The Laddy Theory (locked)

The Laddy Theory is that girls and guys can’t be friends unless,

A) He’s Gay

B) Doesn’t find her attractive in even the slightest way

The theory says that because all guys think about sex a lot and basically would have sex with any girl, if there is any slight chance he could have sex with his girl friend, he would take it, thus they aren’t truly friends.

If a girl walks out naked and says lets have sex, would he say no because he doesn’t want to ruin there friendship, or would he do it.

As long as there remains even the slightest chance of a girl sleeping with him, it will stay on his mind, hence she will never be truly just a friend.

Anyways thats the jist of it, I myself can’t decide to believe it. It makes some good points. Theres also more points to it if you wanna go do some research.

The Laddy Theory, Discuss

I’m stuck trying to see how finding your friends attractive stops them being friends, or having 1 off sex for that matter. Honestly I almost never fantasise about my friends. /guy

His outlook is an interesting one, but it is just a matter of perspective. Or rather, semantics. He basically describes friends as people you would never want to have sex with, which isn’t ACTUALLY in the definition of friends. True, he makes a good point with the ladder theory, but the base idea you can’t be friends with somebody is a matter of semantics and not anything you can prove (especially because he probably just polled his friends for his research, but I don’t fully know so meh).

Well he takes it to the very word, if you have sex you become more than just friends. So you are now not ONLY friends. You are friends plus more.

Not in the actual definition of friends. Just because he defines it differently (and in his definition, it doesn’t work) doesn’t mean you literally couldn’t be friends by definition.

I think Mils nailed it – his basic axiom of “Friend” and “Sexual Attraction” as mutually exclusive isn’t valid, and thus you can’t develop any sort of argument from it. And for the record, A) is redundant. All you need is “Doesn’t find her attractive”. Though what about ex’s? I’m friends with all of my ex’s. Clearly I found them attractive at one point, and they haven’t exactly changed much since then. And having sex or a fling with a friend actually won’t necessarily ruin a friendship either (though you do have to be careful of it). Chris Rock had a very funny bit about this (warning: lots of swearing, R-rated), but I never thought anyone would make a serious argument on the subject.

I don’t believe in it. Stereotyping all male-female relationships is fairly stupid, as are a lot of absolute stereotypes.

The whole idea corrupts the idea of being close to family members. If you can avoid be a disgusting pig and by not wanting to sleep with your own sisters or mother, then you have the potential to treat other females the same way. I have 5 sisters in fact, so I know how to act brotherly towards my female friends without the slightest sexual intention.

For me that means you’re friends who’ve once had sex. Certainly a 1 night stand doesn’t make you boyfriend and girlfriend so I’d hardly call them exes.

So as far as I can make out, he’s writing his own definition of ‘friend’ to include that that they must have zero sexual appeal to you… and then argueing that therefore straight men therefore cannot be ‘friends’ (by his definition) with girls they’re attracted to! Uh, circular reasoning much? (afterthought disclaimer:I really haven’t delved into the site)

edit:just looked at ‘common criticisms’… I’m now convinced this is total garbage without a leg to stand on. http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

I’ve had plenty of female friends I wouldn’t want to sleep with, and not because they’re unattractive, and not just because I was in a relationship. I think the bigger reason here is that I lack the ability to truly embrace fantasy; I tend to imagine things how they’d really be — awkward beyond all else.

It is very much circular reasoning. It actually reminds me of flaming Christians on many subjects: It is wrong in God’s eyes because God said so!

For me that means you’re friends who’ve once had sex. Certainly a 1 night stand doesn’t make you boyfriend and girlfriend so I’d hardly call them exes.

Psst – I wasn’t referring to the fling as an ex. I’m friends with real ex’s too, including one girl I dated for 6 years. So :-P.

Reading more of that page, I find most of it absolute garbage.

It’s his perspective, based on his experiences. These experiences completely contradict the behavior of the crowd I personally choose to be around.

Wow, do we have a Serious Discussion topic with complete agreement from the peanut gallery?? Impressive! :-) (though sadly boring too…)

I think the bigger reason here is that I lack the ability to truly embrace fantasy; I tend to imagine things how they’d really be—awkward beyond all else.

Awww, that*’s* sad and funny at the same time. :) (EDIT: Thanks for pointing it out, mils…:-P)

Looking above, we can see the rare Phoenix grammatical error combined with the somewhat common Phoenix joking around.

