Are you a good person?

If you were to die today, stand before God and be judged by the 10 commandments, would you be found innocent or guilty? And would you be spending eternity in heaven or hell?

Everyone has lied, stolen, lusted etc. Everyone is a liar, thief, adulterer, blasphemer etc. And if not all, then at the very least, they will be found guilty of at least 1 of the 10 commandments given by God at one point in their life:

1. Do not worship any other gods.
2. Do not make any idols.
3. Do not take the Lords Name in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath Holy.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

If God is good and just. Because he is a just judge, He will have to give you justice. And because you have broken his law, you will have to be punished. We may be good people, we may help the poor and do good deeds, but that won’t excuse a judge from giving us what is just, according to the law we have broken. If a judge excused our sin because we did good deeds, he would be corrupt.

Imagine your in court and you’ve committed a crime. The penalty is to pay a hefty fine or serve your sentence in prison. Someone comes along who you don’t even know, and pays your fine for you, you will be free to go and no law had to be ignored for your freedom, just the penalty payed.

This is what Jesus did by dying on the cross for the sins of all men – past, present and future. And all we have to do is ask God for forgiveness, repent and trust in God alone and what he did on the cross and we have eternal life.

People are not ignorant of what is right and what is wrong because God’s Law is written on our hearts. Our conscience tells us right from wrong, good from evil. Everyone will give an account to God, and you can’t enter into His Kingdom unless you are completely blameless and without sin. The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done. No one can be made right with God by following the Law because no human can keep it. But that doesn’t mean it’s an excuse to intentionally sin. Jesus requires that we repent.

Acts 4:12 – Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

It’s so simple and so free, and I certainly don’t want anyone spending eternity in the lake of fire and neither does God.

Ezekiel 18:32 – For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

I judge judge would be able to justify the laws he wants us to obey and not just go: “Dude, you either do what I want without questioning it or you fry in hell.”

And you seem to have a bit of trouble at forming arguments. If you make a claim like this bullshit here:

Originally posted by 422537:

People are not ignorant of what is right and what is wrong because God’s Law is written on our hearts.

or this bullshit here:

Everyone will give an account to God, and you can’t enter into His Kingdom unless you are completely blameless and without sin.

or this bullshit here:

The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done.

you have to give valid evidence for it.
Little heads up: the bible is not valid evidence for stuff that is written in the bible.

If you find all this a bit too long, here’s the short version:
You suck at preaching.

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EDIT: Holy crap! I just read the stuff you called the ten commandments. Just jumped over them the first time, since I assumed that you would know how to cite stuff.
You obviously also have trouble reading or you deliberately left out passages. I guess one could argue that this is a sin, putting words in God’s mouth and all…

9. Do not lie.

It’s actually
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
That’s quite a difference, because this allows for lies if you do it to protect others. Lying to harm others is forbidden.

10. Do not covet.

It’s
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.
If you can’t figure out where the difference is here, I’d suggest taking a class on basic reading skills.

At least the core point of your post stays true:
You suck at preaching.

1. I worshipped none, does that count?
2. Doesn’t modern society like it when kids get a good role model that they can idolize?
3. Great, now Hell’s going to be croweded and hot.
4. What’s a Sabbath and why should I poke holes in it?
5. Teen’s be damned. Dammit…
6. That’s just killing a person, right?
7. Can you commit adultery if you aren’t in a committed relationship?
8. Well crap.
9. I have never lied in my life. Totally.
10. I think I’m covetting right now.

Originally posted by 422537:

This is what Jesus did by dying on the cross for the sins of all men – past, present and future.

If all it took was for someone to be a martyr, then God’s really cheap.

People are not ignorant of what is right and what is wrong because God’s Law is written on our hearts.

God’s law says that I should get my heart checked on.

And also to become the tyrant ruler of France.

The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done.

Wait, doesn’t that mean that Jesus is technically an idol?

This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator

This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator

1. Pass
2. Pass
3. Doh
4. Oops
5. Pass
6. Pass
7. Pass…ish
8. Damnit
9. Blast
10. But my neighbour has such a beautiful ass…

Think I’m pretty fucked.

Not even going to bother with the rest of the post because it’s either trolling or stemming from a belief system so very distant from my own that any time spent replying to it at length is time wasted.

Originally posted by tenco1:

The only way to gain entry is to accept Jesus as Lord and accept what He has done.

Wait, doesn’t that mean that Jesus is technically an idol?

