AIG bonuses and more

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A quick recap for those of you just tuning in:

The U.S. government has bailed out insurance company AIG to the tune of $170 billion so far. Last Friday, AIG announced that they would be granting bonuses totaling $160 million to company employees – many of the same people who ran the company into the ground. Without the bailout, there would be no money for bonuses, as the company would be bankrupt.

Company executives say the employees were granted the bonuses before the bailout money was received, and that they have contracts that must be honored. Otherwise, the employees will sue and win.

Obama, Geitner, Bernanke are all furious. Obama instructed Geitner today to do everything possible to avoid paying the bonuses. It seems a little late now. They should have worked all that out before providing bailout money.

That said, heads should roll, lawsuits should be filed and the new sheriff in town should laying down the law (IMO, of course). A RICO (racketeering act) counter suit might be in order.

But that’s only part of the story. Big chunks of AIG bailout money was used to pay off the bad bets (err… derivative contracts) that AIG made and lost. It turns out the biggest payout AIG made, $12 billion, was to Goldman Sachs, which just happens to be former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson’s old firm.

This amounts to a “stealth bailout” of Goldman Sachs, among others, and they will never have to repay the money.

The way it looks now, thieves on Wall Street will be walking away with billions, and we’ll be paying off this debt with our taxes, as will our children, our grandchildren, and probably our great grandchildren.

 
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It’s a disgrace really. Clauses should have been added to the bailout stating any bank with public money can’t give out X amount of money in bonuses. It’s just a shame the government can’t do anything about it legally.

 
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Humans are bound by selfishness, and can you honestly blame them? What would you do if you’re given the option:

A) One million dollars (example).
B) Nothing.

You would choose A, unless avoiding the personal costs of getting that one million dollars is worth more than the million dollars themself.

But I think this shouldn’t be blamed on those walking away with millions any way. It should be blamed on those who even made those rules.

 
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Humans are bound by selfishness, and can you honestly blame them?

Some bankers have refused their bonuses, and rightly so. Morality should play a bigger part in making the descision, most bankers, sadly are greedy.

If these bankers hadn’t been so greedy, this crisis might not have begun in the first place. The least they can do is show some morals, and respect to the people whose money they have been gambling with.

 
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Some bankers have refused their bonuses, and rightly so. Morality should play a bigger part in making the descision, most bankers, sadly are greedy.

The cost of throwing away moral values is then deemed higher than the money they would receive for those bankers you named. Which is acceptable, and definitely respectable. Depending on how much money you have, the value of money to yourself can decline too, even though it may be the same amount of money.

And yes, proving my point is that many are greedy and will take the money despite what happens to the rest of the world.

If these bankers hadn’t been so greedy, this crisis might not have begun in the first place. The least they can do is show some morals, and respect to the people whose money they have been gambling with.

You can’t force the morals upon them.

Laws apparently legalize their behaviour, and therefore nothing can be done. What should be done is prevent such ridiculous “gifts” in the future and taking care of the crisis that’s raging on right now.

 
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In the market, greed is balanced by the fear of loss. The government worked very hard to remove the fear. This is called moral hazard.

 
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I think things like this will start to drift away after other big banks and businesses see the looks AIG gets by giving away these bonuses. I’m willing to bet that the American citizen as a whole will not be too happy with AIG.

 
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save the cat

pmr yay

let the banks burn

 
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My facebook message was “Brandon doesn’t know why AIG isn’t burned to the ground.”

America has gotten far too soft. What happened to lesson-teaching violence?

 
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/1dZif8zHiaI/SQSookmslWI/AAAAAAAAC04/yA8JuqcjpPs/s400/blogAIG_Cartoon.bmp

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/2/24/saupload_lewisaig.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/H/N/2/aig-execs-rub-it-in.jpg

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/puzzles_toons/images/01tt.gif

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/aig7771.jpg

 
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I think I need to quote Carlin again "When the underclass riots in this country, they don’t kill policemen and politicians, they steal merchandise. How embarrassing.

 
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Why policemen? They aren’t the source of policy. I feel that either that quote is a Carlin low point (yeah it happens) or is taken out of context.

 
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policemen, politicians, CEOs, anyone that holds any position of power qualifies

 
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In general, i disagree with bailing out companys in which their business model ran them into bankruptcy. Its like if your building a tower of blocks, if it starts wobbling, you just let it fall down. It is worse in the short-run, but in the long run you will have a much stronger tower which can be built much higher

 
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The point being that they’re on a lower class than others. Policemen enforce the class difference, is the idea. I understand the social context, but it’d be absurd and impossible to police a country without the side effect of keeping people who are retarded and on drugs still retarded and on drugs.

