Abortion as a birth control method?!?

56 posts

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I have told this before but I feel it warrants it’s own thread. People thought I was joking, but my sister is really messed up and she has ‘interesting’ values.

She sleeps around, has HIV and several more STD’s, and does not tell her partners nor does she use any birth control. Of course, the guys love this she says.

But here is where it goes south.. she has had 5 abortions so far. Why so many? She says she greatly prefers the sensations a man gives her without a condom vs. with a condom. So when she gets pregnant she just gets the abortion as early as she can. She openly talks about this and thinks she is doing nothing wrong.

Sadly, the place where she lives ( and where I live ) Madison, Wisconsin is a very liberal city where she can get free abortions at many places. They almost are too eager to hand out abortions here in one of the midwest’s liberal strongholds.

My offer of discussion is this: Do you think this is a valid method of ‘birth control’? Do you think society should freely pay for this? Should there be a cap on the number of abortions per woman in a set time to try to prevent this? Should women who sickly abuse abortion like this be forced by the state to become sterile?

I have given up on my sister years ago, yet I have to listen to her at family functions. She is a pathetic mess who has been given chance after chance after chance by every liberal help based and faith based group in the city. She horribly spends most of her time in bars picking up men for sex. ( don’t forget she has HIV ) She does not care who she infects and lies to the men. I suspect she is a whore who does this to get more drugs.

I wish murder was legal I would kill her. She is a walking biohazard and has given our mother heartache after heartache.

Discuss.

 
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Im pretty sure it’s illegal to knowingly spread HIV.

That aside, I think she’s dumb, and could use a number of birth control methods like the pill or nuva ring that would allow the man to go without wearing a condom and still significantly reduce the chance of getting pregnant to nearly nil.

Of course she has HIV, so I can’t recommend anyone having sex with her without a condom, so. Yeah.

 
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I might not be describing her very well. She is a meth head and looks sick, like Amy Whinehouse. She has given up on life and is just wasting away.. which is her right BUT she is infecting the men of Madison. She is causing untold number of heartaches.

 
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I think I recall a case where knowingly sleeping with somebody when you had HIV was classified as sexual assault… so there’s one problem right there.

 
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Wow. And I thought I had problems.

Have you tried sending her to rehab? She doesn’t seem to have much control over herself, (don’t mean to sound cruel) maybe the best place for her would be an Psychiatric hospital?

 
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The more abortions she has the less chance she’ll have of becoming pregnant again, so at least that’s a bonus…

 
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I’m sure we all know by now that Vanguarde is a troll and his posts are designed to provoke extreme reactions. He’s making stuff up here, which is surely obvious.

In any case, abortions used in this way is a rare problem, as most women who prefer sex without contraception use the pill, or at least the morning after pill.

 
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I am not lying. My sister has serious problems and I just openly talked about them from the heart. I don’t ‘design’ posts. You should put on your tinfoil hat – you are very paranoid mask_and_mirror. Also, if you keep attacking me personally in threads accusing me of being a troll, I will have a talk with the mods about it. You are stalking and harassing me.

Now that that is over with, back to the topic.

My sister has been in and out of rehab countless times. She does not have any mental illness which is the very sad part of this. Most of my family have mental illness of varying degrees. She does not, yet has chosen to totally waste her life. When I confront her on how she is abusing her body and needs help she yells ‘it is MY life – leave me alone’ and ‘why do you and others feel I WANT help – I don’t’.

I am 31, and she is a tad younger. But she looks like she is in her late 40’s due to the meth. She has the ‘meth teeth’ going as well. What kind of stupid guy would want to have sex with her, even if you are paying her?

If I showed you her high school picture and her now you would be SHOCKED.

My family and I wish we could find her boyfriend that got her into this mess. Her choice in men when she was young was black men. My mom hated this due to the fact she was racist. She said ’ I did not think I was racist – until I saw a black man with my baby’. Wonderful..

This dude abused her and trained her to enjoy it, gave her drugs and probably the HIV. He was a typical black thug. My sister also ‘dated’ white trash, but not asians because quote: their houses smell funny ; end quote.

