Germany is on the verge of banning violent games

Germany is set to ban all violent games after the March 11th school shootings have been ‘linked’ to Far Cry 2 and Counterstrike.

The minister of the interior of Lower Saxony commented: “Violent games lower the inhibition level for real violence and spree killers always played such games before they did the crime.”

The ban on “Violent” games stretches from games such as God of War to World of Warcraft.

Source

Does anyone else find it scary that a supposedly free democratic first world country could be about to make buying, making or playing games that have even cartoon violence (eg World of Warcraft) illegal?

I know some developing and third world countries have laws and censorship that’s pretty heavy but it just makes me think when a leading world country can do this, what other countries will follow suit.

I think that the problem lies not within the games, but somewhere else. Germany is shooting the wrong duck with that censorship.

Does anyone else find it scary that a supposedly free democratic first world country could be about to make buying, making or playing games that have even cartoon violence (eg World of Warcraft) illegal?

No. Germany has had sweeping censorship in other areas before (i.e. Nazi stuff) and I don’t see anything unique or frightening about this. It might be an interesting source of research if they go through with this.

oh that’s bs
games don’t cause kids to go on killing sprees
if anything they keep kids from doing it
because violent games can be an outlet

I’m sure you can back up that claim with some sort of evidence right?

what that it’s an outlet?
not really that’s why i said “Can be”

but i mean just based on my personal experience
(not saying that i’ve had feelings on going on killing sprees)
but when i was younger and was angry at something
Playing a violent game like dino crisis or medal for honor
did help

but still that aside most kids who do school shootings
are probably not just angry there’s probably other issues
family, or just pure mental problems

basically things that a violent games won’t affect anyways..

personally I think Germany has gone insane again. there has not been proof games cause violence.
counterstrike for example is played by over 50,000 people at any given moment. If counterstrike really makes people go on killing sprees there should be a lot more of these things happening.

second of all. they are inverting there proof.
I can be sure that a teenager who is a little bit more violent then normal will pick a game with more violence then someone who is not that violent.

the guy who shot the school also was depressive, teased by his classmates and not in his right mind. I think this is a more plausible explanation for the school shootout then the games he played.

last of all. the dad of the murderer had guns lying around the house anywhere. and he also told his son how to use them. tough a normal person would not go on a killing spree if he knew how to use a gun, however, a depressive, mentally ill person who is teased all his life might do that.

PS. Personally I have no problem with a law who prohibits the sale of violent games ( 18 and 16 years and older) to children.

Originally posted by Pooky:

what that it’s an outlet?

not really that’s why i said “Can be”

but i mean just based on my personal experience

(not saying that i’ve had feelings on going on killing sprees)

but when i was younger and was angry at something

Playing a violent game like dino crisis or medal for honor

did help

but still that aside most kids who do school shootings

are probably not just angry there’s probably other issues

family, or just pure mental problems

basically things that a violent games won’t affect anyways..

That may be somewhat half-founded, but there exists a certain amount of desensitization that comes from violent media in general that makes killing easier for these disturbed individuals. Remember the Doom and Quake marathons and how for a while afterwards, there was a bit of a detachment from reality? How bout playing a racing game for a few hours at a stretch and then realizing, as you’re driving down the road, that you’re seeing your commute as a race?

To assume that just because playing GTA doesn’t make you want to go out and steal a car, punch a hooker, etc., that it doesn’t have that effect (or worse) on someone else is just irresposible.

i dont think its a major problem to ban such games.

there’s lots of other things that kids can play with to enjoy themselves. “violent” games are fun but are not essential.

in fact, ion a generation or 2 it might give up some unusual results in a generation of children. could be quite unique.

I hope if they are banning games they will ban all other violent media otherwise it’s a witch hunt aimed at the gaming industry.

Not long ago there was a 17 year old student tied to a tree, covered in petrol and burned alive. The perpetrators of this horrific crime said “They’d seen it in a film” (Source )

I have yet to see a game that comes close to the levels of violence and realism (of the special affects) that are seen in films.

well i think that’s sensible. it mmight help foster a wholle new film industry.

there’s lots of other things that kids can play with to enjoy themselves.

This made me laugh. I got a horrible sense of humour, I know :(

If a kid goes around on a killing spree, I think he got other problems.

