Does suicide mean you are going to hell?? page 4

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It’s for God to judge that. No one knows a man’s heart, except that man and God. Perhaps a person is stuck in a hopeless situation, with no fate but certain death in a short amount of time, and nothing else to accomplish.

For instance, if an astronaut were to get stuck in a situation where the capsule were spiraling into outer space, with no control, no communications, and no power. It’s only a matter of time before that astronaut freezes to death, and in the meantime he is stuck in a tumble dryer. That situation is hopeless, and painful, and slow death. If that astronaut had a gun, would God send the person to hell for skipping the last few days of slowly freezing to death in a dark Popsicle on spin cycle? That’s really up to God, not the Catholic Church, nor Atheists, both of whom would normally insist God is a vengeful awful intolerant being.

The way to Heaven is through Christ, and doing what He wants you to do. I can’t imagine Jesus would desire you to off yourself, but I also couldn’t imagine Him not being understanding to some circumstances. That said, it’s still not my call to make, nor anyone else’s.

 
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Why did you bump this one after so long, Galdos?

He does it for a living.

That’s really up to God, not the Catholic Church, nor Atheists, both of whom would normally insist God is a vengeful awful intolerant being.

Wait, are you saying the Catholic Church paints God as a vengeful, awful, intolerant being? That doesn’t seem right. Then again, I’m not sure if the religion you follow is the polar opposite of Catholicism.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

It&#8217

The way to Heaven is through Christ, and doing what He wants you to do.

Really? What about other religions and the teachings of their prophets and gods. Surely they would argue that to get into heaven you must follow what their god says. Furthermore, are you saying you cannot get into heaven if you do not believe in what you believe in?

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

It’s for God to judge that. No one knows a man’s heart, except that man and God. Perhaps a person is stuck in a hopeless situation, with no fate but certain death in a short amount of time, and nothing else to accomplish.

For instance, if an astronaut were to get stuck in a situation where the capsule were spiraling into outer space, with no control, no communications, and no power. It’s only a matter of time before that astronaut freezes to death, and in the meantime he is stuck in a tumble dryer. That situation is hopeless, and painful, and slow death. If that astronaut had a gun, would God send the person to hell for skipping the last few days of slowly freezing to death in a dark Popsicle on spin cycle? That’s really up to God, not the Catholic Church, nor Atheists, both of whom would normally insist God is a vengeful awful intolerant being.

The way to Heaven is through Christ, and doing what He wants you to do. I can’t imagine Jesus would desire you to off yourself, but I also couldn’t imagine Him not being understanding to some circumstances. That said, it’s still not my call to make, nor anyone else’s.

I came in to post something like this and you’ve said it better than I ever could.

Contray to what japenese rpgs may teach you, we do not worship a callous and evil God.

 
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Originally posted by jmj1011995:
Originally posted by MyTie:

It&#8217

The way to Heaven is through Christ, and doing what He wants you to do.

Really? What about other religions and the teachings of their prophets and gods. Surely they would argue that to get into heaven you must follow what their god says. Furthermore, are you saying you cannot get into heaven if you do not believe in what you believe in?

I’m here stating my beliefs, not the beliefs of all mankind. Why is it whenever a Christian states their views, some overly mutli-cultural post follows? Must we put a disclaimer on our views that there are people that disagree with us? I would feel as if I were insulting the intelligence of my readers to explain that to them.

 
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No, MyTie…such a “disclaimer” would be no more of an insult to those who read YOUR opinion than is a “challenge” to it an insult when they are simply stating their OPINON about yours.
Why can’t ya see it as such?

If YOU aren’t particularly “accepting” of theirs,,
why should they be of yours?
Why shouldn’t they challenge the merit of yours?
After all, isn’t that pretty much the purpose of this forum?
It sure ain’t YOUR “soapbox” for ya to pontificate.

If YOU don’t like such challenges,,,
many of them would likely cease, or at least be much less of a critical rebuttal were ya to preface such statements as being only your very personal opinion….eh?

 
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That’s really up to God, not the Catholic Church, nor Atheists, both of whom would normally insist God is a vengeful awful intolerant being.

