Who side are you on? ARABS or ISRAEL page 17

Would be the current demographic lay out. I’m all for an expansion of Palestine following the adoption of a more moderate government. The arab population accounts for about 20% of the Israeli-Palestinian area, the current map certainly does not reflect that. That is of course assuming that the entire arab population wants full autonomy. The Druze are a good example of an Islamic people and faith living contently under the Israeli state – there are numerous memorials honouring their contribution both in and out of wartime.

About 25% of the 7,6 million Israeli citizens are not Jewish. And this does account for the nearly 4 million palestinians who live in the occupied territory and it also does not account for palestinian Refugees living in refugee camps in neighboring countries.

Originally posted by 2032:

I frankly think both groups are misbehaving so badly, that they BOTH do not deserve the land.

I suggest we give the land to Ireland.

I second this post, namely because England is trying to take Irish land again points at north Ireland

That Whole Country Will end up a Giant Sheet of Glass within the next 20 Years.

Originally posted by Cdavid2950:

That Whole Country Will end up a Giant Sheet of Glass within the next 20 Years.

Why the hell cant they just live together, im an irish american, i live next to a pollish man, an italian, and an arab muslim, why does everyone need to be racist

Originally posted by shaunsred:

Originally posted by Cdavid2950:

That Whole Country Will end up a Giant Sheet of Glass within the next 20 Years.

Why the hell cant they just live together, im an irish american, i live next to a pollish man, an italian, and an arab muslim, why does everyone need to be racist

I know, its sad, but it’s just how some poeple are.

Originally posted by Cdavid2950:

Originally posted by shaunsred:

Originally posted by Cdavid2950:

That Whole Country Will end up a Giant Sheet of Glass within the next 20 Years.

Why the hell cant they just live together, im an irish american, i live next to a pollish man, an italian, and an arab muslim, why does everyone need to be racist

I know, its sad, but it’s just how some poeple are.

Tell me about it.

About 25% of the 7,6 million Israeli citizens are not Jewish. And this does account for the nearly 4 million palestinians who live in the occupied territory and it also does not account for palestinian Refugees living in refugee camps in neighboring countries.

Was going off a Wiki page. I thought it stated it included contested territories, but perhaps it did not.
Checked the CIA World Fact Book, cross referenced another page, seems with all land considered it’s about 50-50.

CIA world factbook, Israel at about 7.3 million people with 76% jewish. This does not include the contested Palestinian territories. ( 5.7 million jews, 1.7 million arabs. )
Westbank was 2.5 million people. 83% arab and other. 17% jewish. ( 0.4 million jews 2.1 million arabs. Net, 6.1 million jews to 3.8 million arabs. )
Gaza Strip. 1.6 million. according to CIA factbook, 100% arab. ( Net 6.1 million jews to 5.4 million arabs )
Worth noting CIA Factbook says its number for contested Palestinian territories is under review. But this is pretty combarable to what else I could find.

and ProCon.
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000636 puts it at about 50-50.

As for the millions of extranational Palestinian refugees, if you have some sources on that I’ll take a look at them.

Originally posted by Ungeziefer:

About 25% of the 7,6 million Israeli citizens are not Jewish. And this does account for the nearly 4 million palestinians who live in the occupied territory and it also does not account for palestinian Refugees living in refugee camps in neighboring countries.

Was going off a Wiki page. I thought it stated it included contested territories, but perhaps it did not.
Checked the CIA World Fact Book, cross referenced another page, seems with all land considered it’s about 50-50.

CIA world factbook, Israel at about 7.3 million people with 76% jewish. This does not include the contested Palestinian territories. ( 5.7 million jews, 1.7 million arabs. )
Westbank was 2.5 million people. 83% arab and other. 17% jewish. ( 0.4 million jews 2.1 million arabs. Net, 6.1 million jews to 3.8 million arabs. )
Gaza Strip. 1.6 million. according to CIA factbook, 100% arab. ( Net 6.1 million jews to 5.4 million arabs )
Worth noting CIA Factbook says its number for contested Palestinian territories is under review. But this is pretty combarable to what else I could find.

and ProCon.
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000636 puts it at about 50-50.

