Creation vs. Evolution page 21

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I assume both are equal

This is your problem. Both AREN’T equal. Seriously, the B option has a chance of perhaps one over a googolplex. (1/10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000)
Using your logic it is valid to think that the Earth is flat (maybe everything was manipulated and the horizon is merely an optical illusion, and going around the world with a plane works because at the borders of Earth there is a teleporter (etc.)), it is valid to think that the Sun is cold, it’s valid to think that the world was created to look old, it’s valid to think that the sun orbits around the Earth, it’s valid to think the Higgs Boson doesn’t exist, it’s valid to think everybody but you is actually a robot, it’s valid to think your neighbor is actually Hitler (who found the immortal fountain and made a few plastic surgeries), it’s valid to think toys talk with each other when we aren’t looking (and they have magical knowledge of whether there is a camera in the room), ANYTHING is OK.
In fact, it’s valid to think that your computer is going to explode as soon as you finish reading this. Are you scared now? Why don’t you run away? I’m going to make this post a little bit longer so you have chance to run away. Are you still there? Please tell me you’re not. Occam’s Razor is not valid, of course not. Oh wait, you are? Why? BOOM! Tee hee :DDD

 
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BB
Bye.
(If you can’t understand what time machine means, I can’t help you.)

thi
RULES weren’t added.
PRECEDENTS were.
Like in justice system, nobody is suddenly inventing or discarding capital punishment – it just gets more or less applied in specific situations, from 100% to 0%, but the concept itself never changes.
Similarly here too, the rules of UNDERSTANDING the text do not change, but their application to certain cases may vary in time.
But the MAIN reason for the general change in ACTION, is historical-political: the lack of the Temple in Jerusalem.
Otherwise, MANY things would as well apply, like they did 2000 years ago.
Judaism ISN’T adapting to the whims of history – it just absorbs them and rearranges accordingly. :DDD
(The difference being, that the rules don’t change, only application cases increase in number.)

 
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(If you can’t understand what time machine means, I can’t help you.)

I do. But you can’t understand that the fact that we weren’t there to see it doesn’t mean we can’t claim we know it’s true.
Example:

  • Me: Hey, the Sun is hot!
  • You: No. Have you measured its temperature with a thermostat?
  • Me: What? No, but holy shit how can you even doubt that [[then I proceed to make dozens of logical arguments]]
  • You: If you can’t understand what thermostat means, I can’t help you.

Looks pretty stupid, doesn’t it? Exactly.

 
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But why can’t it adapt the concept of evolution? If other concepts are added.

 
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thi
I kinda “adapted” it already, but on religious grounds.

BB
Actually, you example is semi-good.
To claim something is HOT, you need to measure its TEMPERATURE.
Thus, your LOGICAL arguments are of no value vs simple MEASURING.
And the lack of the latter won’t be replaced by a thousand logics. :D
Same regarding “what happen when we weren’t there”.
This is pretty scientific, cause only measurements are valid in claiming parameters of objects.
Even if it is time.
Whatever, I know you won’t listen…
Please, just leave me in my “delusion”. :DDD

 
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To claim something is HOT, you need to measure its TEMPERATURE.

And we did. We measured that here in Earth (so so far away from the Sun) it measures about 30ºC, for example. We’re so far away from the Sun, and yet it’s still that hot in here. We have a LOT of evidence that the Sun is hot, yet they could all be considered indirect evidence, because we haven’t actually been ON the Sun with a thermostat to measure it there. To claim all that evidence is not enough is stupid.
It’s exactly what you’re doing with Evolution.

 
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BB
Someone’s in the past of HIS delusions, right?
Cause I accepted the possibility of “evolutionary interface modding” LONG AGO (OK, maybe around a day ago, but post-wise…).
Yes, I didn’t become a science fanatic like YOU, but I stopped denying evolution (while NOT discarding creation and Genesis).
Only for YOU the very thought of someone not being an “evolution adept” is impossible to the extent of removing all politeness barriers…
Well, seemingly…

 
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Evolution. Creationist tend to be afraid of the unknown. Always asking atheist and agnostics “well what do YOU think started it all?” You don’t HAVE to know. I would rather be honest and say I don’t know and probably won’t ever know. The big bang might be true, it might not be. Creationism might be true, it might not be. I choose to accept that I don’t know and that’s that. No further questions please. I don’t understand why people praise something that they don’t know is true. Faith? You’re willing to put your life on the line because of your faith? When the time comes I bet most of you wouldn’t.

