Is suicide just as bad as murder?

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I read something the other day, and thought it was interesting.
Mormons believe, (or at least they did at one point) that there are layers to hell. and like the only thing lower then murder was the devil and his angels.
The only thing was, that with the murderers, was the people that had committed suicide. The reason for this was, that because when someone killed someone else the crime was not against the guy he killed, because he couldn’t care, he was dead. The crime was against the family and friends.
So when you killed yourself how much it hurt your family or friends is just as if someone had murdered you, so you were put with the murderers.
Does this make sense?

 
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It is & it isn’t…..it just depends.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

It is & it isn’t…..it just depends.

on?

 
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Originally posted by DaigoSolo:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

It is & it isn’t…..it just depends.

on?

Thousands upon thousands of “things”.

One of those being: Are ya talking “regligion” here,,,,or is it “morals”?

 
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It doesn’t even begin to make sense.

If we look at this statement “The reason for this was, that because when someone killed someone else the crime was not against the guy he killed, because he couldn’t care, he was dead. The crime was against the family and friends”, we can infer that if we kill someone who has no family or friends, then it’s not a crime, or at least it’s not a crime in the eyes of the mormon god.

In common with much of what mormons believe, it’s utterly preposterous.

 
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I think it would depend on the murder and the level of premeditation.

If you plan the murder then you consider the affect it would have on the targets loved ones and simply don’t care, much like going through with suicide.
If the murder was (true) self defence then I think it is excusable, and if it was in blind rage then (hopefully) the murderer would have a life of regret as punishment, though sadly many people don’t seem to possess a conscience

Edit, the above post also raises a very good point ^^

 
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I would say, that we cannot actually say that without deniyng the right of someone to his own life. And, if we deny the right of others to their own lives, wee are therefore deniyng our right to our own lifes, and therefore saiyng we believe anyone has the right to kill us. AS I am sure we dont think that way, we should probably assume that to do not be true.

Overral, I would say, unless the suicide has the actual intend to cause harm to others, it isnt as bad as murder. And typically, unless A: The victin desires to die, or B: The murderer is completely insane, murder ALWAYS has the intent of causing harm, so…

 
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If you look at suicide from a religious point of view, suicide is up there with the sins that will get you into hell. Thou Shalt Not Kill is one of the 10 Commandments.

 
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Simple. Suicide is murder of self, no? And for the grief it causes to the family left behind, it’s really kind of selfish too.

 
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I agree wholeheartedly.

 
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Ok, let me try this again Twilight. I agree with your last post. It is murder.

 
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LOL! What happened to the first post? Did your mouth get carried away again? :-D

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:

LOL! What happened to the first post? Did your mouth get carried away again? :-D

No, actually I just said I agreed with your post. They have a program that sometimes runs wild and deletes posts indiscriminately. I guess it got me….again.

 
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I don’t see suicide as morally wrong. It is not my place to decide what another person does with their body except so far as it physically harms unwilling others. The right to swing your fist ends where the other person’s nose begins and suicide is not automatically punching another in the nose. It just depends on how it’s done.

As far as emotional pain of the friends and family goes that’s a very slippery slope to start treading on. If it is to be tread on then what about the emotional pain of the person who committed suicide? I think it’s pretty selfish to look down on someone for committing suicide. They were suffering so much that they decided to end their own life but they’re supposed to endure this massive pain so that other people don’t get sad. If a person cared about the deceased they wouldn’t want the deceased to suffer so much for their happiness.

I don’t know about anyone else, but if someone I genuinely cared about died by any cause I wouldn’t really be interested in tossing accusations at them. I would be more interested in remembering the good times and the bad times and hoping that if there is any peace and happiness after death that they have found it. I had the time I had with them, fly free my friend.

 
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Who’s going to reprimand someone who took their own life? They’re obviously not gonna be sticking around to face the consequences..

I think it truly takes balls and a total fearlessness to willingly terminate one’s own life – That individual is acting against their innate desires of survival.

 
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“Murder” is a human concept. It is the illegal taking of a person’s life. Suicide may or may not fall under this, depending on the country’s laws. I believe some countries find it illegal to commit suicide, and as such it is murder in such countries. But basing it on that is such a trivial action.

I believe the reason many religious people think suicide is just as bad as taking another man’s life (in many situations, not all), because it is an act against God (not against the family of the killed person). You take the life he supposedly created, without waiting for him to take you there in a “natural” way. I’m not justifying this belief, or saying I truly believe that suicide is just as bad, but that’s what many would think.

So, personally, no, suicide is not as bad as murder. You are unwilling to live on and therefore willing to die. You are still hurting your family and friends, but you yourself at least agree with it. When you kill someone else, that person is negatively affected along with family and friends. With suicide, it’s even possible the family and friends know of it and agree it’s for the best (think of a person with a very bad disease). Could even be assisted suicide.