How I managed to be so normal coming from this family is amazing.

Anyway, to sum this post up: mask_and_mirror back off dude I am asking you politely, and ANY suggestions on how to help my sister only for my moms sake would be more than welcome.

I am honestly thinking about getting her arrested because she always carries drugs on her and if I could tie in the infecting men on purpose ( to get back at men ) thing she does she will be put away for a long time and not be a biohazard to society.

 
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If this was the first time, I might believe you.

But I’ll lay off this time. Toodle-pip

x

 
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Im pretty sure it’s illegal to knowingly spread HIV.

It is.

As for your sister, this is serious stuff. Polls (of which I have no links) do show that women prefer intercourse without a condom. As I am a dude, I wouldn’t notice a difference. LOL. The point is, as I’m assuming your sister may think, some women don’t use oral contraceptives because of some strange illness they think they can attract.
If you are serious about helping her, tell the police. That bit about the STD’s is very serious. While it isn’t illegal to slum at a bar and pick up one-nighters, it is illegal to knowingly spread disease. Make sure the police know that she does know of her STD’s. They would have to make her take a test, and while they’re at it… that Meth may just show up.

 
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How I managed to be so normal coming from this family is amazing.

Way to disprove both nature and nurture at the same time. ;)

Anyway, I agree with ion. Your sister should be in jail for assault with a deadly weapon, or at least reckless endangerment.

Back on topic – if we’re going to consider abortion to be entirely legal and morally sound, then, as much as it personally disturbs me, I see no reason that we should say it can’t be a regular form of birth control. It’s stupid to do so, but I have a hard time finding justification to say no to it. As for the state paying, I’d rather pay for the abortion than for the years of medicaid, WIC, therapy, and jail time for the unwanted, neglected, and abused child.

If on the other hand we see abortion as a “mercy killing” and a necessary evil, then no, of course we shouldn’t use it as regular birth control. There are far safer and more humane ways to deal with things. Personally, I think any woman who gets a state-funded abortion, as well as every woman who’s on medicaid or WIC, should have to get an IUD or Depo shots, and get regular check-ups to verify it is still active. I have no problem with temporary, forced sterilization for anyone who is taking tax-payer money because they can’t keep their pants on and can’t afford the results.

 
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I don’t know why you guys are humoring this obvious well poisoning.

My sister is bad.
Therefore anything she does is bad.
My sister has abortions.

Thus abortions are bad.

and

My sister is bad.
Therefore anything she does is bad.
My sister gets helped by ‘liberals’.

Thus liberals are bad.

Discuss.

The only thing to be said here is that in the slim chance this is real, you should alert the authorities. Knowingly exposing someone to HIV is a class D felony (State of Missouri, Respondent, v. Sean L. Sykes, Appellant.) If you don’t report this behavior you could be charged with misprision of felony (18 U.S.C. § 4).

 
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If I showed you her high school picture and her now you would be SHOCKED.

Please do this. I’m pretty sure it will prove to the others that you are telling the truth. Till you prove that anything you’ve said about your sister, I’m going to assume you are making everything up once again.

Refer to Saint’s post above the “Discuss” part.

 
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w00t – the law library gets whipped out. Yikes – you you’re actually potentially committing a crime by not turning her in. That’s some food for thought right there, but makes sense. If you knew someone who was regularly going around and stabbing people, you should turn them in as well. This is pretty much the same thing.

As for well poisoning, I dunno. While he opens up with lots of background information that could skew the discussion, I think the point is there, and there are certainly some people who do use abortion as a form of birth control, as disturbing as it is.

Kasha – pics prove nothing, and it’s relatively irrelevant. The backstory he provided was just a setting for the question. The question stands whether or not his sister is real.

 
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So then should we turn this thread from Van’s emotional appeal to a debate about whether or not abortion as a form of birth control should be prevented?

Obviously it should. Perhaps a limit of 2 abortions, with more possible if the child will possibly be dangerously deformed, or in some way have it’s life endangered after birth due to medical reasons. There are inexpensive contraceptives that work much more efficiently than abortions, and the mental anguish is no longer a problem.