As for the millions of extranational Palestinian refugees, if you have some sources on that I’ll take a look at them.

Here a Wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee#Refugee_statistics

The numbers should be taken with a lot of Salt. A reason why i did not say there were millions of them. It all depends on what definition of refugee you use(for example do children of refugees count as refugees them self).

Also i i would like to point out that the 0,4 million jewish people that live in the occupied Territories are Israeli settlers who are also accounted for in the 7.3 million people that are given for living in Israel.
The reason for that being that the number given for Israel counts all Israeli Citizens who live in Israel and the occupied Territories while the Number for occupied territory accounts for all people living in the occupied territory.

The problem is that Israel “Demands its rights” in a very “Peaceful” Way, you know, like attacking Human Aid Ships, doing massacres, ethnic cleansing and a lot of “full of democracy and peace” ways to reclaim “their” land, they even attack Human Aid Ships from foreign countries, well European ones, wow, so suddenly everything they do is for peace?? Suddenly we Arabs and Muslims are monsters? Al Aqsa Mosque burned and Muslims praying killed by some mad Jew named Baruch Goldstein, this is not peace, and when they kill children and innocents and use forbidden weapons, wow such a peace, and Christians support Israel although in an Israeli TV they mocked Jesus and Mary (Peace Be Upon them). If you’re gonna start the majority and minority thing, then do it and watch innocents die. Supporting Israel is supporting mad, crazy and racist people who don’t respect a religion. So ofcourse I’m with the Arabs, I’m with my people.

regarding the expansion of Israel…it tends to happen when Middle Eastern countries attack it. I’m not a fan of either side. Israel is very non-progressive on foreign policy, but it’s not like the surrounding countries are giving them a reason to either. And when some big event happens, it shows how both sides have some sort of wrongdoing. Like the aid ships from Turkey—everyone got pissed until they found out they broke a naval blockade and then the aid ship people started the violence. But why does Israel not have some sort of “search and approve” on aid ships?

Karambat: Once again I will state that so long as you continue painting the Israelites as demons in human flesh, and the Israelites continue to paint you as demons in human flesh, absolutely no progress towards resolution will be made.

It will require individuals on both sides to try to bridge the divide, before you will see anything other than a literally unending spiral of hatred and war.

But why does Israel not have some sort of “search and approve” on aid ships?

Israel does, which they administer at various ports along Israel. The aid convoy in question did not want to go the designated port for search and approval, but to break the blockade and head directly to a port at Gaza.

I’m with none of them.
They are free to do what ever they want.Just know that what some important people think,it’s not necessary what other people of their country thinks.

VikaTae, you’re not an Arab to understand what they did to us, many Israeli officials talked about us in a disgusting and racist way, I as a Palestinian is living in a country other than mine, which makes me really sad, when my friends visit their countries, and I don’t, that affects me, Israel isn’t demanding its right in a way that would satisfy all countries, YOU can’t deny what they did, I know we did lots of bad things, maybe these bad things wouldn’t have happened if Israel wasn’t established, and ofcourse we were already made of Britain, Italy, France, Spain etc. for occupying us, Algeria became the country of MILLION Martyrs, Bravo Europe, such a continent, stop accusing us ha? And try to look at the side with the worst behavior. Oh, also I forgot to say how Israel is trying to spread Fitna between HezbAllah and the other Arabs, which is failing miserably, another dirty tactic failing.

If I’m reading you right Karambat, what you are saying boils down to:

“I hate them, I hate all of them. Why should I stop hating them, unless they stop hating me first? I’m not going to stop hating them until they beg forgiveness, every single one of them.”

Which if as accurate as I suspect, illustrates the problem quite nicely: Both sides have plenty of individuals like you, who refuse to stop escalating matters until the other side backs down first.

Irresistible force, meet the immovable object.

Someone has to give, to bend in the wind or both sides break. It takes a strong mind to seek compromise in the face of unyielding hatred. Are you strong enough?

Or will the unending cycle of hatred continue?

