Criminally insane?

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So I just read that guy turcotte, a Canadian man who stabbed both of his children to death has just been released after serving only 2 years in a phyciactric hospital. So my question is this. What do you guys think about people being able to plead insanity. should it be so easy. Or even an option at all?? I think it’s bs. No matter how crazy you are, if you commit a crime like that you should be locked away for life or executed no matter what. What does everyone think?

 
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The insanity defense should only apply if he was going to face death.
A few exceptions, but generally that should be how it is in my opinion.

Why?
Unless this person is drugged out of their mind, or was drugged out of their mind at the time, he didn’t change in just a few months or years in most cases.
It’d really depend on the situation of the insanity plea and why, but most of the time I’d say they wouldn’t change without tons of drugs/removal of tons of drugs.

It’s really really situational for it all, so I couldn’t give a real answer.

And claiming insanity is fairly hard, at least here in America from what I’ve heard.
Harder in other countries in South America for example from what I’ve heard, but that’s completely unconfirmed.

 
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The story about the Canadian man being released after 2 years sounds fake. Let me explain why.

There are two possibilities. Either the man is criminally insane, or he is not.

If he is not, then he is a vicious murderer and deserves to be locked up for a long time.

If he is, then he is a rampaging, crazy psychopathic maniac and deserves to be locked up for a long time, albeit in a maximum security mental illness facility.

 
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two years is a pretty long time. and from this story it seems quite obvious he was psychotic. now that we know he can get violently psychotic, we just have to keep an eye on that for the rest of his life, to avoid further tragedy.

that’s all there is to it. although, could any sane person in any way live with himself after having killed their own children?

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

two years is a pretty long time. and from this story it seems quite obvious he was psychotic. now that we know he can get violently psychotic, we just have to keep an eye on that for the rest of his life, to avoid further tragedy.

that’s all there is to it. although, could any sane person in any way live with himself after having killed their own children?

So why does he deserve to get out? Couldn’t he still hurt more people?

 
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I want a source that says that he got out. If someone commits a crime like that and later is found to be insane, which caused him to commit that crime, he will not “get out”. Instead of being locked up in a prison he will be locked up in max security mental hospital.

 
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naw they can get out, but only if psychiatrists vouch that it’s safe. and who’s talking about deserving? i don’t think that’s relevant.

a psychosis typically only lasts a few weeks at most, so after two years, the psychiatrists probably have a good idea how much of a danger that person is. obviously just because he’s not in an institute doesn’t mean that they have no clue what he’s up to. i’m sure he still has dayly or weekly therapy.

a psychosis doesn’t occur over night, so it should be safe. if we wanna discuss the potential risks about that, we should probably look into it deeper how this is done, which probably differs a lot from country to country.

plus, a psychotic killer is no where near as risky as pedophiles. we should have much more to discuss talking about the risk of recidivism of released pedophiles.

 
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Full Story

Post your links in the OP, jackass. Nobody cares about your rambling nonsense.

 
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hmm. “blackouts”. that’s all it says about that. seems like a very thin insanity plead. “i don’t really remember doing it”.

but the jury bought it. there must be more to that.

 
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Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

hmm. “blackouts”. that’s all it says about that. seems like a very thin insanity plead. “i don’t really remember doing it”.

but the jury bought it. there must be more to that.

Maybe a great lawyer.
Not going to rant on how inherently flawed the idea of having “normal” people make objective decisions in emotionally loaded cases like this is and how I still befuddles me how the “greatest country on the planet” can rely on them so much.

 
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this was Canada, though.

 
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You know, even though OP didn’t intend to hit on a big issue, he hit on a massive issue. People should be dubbed criminally insane for any crime in violation of very strict moral laws that we all seem to hold self evident (e.g. do not murder, do not torture people, etc.).

The reason why is that they are behaving in an unnatural way — there is some cognitive faculty they have that is failing to operate at normal efficiency. A killer is not inhuman, he is, in some sense, a defective human (defect in this context means a deviation from the norm, which in this context means simply how one ought to behave). Okay I know people on this forum are big on philosophy since they think it actually matters (it doesn’t), so I’ll clarify right now that you know what I mean by “ought to behave.”

It’s a great injustice in most countries to simply incarcerate these people. We do a number of things wrong here:

1) We isolate this person from any and all normal human interaction (absolutely necessary for and conducive to social and behaviour change).
2) We economically destroy his family by removing (in general) its primary provider. Many of these people have children.
3) We emotionally wreck his family. His children will often grow in fatherless, violent, unhealthy environments and are more prone to criminal behavior (it’s learned, not innate).
4) We economically rape the country by requiring we feed and house this man for sentences up to life.
5) We intellectually drive the country to bankruptcy. When/if this person gets out of jail after a while, he is completely unable to function in the world given how much it changed. He is more prone to committing crime again to be back in a place he understands—he is more prone to suicide, to escape he place he doesn’t understand.