By the way Van, your sister DOES have a mental problem, as she’s:
A. Knowingly infecting people with a deadly virus.
B. Probably addicted to a few drugs.
C. Had many abortions. Abortions generally have a profound mental affect on people, and your sister seems to be unaffected by them.

That’s of course assuming you are telling the truth about anything.

Phoenix – The backstory was relatively irrelevant, and he’s been building on it in every post trying to elicit some kind of emotional appeal. The discussion is fine, but Van’s attempt to get support for his side through outrageous backstory is not. What’s wrong with asking a question and linking to a news article or something?

 
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Knowingly exposing someone to a risk of infecting them with a serious STD which they don’t know about makes the infector liable for assault charges (physical, not sexual, assault that is) if the STD is transmitted; they may have consented to sex but they haven’t consented to infection. Consent to serious harm isn’t often legally valid anyway.

I’m absolutely fine with early abortion being used as an alternative form of birth control. Having an abortion isn’t like waving a magic wand to make a pregnancy go away however, like any form of birth control it has its own risks and disadvantages to the mother.

 
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Also, I don’t think Van is trolling.

I recall him posting this some time back, and, frankly, his sister is the first person I think of now when I hear “abortion”.

 
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his sister is the first person I think of now when I hear “abortion”.

Then I guess he’s achieved his aim.

 
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Should women who sickly abuse abortion like this be forced by the state to become sterile?

The state or government should not decide what is acceptable! She should use the morning after pill. The less power the state and federal governements have over your body the better!

 
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Ah, persuasion is a harsh mistress indeed.

 
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I don’t get Vanguarde’s line of reasoning. Just because someone takes advantage of the system by getting pregnant and getting tons of abortions means that the whole abortion system is faulted. The problem is your sister, who I am assuming is a figment of someone’s imagination.

 
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I am not against abortion in cases of rape, incest, or even inability to care for the baby. What I find disgusting is how she is using abortion AS birth control. Don’t you all find that upsetting? Even a little?

Why is she doing it this was instead of birth control pills? Even fully pro-abortion people have to have a little problem with using abortion like this, no?

Remember the law where you could turn in your unwanted child with no questions asked… but they stupidly allowed kids up to 18 to be turned in? How people abused that good service by turning in 15, 17, 16 year old kids? They quickly changed the law because it was being ABUSED.

This is what I am trying say about how my sister is abusing abortions.
I never said the entire system is flawed. In most cases abortion is ok to me.

To Kasha: She has no diagnosed mental illness like my mother and I have. She refuses to get help since she gets violently angry when we suggest she needs help due to a possible mental illness. She is addicted to drugs. We KNOW she has used Cocaine and Heroin, and we strongly suspect she is using Meth. We have no clue if the abortions have affected her mentally. She has been unstable for so long it is hard to pick out any new event that might have changed her behavior.

I do know she is on a first name basis with the nurse she contacts when she gets pregnant. ( how do I know this? She talks her up all the time as being nice and caring to her )

I used the term liberals because we live in a liberal town! Do you really think republicans are doing abortions in Madison, Wi?!? lol I am democrat, but NOT hardcore liberal. There is a difference !

In the end I just wish people would stop making accusations about me based on what I write in DIFFERENT threads. I have different feelings AND values depending on the TOPIC.

Just because I say I don’t like abortions when discussing an aspect of them in another thread does not mean I support different aspects of it.

Also please, I am into satire. It says so on my bio. Sometimes my satire is so forceful it might come off as insulting. I am not here to personally insult people. No one should be. I am here to talk about cutting edge serious discussions. Like this thread. How many of you heard about abortions being used like this? Not many I guess.

I am sharing a huge part of my family past and present and I get attacked and claims I lie. I am a self admitted negative person, and when you mix in the sarcastic satire I can see why people would start to dislike me a little. Please don’t take anything personal! I am also NOT racist – but my satire can be. Just like how the ONIONS writers write things blatantly offensive yet I am sure they don’t think that way in day to day life..

Thanks for your time

- Mike

 
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Also please, I am into satire. It says so on my bio. Sometimes my satire is so forceful it might come off as insulting.