No! No!
You got it all wrong. Jesus is God.
…
Who had himself killed to show us how much he cared for us.
…
And then had himself resurrected by himself to… Uh… I don’t know. Show us that he actually doesn’t care, I guess.
I mean, what kind of half-assed commitment is that? Die for our sins and three days later jump around again and fuck off to heaven again to wait until he can finally judge us all according to the rules that he set up and that he consciously designed in a way that we can only fail.

When could I say I’m good enough person? The learning never stops.

And yes, I wouldn’t advice starting these kind of topics here, not with accepting this many axioms before the the actual productive discussion could start. The axioms should be discussed first, and if majority of people here disagrees with you, continuing from that with the same axioms won’t be productive for anyone.

Hey EPR89,

yeah to show He cares and so we may be presented to the Father spotless and so to not be condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity.

I was having a similar discussion with my friend the other day who said, (in kinder words) that “Jesus’ sacrifice doesn’t seem that great because he was only dead for 3 days.” But if he remained dead for eternity, we won’t have the opportunity to be resurrected on the last day and live with him forever. We can only live forever if he rose from the grave. He’s sacrifice would be in vain if not and his disciples, friends, family and 500 others won’t have seen him post-crucifixion and would probably go back to there every day lives and avoid spreading the Gospel.

Yes He designed his Law in a way that we can only fail. But as the apostle Paul said. The Law was given not to make us righteous with God, but to show us just how sinful we really are.

Galatians 3:
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

23 Before the coming of this faith,[b] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Galatians 4:1-7
What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[a] of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[b] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,© Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

Romans 7:
The Law and Sin

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.© For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Reading the New Testament all the way through, won’t hurt and it’ll probably help you out with your unanswered questions.

Originally posted by 422537:

Yes He designed his Law in a way that we can only fail. But as the apostle Paul said. The Law was given not to make us righteous with God, but to show us just how sinful we really are.

Then it’s a Catch 22. I mean, God made laws that specifically say that someone is sinful because they don’t follow the rules that were menat to make everyone sinful.

Personally, I find Catch-22s to be kind of dickish when done on purpose.

Hey tenco1,

The Law wasn’t given to make us sinful, it was given to show us our sin. Like looking in a mirror, shows you your appearance. The Law shows us how God sees us, disobedient and evil.

If you haven’t read all the pages of the New Testament, try it, your perspective will probably change. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:18, “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

tenco, I don’t want you to perish, please at least consider reading the whole NT.

“good” is a fallacy

422537, minor question. Why would you wish to live forever after you die? How is an eternal existence possibly going to be a good thing? There are certain axioms you’d have to accept with an eternal existence. Sharply limited potential for growth being one of them.

Mister with the incredibly random name, you are still using the bible as evidence for the bible…

Why should I take that stuff serious? It’s just a book.
And if I had to interpret that character that in the book shows up as God, Jesus and under a bunch of other names, the thing that first comes to my mind is egomaniac, closely followed by power hungry, deluded tyrant.
Actually, that’s not entirely true. Even though my local cleric told me time and again that that Jesus dude and that god dude are actually the same entity, I don’t really believe that. The text is not at all clear on that and some points even seem to contradict this apparently commonly accepted identification.

Hey vikaTae,

It’s probably kind of different when your not living on this earth. When your living with the very One who created you, I’m pretty confident it’s not the same feeling. heightened senses, constant joy and happiness infinite possibilities? It’s a warped view to think that the very God who made love, sex and every kind of joy on this earth doesn’t have infinite more tricks up his sleeve when he mentions eternal life. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 2:9, However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”

The Bible says our bodies will be transformed when we see him. I don’t think limited potential is something anyone will have to worry about.

Please read the whole NT if you haven’t already vika, you’ve nothing to lose.

Constant joy and happiness, is just overstimulation of the pleasure center. Eventually the rest of the mind atrophies away, as all you become is a simple pleasure circuit. I’m not interested in that fate.

I’m not living with those who created me. My father is dead, and my relationship with my mother has improved drastically with a large ocean between us. Mind you, they only created my body. I’m dead-set on chopping and changing that around, anyway, so they didn’t create very much.

Hey EPR89,

here is some good reasons to take the book more seriously. It defines it’s core message as Love. This is probably something that every sane human can agree is probably one of the most important things or pursuits in life. Jesus said the greatest commandments of the Law is to Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 22:37-40

The book undoubtedly contains some undeniable truth in places. And 1 man established a religion in 3 years, that spread throughout several parts of the world like wild fire, post-death.

