Germany is on the verge of banning violent games page 3

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

despite there being no supporting evidence.

Well if a video gaming site says so, we can take that as proof. No bias there.

IGN (as much as I hate them) have a point, there is no evidence that games make people kill.

I don’t see anyone claiming video games make people kill. Even the biased sources thrown out say “heavily influenced.”

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

Originally posted by Jabor:

So simulated child rape would be ok, as long as they are paid actors?

You mean paid child actors? There’s consent issues there.

If you mean adult actors dressing up in schoolgirl uniforms, what is wrong with that?

If they appear to be children then in many cases it is against the law. That being said I can think of numerous reasons why it should be so, but I think we are starting to go off topic here.

In relation to your first and second comments, my point it it would do absolutely no good to ban your post, because I would just explode on something else.

So you don’t think we should bother to take any actions against those who consistently cause conflict in the forums (i.e. trolls or whatever)? Even “rational” people can reach their limit when the situation is right, although people like to think they are immune to it.

In relation to your third, as long as noone is getting hurt, its fine.

Even if it can be shown to often lead to actual attacks on children? I might start a new thread on this later since it is a separate topic.

in relation to your fourth, what I mean there is that all government policy should be given scrutiny regardless of who or what proposed it, who knows, we may find corruption.

In what form?

So what is absolute freedom then?

Doing whatever you want with no consequences. It just can’t happen.

I hope you don’t mind me responding in this way, I’ll just mark the statements with numbers.

1. There is no real reason why it should be against the law for paid actors to do that, as it harms no one.

2. My point is, even though that your post was not trollish, and I exploded over it because you disagreed with me, it would be my problem, and banning you or blocking your post would be useless because there is a high chance another post would do the same if I was in that kind of a state, and if we banned or blocked all of the posts that did that to (unstable) people, we would be getting nowhere.

3. [Citation Needed] It would seem that people could get there “fix” off of harmless stuff instead of the real thing.

4. This is in off topic land, but I just mean that we can’t take things for granted just because they are from the government, and I’m not saying we should just shun everything by them either.

This argument is coming up quite a bit:

“It would seem that people could get there “fix” off of harmless stuff instead of the real thing.”

Proof that this happens?

1. There is no real reason why it should be against the law for paid actors to do that, as it harms no one.

It can incite pedophiles to act out their fantasies, which I believe is the reasoning behind such laws (based on occurrences where it has happened).

2. My point is, even though that your post was not trollish, and I exploded over it because you disagreed with me, it would be my problem, and banning you or blocking your post would be useless because there is a high chance another post would do the same if I was in that kind of a state, and if we banned or blocked all of the posts that did that to (unstable) people, we would be getting nowhere.

If it were only unstable people that showed increased aggression after playing video games during studies, I would discount it too. However that is not the case.

3. [Citation Needed] It would seem that people could get there “fix” off of harmless stuff instead of the real thing.

Except that it predicts criminal acts. For starters, if only the criminal element is interested in it, why cater to them? Since there is no reason to presuppose “fake” scenes will stop real actions, so I find it to be a pillar of support based on lies and assumptions.

4. This is in off topic land, but I just mean that we can’t take things for granted just because they are from the government, and I’m not saying we should just shun everything by them either.

That was mainly a reply to RMcD, not really at your comments. Sorry it got mixed in there.

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

This argument is coming up quite a bit:

“It would seem that people could get there “fix” off of harmless stuff instead of the real thing.”

Proof that this happens?

1. There is no real reason why it should be against the law for paid actors to do that, as it harms no one.

It can incite pedophiles to act out their fantasies, which I believe is the reasoning behind such laws (based on occurrences where it has happened).

2. My point is, even though that your post was not trollish, and I exploded over it because you disagreed with me, it would be my problem, and banning you or blocking your post would be useless because there is a high chance another post would do the same if I was in that kind of a state, and if we banned or blocked all of the posts that did that to (unstable) people, we would be getting nowhere.

If it were only unstable people that showed increased aggression after playing video games during studies, I would discount it too. However that is not the case.

3. [Citation Needed] It would seem that people could get there “fix” off of harmless stuff instead of the real thing.

Except that it predicts criminal acts. For starters, if only the criminal element is interested in it, why cater to them? Since there is no reason to presuppose “fake” scenes will stop real actions, so I find it to be a pillar of support based on lies and assumptions.

4. This is in off topic land, but I just mean that we can’t take things for granted just because they are from the government, and I’m not saying we should just shun everything by them either.

That was mainly a reply to RMcD, not really at your comments. Sorry it got mixed in there.

1. [Citation Needed]

2. [Citation Needed]

3. It is not criminal to be a pedophile, it is criminal to have inappropriate relations with children. For example, heterosexual people are attracted to women (or a man, but thats not where i’m focusing.) , but a vast majority would never assault a woman that way, a smaller amount of them watch things depicting the (fake) act, an even smaller amount do it themselves, jsut because a pedophile is attracted to children in the wrong way, it does not mean they would assault them, it just seems that way because the only place you hear about them is when they commit heinous crimes.

