President Obama page 2 (locked)

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Originally posted by pmr0078:

that same argument works on you pmr. How do you now they arent terrorist, how can you say they arent terrorist. Like it or not, we have to put some trust in the government, b/c thats how it works.

a terrorist can be a fascist (ex:Muslim fundamentalist) or a freedom fighter (ex:Guy Fawkes)

It depends on what the person is fighting for in my book, if the only turmoil they are causing is to the corrupt in power, I support them.

Yes, but many wars begin due to hatred of the other country’s government, not the people. U.S. revolution, Most of the French-British wars of long ago, and many of the wars in Africa.

still buying the “they hate us for our freedom” speech?

Still buying the whole “Republicans are evil and Democrats are never wrong” speech?

 
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Still buying the whole “Republicans are evil and Democrats are never wrong” speech?

pmr isn’t a democrat. He’s an anarchist.

 
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Originally posted by Iggyshark:

Still buying the whole “Republicans are evil and Democrats are never wrong” speech?

pmr isn’t a democrat. He’s an anarchist.

w/e pmr is, he is ridiculous

 
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w/e pmr is, he is ridiculous

Most of what you say is ridiculous as well. Of course, this is simply opinion, blah blah blah…

What is ridiculous to one may very well be sane to another.

 
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Originally posted by Iggyshark:

w/e pmr is, he is ridiculous

Most of what you say is ridiculous as well. Of course, this is simply opinion, blah blah blah…

What is ridiculous to one may very well be sane to another.

Yeah, but what’s ridiculous to the majority is probably just ridiculous.

 
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Yeah, but what’s ridiculous to the majority is probably just ridiculous.

Popularity does not make something right, or good.

At one point in time, the majority thought the earth was flat. Didn’t make it true.

 
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still buying the “they hate us for our freedom” speech?

Never heard of it.

 
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It is also an outright denial of human rights to drive a plane into a skyscraper.

I wasn’t aware that the people in Git’mo were the ones who did that. How did they survive?! As far as I’m concerned, if they did something wrong, there should be enough evidence to prove them guilty. We shouldn’t put people in jail and waterboard them without trial. Of course, I’m sure you wouldn’t have any problem with Ingsoc in 1984, either.

that same argument works on you pmr. How do you now they arent terrorist, how can you say they arent terrorist. Like it or not, we have to put some trust in the government, b/c thats how it works.

Yes, but they should have a fair trial.

The other side likes to behead people. As far as I’m concerned they are less than human.

I’m lovin’ the straw man arguments. “These radicals behead people, and must be detained to preserve overall human rights. Thus, if I have a hunch this other guy is friends with those guys, he is, by transitive property, less than human and I can waterboard and torture him without trial!”

 
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At one point in time, the majority thought the earth was flat. Didn’t make it true.

Point taken. On the other hand, most people thought that Hitler was ridiculous.

In today’s world of science and instant communication, people tend to be well educated. In an intelligent debate, the majority tends to be correct more often. I’m not saying it’s always true, but it tends to be.

 
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Originally posted by gereffi:

At one point in time, the majority thought the earth was flat. Didn’t make it true.

Point taken. On the other hand, most people thought that Hitler was ridiculous.

In today’s world of science and instant communication, people tend to be well educated. In an intelligent debate, the majority tends to be correct more often. I’m not saying it’s always true, but it tends to be.

The Germans didn’t think he was. The irony is that pmr is trying to point out that people may have been brainwashed into thinking his position ridiculous, and that’s precisely what Hitler did.

But you must remember, an ad populum argument does not constitute a good rationale, and if it is likely correct as you pointed out, it should have some other, more convincing argument.

 
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Point taken. On the other hand, most people thought that Hitler was ridiculous.

44,461,278 / 45,453,691 = .978161665036 (97.82 %)

Votes for Hitler’s NSDAP / Total elligble voters in the 1936 German elections.

 
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Votes for Hitler’s NSDAP / Total elligble voters in the 1936 German elections.

Do you remember under what conditions, or coercion they voted? (I watched a video about Hitler and I thought it was 30%, the Nazi Party won more percent, but not as much as 97%) Also 98% of people vote Democrat or Republican.

The irony is that pmr is trying to point out that people may have been brainwashed into thinking his position ridiculous, and that’s precisely what Hitler did.

And it isn’t that hard either, now imagine what people would be believing in now if Hitler managed to take over the world.

(may I point out that Hitler studied and respected the Catholic church, though he wasn’t religious, becuase he was impressed at the long survival of the Church)

 
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Originally posted by pmr0078:

Votes for Hitler’s NSDAP / Total elligble voters in the 1936 German elections.

Do you remember under what conditions, or coercion they voted? Also 98% of people vote Democrat or Republican.

The irony is that pmr is trying to point out that people may have been brainwashed into thinking his position ridiculous, and that’s precisely what Hitler did.

And it isn’t that hard either, now imagine what people would be believing in now if Hitler managed to take over the world.

(may I point out that Hitler studied and respected the Catholic church, though he wasn’t religious, becuase he was impressed at the long survival of the Church)

Meh, fervent militant nationalism as displayed by such propaganda as “Citizen Soldier” is essentially Nazism, replacing the Anti-Semitism with hate of Islam.