That may be somewhat half-founded, but there exists a certain amount of desensitization that comes from violent media in general that makes killing easier for these disturbed individuals. Remember the Doom and Quake marathons and how for a while afterwards, there was a bit of a detachment from reality? How bout playing a racing game for a few hours at a stretch and then realizing, as you’re driving down the road, that you’re seeing your commute as a race?

To assume that just because playing GTA doesn’t make you want to go out and steal a car, punch a hooker, etc., that it doesn’t have that effect (or worse) on someone else is just irresposible.

this effects last, (depending on how long you play your game) from 5 minutes to maybe half an hour. after that, most sane people have there grip on reality back.

@Capn

what you do is a common mistake.
you assume that something (in this case computergames) does not affect yourself,
only affects your friends and family a little bit
and affects random strangers a lot.

however, random strangers are not all mentally retarded. Most random stranger can perfectly understand the difference between GTA and real life. Those who do not understand this are usually under 18. and did you know GTA has a 18+ advice? (at least it has where I live)

Originally posted by kirdaiht:

That may be somewhat half-founded, but there exists a certain amount of desensitization that comes from violent media in general that makes killing easier for these disturbed individuals. Remember the Doom and Quake marathons and how for a while afterwards, there was a bit of a detachment from reality? How bout playing a racing game for a few hours at a stretch and then realizing, as you’re driving down the road, that you’re seeing your commute as a race?

To assume that just because playing GTA doesn’t make you want to go out and steal a car, punch a hooker, etc., that it doesn’t have that effect (or worse) on someone else is just irresposible.

this effects last, (depending on how long you play your game) from 5 minutes to maybe half an hour. after that, most sane people have there grip on reality back.

@Capn

what you do is a common mistake.

you assume that something (in this case computergames) does not affect yourself,

only affects your friends and family a little bit

and affects random strangers a lot.

however, random strangers are not all mentally retarded. Most random stranger can perfectly understand the difference between GTA and real life. Those who do not understand this are usually under 18. and did you know GTA has a 18+ advice? (at least it has where I live)

You’re seeing generalizing words in my post that don’t exist. the point of my post is not that video games affect everyone the same, but that the assumption that they affect no one is foolish.

It’s refreshing to think that this banning could even be possible. Young children are growing up along side these games. To say that video games are not influential is to say that they are not an art form and that human
beings are incapable of learning anything.

How do you think people learn in the first place? Exposure to concepts, ideas, and experiences. Video games are used to train adult soldiers. How much more impressionable are young children. It’s a slippery slope, adults
should be able to get what they want, but lets face it:
These games are being marketed to and played by kids.

Originally posted by jitters:

It’s refreshing to think that this banning could even be possible. Young children are growing up along side these games. To say that video games are not influential is to say that they are not an art form and that human

beings are incapable of learning anything.

How do you think people learn in the first place? Exposure to concepts, ideas, and experiences. Video games are used to train adult soldiers. How much more impressionable are young children. It’s a slippery slope, adults

should be able to get what they want, but lets face it:

These games are being marketed to and played by kids.

Question; is this going to ban these games for adults as well?

and what about the games that are already in the hands of the childrens?

All in all, since it doesn’t affect me, I think it’s a good idea; it, like someone else already said, could lead to some interesting research and statistics, though I’m not sure if we can assume causation in the case of videogames =\

Banning games itself is a slippery slope.

The entire argument for banning violent media is thee assumption that young people, or people in general, cannot tell the difference between entertainment and reality, which there isn’t really that much evidence for.

Any form of censorship is as bad as violence, because its purpose is to direct or hinder though or ideas. If we ban videogames, the next generation won’t think its much if we ban leftist publications (<- just an example). If all of that stuff was banned in one go, there would be a massive public outcry, its somewhat like boiled a frog or a lobster.

Links:

(note, most of these say that more research is required)

Link1
Link2
Link3

Question; is this going to ban these games for adults as well?

Based on what I asked Ventero, yes, they would. The level of censorship already present is kinda ridiculous as well, though. When people in Counterstrike reach 0 HP, rather than dying, they just… sit down…

Any form of censorship is as bad as violence

Or worse.

Originally posted by Kasha4890:

Question; is this going to ban these games for adults as well?

and what about the games that are already in the hands of the childrens?

No, everyone who is older then 18 years can get it and the ownership of the game itself isn’t forbidden. And adversting for this game is also limited. Normally you get these game over Amazon and Postident for age verification. But there are also other ways. You can definitly get the german version of counterstrike source (without blood) (USK 16+) and WoW (USK 12+) in every store at this moment.

