Why do the liberal Democrats want to take guns away from Americans? page 234

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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

I don’t know how much you know about rebellions, but you pick up weapons as you go. I do not believe we will, if in the case of a civil war, be fighting our own military. I believe the military will come down on the people’s side for the most part. I feel we would be fighting a foreign country’s military, probably inserted in our country by the UN. As you know, many of the soldiers countries with rebellion have joined their rebels.

Rebellions don´t tend to last long when at least not some of the military joins their side. Exception being when they are funded from outside.
In case of a civil war. It is clear that much more than half of the population will not join the side of conservative radicals. Who are the ones dreaming of over throwing the current president. Neither the liberals nor the moderates nor the “i don´t give enough damn about politics to fucking vote” would join such a rebellion against the current government.
20% of the active Army and Army reserves are Black who are not only certain not to join the white conservative rebellion but fight it to the teeth if need be.
And no that does not mean that the 80% rest will be joining such a rebellion. It is gonna be a lot less than that, closer to 0% than 80%(or even 50%).

The UN will not interfere in case of a us civil-war, especially if that would mean fighting against US military. Nothing for them to gain, until the endgame when the victors are already clear and spoils of victory are to be handed out.

This is not going to be a party line thing if it happens. Of course this is if you are not thinking all democrats are cowards. Of course not everyone would join a rebellion, but all will be hungry. Now you are stating numbers without any reference to where you got them, so I’m guessing you are estimating. We don’t know exactly how the military will come down, but they are not going to kill their own people, at least not all of them.

The UN will interfere. They are one of the proponents of the OWG. They would like nothing else than to input in the infrastructure of the United States. they are already trying to interfere with our laws in different ways. You do know the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, to be able to restart our country if the government become too powerful? Do our votes really count anymore? Was there voter fraud in the election?

Here is a tidbit for you to consider.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/gop-legally-barred-from-fighting-vote-fraud/

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

This is not going to be a party line thing if it happens. Of course this is if you are not thinking all democrats are cowards. Of course not everyone would join a rebellion, but all will be hungry.

But currently the only ones dreaming and even hoping for a rebellion are those from the right to far right that are dissatisfied with losing the election or where so government paranoid to begin with that they did not even vote.

Now you are stating numbers without any reference to where you got them, so I’m guessing you are estimating.

Only the closer to 0% than 805(or even 50%) was an estimate. The others i either googled or incase of the ones regarding firearms got from the source of the source you linked.

We don’t know exactly how the military will come down, but they are not going to kill their own people, at least not all of them.

What kind of civil disobedience do you think this so called rebellion will be? The Military will certainly shot in self-defense. And if the plan is take back the government with force, this means its the rebells expressed intention to use illegal violence on the government and its institutes. A government and institutes that the military and police are not only a part of but have the expressed duty to defend and keep safe.

The UN will interfere. They are one of the proponents of the OWG. They would like nothing else than to input in the infrastructure of the United States. they are already trying to interfere with our laws in different ways.

The cost are not worth it. The only interference you would see would be blockades or embargoes from the outside, trying to keep the violence contained in the USA.
If its a serious Rebellion, they can get their influence much easier and cheaper through economic pressure after wards(or joining the winner close before the end). Since America will stop to even be a first world country. Its two main powers economy and military utterly depleted.

Do our votes really count anymore? Was there voter fraud in the election?

Here is a tidbit for you to consider.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/gop-legally-barred-from-fighting-vote-fraud/

I will respond to this later got to go to work. Can´t work from home today, there is a Christmas party.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
Oh, I don’t believe the NRA claims to be defenders of this country. I know you think your mentioning the NRA in disparaging ways upsets me, it doesn’t.

The NRA, like the GOP, has a real identity issue on its hands in today’s political//ideological climate.

“The NRA is in a serious bind between the extremists in its own ranks who really do want to claim a right-to-arms as a right-to-insurrection and the necessity that it maintain its respectability and credibility. The right to insurrection is mitigated to the armed populace fantasy which is a hedge between the two positions. The hedge is the essence of political cynicism. It is a force to be reckoned with in the present political culture.”

