Evolution vs. Creation page 2

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I honestly don’t understand why they don’t take a middle ground and say God created evolution. Then they can go on with things as usual like any normal teacher.

Why can’t both be taught? I was taught both; Evolution, the scientific theory, was taught in science; Creationism, the religious theory, was taught as part of religious education. Works fine for me – people are taught both theories and can make up their own mind.

 
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Creationism is totally wrong. There is no part of it that is based on logic, evidence or any sort of rational thought. It is complete rubbish.

 
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This is coming from a man who chooses not to look at any evidence given to him.

 
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This is coming from a man who chooses not to look at any evidence given to him.

Outside of the Bible, there isn’t any, merely gaps in the fossil record (which mean that we just haven’t found a fossil of that kind yet) and the debunked idea of irreducible complexity.

 
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There’s also the fact that nothing comes from nothing.

I was referring to the point that I’ve suggested several books and articles to him.

 
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There’s also the fact that nothing comes from nothing.

Which is perfectly true. When there is nothing. Of course when there is something, then something can come from it. I pretty sure Saint Ajora or someone posted a load of links about this sort of thing once…

But anyways, this is going off topic.

 
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Is someone claiming that a minor hole in the Big Bang Theory means Evolution is wrong?

 
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A minor hole?

I’m fairly certain it isn’t minor.

 
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No, it’s pretty minor. It doesn’t at all disprove the theory – it’s just something the theory doesn’t yet explain. Hence, minor.

And even if the Big Bang Theory was complete bollocks, it wouldn’t affect the validity of evolution.

 
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I think the fact that nothing comes from nothing would disprove the theory that something comes from nothing. Just a humble opinion.

I’m curious, how do evolutionists who don’t believe in the Big Bang believe the universe began? I’m honestly curious.

 
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Firstly, that’s an ad hominem fallacy. Whatever you think about me has nothing to do with the validity of creationism. Secondly, you still haven’t addressed my points about all the flaws in the bible which you maintain don’t exist, so I don’t feel obligated to read any of your propaganda. Thirdly, whether you believe in god or not, the problems of beginning don’t disappear. Either you believe god came from nothing or she always existed, and either way, you cannot prove this is also possible for the universe, and since god will always be another step, Ockhams razor will always say the universe without god is more likely than the universe with god.

 
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What are the flaws of the Bible? I’m curious.

 
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I’m curious, how do evolutionists who don’t believe in the Big Bang believe the universe began? I’m honestly curious.

I expect there are people who believe that ‘a god’ created the universe out of nothing, then either disappeared or simply observes and doesn’t interfere with his creation.

This is basically just personifying the Big Bang though so it doesn’t really help. Just says ‘God happened’ instead of ‘something happened but we don’t know what it was yet’. God of the gaps once again.

 
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You are either being deliberately obstinate or have a 3 month memory. Either way I’m not going into this with you again, not when I have a life to lead. People like you make me not want to discuss these things anymore. A curious mind would use google, you are not curious, you are a true believer, and probably always will be.

 
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A curious mind would use google, you are not curious, you are a true believer, and probably always will be.

Funny, I could say the same thing about you.

 
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PFB, you should really understand that it can get pretty frustrating when you ask stuff like ‘where are the flaws in the bible?’ when there are many threads going back months where the points have been presented to you time after time. As well as constantly using the Big Bang as an argument against evolution when it really has no relevance to the topic. Evolutionary theory doesn’t mention the big bang at all, it is solely interested in how lifeforms change over time.

 
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Originally posted by Pink_Fuzzy_Bunny:

What are the flaws of the Bible? I’m curious.

List of Bible Inconsistencies

 
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I think the fact that nothing comes from nothing would disprove the theory that something comes from nothing. Just a humble opinion.

1. There is nothing to suggest that there was “nothing” before the Big Bang.
2. “Nothing comes from Nothing” isn’t a “fact” in any way, shape or form. Matter can come from non-matter, after all.
3. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with evolution.

 
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There’s also a small, less believed theory that God (or a large essence) created evolution.

What? I’d say that’s the most common belief amongst modern Christians. Creationists are a confused minority.

There is evidence in science: people have discovered things that further prove (although of course, it may not be true) evolution, and it’s a pretty solid theory. However, there is no proof I can think of in Christianity. People may say “Oh, the Bible, duh, you moron” or something similar, but the fact is that is not proof. The Bible was quite obviously written by men who had their own beliefs and wished to spread them. Besides that “proof” there is nothing.

Awesome post. It pretty much covers everything. Evolution, like my theory that I am currently sitting in front of my computer could be false, but it’s a statistical likelihood because the evidence for it is huge and the evidence against it… well, we haven’t found any, despite the fact that many pseudo-scientists continue to try.

No one has seen evolution in action, people do bring up the argument that things evolve certain abilities and i do not deny that but the fact is that a monkey has never evolved into a fish. It might evolve new characteristics but it will still be a monkey.