I’ve never understood the irrational prejudice some American protestants have against Catholics. As far as an intolerant God is concerned, Atheists don’t believe in one, and aside from strongholds like the Vatican, Catholics typically don’t try to impose puritanical and discriminatory laws on an entire population the way the far right Christians do in the US.

 
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committing suicide will guarantee you to not be buried in a public cemetery if you are catholic.

 
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so what if someone partakes in a suicide mission? what about euthenasia? what about swallowing a cyanide pill so you don’t fall into the hands of the enemy, get tortured, and betray sensitive military secrets?

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

No, MyTie…such a “disclaimer” would be no more of an insult to those who read YOUR opinion than is a “challenge” to it an insult when they are simply stating their OPINON about yours.
Why can’t ya see it as such?

If YOU aren’t particularly “accepting” of theirs,,
why should they be of yours?
Why shouldn’t they challenge the merit of yours?
After all, isn’t that pretty much the purpose of this forum?
It sure ain’t YOUR “soapbox” for ya to pontificate.

If YOU don’t like such challenges,,,
many of them would likely cease, or at least be much less of a critical rebuttal were ya to preface such statements as being only your very personal opinion….eh?

He’s not questioning the accuracy of my opinion, Karma. He was explaining to me that there are other belief systems. I’m all like “no crap, really?”. Also, please don’t question how “accepting of others” I am, just because my religious beliefs differ from theirs.

Originally posted by cantonaitis:I’ve never understood the irrational prejudice some American protestants have against Catholics. As far as an intolerant God is concerned, Atheists don’t believe in one, and aside from strongholds like the Vatican, Catholics typically don’t try to impose puritanical and discriminatory laws on an entire population the way the far right Christians do in the US.

I guess I should say that the majority of Atheists I’ve talked to view the portrayal of the Christian God as some sort of tyrannical unjust meanie. As far as Catholicism goes, they make up the will of God, in places that the Bible is silent. They even change it from time to time. Sometimes they say God sees something as a sin, and then later not, or vice versa. But, the will of God doesn’t change. It’s the most obvious self contradictory “branch” of Christianity there is, although I don’t believe that true Christianity branches out at all. Anyway, it isn’t as though my issues with Catholicism are “irrational”. I’ve thought it out pretty well and can explain my reasoning. I chose to bring up Catholicism because they are the example I can think of who believe that suicide will land you in Hell, among other things that they have decided will send people to Hell or not. They play God, not Church.
Originally posted by 422537:

karmakoolkid, because starting an argument like that on this particular thread is going off topic and not very helpful. The question is about Heaven and hell, the Christian answer obviously fits into that category.


The person is asking what Christians and other religious people thought, implying that he doesn’t want atheist and agnostic points of view – nor their responding arguments to someone else’s religious response.

Don’t even bother trying to explain it to them. They impulsively argue with everything I say.

 
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As a muslim, I consider Suicide a highway to hell.
Unless you are a fidayeen.
No. its not same as suicide bombing, its more like thermoply style last stand or fight to death.

 
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Oh look a Muslim stated his view. Come on guys, lecture him about how there are other viewpoints. Come on you atheist multi-cultural libs. Tell him what for. Prove that you aren’t JUST anti-Christian. This would fit in reply to him:

Originally posted by jmj1011995:>Really? What about other religions and the teachings of their prophets and gods. Surely they would argue that to get into heaven you must follow what their god says. Furthermore, are you saying you cannot get into heaven if you do not believe in what you believe in?

Why is it only Christians who get the rainbow lecture?

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:

Oh look a Muslim stated his view. Come on guys, lecture him about how there are other viewpoints. Come on you atheist multi-cultural libs. Tell him what for. Prove that you aren’t JUST anti-Christian. This would fit in reply to him:

Originally posted by jmj1011995:>Really? What about other religions and the teachings of their prophets and gods. Surely they would argue that to get into heaven you must follow what their god says. Furthermore, are you saying you cannot get into heaven if you do not believe in what you believe in?


Why is it only Christians who get the rainbow lecture?

To be honest MYTIE,
Christains do seem to take a lot of heat from these Atheists.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:To be honest MYTIE,
Christains do seem to take a lot of heat from these Atheists.

Disliking and speaking out against Christianity is vogue. When it ceases to be fashionable to dislike Christianity, and becomes fashionable to be Christian, all of a sudden people will lavish praise on it. It’s irritating.

