Theories of creation can never be right.

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Yeah I know peole have their “Religious” and thier “Scientific” theories on the creation of life and the universe, but if you think about it both are hard to fully believe.

If I had to choose one I would pick the scientific theory, but whats after that? It says that the universe was created from a big bang, some concentration of volume that was then released into some dust of a couple basic elements?

You have to ask, where did mass and volume get created? Where did even NOTHING get created? i know its like WTF right?

How did anything happen? It seems to impossible to grasp any of it through our own human minds..but even for any mind, how? There is something for any race to think about, even the MOST advanced races, and for everyone there is something that they cant understand how it got there.

How did “something” get created? How did “nothing” get created?

And about my choice of what I would choose on the theories, religion only teaches to the point that “God” or “Love” created everything, but this theory does not go as far into the beggining of anything, science theories go a bit farther, but not far anough.

So fuck god and fuck the big bang, damn we will never know.

 
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It is pretty hard to dispute whether who is right or wrong because we weren’t “here” when all of it started and besides, religions are based on faith not scientific logic.

Of course some of the most obvious questions I tend to ask creationists are…

If god created us and the universe, could god not also created aliens? Why not?

How was god created? Did god just pop out of nowhere out of a sudden?

If there is only one Adam and one Eve, what happened to their children? Did all of them in-bred and populate the world?

How could two Caucasians (or any race, for that matter) produce that many race? Was it mutation?

If you accept the fact about mutation, could you not accept the theory of evolution?

I am not here to rebuke any religious teachings but I think there are a lot of answers out there that needs to be sought after other than reading the holy scriptures.

 
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Asking what happened before the big bang is fundamentally equal to asking what is north of the north pole. The original force that birthed the fabric of our universe don’t have a beginning because they crafted time itself. Furthermore, our linear, time-constructed mind sees things as inevitable starts and ends.

A black hole draws things out to singularity, in that going into a black hole you constantly go slower and never reach the “end” of it. The same can be said about the “beginning” of our universe. The closer you get to the beginning, the less time actually exists.

 
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Wow, that is deeper than my skull would hold. I think I will just concentrate more on general knowledge until they figure a way to upgrade my brain.

 
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I can’t really fathom what happened at the beginning of time either.

Maybe there never was a beginning, and time and space have always existed, infinitely…

 
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I believe in the big bang theory, because it does make sense scientifically (quantum physics are extremely weird, though) . If you want a clear explanation, I suggest wikipedia. I also have another question for Paladin2K’s list:

How does the bible explain skeletons of dinosaurs?

I have asked this question to some ‘true christians’ and their answers varied from ’they’re fake’ to ‘God created them to test our faith’.

 
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I have asked this question to some ‘true christians’ and their answers varied from ’they’re fake’ to ‘God created them to test our faith’.

The one that I heard was man and dinosaur exist together in the same era or something. I find it hard to take that answer seriously because we have yet to discover human skeletons that is as old as dinosaurs’.

 
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i find it hard to take any of these answers seriously.

 
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bq. If god created us and the universe, could god not also created aliens? Why not? I like how you assume the answer is no - it's not. Of course God could create aliens. He simply chose not to. WHy? I don't know. I'm not God! bq. How was god created? Did god just pop out of nowhere out of a sudden? God was always there, and He always will be. Like TLO said, it's so hard for our minds to grasp, no matter what course we take. bq. If there is only one Adam and one Eve, what happened to their children? Did all of them in-bred and populate the world? In short, yes. Since they were the first children on earth, they had no worries about things like dwarfism, or other genetical mutations. bq. How could two Caucasians (or any race, for that matter) produce that many race? Was it mutation? When the Tower of Babel fell, the people scattered. They may have been of one race then. They scattered all over the Earth, adapting to their individual climates. bq. If you accept the fact about mutation, could you not accept the theory of evolution? When we go out on a hot summer day and our skin turns bronze, is it mutation? Is it evolution? No! It's simply an adaptation caused by the sun's UV rays. These people _adapted_ to their locations. African-Americans adapted to their home near the equator by having a dark skin color, so that the sun will not affect them as much. Countries like Japan, China, and India have a great intensity of light. As we all know, we usually adjust the shape of our eyes (squinting) to adjust our vision appropriately. The Asians have just adapted to this. bq. How does the bible explain skeletons of dinosaurs? It does not mention them. But nor does it mention hamsters, cats, or hippos. Does that mean that dinosaurs didn't exist? No, I don't believe it does. I'm not a dinosaur-ologist, but I believe they may have existed, and then either become extinct before the flood, or afterwards. ---------------------------------------------------------- The remarks above are my _sole_ opinion, I have done very little research to these questions, and I'm sure that iI will come across questions in the future and make me scratch my head in wonder.
 