It was kind of expecting Germany to play an major role in WW3. They did in the previous two.

Don’t they know shooting games are a great way to recruit teenagers? Just look at Halo and America’s Army.

I guess they have no plans of invading Poland for like the fourth time. (hehe, I’m of polish decent and I like to make fun cause my relatives get pissed :D )

Originally posted by dd790:

Germany is set to ban all violent games after the March 11th school shootings have been ‘linked’ to Far Cry 2 and Counterstrike.

The minister of the interior of Lower Saxony commented: “Violent games lower the inhibition level for real violence and spree killers always played such games before they did the crime.”

The ban on “Violent” games stretches from games such as God of War to World of Warcraft.

Source

Does anyone else find it scary that a supposedly free democratic first world country could be about to make buying, making or playing games that have even cartoon violence (eg World of Warcraft) illegal?

I know some developing and third world countries have laws and censorship that’s pretty heavy but it just makes me think when a leading world country can do this, what other countries will follow suit.

That kid posted on 4chan the day before telling /b/ that he was to shoot up his school because they ousted him and to watch for news from “old Germany” .
Lemme get the pic.

1. [Citation Needed]

Already given under it.

2. [Citation Needed]

Already gave it in other threads and probably this one as well. There is no arguing the link between aggression and video games.

3. It is not criminal to be a pedophile, it is criminal to have inappropriate relations with children. For example, heterosexual people are attracted to women (or a man, but thats not where i’m focusing.) , but a vast majority would never assault a woman that way, a smaller amount of them watch things depicting the (fake) act, an even smaller amount do it themselves, jsut because a pedophile is attracted to children in the wrong way, it does not mean they would assault them, it just seems that way because the only place you hear about them is when they commit heinous crimes.

If you read the source I provided (oh damn it looks like the link broke, I’ll find another later), it explained that watching child pornography is a factor in acting it out. That the two could be separate doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t. Heterosexual attraction is an entirely different ballgame because it is acceptable if both partners consent; this is not so with children.

I’m still waiting on some sort of proof of the first statement as well.

there is something what disturbs me a lot. do you guys know that EVERY school shootouts are done by people who frequently drink water or stuff that contains water?
I think we should ban water as it clearly makes people violent.
did you also know all of the worlds worst killers and dictators drank water and water containing drinks?

Seriously. I wonder how much Teenagers (in developed countries) don’t play violent computergames. I think it is just people looking for connections that are not really there.

False analogy, since there is no statistically significant correlation between water drinking and aggression. Seriously, you guys need to stop claiming others are making things up when you are doing far worse and not even attempting to use logic.

I think that was kird’s point. Especially since there’s no actual connection between violence and video games other than people who have commited great acts of violence also played violent video games.

If every violent video game included a segment on how to become a home rocket scientist then it would be good.

Originally posted by GallowsNoose:

I think that was kird’s point. Especially since there’s no actual connection between violence and video games other than people who have commited great acts of violence also played violent video games.

There is an actual correlation between video games and aggression, something I have gone over quite a few times in this and related threads. Well can’t argue with people that aren’t open to other possibilities.

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

1. [Citation Needed]

Already given under it.

2. [Citation Needed]

Already gave it in other threads and probably this one as well. There is no arguing the link between aggression and video games.

3. It is not criminal to be a pedophile, it is criminal to have inappropriate relations with children. For example, heterosexual people are attracted to women (or a man, but thats not where i’m focusing.) , but a vast majority would never assault a woman that way, a smaller amount of them watch things depicting the (fake) act, an even smaller amount do it themselves, jsut because a pedophile is attracted to children in the wrong way, it does not mean they would assault them, it just seems that way because the only place you hear about them is when they commit heinous crimes.

If you read the source I provided (oh damn it looks like the link broke, I’ll find another later), it explained that watching child pornography is a factor in acting it out. That the two could be separate doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t. Heterosexual attraction is an entirely different ballgame because it is acceptable if both partners consent; this is not so with children.

I’m still waiting on some sort of proof of the first statement as well.

What I am trying to say in the last statement is that if a pedophile can’t get his “fix” anyway but doing the act, they will be more likely to do so, if fake child porn would prevent that, its a good thing. The statement was to negate your statement saying the fake child porn only appeals to the ciminal element, which it does not.

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

Originally posted by GallowsNoose:

I think that was kird’s point. Especially since there’s no actual connection between violence and video games other than people who have commited great acts of violence also played violent video games.

There is an actual correlation between video games and aggression, something I have gone over quite a few times in this and related threads. Well can’t argue with people that aren’t open to other possibilities.

I would accept the idea that there is a correlation between the two, but the only studies I’ve seen making that connection were deeply flawed at the most. And Harvard found that violent games don’t lead to violent people. I believe they called it Grand Theft Childhood. Overall, video games do not create violent children, but violent people are more attracted to violent games.

It’s actually impossible to measure the long term impact video games have on people because it’s highly unethical to do so. (For one, you’d have to have two groups, one that plays violent games, and the other not. And that opens up a can of worms by itself.)

Frankly I don’t care what Germany does. Their country, their rules. But I just have to get my two cents in.