Evolution vs. Creation

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Evolution vs. Creation is like good vs. evil (not saying evolution is evil, it means they are opposites) People get so worked up when they debate it that fights are started and fists are flying. I would like it if people who are knowledgable on the subjects to please provide some evidence for why they are true and/or false. Even though i am a christian, i want this to be purely evidence. If we go off of the basis that it’s just our belief then it’s too easy to disprove.

 
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I just had a thought on this. There are many genetically inherited diseases that have been proven in their existence. If there was a God then why would he punish people who haven’t been born yet seemingly at random.

 
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There is evidence in science: people have discovered things that further prove (although of course, it may not be true) evolution, and it’s a pretty solid theory. However, there is no proof I can think of in Christianity. People may say “Oh, the Bible, duh, you moron” or something similar, but the fact is that is not proof. The Bible was quite obviously written by men who had their own beliefs and wished to spread them. Besides that “proof” there is nothing.

 
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There’s also a small, less believed theory that God (or a large essence) created evolution. I’m generally a believer of that, and if your a regular in the SD forums that hasn’t realized I’m not your standard Christian, you need your eyes checked! ;P

I just had a thought on this. There are many genetically inherited diseases that have been proven in their existence. If there was a God then why would he punish people who haven’t been born yet seemingly at random.

That goes back to the idea that maybe God flawed us? Maybe Earth is just a prototype, I mean really… humans created the bible, right? Anything can be possible.

 
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What evidence in science?

Isn’t evolution a faith as well? Just as the bible is proof for christianity isn’t orgin of species a “bible” for evolution? No one has seen evolution in action, people do bring up the argument that things evovlve certain abilities and i do not deny that but the fact is that a monkey has never evolved into a fish. It might evolve new characteristics but it will still be a monkey.

 
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http://www.talkorigins.org/

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[racist post removed]

 
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[racist post removed]

Dude, stop. No one is even going to pretend to listen to you if your outright racist.

No one has seen evolution in action, people do bring up the argument that things evovlve certain abilities and i do not deny that but the fact is that a monkey has never evolved into a fish.

Yes, we have. Over the course of millions and millions of years, creatures have been changing. Fossil records confirm this. Evolution (or Natural Selection) provides a viable explanation for this, while religion does not. Also, what does a monkey turning into a fish have to do wish anything? Perhaps you mean that a fish turned into a monkey? Some propose that land life was evolved from sea life, but the change isn’t as drastic as a fish sprouting legs and growing fur one day; it happens over a great deal of time.

 
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Racist? hmm…

Black people can call other black people N… but white cant… NOW THAT IS RACIST!

anyway… Monkeys or chimps have similar DNA, so people assume that we were once Monkeys/Chimps… that might be so… but i disagree… …… (….)

 
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Black people can call other black people N… but white cant… NOW THAT IS RACIST!

It doesn’t have the same connotations coming from someone of the same race, I guess. There is an existing thread around here for this discussion, if you want to debate it further.

 
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Okay, here’s the truly blunt view. There is no proof of anything. The human race knows nothing. We may have got life and the universe completely wrong. We may each have our own fantasy, so say each person lived in a different world and knew different people and all. Now that would be bizarre. We may not even exist! When it all comes down to it, there is no such thing as truth.

 
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Hooray solipsism! It’s so completely useless!

Isn’t evolution a faith as well? Just as the bible is proof for christianity isn’t orgin of species a “bible” for evolution?

This is completely and utterly wrong. The Origin of the Species is the place where our learning about evolution started, not the place where it ended. From our modern perspective, it is almost entirely incorrect.

Really, this is the main problem with religious texts – they’re where learning ends, not where it begins. Apologetics are a symptom of this; they start from the religion and try to figure out how to twist things so that the claims made by the religion match reality, whereas in science we start with something like On the Origin of the Species and change it so that it conforms with reality.

No one has seen evolution in action, people do bring up the argument that things evovlve certain abilities and i do not deny that but the fact is that a monkey has never evolved into a fish.


Yes, we have. Over the course of millions and millions of years, creatures have been changing.

Furthermore, we’ve actually recently observed bacteria evolving from one species to another. They shifted from consuming glucose to consuming citrate (which is not something e.coli does, ever) in very controlled circumstances – the professor running the experiment has frozen “backups” of the bacteria back through the last 20 years, and they’re working on figuring out exactly where, when and how this literally species shifting change happened.

In essence, we have a frozen timeline of a strain of bacteria evolving into a new species.