Honestly, what you’ve been doing is more trolling than satire. You’re not being funny, witty, or particularly interesting. It doesn’t matter what you mean, your random “satirical” comments end up just being irritating.

Furthermore, since you have admitted to be trying to have a “satirical” bent, it seems like this thread is entirely likely to be your attempt at satire. It’s not quite (it honestly resembles a troll more than anything else) but I could see how someone who doesn’t really understand the concept of satire would think that this is a good satirical thread.

If you are going to lie in your ordinary posts (as you have admitted), then don’t expect us to believe you when you tell the extraordinary truth.

Anyway, back on topic:

Abortion is legal. Abortion*s* are legal. There is no law that says you may not have more than N abortions. There is no reason for there to be a law, because if one abortion is legal and ethical, then twenty are. This is not to say that a woman who has frequent abortions is acting normally; there’s nothing wrong with the act(s), even though they might indicate there is something wrong with the person performing them.

For instance, there’s nothing wrong with washing your hands; however, washing your hands fifty times a day might be a sign of OCD (or medical school). To extend the metaphor, washing your hands too frequently (even though it is a fine and legal thing to do) will lead to damage to your hands – just like having too many abortions will lead to sterility.

Furthermore, there is no one to counsel your sister to stop having so many goddamn abortions, because (as you said), she keeps on going to different clinics to get free ones. They probably wouldn’t be offering her free abortions if they knew her history. This is not a failure of the system; this is your sister specifically circumventing it. That nurse who counsels her as to where to go is just enabling this, not being a friend – not that your sister would believe that, of course.

 
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I am not against abortion in cases of rape, incest, or even inability to care for the baby. What I find disgusting is how she is using abortion AS birth control.

Even in those cases it is a form of ‘birth control’. To take your hypothetical situation, she clearly has an inability to properly care for a child. Would you rather she raised a child with that attitude of hers?

Why is she doing it this was instead of birth control pills? Even fully pro-abortion people have to have a little problem with using abortion like this, no?

Based on the information, I think your sister needs serious professional help. That being said, I would not blame the procedure, but the person. If someone is addicted to drugs and wants to stop the best way is to focus on the person, not go off on a crusade against drugs.

Remember the law where you could turn in your unwanted child with no questions asked… but they stupidly allowed kids up to 18 to be turned in? How people abused that good service by turning in 15, 17, 16 year old kids? They quickly changed the law because it was being ABUSED.

I would be more curious as to the conditions that caused the parents to drop off an older child like that. There would have been some significant issues to cause such an event to happen, so it might honestly be for the best that those children were given to the care of the state. Anyway this is a bit of a red herring.

She has no diagnosed mental illness like my mother and I have.

The only reason for this would be she has not seen a psychologist or psychiatrist. Though the information here is limited, based on what you said I can think of a few that would easily fit to her.

Just because I say I don’t like abortions when discussing an aspect of them in another thread does not mean I support different aspects of it.

Then don’t poison the well. Better to start off “I think that in some situations abortion should be under closer scrutiny because…”; when in doubt, place the subject first.

I am sharing a huge part of my family past and present and I get attacked and claims I lie.

Well, unusual cases will always illicit such questions. Just treat it as a hypothetical.

 
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Whether or not Vanguarde HAS this sister or not doesn’t play much into the discussion that has risen from it. He could have very well started the thread with “What if”… and it would have been just as powerful. Personally, I think Vanguarde has kind of let up for something as serious as this.
Once again, Phoenix, you’ve astounded me with your tomes of knowledge. And I absolutely agree with your view on artificial sterilization. There is a family no more than four houses down from me. While I can’t prove they are milking the system, the signs are too noticeable. 6 children; each about 2 years apart form each other. each one uses the prior child’s clothing so the family doesn’t need to buy new clothes for each child. Burger King and McDonald’s 4 out of 7 nights. Not a very healthy looking house (not to mention they haven’t done anything to it in years) The icing on the cake, as I see it, is the fully loaded, customized Mercedes-Benz SUV they have parked next to the house. Coincidence? Or is my stereotyping just getting in the way?