That YOU state my (and many, MANY others’) “mentioning of the NRA in disparaging ways doesn’t upset” you is merely “proof” that the NRA is in sore need for a huge overhaul.

There are many versions of “upset”….one of them being: CONCERNED.
The NRA most definitely SHOULD BE CONCERNED about not only criticism from without,,,,but from the fact that the gun-kooks claim kinship to it to justify their own idiotic ideology

“The connection between the gun control issue and the threat of violence from the right is an important, but largely untold, story. The militias’ view that the Second Amendment protects our other rights, by ensuring the potential for armed insurrection against the government, is indistinguishable from the long-held constitutional ideology of the National Rifle Association.”

“For decades, NRA leaders have insisted that the Second Amendment is not only about duck hunting or self-defense against criminal attack. Rather, as one NRA official so colorfully put it, “the Second Amendment . . . is literally a loaded gun in the hands of the people held to the heads of government.” NRA Executive Director Wayne LaPierre received loud cheers when he told last year’s Conservative Political Action Conference that our rights as Americans mean little unless we are ready to defend them against the government by force of arms: “Freedom is nothing but dust in the wind till it’s guarded by the blue steel and dry powder of a free and armed people . . . . Our founding fathers understood that the guys with the guns make the rules.”"

 
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First of all Karma, the NRA isn’t the only gun org out there fighting for our 2nd Amendment. Although they are the biggest, they are not the most aggressive. In fact, many members think they aren’t aggressive enough. I have seen them stumble a couple of times, only to be backed up by another organization. Yes, we believe the 2nd protects all of the other rights. Without the 2nd, the people have no teeth and your government would walk all over the Bill of Rights. They many do it anyway with the socialist we have up there now. Also, you might want to back up this post with, Huffington post is a known leftest news outlet.

Second, I get the feeling you would rather run and hide than stand up for your country, or you like the idea of our country becoming a second rate entity. A lot of crap has come out after the election, held back by the Obama administration. Crap that every you should be upset about, operative word being should.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

First of all Karma, the NRA isn’t the only gun org out there fighting for our 2nd Amendment. Although they are the biggest, they are not the most aggressive. In fact, many members think they aren’t aggressive enough. I have seen them stumble a couple of times, only to be backed up by another organization.

I’m well aware of the GOA and their rigid stances on ANYTHING gun related.

BUT, why focus on the “little yapper” in the group rather than the “big dog”. It sure as hell ain’t noise that bites ya in yer ass. Sure, there’s nothing at all wrong w/ showing just how far nuttiness on an issue CAN MAYBE get.

Yes, we believe the 2nd protects all of the other rights.

NO…the Supreme Court protects the Constitution which IS all the other rights. I thought even YOU would know this since ya so often luv to tout how our 3 branches of govt. work…..to the point of derisive crap thrown at “foriegner”.

The egocentricism of the NRA on this issue of “protecting the rest of the Constitution” is one of the huge PR failures that plagues it. The NRA’s reliance on this ideology is what makes most of the public see them as overly zealous on their luv affair w/ their guns.

It’s much easier to find support for a cause when the cause hasn’t so much bullshit in it. That YOU are unable to listen to most of the presentations that have been made on this forum greatly demonstrates this quite adequately.

Without the 2nd, the people have no teeth and your government would walk all over the Bill of Rights. They many do it anyway with the socialist we have up there now.

OH, FUCKING BULLSHIT

Quote Chicken Little: The sky is falling….the sky is falling.
Since this little story is more than 25 CENTURIES old,,,
one might well surmise that “alarmist” such as YOU are nothing new under the sun
But, at least YOU are in good company w/ a CHICKEN.

Also, you might want to back up this post with, Huffington post is a known leftest news outlet.

Ya’re barely even making any sense w/ this sentence.
Try again.