 
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lol.

Just the idea that christians get more flak than muslims…astounding.

 
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Originally posted by cantonaitis:

lol.

Just the idea that christians get more flak than muslims…astounding.

Even the Muslim agrees. Sure, everyone gets a hard time, but the social double standard does exist. It is not cool to give Muslims a hard time. That’s not culturally sensitive. On the other hand, it is expected to give Christians a hard time. That’s standard.

Do you actualyl read these forums? Try to look around here with an unbiased eye and come back and give another opinion. The “flak” Christians get here is constant, and derogatory, and extreme.

 
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Originally posted by cantonaitis:

lol.

Just the idea that christians get more flak than muslims…astounding.

Muslims not getting verbal flak is cancelled by the actual flak they get
like attacks etc.

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by cantonaitis:

lol.

Just the idea that christians get more flak than muslims…astounding.

Muslims not getting verbal flak is cancelled by the actual flak they get
like attacks etc.

The majority of violence Muslims receive is from other Muslims. The conditions in Palestine are an abhorrent example of how extremists use fear, intimidation, and murder to control entire groups of your people.

 
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Not all christians. But it does tend to happen that the ones who espouse christian beliefs also tend to be bigoted and/or social reactionary. ‘The muslim’ as you call him, is the same way, and is treated accordingly. That being said, his response to the topic differs in one important way from yours:

Originally posted by thepunisher52:

As a muslim, I consider Suicide a highway to hell.
Unless you are a fidayeen.
No. its not same as suicide bombing, its more like thermoply style last stand or fight to death.

He qualified his statement. For muslims, suicide is a terrible sin. It’s not much, but it’s enough to set him well enough away from what you said, that tried to apply christian belief on everybody.

He also probably got away with it because no one knows what are fedayeen. Judge for yourself whether or not it differs all that much from suicide bombing. Considering how often he romanticizes terrorist ideals, I’m going to say, ‘not that much’.

Also I think it would be proper to reflect on the supposed flak you get.

Originally posted by jmj1011995:
Originally posted by MyTie:

It&#8217

The way to Heaven is through Christ, and doing what He wants you to do.

Really? What about other religions and the teachings of their prophets and gods. Surely they would argue that to get into heaven you must follow what their god says. Furthermore, are you saying you cannot get into heaven if you do not believe in what you believe in?

He is not insulting you. He’s merely pointing out that you were talking about your beliefs as though they are universal truths, when they are not. Not for other religions, not for this forum. Then when karma said basically the same thing I said, you responded with:

He’s not questioning the accuracy of my opinion, Karma. He was explaining to me that there are other belief systems. I’m all like “no crap, really?”. Also, please don’t question how “accepting of others” I am, just because my religious beliefs differ from theirs.

Except you seemed to be missing the point. If you accept that there are other belief systems (like Islam) then it follows that you accept that there are differing moral views from your own, equally certain there’s is the true path to salvation. In other words, you gain a sense of perspective which tempers your tendency to make grandiose claims about the absolute rightness of your beliefs. But you don’t. Your belief system doesn’t just ‘differ’ from others, it can’t co-exist peacefully with others (if followed through). Your belief system sounds something like: ’I’m right and everyone else is damned to hell,’ which you might agree, is not particularly tolerant. So, to put it another way, why should the damned treat your beliefs with any more tolerance than you treat theirs?

Wait, did I just sum up the golden rule? How about that.

Now you might say that the people who criticize you here have no beliefs so the golden rule doesn’t apply. Well, most probably don’t have much in the way of religious belief, but if i might generalize, what they have in common is a belief in the supreme importance of tolerance. If people show tolerance, they deserve to receive it, if not, they can go to hell…figuratively speaking.

 
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Originally posted by MyTie:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by cantonaitis:

lol.

Just the idea that christians get more flak than muslims…astounding.

Muslims not getting verbal flak is cancelled by the actual flak they get
like attacks etc.

The majority of violence Muslims receive is from other Muslims. The conditions in Palestine are an abhorrent example of how extremists use fear, intimidation, and murder to control entire groups of your people.

Oh, I think I was wrong about Jews taking over
Or myanamar killings
Or Indian riots.
Or Attacks on muslims in Europe
Or the sikhs being attacked after being mistaken for muslims
Or innoccent muslims dying in drone strikes
Or FBI inflitrating mosques.
Or ground Zero mosque controversy.