 
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I don’t care if you accepted it if you still make claims that it might not be valid because we don’t have a time machine.

 
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BB
Translation:
“No, I’m not a fanatic. I just can’t digest other opinions. Even if I know that I can’t know the right answer, like my opponent does…”

bob
Doesn’t apply to someone who wants to LIVE accordingly.
That’s where “agnosticism” is a lie.
You either live this way OR that way, can’t live NEITHER.

Off-topic:
FORMATTING SUCKS!

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

like my opponent does…

Uh, wtf?

 
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Bad English.
Meant, we both know we can’t know – but only I accept it.

 
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I just can’t digest other opinions.

I completely destroyed every single argument you made, and all you’ve done to counter is call me a fanatic or simply ignore everything. THIS is what shows much about who is fanatic here. I’m sorry! :DDD

 
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BB
You don’t have any arguments (let’s say it openly, you can’t have any, apart from your personal opinion and ORazor that is supposed to back it up somehow, though again based on your personal preferences) that would destroy my assumption that science is very accurate at explaining the interface (including evolution), but totally useless at explaining the programming (including creation).

 
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See you all tomorrow.
Night!

 
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My argument is that, if your assumption is valid (it’s not under Occam’s Razor – and that everybody agrees is extremely logical), then the assumption that the Sun is, in fact, cold – and that your neighbor is Hitler – are also completely valid.
I would say they are not, I would also think you are a complete retard for thinking so since you have ZERO evidence. Do you hear me? ZERO. ZERO. ZERO. ZERO. ZERO. ZERO. ZERO.
But yeah, sure, maybe that’s like, my opinion. Maybe it’s completely fine to assume I’m actually Jesus Christ on a mission to troll people into thinking I’m not really a deity.

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

Bad English.
Meant, we both know we can’t know – but only I accept it.

Excuse me?! You are the only one in here openly NOT accepting it.

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

OD
1. Even more – directly talking to that very million of witnesses. :D
And I can back it up by specific commentaries, few times older than modern science.
2. Simple (and you again showed how you don’t follow MY posts).
Already Adam had some specific info, he even wrote a religious book (I don’t remember details).
Abraham is clearly shown to celebrate passover, that would take place some 400 years later.
(Before Abraham, there was no Jews; before Sinai, no Jewish nation; but already Adam was “Biblically religious”.)
Commentaries explain it in an easy way – they already had the INFO, just not the DOCUMENT.
Cue “trailer”.
(Or rather prophesy.)

you still haven’t supported anything with any evidence. which is what you were supposedly doing. so you’re still accepting ridiculous claims about a deceptive God, an arbitrary line of 6000 years ago, of one particular lineage (i mean, why not the Christian take or Samaritan?, or Hindu for that matter?), while throwing out the evidence based solely on the afore-mentioned acceptence of this one particular mouth-to-mouth passing over of ancient ignorance.

and why was this story never told as including a deceptive God (only a vindictive one), and it only got assumed to be a deceptive one only to accomodate the evidence? see? you say that the story never changes, but you just changed the story just now, today, to include that God is deceptive like that.

 
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An example that should shut you up – or at least I’ll STOP trying to explain something to a wall:
You register for an on-line RPG game and create a new LVL-1 character.
Then you start roaming the virtual world.
Soon you see a bunch of other guys, around LVL-10.
You talk and they say that they have played for a week.
You run for a while and meet a new guy, LVL-999.
Now, your FIRST ASSUMPTION:
A. This guy have played for a year!
You start talking to him, and he says nonchalantly that he’s a newly appointed game master, and this character is only an hour old.
Your next possible assumptions:
B. He said the truth.
C. He lied, and your A is true.
D. He is no game master but a hacker, and this character is not even his.
Now, SCIENTIFICALLY, only valid assumptions are:
A – according to Occam’s Razor and the evidence that you can obviously see.
C – evidence prevails over subjective opinions.
Whereas:
B – you have no evidence for it, only his word.
D – you have no evidence for it, only your opinion.

NOW!

Tell me, is ANY of the above assumptions ANY “more probable” (or “improbable”) than ANY other?
You do know, that the answer is NO!
Well, probability-wise, of course not all four are equal – A and B are most COMMON, C is pretty probable, while D is the least likely.
But REALITY-wise, can you REALLY tell, WHICH case it is?
NO, NO and NO!
(Hint: No additional info available – you must decide on the above given situation.)