EPR89, here is a clear reason to believe that the Christian God is also Jesus:

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Well vikaTae,

everybody wants to be fulfilled in this life, in one way or the other. I believe that a fulfillment that cannot be fully satisfied in this temporary life, can be satisfied with God. No one can deny the interest in a fate of fulfillment.

I believe God can chop and change you to your hearts fulfillment.

Originally posted by 422537:

I believe God can chop and change you to your hearts fulfillment.

Oh, I definitely agree that once you reach the level of a god, you have pretty much complete control over your environment. We just disagree on the method.

You’d rather sit back and use faith that a god will do what you want when the time comes.

I’d rather pour effort into placing such abilities within our own reach, and elevating our own status in the process.

Same end result (in theory), two very different methods. Mine guarantees it on Earth, though you take a chance that you’ll live long enough to see it. Yours gives you it regardless of how long you live, but you take a chance that it even exists.

alright so:

1. Do not worship any other gods.
2. Do not make any idols.
3. Do not take the Lords Name in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath Holy.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

1. define “other gods”? depending on definition, each of the Trinity is another god. besides, according to Christian lore, there are no other gods. how could one worship what does not exist? this whole commandment makes no sense.
2. oh boy…define idols. does children count? i mean…whatever.
3. god damnit, every second word in any European language is a deritive of either God or Jesus, come on now. first thing you learn is cursing.
4. impossible and insane if taken literally
5. fuck my parents. why would any omniscient and benevolent god demand us to honor our parents even if they fucking suck? that’s just horrible, and he can stuff that commandment up whatever comes closest to an ass. what a horrible deity.
6. as for homicide, i guess i’m clear on that. but we could make an entire thread defining who is or isn’t a murderer…
7. if you read the Bible, this is the most stupid commandment of all. in the original definition, marriage usually involves a life-time of rape, but it’s adultery that counts as a sin, one that most prophets made themselves guilty of.
8. the definition of stealing depends on a definition of possession, which is entirely moot.
9. i rarely ever lie, but sometimes one has to, so this is stupid.
10. coveting is involentary.

who is this “god”, and why is he so stupid?

better hypothesis: imagine you would come accross an exact clone of yourself. now, how would you two get along, and how good of a person would you and your clone each esteem the other to be?

Here’s a pretty good reason to believe that Jesus is not God.

Mark 15:34 (21st Century King James Version)
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is, being interpreted, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”

He doubts himself?!
You’ve got to be kidding me.

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Also, you didn’t bring up anything that suggests that the bible is true. The fact that it has love as its core message – which I strongly disagree with; I think its core message is blind obedience – doesn’t add any validity to it.

The book undoubtedly contains some undeniable truth in places.

Cool.
Where?
And how does it make the whole text valid? In Harry Potter there is a train station that exists in real life. That still doesn’t mean that Hogwarts is a real place where wizards and witches are taught how to use magic.

And 1 man established a religion in 3 years, that spread throughout several parts of the world like wild fire, post-death.

Jesus didn’t establish anything. You seem to lack some serious knowledge on your own religion.

Originally posted by 422537:

Hey tenco1,

The Law wasn’t given to make us sinful, it was given to show us our sin.

It’s still a catch 22, because by making those laws sin is created if used as a measurement for how good a person is, which you said was what God does.

The Law shows us how God sees us, disobedient and evil.

Enter into topic about how God isn’t actually omnipotent or benevolent, whit a then resulting argument over free will and how contradictory it inherently is.

Scientifically speaking, free will doesn’t exist. Does that change any part of the argument?

Originally posted by vikaTae:

Scientifically speaking, free will doesn’t exist. Does that change any part of the argument?

Kinda what I meant by contradictory, so not really.

Well EPR89 and vikaTae,

My job is not to change you, only God has such authority. But I will do what I have been told by Him and hope for the best. I have faith in your ability to change. Please don’t completely close your heart to the message and please consider reading the whole NT. You will probably find answers that I myself cannot yet answer.

and EPR89,

Because Jesus called God His own God as well, does not mean He Himself is not God. Jesus was submissive to the Father but that doesn’t eradicate his own status of God. Only God has always existed. John makes it pretty clear that Jesus has also always existed, that he was present with the Father at the beginning of creation and was Himself the Father. Jesus calls his disciples children and says He will not leave them orphaned, suggesting He is their Father. But he also claims to be their sibling and also claims to be the Son of God. This is a mystery only God can claim.

He also says if you have seen me, you have seen the Father John 14:9.

You asked for reasons to take the Bible more seriously, not reasons to validate it’s truthfulness. Ask God, if you really want the answer.