 
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Originally posted by pmr0078:

I think I need to quote Carlin again "When the underclass riots in this country, they don’t kill policemen and politicians, they steal merchandise. How embarrassing.

I do think it is stupid that in some riots, people vandalize private businesses and peoples personal property who have nothing to do with the issue. It just shows you that these people who riot and do this don’t have their heads on straight and it COMPLETELY takes away from any point they are trying to make.

 
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Yea, but I wouldn’t build a new tower, Id spread the blocks out equally

(woot! symbolism)

The tower is capitalism, the blocks are resources and the spread out blocks are collectivism)

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by pmr0078:

I think I need to quote Carlin again "When the underclass riots in this country, they don’t kill policemen and politicians, they steal merchandise. How embarrassing.

I do think it is stupid that in some riots, people vandalize private businesses and peoples personal property who have nothing to do with the issue. It just shows you that these people who riot and do this don’t have their heads on straight and it COMPLETELY takes away from any point they are trying to make.

Some riots, arent even for a cause, some people take advantage of a blackout just to steal stuff

Its the Great American Addiction

Its consumerism-even thiefs arent immune to it

 
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Originally posted by pmr0078:
Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by pmr0078:

I think I need to quote Carlin again "When the underclass riots in this country, they don’t kill policemen and politicians, they steal merchandise. How embarrassing.

I do think it is stupid that in some riots, people vandalize private businesses and peoples personal property who have nothing to do with the issue. It just shows you that these people who riot and do this don’t have their heads on straight and it COMPLETELY takes away from any point they are trying to make.

Some riots, arent even for a cause, some people take advantage of a blackout just to steal stuff

Its the Great American Addiction

Its consumerism-even thiefs arent immune to it

or its just stupid people ?

 
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Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by pmr0078:
Originally posted by pacaholic:
Originally posted by pmr0078:

I think I need to quote Carlin again "When the underclass riots in this country, they don’t kill policemen and politicians, they steal merchandise. How embarrassing.

I do think it is stupid that in some riots, people vandalize private businesses and peoples personal property who have nothing to do with the issue. It just shows you that these people who riot and do this don’t have their heads on straight and it COMPLETELY takes away from any point they are trying to make.

Some riots, arent even for a cause, some people take advantage of a blackout just to steal stuff

Its the Great American Addiction

Its consumerism-even thiefs arent immune to it

or its just stupid people ?

Stupid people created by the corporate media-created by consumerism

so no, with all the generalities, logical fallacies presented as fact, bright flashy commercials and small print, is it any wonder that commercials make you stupid?

 
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I will just agree to disagree with you on this point

 
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Originally posted by RogerFromSF:

A quick recap for those of you just tuning in:

The U.S. government has bailed out insurance company AIG to the tune of $170 billion so far. Last Friday, AIG announced that they would be granting bonuses totaling $160 million to company employees – many of the same people who ran the company into the ground. Without the bailout, there would be no money for bonuses, as the company would be bankrupt.

Company executives say the employees were granted the bonuses before the bailout money was received, and that they have contracts that must be honored. Otherwise, the employees will sue and win.

Obama, Geitner, Bernanke are all furious. Obama instructed Geitner today to do everything possible to avoid paying the bonuses. It seems a little late now. They should have worked all that out before providing bailout money.

That said, heads should roll, lawsuits should be filed and the new sheriff in town should laying down the law (IMO, of course). A RICO (racketeering act) counter suit might be in order.

But that’s only part of the story. Big chunks of AIG bailout money was used to pay off the bad bets (err… derivative contracts) that AIG made and lost. It turns out the biggest payout AIG made, $12 billion, was to Goldman Sachs, which just happens to be former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson’s old firm.

This amounts to a “stealth bailout” of Goldman Sachs, among others, and they will never have to repay the money.

The way it looks now, thieves on Wall Street will be walking away with billions, and we’ll be paying off this debt with our taxes, as will our children, our grandchildren, and probably our great grandchildren.

At least someone in authority is complaining instead of going “oh well too late!”. Glass half full or half empty?

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

Policemen enforce the class difference, is the idea.

Technically everyone does that. That’s why I implied it should be the politicians held accountable and only politicians since they are the ones that control public policy.

 
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Originally posted by TheBSG:

My facebook message was “Brandon doesn’t know why AIG isn’t burned to the ground.”

America has gotten far too soft. What happened to lesson-teaching violence?

you need to learn some lessons from france and greece

 
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At least the government won’t let them off the hook. Think of how people are feeling now, then imagine how you would feel if the AIG executives could go freely with all that money.