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The word you were looking for is “paleontologist”. And while the Bible doesn’t mention them, it does say man was created at the same time as beasts, which is clearly false as we can tell from all of the fossil records of beasts existed thousands and thousands of years before man.

 
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Asking what happened before the big bang is fundamentally equal to asking what is north of the north pole. The original force that birthed the fabric of our universe don’t have a beginning because they crafted time itself. Furthermore, our linear, time-constructed mind sees things as inevitable starts and ends.

This is just as silly as Eve being made from the rib of Man. My conceptions about this issue are way beyond our scientific technology so this is just speculation.. I think that our universe is just one of many and just a speck of dust in some higher dimension or like a little neuron in a brain.

 
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It’s the same with a religious person arguing about the exsistence of God.

Why can’t you except that the mass was always there, and the dust?

The smae argument is for religous people. before the big bang theory. The idea was that the universe was a) eternal or b) created

Just because the universe was created does not mean that God could not be eternal and the same for anything else before the universe.

It’s hard for our minds to grasp. But everything doesn’t have to be created.

Thats my 2 cents.

This is just as silly as Eve being made from the rib of Man. My conceptions about this issue are way beyond our scientific technology so this is just speculation.. I think that our universe is just one of many and just a speck of dust in some higher dimension or like a little neuron in a brain.

I also beleive in the multi-verse. I think it’s a good way of ensuring that life happened, even if in one of the universe no planets develloped, they would have other universes to help. Why have only one?

 
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I think that our universe is just one of many and just a speck of dust in some higher dimension or like a little neuron in a brain.

Ok, now, I agree that the universe/time not existing before the big bang is almost as crazy as Eve being made from a rib. But uh…how is this any less crazy? It seems the OP has a point – these all seem pretty insane.

 
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we can tell from all of the fossil records of beasts existed thousands and thousands of years before man.

Question. How do you know that? Since Carbon 14 dating can only reach into the thousands, I’d be curious as to how you “know” that.

 
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bq.God was always there, and He always will be. Like TLO said, it’s so hard for our minds to grasp, no matter what course we take.

This is one thing I hate about religion, you deal with flaws by saying that we can’t comprehend what god does.

 
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When we go out on a hot summer day and our skin turns bronze, is it mutation? Is it evolution? No! It’s simply an adaptation caused by the sun’s UV rays. These people adapted to their locations. African-Americans adapted to their home near the equator by having a dark skin color, so that the sun will not affect them as much. Countries like Japan, China, and India have a great intensity of light. As we all know, we usually adjust the shape of our eyes (squinting) to adjust our vision appropriately. The Asians have just adapted to this.

sorry, but this is utter nonsense. black babies are black at birth, they do not turn black in the sun. it’s a permanent, inherited difference, which has to be brought about by genetic information, and a change in genetic information is, well… a mutation. and adapting to environmental circumstances by means of favorable mutations is, well, the e-word.

you were basically saying “it’s not evolution, it’s gradual adaption to the environment”… i’m not atheist, i’m just convinced there is no god.

 
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This link is a rather in-depth analysis of how fossil records disprove the Creation story. Carbon dating works roughly up to 60,000 years, well before the 6,000 years old the Bible claims the earth is. Additionally, we can look at the layers in which bones were buried (well below where man has ever been) or even the sheer number of fossils as clear evidence that the Creation story is in no way a literal story.