You forgot the “’s”. :-P

And yay for complete agreement. It is totally boring, but I can’t type my foot in my mouth in this topic, at least.

Since we are not arguing, we must all be gay and sexually attracted to each other. Or is it the other way around…

You know, contrary to my persona in this forum, I do actually have a sense of humor in real life. I just hide it well here. :-P

Nah, your humor comes out in the forums a lot. Now when you chew me out in whispers, you don’t hide it. Kind of like I do whenever I get into an argument that actually leads to said whispers. :l

Also, I have no sense of humor in RL, or at least I don’t ever think of anything funny. The internet is where I do best with people, which may or may not be pathetic.

Wow, do we have a Serious Discussion topic with complete agreement from the peanut gallery?? Impressive! :-) (though sadly boring too…)

Dammit, I was leaning more towards this side too and was hoping you guys would agree with it and argue back. Hmm. I guess one way at this point to argue it is game players on a kids gaming site haven’t really had that much experiance with girls :P but I know thats not the case.

Stereotyping all male-female relationships is fairly stupid

It is, but following a general guide for the majority isn’t.

Chris Rock had a very funny bit about this (warning: lots of swearing, R-rated), but I never thought anyone would make a serious argument on the subject.

That was hilarious and probably pretty much true.

Wait: You disagree with the ladder theory (from what I can tell), but you agree with Chris?

I have female friends that I find sexually attractive. Doesn’t mean they aren’t my friends. I think the point has probably been made before.

A & B are kinda redundant…

Mils, you don’t hve to agree with a comedian’s veiw to find it funny, and the best jokes have some truth in them.

Well I understand the theory to an extent, but I don’t agree with it.

It’s already been said, but there are different levels of friendship. Strictly friends, friends with benefits, friends with fantasy, etc. I call my husband my best friend…
Just because you have MORE than a friendship doesn’t take away the fact that you are still friends. This obviously is along the lines already discussed, when you are looking at the definition of a friendship. Sex and attraction do not take away friendship.

Now the theory that all men think about sex, not sure about that, as I’m not a guy. From the female perspective though, I have had many instances where this was true. I have always had more guy friends than girl friends. I am used to being the only girl hanging out with a group of guys, dating back to early high school. In my eyes, it was only friendship, drinking beer, playing video games, hanging out, whatever.
I have had too many instances where more was wanted out of the relationship than I thought. My first instance was back when I was 16, the guy I was dating had a best friend, the 3 of us were always together. He became one of my best friends as well, someone I would talk to constantly. I dated this guy for 2 years so we were really close. Turns out this guy, felt more for me than I ever intended. We were all able to work through it, but it was hard to look at him the same. During this time another guy friend of mine, who was seriously like my brother, no attraction at all from me, was dating my best girlfriend. They broke up after about 3 years and he told me was in love with me and thought about me all the time while they were dating.
SIGH Aaaand just recently, a guy friend of mine who I have known since I was 13 (I’m 26) told me the same thing.
Now who knows, there may be more who just haven’t said anything, but seriously, this is rough stuff for a girl to take in.

Then there’s my husband, we met as friends to start a band. Got to know eachother, became super close, fell in love.

Now why do they feel this way? I highly doubt it’s just because I’m a girl.
I firmly believe that the person you fall in love with should also be your best friend. If you are around someone often enough, see them everyday, know everything about them, confide in them, have fun and laugh with them, what makes that different than actual dating, after all, you most likely already love that person. I guess then we can get into the definitions of being in love with someone and just loving someone. The only thing really missing from an amazing friendship is sex. I would say majority of my guy friends growing up I was very attracted to, but it didn’t take away at all from the friendship we had.
So of all the male friends I have had, I know of 4 that wanted more from me, including my husband.

I think Chris Rock had a standup routine once where he described male/female relationships as the guy having his “friend” in glass. “Break in case of emergency”.
Again, I’m a chick, so what do I know? There’s my tangent on the topic.

>Mils, you don’t hve to agree with a comedian’s veiw to find it funny, and the best jokes have some truth in them.

He said it was funny and

>pretty much true

I kind of think that means that he thought it was true.

Wait: You disagree with the ladder theory (from what I can tell), but you agree with Chris?

I said I was leaning towards that side mainly, some facts line up on one side and facts line up on the other side as well. I didn’t say I agree with any of them 100%, I just more am on the laddy theory being false. I like the point chris makes about the guy in a glass.