We destroy everything about this person and the country of which he’s a member. But as OP demonstrates, we seek revenge, not rehabilitation. It’s inconceivable we can modify a criminal’s behavior so that he’s a normally functioning person in society. But as contempoary behaviorally psychology reveals, this is the case, and Norway has implemented it into their prison system.

Here’s how I believe a prison system ought to operate:

After you’re convicted of a crime, you’re sentenced to prison, wherein the following rules apply:

1) You’re in an exquisite hotel environment. Very nice beds, quality clothing, working shower units.
2) You have recreational activities readily available. You may play tennis with inmates, form bonds, communicate, or even smoke joints while playing video games with each other.
3) You’re taught life skills. We teach you to cook, to clean, to use modern technology. We help you out with fashion.
4) You’re given a very strong education in a host of subjects, focused on Psychology. We will train you to be an expert in your field, with the hopes that you will pursue research activities in the field of Psychology.
5) We confer extensive psychiatric evaluations, on a daily or bidaily (once every two days), and monitor your progress in change. We identify why you did what you did, and we figure out ways to rehabilitate you.
6) We train you for a job outside of prison. In your final year, we help you apply for jobs so that you may find an job immediately upon exiting.
7) We allow zero visitation. You may write to communicate with loved ones, but no visitation. This rule is bendable though, I may not stick to it.
8) We force you to do at least one recreational activity per day for at least two hours time. Tennis, communicating in a field, playing a video games, hitting the gym, etc. If you fail, we double your on hands assistance, more people helping you complete your tasks, more attention given to you, and we make your psychiatric meetings a higher frequency.
9) We force you to do at least one intellectual activity per day. Learning to use the Internet, training you in a new skill like differential equations, practice in research methods, reading scientific journals (none of this mystery novel crap), all geared as an independent study.
10) This takes as long as it needs to. It can be six months for a killing spree at an elementary school, or ten years for threatening to kill yourself.
11) Prison guards are unequipped with guns. They are not in uniform. They are casual, normal people who are trained psychiatrists/psychologists. We have time sheets on your door that you fill out, and are signed and confirmed by at least one guard. At any given moment, at least one guard must be in some vicinity, either engaging in or observing the recreational activity you are doing.

I guarantee you will see improved results. People often hate this idea because they don’t get revenge, but I feel these people who harbor these ill, malicious feelings be subjected to prison rules as well. Or extensive psychotherapy to analyse why they feel revenge ought to be extracted, and educated on its results.

 
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The danger there is you are giving prisoners a higher quality of life than many of the poor. You would have to be prepared for a massive increase in the prison population if you implemented this, as a goodly number of those below the poverty line would see committing a crime and being sentenced to prison as a way to ascend to the ‘sweet life’.

 
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That is a point of contention, and one to be weary of. We could make it an alternative at first to detention until we iron out the kinks in society first—although we’d still need some way to persuade them to stick with it. We’d need to make sure it’s widely known that, although it is rehabilitative and progressive, it is not necessary pleasant or fun—it’s a lot of hard work. Maybe even laborious.

I reckon it would be analogous to drug rehabilitation centers. I’m not familiar with many people becoming drug addicts to attend rehab. In either case, things like this aren’t created by one person, I’d think. There’d need to be collaborators covering each other’s weaknesses in creating such a system.

 
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Insanity plea should only apply to the death sentence. The amount of time they remain in prison should not be changed. If anything, an insanity plea should increase the probation period afterwards.

 
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I reckon it would be analogous to drug rehabilitation centers. I’m not familiar with many people becoming drug addicts to attend rehab.

Well, in most places it isn’t free. So you’re still paying for it. Some countries provide facilities or funds for criminal drug addicts, usually as part of sentencing and court ordered rehab. Have I heard of people committing crimes in order to get into rehab they can’t afford? Yup.

Back on topic. I always found it strange that we sentence based so deeply upon intent. I find whether someone is ‘morally culpable’ in their deranged violence a little… after the fact. Really the larger threat to society seems those capable of criminal actions without motive or personal stake.

 
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The point of jail is to reform crimminals into productive members of society. Pretty much, “I dont want to go there again, so I better change”
However, insane people cannot think this way. They are illogical and some cannot even see the connection between action and consequence and others cannot help themselves from performing such acts. So they have to be treated differently.
In other words, “Equality is not about giving everyone the same thing; it is giving each person what they need to succeed”

 
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It’s ludicrously hard to get off on being criminally insane, and we shouldn’t be executing them.
They’re people, after all. Just with a little in-born defects, or otherwise obtained by evens largely outside of their own control.
The attitude the OP holds is precisely the reason why these people continue to do these things- they slip under the radar, because they’re marginalized and stuck in shitty situations and allowed to do their own thing, which is downright dangerous. They often desperately need help, but the state doesn’t want to help them because the people, in majority, will fear them or hate them.