Guilty of Doing Nothing.

First off, here is a pretty horrific incident.

To summarize, a girl was gang raped outside of a homecoming dance for over two hours while bystanders watched, took photos, laughed, and even participated in the assault. In cases like this, should bystanders be charged with doing nothing? What about those who did not directly participate, but went so far as to take pictures and laugh?

A few other sources for a more complete story:

ABC (mentions some related California laws – more on the last law they mention can be found here)
CBS

Bystanders should be given a warning or similar but if they laugh/take pictures they should get a $50 fine or something.

A $50 fine for watching and even inciting by behavior a violent crime against a minor? What kind of warning, a citation or just a slap on the hands?

I think that it is unfair to punish people not wanting to risk their necks for someone else, though they should obviously contact the police if they can. But as for the ones who took pictures, laughed or just watched? I am of the opinion that they should be punished, as they are comitting a rather serious form of abuse.

I think that it is unfair to punish people not wanting to risk their necks for someone else, though they should obviously contact the police if they can.

Well I don’t think anyone expected them to step in, but rather the fact that they didn’t so much as call for help is the problem. Do you think they should be punished for not making any attempt to even call for help?

punish them the same way they would punish the attackers. they are just as guilty for standing there while doing nothing.

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

I think that it is unfair to punish people not wanting to risk their necks for someone else, though they should obviously contact the police if they can.

Well I don’t think anyone expected them to step in, but rather the fact that they didn’t so much as call for help is the problem. Do you think they should be punished for not making any attempt to even call for help?

I suppose so. Intervening would be dangerous, but getting help would not negatively affect them. think it is selfish bullshit to just ignore a crime and not seek assistance in any way because you can’t be bothered.

Originally posted by kirdaiht:

punish them the same way they would punish the attackers. they are just as guilty for standing there while doing nothing.

I think that’s a bit harsh. People who just ignore it (not the ones watching) should be punished imo, but not too severely. But then again watching and taking photos is just abuse, plain and simple.

I don’t think it should be against the law to witness a crime and not help. On the other hand, I think that there should be fairly significant rewards if you do help (especially things beyond just calling for help, like attempting to defend the victim).

Originally posted by mariosuperlative:

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

I think that it is unfair to punish people not wanting to risk their necks for someone else, though they should obviously contact the police if they can.

Well I don’t think anyone expected them to step in, but rather the fact that they didn’t so much as call for help is the problem. Do you think they should be punished for not making any attempt to even call for help?

I suppose so. Intervening would be dangerous, but getting help would not negatively affect them. think it is selfish bullshit to just ignore a crime and not seek assistance in any way because you can’t be bothered.

Originally posted by kirdaiht:

punish them the same way they would punish the attackers. they are just as guilty for standing there while doing nothing.

I think that’s a bit harsh. People who just ignore it (not the ones watching) should be punished imo, but not too severely. But then again watching and taking photos is just abuse, plain and simple.

ok, people ignoring it and walking away should not be punished just as bad, but they should get a serious warning, and maybe even a large fine. but the people who stand, watch, take pictures and laugh, should be punished in a very, very nasty way.

I think this comes down to rights and responsibilities. Does your right to stand by whilst perpetrating a crime value more than your responsibility as a citizen to report this?

It’s easy to say ‘of course it should be illegal to not call for help’ when considering the horrific story posted in the OP, but I can see where implementing a law where you have to report crimes would be difficult. I think there’d be too many grey areas if it were illegal to not call for help.

Generally I have faith in people to do the right thing and call the police or at least alert someone nearby who can help. The very reason this is in the news is that it’s a rare extreme case. I’m sure there’s lots of other instances in which people do help purely out of consideration.

EDIT: As for those taking pictures and laughing, perhaps they could be charged with anti social behaviour or something like that, or at least fined. Behaviour like that shouldn’t be condoned or encouraged by them getting off scot-free.

Um. Standing there laughing while someone is being a victim of rape? Wow. Honestly, it should be a law that states you should help prevent crime to the best of your ability, except in instances of damage to yourself.

Originally posted by generalvalter:

I don’t think it should be against the law to witness a crime and not help. On the other hand, I think that there should be fairly significant rewards if you do help (especially things beyond just calling for help, like attempting to defend the victim).

Like what? How would you decide who gets what?

It’s easy to say ‘of course it should be illegal to not call for help’ when considering the horrific story posted in the OP, but I can see where implementing a law where you have to report crimes would be difficult. I think there’d be too many grey areas if it were illegal to not call for help.

How so? Remember that such laws do exist, they just tend to be a bit more specific. For example if the girl was under 14, they would have all been charged. All you have to do is remove the age requirement.

How so? Remember that such laws do exist, they just tend to be a bit more specific. For example if the girl was under 14, they would have all been charged. All you have to do is remove the age requirement.

I think it depends upon the situation. I mean, if you’re in a bank while it’s being robbed, I don’t think the robbers would take too kindly to someone talking to the police on their mobile. Or a more likely exmaple could be someone witnessing a mugging, where reporting it would make them a likely next target of the mugger.

Basically, I think it would be hard to define whether or not someone is able to report it without endangering themselves. If that problem can be overcome, then I’m all for it.

You just need to be really flexible about it. You really shouldn’t follow the laws regarding sentences to strictly, anyways, otherwise you get cases like these.

Originally posted by woodythedon:

How so? Remember that such laws do exist, they just tend to be a bit more specific. For example if the girl was under 14, they would have all been charged. All you have to do is remove the age requirement.