Second, I get the feeling you would rather run and hide than stand up for your country, or you like the idea of our country becoming a second rate entity.

NO on the first.
YES on the second….only I’m not shooting (< < pun..lol) for us being “second rate”.

NOW, as for YOUR thinly veiled calling ME “chicken”….see above.
Such is the “gun nuts” fall-back position. Those who believe in gun CONTROLS just have to automatically be COWARDS.
That is merely another of the PR faux pas the NRA nurtures and gives credibility to the arguements of the “anti’s”

A lot of crap has come out after the election, held back by the Obama administration. Crap that every you should be upset about, operative word being should.

Yeah….a lot of crap such as the secession movement.
Among other “pissy, sore-loser” bullshit.

Being a conservative (in parts) doesn’t mean that I don’t give merit to socialistic values that best serve a huge, complex society such as ours. Esp. when we already have a lot of socialist traits (how fucking many times do I have to tell that head up YOUR ass that there are many, MANY forms of socialism? ? ?) in America. YOU have been given a whooooole lot of valid discussion on this. AND, per usual….YOU opt to IGNORE it. Operative world here is IGNORE-ant.

One thing most conservatives just can’t wrap their minds around is how we are far more like an oligarchy….more specifically, a plutocrisy. They simply would rather “run & hide” from this truth than up for their own best interests. I don’t see this as being cowardly….just (usually) very ignorant.
AND, upon being informed to the point of NOT being able to ignore the obvious any longer,,,continuing to believe their silly shit is just simply STOOOPID.

This is something that EVEN YOU should be upset about, operative word being “should”.

 
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Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Also, you might want to back up this post with, Huffington post is a known leftest news outlet.

Ya’re barely even making any sense w/ this sentence.
Try again.

I think he’s saying to add a disclaimer as the Huffington post carries a ‘liberal bias’ and so cannot be trusted. As he’s said before, ‘facts lean liberal’.

From Jhco:

Second, I get the feeling you would rather run and hide than stand up for your country, or you like the idea of our country becoming a second rate entity.

It already is a second-rate entity. Our job now is to correct the plummet, and bring it back up to being a first-rate country. It hasn’t been there in many decades.

 
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Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:

What kind of civil disobedience do you think this so called rebellion will be? The Military will certainly shot in self-defense. And if the plan is take back the government with force, this means its the rebells expressed intention to use illegal violence on the government and its institutes. A government and institutes that the military and police are not only a part of but have the expressed duty to defend and keep safe.

The UN will interfere. They are one of the proponents of the OWG. They would like nothing else than to input in the infrastructure of the United States. they are already trying to interfere with our laws in different ways.

The cost are not worth it. The only interference you would see would be blockades or embargoes from the outside, trying to keep the violence contained in the USA.
If its a serious Rebellion, they can get their influence much easier and cheaper through economic pressure after wards(or joining the winner close before the end). Since America will stop to even be a first world country. Its two main powers economy and military utterly depleted.

I missed your post, sorry. civil disobedience is the wrong word to use here. It may start as civil unrest, but very easily could blow up into a civil war. This has very little to do with the elections at this point. It has been building for a long time. I may not even see it in my lifetime, but I may. This goes beyond the haves and have nots.Our government has been becoming more and more centralized and powerful for decades. What we see now is a quickening of this process. I am serious when I say Obama is a socialist, but a lot of people just call him a communist. We are seeing our government joining the UN in a bid for a one world government and this is disconcerting to those who look at the signs and realize what is happening. I think you misunderstand the 2nd Amendments purpose. It is not illegal to rebel against our government and some of the fore fathers felt it would be necesary every so often. The 2nd is to allow us to take back our country from tyranny, foriegn or domestic. We are headed in that direction very quickly.

We already have dropped our position as in the first world countries. From what I hear, if we go off the fiscal cliff, which looks probably at this moment, we will drop our standing in the world more. We are spending way more than our country is produceing right now. If I spent my money like this, I would have been bankrupt and on the streets a couple of years ago.

