brain development starts). I think there are viable options (i.e. setting up for abortion, abstaining from sex/ safe sex practices [which may not be available in the rare case of becoming pregnant by rape], or actually raising the child they probably deserve carrying).

There are ways to avoid abortion, yes, but shouldn’t the mother have COMPLETE control over abortion (with whoever impregnated her, but that’s beside the point). I mean, is it really ending a life if it didn’t start yet? Would the child really have the ability to think about it, at that stage in it’s life/prelife (depends how you look at it).

Hmm, major grey area. It all depends on how it happened, what having a baby would mean, how far developed the foetus is etc etc. But abortion is definately the right thing to do in some cases.

I am for abortion, simply because I don’t think the baby is developed enough to know anything or feel anything when it is “aborted”. Usually.

It’s not ending a life, really. The life has not begun (IMO) until it has entered the human world and left the womb.

I think that with so many other options with adoption there’s no reason to get an abortion. You can have your kid and monstrously give it up to someone else if that’s what you want. Next time, keep your pants on.

Unfortunately, there are people who get fertilized by rape. That’s a hard situation and I can understand if you don’t want to keep the kid from that. I watched an Iranian (I believe) film called “Turtles can Fly” in which one of the sub-main characters was raped by one of Saddam’s officials. Her child is blind and sleepwalks, making it hard for her and her brother to take care of him. (SPOILER, if you wanted to see the movie.) Finding no other options, she kills herself and her child. (/SPOILER) I can see how the child would be a reminder of the past, but you can get help from that. Again, you can put the child up for adoption or find a therapy center to help you through that problem.

Overall, I find it hard to say that abortion should not be legal though. Because once the government makes it illegal it will become black-marketed. Young hopeless girls will get the procedure done in alley ways with terrible equipment. That’s the only thing pulling at my conscience. Otherwise, I find no reason abortion should be legal.

I don’t really like the idea of abortion. Whether or not “life begins at conception”, potential most certainly does. Who knows what amount of great or terrible people we could have today if not for abortion? As far as rape goes, definitely. It should be an option no matter what. The impact of such a thing on the mother, the entire family, and ultimately the child is too great, and in a situation like that it could very well end up like that movie nerdrock just mentioned. I also think abortions are acceptable if the mother is at a high risk of death.

I just can’t justify it for the purpose of clearing the responsibility of people too stupid to take the steps to prevent pregnancy. There are so many contraceptive options out there it almost seems criminal to just throw your hands up in the air and go “Oh well! I’m not taking responsibility for this! TO THE CLINIC!” And I understand that no contraceptive is 100% reliable and sometimes you can take the precautions and still wind up pregnant, so it’s not like you can reserve it for rapes and complications.

People will always do stupid, irresponsible crap and there’s nothing anyone can really do about it. That’s just the way things are, and it’s never going to change. With that in mind, making abortion illegal isn’t going to stop some teenage girl who got knocked up by her boyfriend from grabbing a coat hanger and doing it herself so her parents don’t find out. I don’t like it and the whole “IT’S IN MY BODY I CAN DO WHAT I WANT!!!” argument seems incredibly selfish to me to the point where I almost want it banned to spite people.

Ultimately though, I think keeping it legal is the best course of action and while I might not like it, I’m sure the alternative is a step in the wrong direction and we and our children would be all worse off for it in the future.

’It’s my body, I can do what I want’ may sound selfish, but it makes sense, doesn’t it? I mean, if you don’t have your way, but you easily can by just saying the word, would you? But I do agree that abortion does ruin alot of potential, and that life doesn’t start until birth. Because of all this, I have no idea which side I am for or against on abortion. I support some of the arguments of both sides.

What do you mean when you’re talking about the really low chance of getting pregnant at all? I think you could’ve been clearer there. Do you mean that she probably won’t get pregnant the vast majority of the time (even larger vast majority than normal women) and yet she got pregnant from a rape? bq.

I’m talking about low change at getting pregnant at all. Sorry about beeing unclear.