Basically, I think it would be hard to define whether or not someone is able to report it without endangering themselves. If that problem can be overcome, then I’m all for it.

Just don’t make it a requirement to report violent crimes in which weapons are present and there is a risk in attempting to escape.

I think the school is just as at fault as the students watching were. At my old highschool’s dances, people were only allowed outside in a supervised area. When you got to the dance, you stayed until the end or you left the property for the night. These are “no-shit” rules that have been obvious to intelligent school coordinators since they’ve had dances at schools. The fact that it was possible to have a small drinking party, not behind the school but in a space with seating arrangements shows that the school isn’t doing their job very well.

That said, many young women are drunk and gang-raped every night at parties, but are written off by a great majority of individuals, including courts, as drunken whores. The only reason this was remotely visible was that it happened publicly. I said my school required people off the premises, but I’m sure the date rapes happened at drinking parties at home.

And of course the bystanders should be charged for their failure to report a crime, unsolicited photography and basic coercion in a rape. You’re allowed to make anonymous police calls for a reason. Go around the corner, call 9/11, report the rape, and then act like nothing happened. Take pictures, stand around watching: you’re taking part.

That said, many young women are drunk and gang-raped every night at parties, but are written off by a great majority of individuals, including courts, as drunken whores.

Well we do have problems there as well, but that is a much broader and difficulty to fix issue.

Take pictures, stand around watching: you’re taking part.

That was my thought. Even “doing nothing” can be argued as giving tacit approval, which would be quite illegal.

Those boys did nothing wrong watching, human nature is to be curious about sexual things.

Also who knows if the girl did not trigger the attack by choosing to have sex with her boyfriend in a public place??!

I dont mean she is guilty of the attack, but if she was already making out with her man and other men came, it is their nature to want to have sex

it is like jumping into a lion pit at the zoo, then being shocked the lion attacked you and then the others jumped in

also, when people jump into a lion pit in full view in daylight, why do the people on the outside just watch and stare and yell? why dont they jump in to save the person who jumped in?

should we arrest those who fail to help the lion pit jumper? no! they feared being attacked by the lions – perhaps the gawkers of the sex crime feared being attacked if they stopped it

Just don’t make it a requirement to report violent crimes in which weapons are present and there is a risk in attempting to escape.

I’d say it would have to go even further. Lots of violent crimes which take place require no weapons at all, but I agree with the general principle.

Those boys did nothing wrong watching, human nature is to be curious about sexual things.

Those boys did nothing wrong by being curious, but even that’s a stretch. Once they realised what was going on, they should have called the police. Taking pictures and laughing is disgraceful behaviour.

I dont mean she is guilty of the attack, but if she was already making out with her man and other men came, it is their nature to want to have sex

It is in their nature to be aroused, but that is no excuse for raping someone. If I see a good looking chick in the street it’s not ok if I jump on her just because I got aroused.

The lion analogy is completely fallacious. These are not primal lions whose only interest is to feed, these are human beings with the capabilities and prior knowledge that what is going on is completely wrong.

also, when people jump into a lion pit in full view in daylight, why do the people on the outside just watch and stare and yell? why dont they jump in to save the person who jumped in?

People on the outside don’t just jump in, because they are busy getting a zoo keeper.

Also who knows if the girl did not trigger the attack by choosing to have sex with her boyfriend in a public place??!

Yeah, let’s blame the victim for a vicious assault. Did you have a salient argument somewhere, or did you just stop by to make controversial statements with no substance?

This question has no answer.

Of course their guilty for not standing up. But setting up laws to deter non actions against crimes is …… sad. Anyone with some good in them and an impulsive natural would stand up and voice out. Though not many, but as long as just one voices out, I think that would break the non action in the bystander effect.

I thought Americans are more verbally expressive…. this is bad. I’m sadden by the fact that people are suggesting implementing “law” to do some good.

If it can be proven that they watched and took photographs, that’s an accessory to the crime. Or at the very least, delinquency. In CA, there IS a law that states that failure to report a sex crime against a minor is in itself a crime. Not sure if it’s a misdemeanor or a more serious charge, though.

Alien: Yes, alcohol WAS involved, but that is no excuse for minimalizing the effects of a rape. The sex was not consensual. And she did not deserve what happened to her.

Wow, that’s a pretty horrible story. Things like that happen quite a lot, too.

I agree somebody should be guilty for not taking action against a serious crime. If somebody is being raped, mugged or abused in any way, it should be the person’s responsibility to try to do something about it. The only time I think this wouldn’t be the case is if that person is being threatened or is scared for their well-being, which makes them more of a victim than a bystander.

If the person was taking photos or laughing, that makes it pretty obvious they were supporting the situation, and doing nothing to help.

Also who knows if the girl did not trigger the attack by choosing to have sex with her boyfriend in a public place??!

The evidence goes against that, Alien.

I dont mean she is guilty of the attack, but if she was already making out with her man and other men came, it is their nature to want to have sex

Yes, that doesn’t mean it makes it remotely okay to rape somebody. The urge to have sex does not make it a necessity, and obviously if there isn’t a consent.

CNN reporter who interviewed kids at her school said the girl got what was coming to her, cause of how she teased the boys and acted, was unpopular girl, and was very drunk and stripping that night when she was attacked

its like rubbing raw meat over your body when you fall into the lion den

shame on the girl for being like that

but BIGGER shame on the boys who took advantage of her and beat her as an extra gift due to being a nerd girl and unpopular, and white, all attackers were Latino and she insulted their ‘Latino heat’ which latino men and boys GREATLY DISLIKE.

shameful all around this event is