Secession of States post Obama re-election

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Also known as The Presidential Thread, part deux, I came across the information that some states are seriously flirting with the idea of seceding from the union after this last election:


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57548572/states-petition-to-secede-from-union/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/12/states-petition-obama-administration-to-secede/


For instance, the White House will formally address this request if there are at least 25,000 signatures. Texas has already gotten them 22,000.

If the secession of some or all of these states occurs, what will be the impact? Would they become individual separate little countries beside each other? How would it change things (such as the budget) from what they currently are?

 
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Another civil war?

 
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You mean Jesusland?

 
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Originally posted by Immortal7777:

Another civil war?

Maybe. Although it was written in their petitions that they request to “peacefully grant the State of XXX to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own new government…”

 
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25,000 signatures is hardly representative of an entire state’s desires. The majority of people in those states do not want to secede. Trust me, I come from a non-American region wanting independence, and an online petition is not how it’s done.

It is hardly economically advantageous to these states. Especially if they are all intending to secede as individual countries, as these petitions have it, instead of one federation.

Also, most people signing these petitions can be assumed to be conservatives angry about the democratic outcome of the election. Why is it that these conservatives are so patriotic until they disagree with the democracy? They will have not much military defense, either.

 
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I agree with Jaume for the most part. I would think though that a state like Texas could probably survive on its own.

Also, after every election in recent memory this has happened, after Bush, after Obama’s first election, etc.

 
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“Formally address” doesn’t mean “grant permission to secede”

In all likelihood, it means “LOL nope! Stupid red states!”

Seriously, this is so much fluff and nonsense.
Further, I’d like to see those signatures vetted.

On another note…ffs Texas. Can’t you please stop making such an ass of yourself?
It makes it very hard to defend you as a whole when you have a large faction of imbeciles taking every opportunity to show off their ignorance.
/facepalm

 
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Probably the oil fields in Texas and the Gulf are a good enough reason for the rest of the US to want to keep at least some of the rednecks on board, but in purely idealogical terms this is golden opportunity which will doubtless be allowed to go to waste : )

But having the hump about an election result is hardly a reason for secession and potentially a civil war. Would I be right in assuming that this is just a bunch of neo-cons throwing a tantrum?

 
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Not even neo-cons these days, at least not the ones I am used to.
These are the “TEA Party” types; basically an astroturf movement backed by the likes of the Koch brothers, that claim to be fiscal conservatives, but go all social conservative manic as soon as they get half a chance.
There are also lots of instances of complete hypocrisy when it comes to screaming about a nanny state, whilst being a social security recipient.

Basically, it’s a lot of old white people that can’t outright say “BECAUSE HE’S A N*%@ER!!!” so they’ve come up with a load of nonsense with little to no basis in reality.

Now they think they can collect 25,000 signatures and secede.

It’s kinda cute, really.

 
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Oh my, 22000. That’s almost 0.1%! (To be fair, I have no idea how they’re gathering these signatures or any other details.)

Regardless, I seriously doubt any state will succeed in seceding. I also doubt any state (ie. a majority of said state) legitimately wants to secede. It sounds more like political bullshit.

If this was WWE, Texas would be calling Obama a jabroni.

 
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as always, i have to add that if the states’ borders would make more sense, there’d be more of a sense of state identity, and there’d be a much better likehood of this secession ever happening. and it’d be much more useful.

anyway, if all the states secede, then it will become a confederation, and possibly similar to EU or something. what would be interesing is what would happen with membership to international organisations, like the UN.

oh and i can’t wait for this to happen. strongly doubt it will, but non-the-less.

 
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Does anyone actually take these people seriously?

I live elsewhere, but whenever I read topics about secession I picture one or two loonies jumping up and down at the side of the road, waving placards Westboro Baptist style, while the whole world trundles past not even noticing they exist.

 
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Sounds about right Neil.
A very small minority of nutters.

 
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The only state this would have any chance of occurring would be Texas who (and I’m going to be paraphrasing the history as I’m a bit fuzzy on it) more or less was given guarantee that they could leave the union at any time in exchange for joining. But, that will not happen.

But, if this were to be an axiom thread and a state did secede, what would it mean? In terms of Texas, they would be one of the better equipped states to move on afterwards. They border the Gulf, have lots of oil, and also share a border with Mexico who would likely become a major trading partner as I would imagine relations between Texas and the Not-quite United States would be a bit chilly. Any military bases that the state has would of course be immediately eliminated during the transition period from statehood to becoming a nation. In theory, Texas’ national guard would provide them the military they need in the early stages before they make a bundle of treaties, likely eventually one with the US in a few decades once Washington and Austin began to realize it makes far more sense to work together.

Any state that isn’t on the coast has nil chance of seceding since they’ll be engulfed by the US. I suppose if Texas left, a state like OK could potentially join them since they would share a border.