In Norway women who go alot to the clinic to get abortion will eventually get turned down.
Since abortion is not the same as birth-contorl. I actually know someone who this happened to, and now she’s a mother. 5th strike.

The questions I predicted earlier did arise.
So I suggest we debate them one at a time.

The central issiue seems to be: When does life start?
So I ask you, do we diffrenciate between sentient life, or life in general?
Let’s go for sentient, since many of the argument presented in abortion also will be transfered to mercy-killings (or whatever expression you use for this act). I.E. pulling the plug on someone in a coma.

Is the act of “pulling the plug” that much diffrent from having an abortion on a fetus that has yet to develope sentience? We can’t ask the comatose patient for answers, but we will trust his closest of kin to choose what they may. Same as the fetus can’t answer for itself.

Muslims have a neat view on this. The fetus is not recognized as a living beeing until born. (Correct me if I’m misinformed).

As for the complete control argument; it is really egoistic. Also the issiue is quite complex.
What if the man making the woman pregnant really wants a child, and she goes behind his back to terminate it?
He has no saying in the matter. It’s all up to her.
On the other side of this argument; what right has a man to force the woman to carry a child she does not want, for 9 long months?

Regarding the “too stupid to avoid pregnancy”: I must agree to a certain point.
If they can, but will not out of neglience or stupidity, use birth control then abortion shouldn’t be an option.
After all, it is not a form of birth-control.
However, some just are plain unlucky. Having unprotected sex and getting a child at the first go is a rare occasion, but it can happen. Also, no birth-control known to man has a 100% guarantee of blocking a pregnancy. Some just get unlucky, or lucky, depending upon the eye of the beholder.

Personally I fear getting a severely mentaly disabled child. I know the responsibilites that I will have for the rest of my life. I am not one to run away from responsibility so I see what may be. On the other hand, there is no guarantee a “normal” child won’t turn out a complete hellraiser. Atleast the odds are in your favour though.

Before anyone sees me as a complete darwinist here, I’m not. I just feel that as long as you have the option of avoiding sentance to eternal high-maintainance parenthood I’m all for using it. (Sadly one of the few genetic disorders they do let us check for is downs-syndrome, wich isn’t that bad at all compared to what else there is).

I think the whole debate boils down to the definining when life begin.
If there is no life, then you are simply removing a cancerous and parasitical growth.
You might say you are removing potential, and this may be true, be it potential for good and evil alike.

If i was goingg going to have some sort of octopus baby, (8 limbs, etc.) then i’d abort.

So what about the morning after pill then? Does that count as contraception or abortion?

The adoption is better than abortion argument is severly flawed on account of the huge number of children worldwide who are in care. I’m not saying adoption isn’t a good idea in a lot of cases but its not always a viable alternative to abortion.

What about the potential for the mother to harm the child? By not allowing a woman to have an abortion when she needs one you are increasing the chances of her harming or neglecting the child once it is born (note though im saying needs not wants and increasing not ‘will definitely’).

As for severely handicapped children, its the same debate as to when to pull the plug on someone. How handicapped does the child need to be? If they will never be able to interact with the world then what do you do?

I know this isnt entirely about the legal aspects but another danger of not allowing abortion (in the sense of making it illegal) is the huge number of backstreet and home abortions that will occur. As these are not done under proper medical supervision they often end up harming the mother or resulting in not aborting the foetus but just harming it. If a woman is that desperate to abort the child that she would do it in that manner then is it not better to let her do it legally and safely?

I saw someone mention i think about what the legal aspects were – a foetus is seen as viable at 22-24 weeks, at this point it can (can not will) survive with the aid of medical intervention outside the womb. Most countries use somewhere in the range of 22-24 weeks as the cut off point for the majority of abortions. Most countries also however allow abortion almost until the time of birth if the foetus is found to be severly handicapped. Most countries will also allow abortions at later stages if complications which would harm the mother arise.

bobo82 makes a good point here.