NOW!

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about for the entire yesterday!
Look:
A. We first assume that the world is billions of years old, cause it LOOKS like it.
B. G-d says to us, that He is this world’s “admin”, so it’s NOT how it LOOKS (but He tells the true state).
C. We ignore Him and keep to the scientific approach.
D. Neither version is true / We live under a Matrix solipsist illusion.

NOW!

I chose the B, while some of you keep choosing the C.
Is ANY of us RIGHT?
Who knows, maybe there is a D that nobody ever thought of…
But to INSIST on ANY option, is purely SUBJECTIVE CHOICE, the same way you CHOOSE, whether to BELIEVE the LVL-999 guy OR NOT.
Yes, you CHOOSE it, no other way around it.
(Remember, you’re in a virtual world, and this example is bound to it, like we’re bound to our world. And while IN any of these worlds, we can’t go around these four options – simply impossible.)

I do hope it made it at least a little tiny bit CLEARER
Cheers!

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

An example that should shut you up – or at least I’ll STOP trying to explain something to a wall:
You register for an on-line RPG game and create a new LVL-1 character.
Then you start roaming the virtual world.
Soon you see a bunch of other guys, around LVL-10.
You talk and they say that they have played for a week.
You run for a while and meet a new guy, LVL-999.
Now, your FIRST ASSUMPTION:
A. This guy have played for a year!
You start talking to him, and he says nonchalantly that he’s a newly appointed game master, and this character is only an hour old.
Your next possible assumptions:
B. He said the truth.
C. He lied, and your A is true.
D. He is no game master but a hacker, and this character is not even his.
Now, SCIENTIFICALLY, only valid assumptions are:
A – according to Occam’s Razor and the evidence that you can obviously see.
C – evidence prevails over subjective opinions.
Whereas:
B – you have no evidence for it, only his word.
D – you have no evidence for it, only your opinion.

NOW!

Tell me, is ANY of the above assumptions ANY “more probable” (or “improbable”) than ANY other?
You do know, that the answer is NO!
Well, probability-wise, of course not all four are equal – A and B are most COMMON, C is pretty probable, while D is the least likely.
But REALITY-wise, can you REALLY tell, WHICH case it is?
NO, NO and NO!
(Hint: No additional info available – you must decide on the above given situation.)

NOW!

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about for the entire yesterday!
Look:
A. We first assume that the world is billions of years old, cause it LOOKS like it.
B. G-d says to us, that He is this world’s “admin”, so it’s NOT how it LOOKS (but He tells the true state).
C. We ignore Him and keep to the scientific approach.
D. Neither version is true / We live under a Matrix solipsist illusion.

NOW!

I chose the B, while some of you keep choosing the C.
Is ANY of us RIGHT?
Who knows, maybe there is a D that nobody ever thought of…
But to INSIST on ANY option, is purely SUBJECTIVE CHOICE, the same way you CHOOSE, whether to BELIEVE the LVL-999 guy OR NOT.
Yes, you CHOOSE it, no other way around it.
(Remember, you’re in a virtual world, and this example is bound to it, like we’re bound to our world. And while IN any of these worlds, we can’t go around these four options – simply impossible.)

I do hope it made it at least a little tiny bit CLEARER
Cheers!

Fossils.
Your answer is invalid.

 
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FWW
Almost slipped to curse…
Are fossils NOT part of our WORLD?
Since when?

(I can extend my example to include “finished quests” or “gathered items” as fossils. Won’t change a bit, since we’re talking about admins and/or hackers.)

 
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Somebody, did you know that the Earth is actually flat? I’m not kidding you. The Earth is flat!

 
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FWW
Do you have anything to say about MY example – not YOUR ideas and insults?
(“This is stupid” is a NON-answer…)

 
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In your example you can ask him to show a gm power if he can’t do anything a gm can he obviously isn’t a gm. We can do the same with god to show he either doesn’t really care what we believe or that he isn’t there (or that he is a jerk).

 
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Originally posted by somebody613:

FWW
Do you have anything to say about MY example – not YOUR ideas and insults?
(“This is stupid” is a NON-answer…)

So you didn’t know that the earth is flat?
Well now you do!