 
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Karma, if you will look at the SCOTUS rulings in the last several years it is obvious they are not following the Constitution like they are supposed to. What you are saying is let the Fox guard the hen house.

You know, I see you post how horrible conservatives are over and over. When I keep seeing this, it makes me think you are not the brightest bulb in the box and really don’t seem to use any logic in your arguments. All you do is make the same rants at me over and over. Thus, I wonder if you are playing with a full deck of cards.

Now you Are shooing a bit of ignorance. There are a whole lot more gun organizations than just the NRA. Not to mention most of these have state associations in each state. There are also many smaller state organizations not affiliated with the other groups such as PPFC of Colorado and the Pink Pistols of California, to name just a couple. So you keep up your arguments, even though you are a little weak in that area.

http://www.kc3.com/Links/national_organizations.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gun_rights_advocacy_groups_in_the_United_States

Check them out and then let us know if you want to continue down this road old fella.

From what I see, your are an expert in socialism. You are good at giving away taxpayers money for your own ideas of helping others, killing babies, pushing odd sex practices, and letting illegals cross open boarders. I suppose you will continue to push these until we go bankrupt in this country.

 
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Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Also, you might want to back up this post with, Huffington post is a known leftest news outlet.

Ya’re barely even making any sense w/ this sentence.
Try again.

I think he’s saying to add a disclaimer as the Huffington post carries a ‘liberal bias’ and so cannot be trusted. As he’s said before, ‘facts lean liberal’.

From Jhco:

Second, I get the feeling you would rather run and hide than stand up for your country, or you like the idea of our country becoming a second rate entity.

It already is a second-rate entity. Our job now is to correct the plummet, and bring it back up to being a first-rate country. It hasn’t been there in many decades.

Thank you for the clarification Vika, I seem to have had a problem getting my idea to post that night.

I agree, we have slipped to a second rate entity. I am not too sure we will get out of the mess this time. The economists are expecting another recession, even deeper this time. I’m a bit worried I won’t be able to maintain the properties my wife and I have been building up for retirement income. They keep predicting some pretty horrid situations coming up this next year.

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
We are seeing our government joining the UN in a bid for a one world government and this is disconcerting to those who look at the signs and realize what is happening.

Are you speaking Biblically, or did it just come out sounding that way?

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:
We are seeing our government joining the UN in a bid for a one world government and this is disconcerting to those who look at the signs and realize what is happening.

Umm wasn’t the US a charter (founding) member of the UN or am I missing something here?

In fact, from the wiki summary & official history seems to suggest that the US is more than a little responsible for, amongst other things, the name, structure, roll and member list (at least at inception)…

and still it seems – "More than 60 years ago, in the aftermath of the destruction and devastation of World War II, the United States provided the leadership and vision that led to the founding of the United Nations. Our leaders understood then that a global institution that brings all of the world’s countries together would enhance – not diminish – our influence and bring more security to our country and the world.

Today, with our security at home affected by instability, violence, disease, or failed states in far corners of the world, President Obama has affirmed America’s commitment to the United Nations as an indispensable, if imperfect, institution for advancing our security and well-being in the 21st century. He has made it clear that we must pursue a national security strategy that builds strong international partnerships to tackle global challenges through the integration of all aspects of American power – military and diplomatic; economic and legal; cultural and moral. The goal of our diplomacy at the United Nations is to make it a more perfect forum to address the most pressing global challenges: to promote peace and development, to advance democracy, and to strengthen respect for human rights."

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

Karma, if you will look at the SCOTUS rulings in the last several years it is obvious they are not following the Constitution like they are supposed to. What you are saying is let the Fox guard the hen house.