The morning after-pill is in best cases regarded as an emergency option.
Think they recommend maximum 1 per menstrual cycle. (I don’t quite remember the exact fact shere, since it’s been a long time since me and whomever I was with has needed one of these).

Well,what do you do if the severely handicapped boy/girl can indeed interact with the world?
It’s a tough question. People seem to forget that the in this debate there is also the lives of the potential parents to be taken into consideration. Having a severely handicapped child is a fulltime job with no pay til the end of your days. Sure, this child might bring you joy in ways a normal kid wouldn’t, but neither will it comfort you in your old age, give you grandchildren, etc.

As for bobo pointing out the legal question, nicely done. It’s a very good point.
Jesus, think of that weird kind of crime. “Underground abortion clinic”, selling “Black market abortion”.
Seems absurd, but not that long ago it was indeed an underground buisniss.

If i was goingg going to have some sort of octopus baby, (8 limbs, etc.) then i’d abort.

no way….. when I became a parent I was really hoping for one… instead mine came with only 4 limbs.

TXW: It’s good that you’re wanting to be better informed on a topic such as this. There are some people who hide in the gray areas and then there are those who go to the extremes and can be very passionate and forceful about their opinion. So, for wanting to be better informed, I applaud you.

Personally, I’m Pro-Abortion. I think it needs to be a legal option for women. I don’t think abortion should be used as another form of birth control, but it needs to be available. If it’s made illegal, girls/women are still going to get abortions, but they’ll be ‘back alley’ abortions. Done in poor conditions with no standards of quality and could likely die from secondary infections/side effects.

So, what does abortion mean? It’s ending/terminating a pregnancy. Usually done in the first trimester (the first three months). There are two types of abortion. There is a ‘Medical abortion’ and there is a ‘Surgical abortion’.

What is a ‘Medical abortion’? The woman is given two pills. The first is a hormone pill. It blocks progesterone and thins the uterine lining. The second, given a few days later, is used to induce ‘labor’. It causes the uterus to contract and empty. The side effects? Severe menstrual-type cramps and pains; diarrhea; upset stomach. Oh yes, and light bleeding/spotting can and may continue for several weeks after a Medical Abortion.

What is a ‘Surgical abortion’? There are two types. MVA [manual vacuum aspiration] and D&C [dilatation and suction curettage]. Both types use a vacuum extraction method to empty the womb. I’ve asked several doctors how these types of procedures are done. I’ve gotten varying answers. However, the one that horrified me the most was the one doctor who told me ’You’d be put under a general anesthetic and we’d inject a poison into the forming water sack that ‘it’ is growing in and ‘it’ would be liquefied and then be able to be vacuumed out.’

You’ll notice most articles use ‘womb’ rather than ‘uterus’ for the surgical abortions. The reason being is that medical abortions are done fairly early, while the ‘baby’ still looks like a tadpole. Surgical abortions can be done later. Towards the end of the first trimester and into the second trimester. By that time, it no longer looks like a tadpole. It has become developed. If you look up the definition of ‘womb’ and ‘uterus’, they are the same thing. However, the womb is where something grows and develops. The uterus is just a muscle that is also a womb. I don’t know if that makes much sense, but that’s the distinction.

Now, reasons for wanting/getting an abortion. What if the woman is told that her tests came back and there’s a chance her child could be born with DS? Should she abort because she doesn’t think she can handle a child with DS? It’s an option, yes. However, these tests are not 100% accurate. There ARE false-positives. Meaning, the test could come back with high levels of hormones which could mean the child is growing and developing with the DS chromosomes. HOWEVER, the high levels of hormones could also mean that the woman was pregnant with twins but one died (naturally) and the other twin is just getting the larger doses of hormones that the mothers body is making which is supposed to be for two babies. These are just examples. True and not made up, but just examples. There are other reasons for false-positives and/or false-negatives. A woman could be tested and her tests could come back 100% a-OK and her baby could be born with DS or MS or any number of things.