 
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Meh, fervent militant nationalism as displayed by such propaganda as “Citizen Soldier” is essentially Nazism, replacing the Anti-Semitism with hate of Islam.

I think all governments are essentially forms of fascism.

This country is inconspicuously authoritarian. The tradition starts in school with “Do this! Dont Do That! Shut up! Sit Still! No talking! Stand up Straight!” They give you a coloring book and some crayons and tell you, “Be creative…but dont go outside the lines.”

 
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Do you remember under what conditions, or coercion they voted? (I watched a video about Hitler and I thought it was 30%, the Nazi Party won more percent, but not as much as 97%) Also 98% of people vote Democrat or Republican.

That’s not 97% of votes, that’s 97% everybody who is elligible to vote. In the 2008 american election, 63.0% of eligible voters voted, which is a record high since the 60’s. Not really seeing the comparison.

 
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Originally posted by mxmm:

It is also an outright denial of human rights to drive a plane into a skyscraper.

I wasn’t aware that the people in Git’mo were the ones who did that. How did they survive?! As far as I’m concerned, if they did something wrong, there should be enough evidence to prove them guilty. We shouldn’t put people in jail and waterboard them without trial. Of course, I’m sure you wouldn’t have any problem with Ingsoc in 1984, either.

that same argument works on you pmr. How do you now they arent terrorist, how can you say they arent terrorist. Like it or not, we have to put some trust in the government, b/c thats how it works.

Yes, but they should have a fair trial.

The other side likes to behead people. As far as I’m concerned they are less than human.

I’m lovin’ the straw man arguments. “These radicals behead people, and must be detained to preserve overall human rights. Thus, if I have a hunch this other guy is friends with those guys, he is, by transitive property, less than human and I can waterboard and torture him without trial!”

Straw man argument is adding things like “I have a hunch this other guy is friends with…” when clearly they don’t act on “hunches” but rather solid intel

Originally posted by mxmm:
Originally posted by gereffi:

At one point in time, the majority thought the earth was flat. Didn’t make it true.

Point taken. On the other hand, most people thought that Hitler was ridiculous.

In today’s world of science and instant communication, people tend to be well educated. In an intelligent debate, the majority tends to be correct more often. I’m not saying it’s always true, but it tends to be.

The Germans didn’t think he was. The irony is that pmr is trying to point out that people may have been brainwashed into thinking his position ridiculous, and that’s precisely what Hitler did.

But you must remember, an ad populum argument does not constitute a good rationale, and if it is likely correct as you pointed out, it should have some other, more convincing argument.

Actually a lot of Germans thought he was, heard of Operation Valkyrie?

 
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Originally posted by gereffi:
Originally posted by itipt:

I think he already has done better than Bush because of his steps to close down Guantanamo

Yeah, he released terrorists into the USA and back to the Middle East without trials. Nice move.

Guantanamo Bay should have been kept. I’m not saying that we should have continued to torture its captives, but Guantanamo was a great place to keep dangerous enemies outside of the country, yet still close by.

Would it be ok for a government from a different country to set up prison camps, and take US citizens they thought were acting strangely, not give them a trial and torture them.

But, on Obama, he’s doing ok, there are bits I like, bits I’m not so keen on.

 
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OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE WILL BE OUR RUIN!!!!!!!!!!! GOD SAVE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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Wow, were you eejits never taught that two wrongs don’t make a right? Even if the folk in G. Bay were found guilty of “denying others their human rights”, it is not therefore okay for anyone else to deny them theirs.

 
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Originally posted by darkfrogger:

OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE WILL BE OUR RUIN!!!!!!!!!!! GOD SAVE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Proof?

 
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I thought he was just being deliberately silly.

 
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You thought correctly.

 
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In a lighthearted conversation, President Obama told Jay Leno that he recently bowled a 129 at the White House bowling alley.

“Very good,” Leno said sarcastically.

“It was like Special Olympics or something,” Obama replied.

That is our president that is going to bring equality to us all. Oh how far we have come. The man is a complete joke…

 
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7129997&page=1

In case anyone would like proof to go with pacaholic’s statement.

“He was very sincere, expressed an interest and an openness in being more engaged in the movement and said he was a fan of the movement and I think importantly he said he was ready to have some of our athletes over to the White House to bowl or play basketball or help him improve his score.”

Bowing out to only then imply that he is “worse” than Special Olympics Athletes doesn’t make it better. >_>

But in all honesty every president has made distasteful remarks like that, and it is usually during their first few months as president. (Or, in Bush’s case, all 8 years.)

 
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Originally posted by Kyru:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7129997…

In case anyone would like proof to go with pacaholic’s statement.

But in all honesty every president makes stupid remarks like that, and it is usually during their first few months as president. (Or, in Bush’s case, all 8 years.)

Obama attended a Church his whole life. Once Obama came to be a public figure, and cameras started rolling inside the church, the pastor was found to have a very anti-American and racist viewpoint. But American voters didn’t care… Anyways, its like the people who voted for him are in the Special Olympics or something. Oh oops.