He also probably got away with it because no one knows what are fedayeen. Judge for yourself whether or not it differs all that much from suicide bombing. Considering how often he romanticizes terrorist ideals, I’m going to say, ‘not that much’.

I was talking about Lashkar-e – taiba Fidayeens.
In 90’s, they used to attack Indian army bases in Kashmir with intention of fighting till death or reaching their ammunition limit.
Link

 
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Bumper

 
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Originally posted by thepunisher52:Oh, I think I was wrong about Jews taking over
Or myanamar killings
Or Indian riots.
Or Attacks on muslims in Europe
Or the sikhs being attacked after being mistaken for muslims
Or innoccent muslims dying in drone strikes
Or FBI inflitrating mosques.
Or ground Zero mosque controversy.

You can point to instances of violence against Muslims, not perpetuated by Muslims. That’s no doubt. There are plenty of them. I wasn’t saying there isn’t. There isn’t a sect of people that doesn’t receive violence from outside their community. However, I’ll reiterate my point, that the violence Muslims receives, is by far received from other Muslims. Just look at the violence in Syria, or Iran, or Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Egypt, or Libya, or even Israel. Even in the most “active” fight against Muslims by a different community, in Palestine, during the 2000-2002 fighting, over 12% of Palestinian deaths during the war were caused by in fighting (source http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/mostly.html). That number inflates to show that many many more civilians are killed by Palestinians, if combatants are ignored from the statistics (source http://www.policymic.com/articles/2387/why-do-palestinian-deaths-outnumber-israeli-deaths). I’m not saying that there is no violence against Muslims from others, or that the violence is justified due to its relative size. Those things are definitely bad and should be addressed. But, the elephant in the room, is by FAR, the fact that Muslims are killing each other in record numbers, especially in land controlled by Muslims.

 
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Sure sounds like you’re saying drone attacks in afghanistan/pakistan or the first gulf war that killed over a million iraqi children or etc, aren’t really that big a deal compared to the death toll for muslim vs muslim violence is greater – and your links don’t actually prove that. The first link covers a decade-old study (the ‘02 intifada is NOT the most active period of muslim attacks), so given that it doesn’t include stuff like Cast Lead, or the Flotilla blockades, I’m inclined to dismiss it. The second one is a blog and biased as fuck towards the israeli side…I stopped reading after

Moreover, Israel displays a firm commitment to protect innocent life, while Palestinian combatants deliberately target innocent civilians and women, as the data suggests. The Israeli Army has a code of ethics. Israeli soldiers must act “out of recognition of the supreme value of human life," and “do all in [their] power to avoid causing harm to [noncombatants’] lives, bodies, dignity, and property.”

Bullshit, both sides target innocents / allow use of indiscriminate fire. The palestinians are just more honest about it.

Even if your data was accurate though, I’d still be left with the same feeling as the one expressed above: that you’re trying to weasel out of admitting that your country and its allies randomly slaughters muslims in large numbers. Just because Hamas is a shitshow doesn’t negate that complicity.

Oh, and…Punisher

LeT is also a shitshow. They’ve helped train AQ members FFS. They’re not glorious heroes to be put on a pedestal next to Nehru, they’re violent fanatics to be exterminated.

 
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We have no idea what suicide means to whatever god exists (if any), because we haven’t scientifically conversed with it yet. What we do know is what many religions say, and what many individuals say. Personally, suicide isn’t a bad action in general unless an non-omnipotent god needed you for something. It does no harm but to yourself, and you seem to be willing (at that moment in time). Even if you weren’t willing (drunk or the like), then you can’t really be seen as a criminal, can you?

Prove that you aren’t JUST anti-Christian.

Is this a “he did it too, mommy” type of argument? I do not see many Muslims on this board and even if there are, they’re not as quick to say they’re Muslims as Christians are quick to reveal their beliefs. You, like many others, throw yourself into the fray on abortion and homosexual marriage with extreme views and expect that Muslims get “attacked” as much as you do? Please.

 
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Hopefully not i believe if u suicide and no on finds ur body ud become a spirit but it would be unlikely you’d go to hell if u suicide.