Aha…so now YOU are an expert on Constitutional Law…eh “professor”?
OR, is it more likely that YOU are a devotee of the news sources that pander to the absurdly, pathetically needy-of-validation-of-their-hate-all-things-not-like-them egocentrists? These are the “conservatives” I’m talking about. That is why I put the word in quotation marks…to show I mean the word should be understood to have a specific meaning. I could put an asterisk * by it w/ the explanation at the bottom of the “page”.

BUT, I’ve given this explanation over & over & over to ya. Yet, YOU (as ya sooooo luv to do) manage to ignore as much on this forum (and very likely in RL) as is necessary in order to preserve YOUR bigoted biases…..as YOU proudly demonstrate below.

You know, I see you post how horrible conservatives are over and over.

YOU know, I also see how YOU post things (over&over&over) that show just how horrible """"""conservatives""""" are. We “lefties” are constantly pointing this out. THEN, ya post just how horrible we “lefties” are….AND, that is about all ya do in response to our assessment of YOUR points.

In RL, moderate Republicans are beginning to grow a spine and PUBLICLY denounce this """"""rabid conservative"""""" part of the GOP. Maybe now, when a top dog of the GOP rightfully assesses the likes of Rush Limbaugh, he won’t be forced to apologize.

When will YOU begin to realize that—just like there are many kinds of socialism—there are many kinds of conservatism? This “one-trick-pony” ideology (which limits acceptance of ONLY things YOU agree with) of YOURS has been addressed over & over & over by many ppl here on the forum. Yet, you blithely continue down that road.

When I keep seeing this, it makes me think you are not the brightest bulb in the box….

And ya wonder why so many of your posts are deleted…..LOL
Seriously (as in SERIOUS DISCUSSION…rather than juvenile, grade school name-calling crap), do ya thing such puerile INSULTS give any merit to YOUR points?

…and really don’t seem to use any logic in your arguments.

And YOU do….LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
jake-o, I would be immensely astounded if ya were to see much “logic” at all in my posts.

All you do is make the same rants at me over and over.

I’m absolutely convinced that YOU do see what I am saying as being in this manner.
BUT, your attempt to diminish any merit MY post has by calling it a childish name is just that…CHILDISH. My post certainly is NOT in the manner of a “rant”….at least no more than is most anyone eles’s. This is just YOUR pathetic way of making an ad hominemish slur at my posts.
This surprises me….NOT.

Thus, I wonder if you are playing with a full deck of cards.

OH, goodie….a twofer. Two INSULTS in one post. Next time, go for a “hat trick”.
AND, contrary to what MyTie “thinks”….I’m NOT THE ONE who flags these idiotic insults. The very fact that YOU & HE (any others?) are soooooo PRESUMTIVE on this and soooo aver it to be true only serves to make us wonder if ya aren’t doing the same thing w/ a lot (all?) of the other assessments ya present here. How hard can this be for ya to SEE?

Obviously someone else sees how much YOUR insults & aspersions are in violation of KONG guidelines for using this forum. I prefer to leave such posts up so that others have the opportunity to see just how pathetic your “dealing-from-the-(scum)bottom-of-the-deck” actually is when ya’re trying to give “punch” to yer POV.

Now you Are shooing a bit of ignorance. There are a whole lot more gun organizations than just the NRA. Not to mention most of these have state associations in each state. There are also many smaller state organizations not affiliated with the other groups such as PPFC of Colorado and the Pink Pistols of California, to name just a couple. So you keep up your arguments, even though you are a little weak in that area.

Is there an echo in here?
I’ve already addressed this…even “dressed it up” w/ some fine links.
Again, we see YOU doing YOUR “specialty” of ignoring that which gives serious challenge to your position on an issue.
From what I see, your are an expert in socialism.

Then YOU have a very pathetic evaluation of what an “expert” is.
I most certainly am NOT much of an “expert” at most EVERYTHING.
To think otherwise is merely the folly of a fool.

Perhaps ya actually meant to say (and missed a great opportunity for that “hat trick”) that ya see me as being an expert at evilness because YOU so despise (are so FEARFUL of?) and so ignorantly assess what socialism is & how I am one,,,,even after being told—BY ME—that YOUR definition of it is ONLY ONE of many. This behavior by YOU so denies//aborts the very concept of what socialism is in general and what tenets of it I believe in.