EDIT: I forgot a bit about Hawaii and Alaska. While they don’t have the same exemptions as TX, their secession would be pretty clean since they aren’t part of the continental states and have a relatively short history of being states.

anyway, if all the states secede, then it will become a confederation, and possibly similar to EU or something. what would be interesing is what would happen with membership to international organisations, like the UN.

If all 50 broke apart, it would more or less be akin to how the EU works on the international scale, but in terms of the UN, I would imagine that each state would be represented at the UN. What would be far more likely would for there to not be 50 new countries, but like 8-10 of like-minded geographic entities.

 
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Texas Statehood and Secession Myths

It’s not actually a thing.
It’s just something ill-informed residents like to WARGHARRBL about.

 
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Texas will not secede. Why? Because independence occurs either when the majority of the people are in agreement to being independent… or the government is overthrown. And even in Texas the latter won’t happen. Of course, there is no way the former will happen either.

Most Texans do not want independence. Therefore, it will not occur.

Countries that have become independent have done so because the people from there wanted to be independent. Texans, in their majority, do not.

 
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Originally posted by softest_voice:

Texas Statehood and Secession Myths

It’s not actually a thing.
It’s just something ill-informed residents like to WARGHARRBL about.

That’s the last time I trust Rick Perry.

 
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Originally posted by issendorf:

Any military bases that the state has would of course be immediately eliminated during the transition period from statehood to becoming a nation.

I was wondering about this myself. The Air Force, for one thing, has their entire basic training operation in San Antonio (called the “gateway to the Air Force”), as well as a bunch of other miscellaneous AFB’s and Army Posts. What do you do then? Just close them down, contract them out and have those operations like Air Education and Training Command move? I guess so, I’ve seen the same thing happen to ghost bases like McClellan and Mather in California, although they weren’t as major of players.

 
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Why would they close them down? The United States has thousands of military bases around the world; of course they’d have some in Texas.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by issendorf:

Any military bases that the state has would of course be immediately eliminated during the transition period from statehood to becoming a nation.

I was wondering about this myself. The Air Force, for one thing, has their entire basic training operation in San Antonio (called the “gateway to the Air Force”), as well as a bunch of other miscellaneous AFB’s and Army Posts. What do you do then? Just close them down, contract them out and have those operations like Air Education and Training Command move? I guess so, I’ve seen the same thing happen to ghost bases like McClellan and Mather in California, although they weren’t as major of players.

Well, I mean, the US does have a ridiculous amount of military bases across the globe so keeping the bases there would likely depend on how well the secession actually happened. I can’t imagine it happening on good terms, meaning that the US would have far more interest in contracting out the bases to other states. It would be a really interesting negotiation to see take place as Texas would be very interested in the jobs, but would probably be very uninterested in having major American military presence inside its borders.

Either way, and you would know far more than I, but I wouldn’t imagine much of any basic training occurs outside the US.

 
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I wonder would the states secede from the union? I know that states can because of what happened at the beginning of the civil war with South Carolina (Not trying to be mean South Carolina!). My question is that since it happened once, will it happen again?

I also found the website for the petitions that everyone is talking about.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

Total states petitioning: 30
Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming, California, Ohio, New York, Delaware, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Arkansas, S. Carolina, Georgia, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, Colorado, Oregon, New Jersey, N. Dakota, Montana, Indiana, Mississippi, Kentucky, Florida, N. Carolina, Alabama, Texas, Louisiana

Total States that Reached the threshold(25,000 signatures):2
Texas and Louisiana

 
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Originally posted by Rubixcube7:

Total states petitioning: 30
Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, Wyoming, California, Ohio, New York, Delaware, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Arkansas, S. Carolina, Georgia, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, Colorado, Oregon, New Jersey, N. Dakota, Montana, Indiana, Mississippi, Kentucky, Florida, N. Carolina, Alabama, Texas, Louisiana

Total States that Reached the threshold(25,000 signatures):2
Texas and Louisiana

California’s petitioning? Really? Why?

 
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Please remember: It is NOT the state itself that is petitioning,,,,
just a very small number of wackos that LIVE IN the state.
I well realize just how silly politicians can seem//be at times.
But, seriously now, I don’t see any State govt. getting its shit together enough to actually represent such asinine proposals.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:


But, seriously now, I don’t see any State govt. getting its shit together enough to actually represent such asinine proposals.

Texas seems to be coming tantalizingly close. 25,000 signatures needed for the White House to consider it and they already have 22,000? This should be interesting, especially if it makes it that far.

 
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Twilight, they have exceeded 25,000. Check Rubixcube’s link. Louisiana and Texas have both exceeded 25,000, with Texas having over 50,000. But again, no, nothing will happen. The petition of less than 0.1% of a state will not make each state its own country. This is delusional.

Let’s remember that Texas has 25.6 million and Louisiana has 4.5 million. These numbers signing it are nothing.