Noru – it should be noted that Christians don’t reject the notion of “micro-evolution”. That is, they accept changes within small tolerance levels, but refuse, for example, that anything has ever evolved across species.

 
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The difference between eves rib and time not existing before the big bang is that one is mathematically proven, and the other is a story stolen from another religion.

 
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Well, that would certainly disprove the theory of Earth being created in 6 literal days, but what about the theory that they were just metaphorical? God says that with him, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day. Heck, the Earth could be tens of thousands of years old.

The difference between eves rib and time not existing before the big bang is that one is mathematically proven, and the other is a story stolen from another religion.

Actually, no. How is the Bible stolen from another “religion”?

 
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bq. (...) These people adapted to their locations. (...) There is a clear genetical difference between black people and white people. When white people go out in the sun their skin will *adapt* and they will produce more melanine, but if you'd leave them outside in a sunny enviroment all the time the people that are born with a slightly darker skin will have a greater chance to survive, and after thousands of years you will have a darker variation of people. This is called *mutation*. (I don't know if this actually happened in reality, more the other way around). *EDIT:* I wrote this before Phoenix00017's post. I didn't know Christians don't reject the notion of micro-evolution. But I wonder: If micro-evolution is possible, why wouldn't it happen on a larger scale? bq. The bible doesn't mention dinosaurs. But nor does it mention hamsters, cats, or hippos. Does that mean that dinosaurs didn’t exist? No, I don’t believe it does. I’m not a dinosaur-ologist, but I believe they may have existed, and then either become extinct before the flood, or afterwards. I believe we would have read _something_ in the bible about mammoths, cave lions, enormous insects, brontosaurs, tyrannosaurs, triceratops, ankylosaurs, brachiosaurs, and what have you. Especially if they lived here all at the same time. !http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Longest_dinosaurs1.png/800px-Longest_dinosaurs1.png! And Jesus said: 'Have no fear, they only eat giant ferns' 'What giant ferns?' 'You know, the 15-feet tall ones that are so common around here. -------------------------- Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_size http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/481166/Psaronius
 
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Phoenix: it should also be noted that the passage i quoted is preposterously misguided.

i know even IDiots consider microevolution ok, but she specifically said it is not evolution, but gradual adaption, when it’s basically the same thing.

[Edit] What Searth said.

 
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It’s the same with a religious person arguing about the exsistence of God.

Why can’t you except that the mass was always there, and the dust?

The smae argument is for religous people. before the big bang theory. The idea was that the universe was a) eternal or b) created

Just because the universe was created does not mean that God could not be eternal and the same for anything else before the universe.

It’s hard for our minds to grasp. But everything doesn’t have to be created.

Thats my 2 cents.

I think that our universe is just one of many and just a speck of dust in some higher dimension or like a little neuron in a brain.

I also beleive in the multi-verse. I think it’s a good way of ensuring that life happened, even if in one of the universe no planets develloped, they would have other universes to help. Why have only one?

How come no one argued against by post. :(

 
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But uh…how is this any less crazy?

Well, we are again in the realm where neither side can prove anything so this is just based on my personal experience and what I will claim to be knowledge gleaned from my contact with (a very non-Christian) “god”. I really really want people here to actually take the time to learn about some things they don’t agree with so we can discuss certain topics, but I just see so much stubbornness.

 
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The bible is a gross plagiarism of Inuma Ilish (The story of Gilgamesh), the Egyptian God Horus, the rituals and symbolism of Pagan beliefs, and many Buddhist and Hindu characteristics. It is important to make the distinction however: If there was a fantastic event at the beginning of known history, everyone would have a different version of the story. My point is that the story has no mathematical, scientific, or logical basis, where the big bang does.

 
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It is pretty hard to dispute whether who is right or wrong because we weren’t “here” when all of it started and besides, religions are based on faith not scientific logic.

I think I pretty much sums it up in my first post here.

When there is a conflict of views between science and religion, things often turn out to be rather ugly. This is the same with all the boards that I have been to.