Members of this forum have repeatedly pointed out how very much America is very “socialistic-like”.
YET, ya remain steadfast in your stilted views on this. AND THEN, ya tout that MY arguments lack logic…LOLOLOLOLOL

You are good at giving away taxpayers money for your own ideas of helping others, killing babies, pushing odd sex practices, and letting illegals cross open boarders.

And there it is, folks.
He sums up his ideology….such as it is….UGH.

He fails to recognize that he is completely wrong in his assessment of my positions on these issues,,,,even when I have repeatedly made clarifications. But, should we be surprised he, ONCE AGAIN, does this? I esp. luv how he says I’m good at “killing babies”. While his syntax is pathetic, I’m gonna go w/: he wants to say that I SUPPORT killing babies,,,rather than I am actually doing it myself….lol
I greatly luv riding merry-go-rounds and talking w/ jake-o. One is fun & the other is super fun…in the same manner of actually getting NOWHERE…..lmao.

I suppose you will continue to push these until we go bankrupt in this country.

AND, I suppose YOU will continue to push YOUR (et al) agenda until this country becomes MORALLY bankrupt.

YOU are sooooo adept and demonizing “what is” about our govt. & our society.
I challenge YOU to tell us just what the fix is and the proper way America should be.
BUT, like most of the RADICAL, RABID """"conservatives"""""….I’m betting that ya have none,,,other than to say what everyone else is doing is wrong….yet, I haven’t a clue about what is actually “right”.

I really liked donseptico’s response to yer assessment of America’s participation in the UN. Ya really ought to put aside,,for a moment,,YOUR prejudices & paranoia on how frightful our govt is and give what he said some very serious consideration.

We are now a GLOBAL COMMUNITY and attempting to have some method of “sorting it all out” certainly is something that we should be working towards.

 
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Originally posted by Twilight_Ninja:
Originally posted by jhco50:
We are seeing our government joining the UN in a bid for a one world government and this is disconcerting to those who look at the signs and realize what is happening.

Are you speaking Biblically, or did it just come out sounding that way?

I guess I just sound that way, I don’t think any of that is in the Bible.

 
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This guy burgled the wrong house. Had to call the police for protection. LOL

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/burglar-calls-911-himself-163618126.html

 
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Originally posted by jhco50:

I guess I just sound that way, I don’t think any of that is in the Bible.

One world government being the beginning of the end? Yep, it indicates that in the Bible, so when you talk this way you sound either paranoid or apocalyptic. See Revelations or ask your wife for more info.

 
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Wow! I’ll go with apocalyptic as I am not paranoid of it happening. I’m pretty sure it is in the works and has been for awhile. It just seems it is speeding up. There have been several mentions of a OWG by presidents in the past. George W. Bush was one of them if you want to look him up. I’m still on dialup as they sent me a bad router. Tech will be here tomorrow.

 
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We have discussed homemade guns on this thread and now that I have a good internet, I have found I can actually watch a video without waiting an hour for it to load. I like it. That aside, I found a link to a video that shows homemade firearms from around the world. Most are crude, but some of them are pretty ingenious. I don’t know that I would want to pull the trigger on one, but hey, some do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF9CuXorkbI

 
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Although some of you like to think you have a grasp on everything going on in the political world concerning firearms, here is a link showing you what is about to happen because of your Messiah and his disregard for our Constitution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a8NYFp-A2Q

Ice T’s opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GwIbyp4xBU

 
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Could you post a link that isn’t a video, please? I’d find more substance in something with actual references, and a thought out approach.

I realise I’m probably a rarity in this, but random people prattling at a camera does not for me, a convincing argument make. It’s why if I’ve ever posted a youtube link, it has been in the context of a larger argument, with the majority of the argument backed up by non-video links.

 
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