Idiocy. Check your facts. We have been over this dozens of times. We can see evolution in action, and you clearly have no grasp of the time frame of processes involved. How can you presume to make a statement on a subject you clearly know next to nothing about?

It doesn’t have the same connotations coming from someone of the same race, I guess. There is an existing thread around here for this discussion, if you want to debate it further.

They are being racist by even recognising another person as being from the ‘same race’.

But in reality, this issue has come up. For example, in American schools, creationism is pushed to be taught alongside evolution. This is very unscientific and unreasonable, which is why threads like this are created.

Yes, this is terrifying in an allegedly modern, civilised country. Religion should be kept out of schools entirely. I am not against religion as a whole, but force-feeding it to children is unethical. And any so-called academic who thinks that evolution and creation can stand up against each other in a science class is plain deluded.

I honestly don’t understand why they don’t take a middle ground and say God created evolution. Then they can go on with things as usual like any normal teacher.

A science teacher should deal with science and leave their religious beliefs at home. Bringing such opinions into contact with impressionable minds is tantamount to discrimination and unethical coercion.

This is coming from a man who chooses not to look at any evidence given to him.

Ha! PfB said this.

bq.There’s also the fact that nothing comes from nothing.
bq.Which is perfectly true. When there is nothing. Of course when there is something, then something can come from it. I pretty sure Saint Ajora or someone posted a load of links about this sort of thing once…
But anyways, this is going off topic.

No, this is not true. As a physics graduate I have to set this right. Matter can and does come into existence from nothing. Most of the time it is ‘given back’ immediately but not always.

I think the fact that nothing comes from nothing would disprove the theory that something comes from nothing. Just a humble opinion.

But we know that things can, and it really is a minor problem anyway, since a natural solution is more likely than a supernatural one. Even if we never figure it out, we’re just little piles of meat, why should we? It’s no reason to start postulating superbeings. And you must answer this question: How can you use this as an argument against science, when you cannot provide a sensible answer to the question “where did god come from”?

What are the flaws of the Bible? I’m curious.

How long have you got? Not only does it contradict fact, it contradicts itself, it gives no evidence for it’s claims, most of it is of dubious origin, the original text has been tinkered with, it is merely one of many folk-tales about the creation of the world and doesn’t stand out as particularly special among them.

There are hundreds of flaws in the bible, but when people point them out to you, you just ignore them. That’s why you make people angry. You argue, but you have no arguments.

 
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Please explain how something can come from nothing.

I’m curious!

 
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Please explain how something can come from nothing.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/quentin_smith/uncaused.html

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/smith_18_2.html

What’s your explanation as to how God created the universe?

Or indeed how he came into being in the first place?

 
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I like Marh’s thing personally. I don’t think stuff just happened and there were people, evolution seems to have more evidence on it’s side. Like the coelecanth, for example, has LEG like FINS. Do you see the transition from land to sea there?

 
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I like Marh’s thing personally. I don’t think stuff just happened and there were people, evolution seems to have more evidence on it’s side. Like the coelecanth, for example, has LEG like FINS. Do you see the transition from land to sea there?

Oh yes, there are many examples like this. The key fact is that every creature is a transitional form. We all have vestigial parts which bely our ancestry. Evolution is, frankly, obvious. I think religious persecution is the only reason it took so long for us to discover it properly.

Please explain how something can come from nothing.

It’s rather complicated, conceptually, unless you are familiar with quantum physics; I did a google search and found this national geographic article which touches on the subject, even making reference to the big bang. It’s a start anyway; maybe I’ll dig out my university notes. It takes a few paragraphs to get going, by the way.

http://thenational.ae/article/20090112/FRONTIERS/275080543/1036/FRONTIERS

 
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Please explain how something can come from nothing. I’m curious

haha, this is venturing into dangerous territory: quantum physics. not dangerous because it’s scary, dangerous because it’s pretty ridiculously mind-boggling to the point that it can drive you crazy.

Here’s the theory as far as I know: Outside the universe, the laws of physics break down. The only governing factor is probability.

Outside the universe, there is a “quantum foam,” as scientists call it. No, it’s not literally a foam, but it helps to visualize. Here, space has no definite shape, just a set of improbable shapes.

From the quantum foam, universes arise. The mass and energy within the universe is balanced, because since there is no sense of time outside the universe, the universes appear and disappear instantaneously. Meaning that outside the universe, since there is no time, everything happens at once. So a mass can appear and disappear within no time at all, and the laws of conservation are obeyed. Yes, it is not likely that this will happen, but improbable things happen frequently.

I personally am too simple-minded to grasp this concept. And in no way is this totally 100% true, it’s just a hypothesis that quantum physics allows.

To summarize, “If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics.” – Richard Feynman

 
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Please explain how something can come from nothing.

How is this relevant?

This point has been gone over in almost every single thread regarding evolution, yet you always seem to disregard it:

Evolution does not depend on abiogenesis, the Big Bang, or any other scientific theory regarding the origins of life, or the universe in general.