You mentioned rape. Rape is the main reason I’m pro-abortion. It needs to be an option for those women who don’t think they could cope looking at that baby and internally re-living what she went through every day for the rest of her life. I was raped. When I was 22. I did become pregnant. I didn’t know about ‘the morning after pill’ and the hospital never mentioned it as an option to me. I probably would have taken it. I considered abortion. Every day, several times a day. I asked what was involved with an abortion. Would I ever be able to have children after an abortion. How long would I be on bed-rest and not be able to work. I asked and kept asking questions and none of the answers ever seemed to make me feel like it was the right decision.

I considered adoption as an option, but then the thought struck me. What if the child finds out he/she was adopted and wants to try to find me when he/she turns 18? How am I going to explain? Would it hurt him/her more to know that they were unwanted because they were a product of rape? Would they internalize that and possibly ruin their lives? Yes, I thought of all kinds of extremes and finally decided adoption wasn’t an option for me.

I kept the baby. She’s now five years old. Out of three children. She’s my only girl. Strange how that works out, huh? If I’d have aborted her, I wouldn’t have a daughter. It makes me all the more glad, every day, that I didn’t. I don’t know what I’d do without my daughter.

So, while I’m pro-abortion. I think it should be used for select cases/purposes. Not as an alternative to birth control. I hate when I hear about women who sleep around with every guy they come across and then rush to the abortion clinic a few times a year. That’s irresponsible. They should be looking into long-term semi-permanent sterilization. IUD’s or something similar.

Wow – thanks for the thorough, detailed, and very personal post MsPsychotic. In general, I tend to agree with everything you said. I am clearly pro-choice in the cases of rape and danger to the mother. I’m a bit more iffy when it comes to any other reasons (if you can’t afford a child, is it crueler to have the child?), but to me (as has been said Nithos and probably others), the main question is “when does the fetus become a person”. That’s the line that must be decided, and anything before that point should be allowed and anything after not. How we decide that of course is a very difficult question.

bobo: The adoption is better than abortion argument is severly flawed on account of the huge number of children worldwide who are in care. I’m not saying adoption isn’t a good idea in a lot of cases but its not always a viable alternative to abortion.

I actually think you’re slightly mistaken here. I think the children you’re referring to tend to be old children. In generall, I believe it is quite easy to get a baby child adopted, at least in the US. Couples are looking for infants all the time – it’s much harder to convince them to take a kid that’s a few years old…

Amazing post Mspsychotic and im glad that your story had the happy ending of your daughter being in your life. Can i ask a personal question which is purely out of curiosity – will you tell your daughter the circumstances of her conception? (sorry if that’s too personal then just ignore me).

Phoenix – No I fully agree that it’s fairly easy to do in the US however its not in a lot of countries. Also i was looking at it in part from the other side, there are so many children already in care and in orphanages so is bringing another unwanted child into the world a good thing as it means one less place for those already in care. (that’s worded kinda badly but hopefully you get what i mean!)

bobo82: I don’t mind the question. As a short answer, I’ll simply say no.

As a long answer:
At the time, I was dating someone for nearly a year. When I told him, he was alright about everything. By the time I was 5 months pregnant, he decided he didn’t want to be ‘part of it all’. So he bailed out of my life with a quickness. By the time my daughter was two weeks old, that same guy came back. He had changed his mind. We went through the process of a ‘Step-parent adoption’ when were married. She was two years old at that time. Her birth records were sealed. Her original birth record stated “No Father” and nothing more, but once she was adopted her birth record was altered to name my husband as “Father” and legally change her last name.

If at some point in time she finds out that she has sealed birth records and wants to know why. I’ll tell her. I won’t keep the knowledge from her, but I won’t come forth with it for no reason.

So what will you do about inherited traits and family history at the doctors? Do the doctors know your husband is not the biological father?

(please dont take this as me qeustioning your actions, im not in the slightest. I work for a childrens mental health charity but it’s rare that i come across a parent who is willing to answer these kinds of questions so im kinda grabbing the opportunity – and again just tell me to shut up if you dont want to answer!)