 
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Suicide might not be as bad as murder morally, but its still morally bad. Some kids especially those in your community might took it personally who knew what they would do when things were hard for them.
Religiously yes it is as bad as murder, but in Christianity hatred is also as bad of a sin as murder.

 
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Personally, I believe murder is alot worse than suicide.

You can debate all you want on how selfish or wrong suicide is but Klatoo gave quiet a good summary of it:

As far as emotional pain of the friends and family goes that’s a very slippery slope to start treading on. If it is to be tread on then what about the emotional pain of the person who committed suicide? I think it’s pretty selfish to look down on someone for committing suicide. They were suffering so much that they decided to end their own life but they’re supposed to endure this massive pain so that other people don’t get sad. If a person cared about the deceased they wouldn’t want the deceased to suffer so much for their happiness.
I don’t know about anyone else, but if someone I genuinely cared about died by any cause I wouldn’t really be interested in tossing accusations at them. I would be more interested in remembering the good times and the bad times and hoping that if there is any peace and happiness after death that they have found it. I had the time I had with them, fly free my friend.

Someone who commits suicide obviously had a lot of problems. Yes, when someone close to you takes their own life, you feel it was very selfish of them but I don’t think they did it to cause friends and family pain. If that was the sole purpose of it all, then its worse than murder in my eyes. Realistically, I can’t see that happening.

If they wanted to end their own. All we can do is hope they are in a better place without suffering. Or if your like me, believe the pain is gone as you become nothing more than daisy fertilizer. (Horrible, I know!)

Just my view on the subject after losing my friends John Jon Chris and Leon

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

If you look at suicide from a religious point of view, suicide is up there with the sins that will get you into hell. Thou Shalt Not Kill is one of the 10 Commandments.

Though if you remember who comes after Moses, you’ll remember Joshua. That’s where all the going into towns and killing every last person there comes into play, but now it’s not a sin because God commanded it. On top of that the punishment for many of the other sins was death. Then you have Jesus who says that it’s okay to work on the Sabbath, that when the woman is caught committing adultery that the one without sin should cast the first stone… If you think the Bible is clear and straight forward, you need to read the thing again, and this goes as much for Christians as it goes for Atheists or people criticizing it. For ever passage that you can find that says “don’t do this or God will be royally pissed off” you can find another passage that says “It’s okay to do that now” or maybe not that, but what about the passage that we are saved by grace and not by good works? I mean if you go by that passage then God is willing to forgive anything. Other passages and God seems like a controlling asshole who will throw you in hell given any opportunity. And then Jesus… he died for our sins, and the whole thing goes a lot like the sacrificial lambs they had previously where you kill the lamb for a sin and then you are free of that sin… which is also something God instructed. So this also points more to that God is willing to forgive anything.

If you think you understand the Bible, that’s a sign you don’t get it. There’s so much complexity to it and it’s not the least bit straight forward. This goes for all the Christians who have the arrogance to claim that they know what all God wants, and it goes for all the Atheists who have stupidity to assume that they can point to one dumb passage in the Bible and have the whole thing written off as ridiculous. If you think the Bible is straight forward you did a poor job reading it.

 
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In general: I find religious proscriptions against suicide a backhanded way of saying “God(s) own(s) you.” Punishing someone in an afterlife for killing themselves is unjust as 1) gods typically do not take soundness of mind into account (gods that I know of, I mean) and 2) it is the willful infliction of suffering upon another seeking to end it. (Yahwists [Jews/Christians/Muslims], kindly refrain from using “free will” arguments in this matter)

Stilton: I’ve read half a dozen translations of the bible, and I still don’t understand how anybody can make sense of it without deluding themselves in some way. I agree that using a single passage to prove anything either way is poor show. The chief ridiculousness I find in the bible, though, is that it requires interpretation to make any sense at all.

 
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No, it isn’t. It’s your decision to take your own life, but that doesn’t give you the right to take someone else’s. As far as for the family left behind, the grief that falls upon them is not sinister, but a rather unfortunate time that must be overcome just like every other challenge in life.

 
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It is if you are the cause of one’s suicide.

 
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Originally posted by uzzbuzz:

It is if you are the cause of one’s suicide.

What’s that supposed to mean?

 
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Originally posted by TheLoneLucas:
Originally posted by uzzbuzz:

It is if you are the cause of one’s suicide.

What’s that supposed to mean?

He means that it is as bad as murder if you cause someone to commit suicide (i.e. making someone suicidal through one way or another), though you could argue that that can be labeled as (wo)manslaughter.

 
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I think so. :/