No noodly appendages are in evidence.

 
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There’s also a small, less believed theory that God (or a large essence) created evolution.

Yes, that is my belief also.

If there was a God then why would he punish people who haven’t been born yet seemingly at random.

God does not punish them. People with disabilities got it from their parents through Genetics.

Just to clear another thing up; I don’t believe that God is all-knowing or all-controlling. God cannot be perfect, it’s an impossiblility. To be perfect, he would have to be perfect at not being perfect, which is impossible. Since this is an axinom thread (I think,) I will not continue. I just wanted to clear some things up before the “God isn’t perfect” comments started rushing in.

 
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There are far better examples than bacteria.

Short online list
Literature references

 
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There are far better examples than bacteria.

Perhaps, but those other examples are easy enough to dismiss as sort of the equivalent of Elvis sightings. The bacteria example I pointed to is like a movie of speciation that can be played over and over again, by anyone who wants to bother with it.

 
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Anyone who has been vaccinated is benefiting from the discoveries from evolution. If you choose not to believe in evolution, do us all a favor and don’t bother getting vaccinated.

 
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I’m so pissed off. Yet another thread in which a believer can make followers of science bash down religion in general while both are completely unnecessary and it takes a dozen pages to get back on track.

I’m also a believer of the “evolution due to creation” statement. I don’t want to state all kind of arguments any more, just read through one of the other threads that have anything to do with religion. All I can say is that I don’t think there needs to be an evolution versus creation thread. There is no “versus” in my view (and apparently not for some others either).

 
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I’m so pissed off. Yet another thread in which a believer can make followers of science bash down religion in general while both are completely unnecessary and it takes a dozen pages to get back on track.

Is this directed at me?

 
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No, there doesn’t need to be one. But there can be one. There is one. You do not have to participate in one.

 
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Is this at me?

No.

No, there doesn’t need to be one. But there can be one. There is one. You do not have to participate in one.

There are dozens, this one only borders what many have already been discussing. It would only force me to repeat the posts I already made.

 
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There are dozens, this one only borders what many have already been discussing. It would only force me to repeat the posts I already made.

Yeah, it’s very annoying.

 
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I’m so pissed off. Yet another thread in which a believer can make followers of science bash down religion in general while both are completely unnecessary and it takes a dozen pages to get back on track.

There are really to many of these science-religion threads that just eventually turn into plain, old blows to the others’ beliefs rather than an actual discussion or civilized argument.

 
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I’m so pissed off. Yet another thread in which a believer can make followers of science bash down religion in general while both are completely unnecessary and it takes a dozen pages to get back on track.

I understand your point of view. I also wish that the two ideas would not conflict.

But in reality, this issue has come up. For example, in American schools, creationism is pushed to be taught alongside evolution. This is very unscientific and unreasonable, which is why threads like this are created.

 
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No one has seen evolution in action, people do bring up the argument that things evovlve certain abilities and i do not deny that but the fact is that a monkey has never evolved into a fish.

I recently read an article in the February 2009 issue of the National Geographic on Darwin and evolution. If I can find an online version of it I’ll link it, but it basically says that animal evolution has in fact been observed in fish and birds over the course of a few years. Apparently, Darwin was wrong in his belief that evolution could only happen over large spans of time; it can happen in some cases in a decade. I think it depends on the lifespan and reproductive habits of the animals though.

However it exactly works, it is very important for evolutionists and the theory itself.

I’m so pissed off. Yet another thread in which a believer can make followers of science bash down religion in general while both are completely unnecessary and it takes a dozen pages to get back on track.

The problem is, every single thread related to religion is eventually going to boil down to a ‘God vs No-God’ argument. I know I’m guilty of assisting that on more than one occasion. I was looking for one of these threads though, if only to point out the interesting article I read.

EDIT:

Found the article. The observed evolution part begins on the third page.

Modern Darwins

 
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But in reality, this issue has come up. For example, in American schools, creationism is pushed to be taught alongside evolution. This is very unscientific and unreasonable, which is why threads like this are created.

I honestly don’t understand why they don’t take a middle ground and say God created evolution. Then they can go on with things as usual like any normal teacher.

I don’t understand why people need to take such extremes rather than understanding and tolerating the beliefs of others, and understanding this battle is one that, though has lasted a long time, is an argument that one is forced to take a side which they would have to defend many things that aren’t necessary to it. Religion vs. science is something that always ticks me off, because people often don’t seem to understand that dual explanations aren’t the only way to make peace.