I resent this:

“I hate them, I hate all of them. Why should I stop hating them, unless they stop hating me first? I’m not going to stop hating them until they beg forgiveness, every single one of them.” </bq.>

Anyone not subjected to the kind of oppression has no idea how bad it is on the receiving end. Its never easy dealing with Israel on territorial issues. Well I’m neutral as long as I’m not between them. Any Israelis commenting here?

Quite honestly, they both suck.

I don’t see much difference between any group in that hellhole. If Palestine was in Israel’s place, you don’t honestly think they would do the same, do you?
Israel has been the target of all of the middle east since I can remember, if they’re taking over Palestine land, it won’t be too long before everyone teams up on them again, just like the Six Day War.

And Karambat, Arabic people are just as bad as Israeli people, don’t try to play the victim here.

Originally posted by Karambat:

Lol Slasher, so you think Israel is peaceful because your friend lives there? Israel is very peaceful, attacking human aid ships and using forbidden weapons, ethnic cleansing, wow dude, really what a peaceful country, and suddenly everyone commented how I didn’t understand Ungez, but now I got it, so suddenly we are guilty for hating America and Israel ha, how about the racist quotes that Israeli officials said?? Well Israel and America do not love us, that balances the equation, and bythemark, stick to the topic, because you’re the one who seems stupid accusing others, just stick to the damn topic.

You think Arab countries are peaceful? Laying out IEDs, blowing up buildings, and decapitating US soldiers?
At least Israel has a reason, they’re the target of every other country in the Middle East.

EDIT Sorry for the double post

Well why do the USA butt into the worlds affairs. Thats the reason for 911. I Agree with land conquest because you may be killing but you also just healed your nation by giving them more room and food. But the usa cant admit they but in they just act like they are world is theirs and they have no boundries

Originally posted by bythemark:

regarding the expansion of Israel…it tends to happen when Middle Eastern countries attack it. I’m not a fan of either side. Israel is very non-progressive on foreign policy, but it’s not like the surrounding countries are giving them a reason to either. And when some big event happens, it shows how both sides have some sort of wrongdoing. Like the aid ships from Turkey—everyone got pissed until they found out they broke a naval blockade and then the aid ship people started the violence. But why does Israel not have some sort of “search and approve” on aid ships?

1. Israel expansion does not happen only when Middle Eastern countries attack it.
Wars Israel started:
Suez War 1956
6-Day War 1967
First Lebanon War 1982
2nd Lebanon War 2006
Wars started against Israel were:
Arabian-Israel War 1948 and Jom Kippur War 1973.

Undoubtedly there were some provocations done before those Wars Israel started by opposing countries or terrorist Organizations based in those countries, but the fact remains that Israel started these wars as an Aggressor. And provocations are an Daily routine on both sides(Israel has no respect for the borders of its Neighbors, regularly violating them in search of Terrorists or just routine Air-patrols.

To the ships from Turkey. They did not break an Naval Blockade, at least not an legal one(they were in International Waters at the time and for Blockades to be Legal in International Waters there must be a War going on, which was not the case). Seeing on how the Ships were boarded i fail to see how one can claim that the ship people started the violence. It was Daybreak Military Raid without prior warning, with shots already being Fired before the first Soldier set foot on the ships(these shots being verified as teargas grenades, that were fired to secure the landing area).

Israel does not have search and approve on aid Ships, because it would lose much of its control over the Supply that flows into and out of Gaza. The blockade is not about Weapons, but over control. As Ungeziefer said Aidships are free to visit Israeli Ports, but the supplies most be unloaded there and brought to Gaza overland after they are checked and when and if it pleases the Israeli bureaucrats. There is no list of Banned goods but instead a short list of classes of goods that are allowed and the amount is limited, and if a good is considered as part of the allowed classes greatly depends on how good a day the various Inspectors/Bureaucrats in Charge have had so far.

Don’t forget to add, Israel is building in the West Bank again.

They’ll keep building in the West Bank until there’s no more West Bank to be had. This is the problem with the level of hatred that’s built up. It has inspired bullish reactions in one, and quite probably both, sides.

Palestine.