This is definitly no ban in sense of the § 130a StGB or § 131 StGB. The only games that matter and is banned in this way is manhunt.

When people in Counterstrike reach 0 HP, rather than dying, they just… sit down…

That would make for a lame video game.

Like Saint said, assuming they do it, it will be interesting to see the result it has on Germany’s young, or video game playing, crime. If any. You know other countries will be using this as an example if the crime rate goes down.

I already know of a case where the American gov’t has banned a piece of media. It’s a pretty gross piece of media, but it’s really strange that the gov’t banned it. I don’t know how they got away with it.

I hope if they are banning games they will ban all other violent media otherwise it’s a witch hunt aimed at the gaming industry.

Not really, since there is a difference between passive media and games.

The entire argument for banning violent media is thee assumption that young people, or people in general, cannot tell the difference between entertainment and reality

False, but nice attempt at poisoning the well. Whether people understand it isn’t real or not is generally irrelevant.

Any form of censorship is as bad as violence, because its purpose is to direct or hinder though or ideas.

Again false. Or do you think censoring child pornography and keeping certain things out of the hands of children is “worse than violence”?

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

I hope if they are banning games they will ban all other violent media otherwise it’s a witch hunt aimed at the gaming industry.

Not really, since there is a difference between passive media and games.

The entire argument for banning violent media is thee assumption that young people, or people in general, cannot tell the difference between entertainment and reality

False, but nice attempt at poisoning the well. Whether people understand it isn’t real or not is generally irrelevant.

Any form of censorship is as bad as violence, because its purpose is to direct or hinder though or ideas.

Again false. Or do you think censoring child pornography and keeping certain things out of the hands of children is “worse than violence”?

Are you saying that it doesn’t matter if I understand that what i’m doing in a game is real or not, it will still have the same effect?

Also child porn hurts real people, video games hurt imaginary people. They are entirely different. Also, I think it a parents duty to decide what is right or wrong to give to their children, not the governments. (This is of course allows for intervention involving physical abuse or some such.)

Are you saying that it doesn’t matter if I understand that what i’m doing in a game is real or not, it will still have the same effect?

Of course. Ever get angry while playing games? “Fake” situation from which real physiological changes result.

Also child porn hurts real people, video games hurt imaginary people.

You said all forms of censorship, obviously that was wrong if we have to caveat it. If it is simply a matter of attributing harm, then the country is obviously basing its decision on a rational analysis based on available information. You can argue if it is too excessive or whatever, but it isn’t something that came out of the blue with no reasoning behind it.

Also, I think it a parents duty to decide what is right or wrong to give to their children, not the governments.

Until parents gain omnipotence, I think making sure shop owners don’t sell to them is another good step. Germany just taking it a step further and said “let’s not have this crap around at all.”

I rarely see instances in which censorship aids. I just hope that, if this plan is successfully enacted, that Germany leaves it as this, rather than continuing expanding censorship.

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

Are you saying that it doesn’t matter if I understand that what i’m doing in a game is real or not, it will still have the same effect?

Of course. Ever get angry while playing games? “Fake” situation from which real physiological changes result.

Also child porn hurts real people, video games hurt imaginary people.

You said all forms of censorship, obviously that was wrong if we have to caveat it. If it is simply a matter of attributing harm, then the country is obviously basing its decision on a rational analysis based on available information. You can argue if it is too excessive or whatever, but it isn’t something that came out of the blue with no reasoning behind it.

Also, I think it a parents duty to decide what is right or wrong to give to their children, not the governments.

Until parents gain omnipotence, I think making sure shop owners don’t sell to them is another good step. Germany just taking it a step further and said “let’s not have this crap around at all.”

Even if I get angry with a video game, its at the imaginary video game, not at the people around me , if someonr takes out their frustration on the people around them, then violent video games is not their problem.

Also, the cracking down on child porn is not censorship, as the act itself is illegal, therefore the real recording is illagal.

Parents do not need omnipotence to make sure that their kids expenditures are monitored, and that they know what games they playing.

As far as making sure they don’t sell things to minors, they already do this, and there is absolutely no reason to keep it from everyone.

Germany just taking it a step further and said “let’s not have this crap around at all.”

There is no just about it, this is censorship, and it is wrong because its not letting people (or their parents) choose for themselves, which is very important for freedom.