The Gullible God

Christians seem confident that Heaven awaits them after death. Let’s say for the sake of argument that paradise in the clouds exists and people go there after they die (assuming they did the right things). Why would Christians assume they would be allowed to enter? For a Christian to assume this, is to assume an “all-knowing” god with telepathy is gullible. The god would have to be gullible otherwise very few Christians would be getting into heaven, if any.

Let’s say hypothetically the Bible stayed the same along with the Christian religion. But Heaven and Hell switched places. If you believed in God and loved him, along with being a good person during your lifetime, you would join him in Hell after death, to suffer forever. How many Christians would still “love” their god, knowing that they would spend an eternity burning in Hell for doing so? The only thing driving Christians to say that they believe in and love this god is because they think there is a reward for doing so, sort of like sucking-up. Here is an analogy to put what I mean into perspective…

Let’s say this guy had an aunt that was a millionaire, she was an awful person and treated everyone like garbage. But he faked being nice to get money out of her; she believed that he was genuine so she left her fortune to him after she died. He tricked her because she was gullible enough to believe in his sincerity. The love towards his aunt was not genuine, if she had no money at all, he would want nothing to do with her. And the same goes for this god, if this god offered nothing, or an eternity in Hell for loving him, no one would love him.

There is zero evidence to even hint of the existence of any god, let alone the Christian god. There is no way that anyone can love something which they can’t even know exists (how could you know what you are loving?). Christians love the idea of Heaven, just like the person in my example loves the idea money. The Christians believe their god is gullible.

Discuss.

Hmmm, never really thought about it that way before, and I think it true for probably most people claiming to love God.

By Jove! I think you just abosolutly blew my mind!

Can you prove science is right?

I found a copy of this article here.

This is a unique perspective on things. It doesn’t change my faith, but it does bring up
some good points.

I don’t think the article disproved God, per se, nor should it be a deterrent for those of the faith. Also, I don’t think other Christians out there should be insulted by anything it has to say. It’s no secret that many, many Christians are self-righteous hypocrites, and if heaven exists, there is no way God would allow them enter into eternal bliss. So really, I guess the joke’s on them.

Originally posted by Kimbarsa:

Can you prove science is right?

Can you prove religion is right?

Originally posted by Kimbarsa:

Can you prove science is right?

Beyond a reasonable doubt, scientific exploration holds with all of out experimentation and thus appears to be correct.

Conversely, every attempt to empirically validate religion has been a resounding failure.

Originally posted by FuzzyBacon:

Originally posted by Kimbarsa:

Can you prove science is right?

Beyond a reasonable doubt, scientific exploration holds with all of out experimentation and thus appears to be correct.

Conversely, every attempt to empirically validate religion has been a resounding failure.

The day you figure out how our atoms formed you let me know.

Originally posted by Rothycat:

I don’t think the article disproved God, per se, nor should it be a deterrent for those of the faith. Also, I don’t think other Christians out there should be insulted by anything it has to say. It’s no secret that many, many Christians are self-righteous hypocrites, and if heaven exists, there is no way God would allow them enter into eternal bliss. So really, I guess the joke’s on them.

Sorry, but we’re ALL hypocrites. And damn good ones.
God will forgive you for all the crap you’ve done, you just have to believe in him (like truly believe in him, not just so you can get saved from hell and stuff like so many do) and WANT to be saved.

The day you figure out how our atoms formed you let me know.

Will do. The day you prove even the tiniest bit of any major religion is anything but mysticism and BS, let me know.

At least the former is possible.

God will forgive you for all the crap you’ve done, you just have to believe in him (like truly believe in him, not just so you can get saved from hell and stuff like so many do) and WANT to be saved.

And if you’re wrong? As I’ve said before, there’s no evidence whatsoever for any sort of theistic god (i.e. one that wants worship).

Because really, that argument is based on an enormous pyramid of completely unprovable assumptions.

God will forgive you for all the crap you’ve done, you just have to believe in him (like truly believe in him, not just so you can get saved from hell and stuff like so many do) and WANT to be saved.

Which god, Pascal?

many Christians are self-righteous hypocrites

I hate having to be a Christian to point this out, but proof?

Discuss.

I don’t think even Christians who believe in the Bible literally think God is gullible. They just believe he sees right through their soul, and knows what their true intentions are.

Many isn’t really a statement that needs backing for a group as large as Christians. After all, many makes no reference to the total population, thus what you define as many and how the person who said it meant it. But I digress. The WBC is proof enough.

The WBC is proof enough.

I agree, the world boxing council/world baseball classic/world barista championship is proof enough for .. okay, I admit I had to google it before I found out what you actually meant.

Many isn’t really a statement that needs backing for a group as large as Christians.

It’s a word I’d rather not use, especially not if it’s used for just one part of the group you’re referring to. Call it a hate for a word which you can manipulate to say whatever you want while explaining you implied something else.

But this is not about Christians, so I don’t know why it’s about them. Even the Bible doesn’t describe God as gullible, which is I think what AioriaRox is trying to say.

okay, I admit I had to google it before I found out what you actually meant.

My bad – I thought you would have encountered that group before – They exemplify every possible flaw in Christianity.

Call it a hate for a word which you can manipulate to say whatever you want while explaining you implied something else.

I agree, some would be better, but in this case, many could be used ambiguously and without malicious intent.

I avoid admitting it, but the “It’s just faith!” argument is a defense mechanism for not being able to handle death.

Our death ceremonies and superstitions are likely evolutionary defense mechanisms to develop morality. Evolutionarily, cooperation only works to a limited capacity, while religion gives rise to universal ideals. An ant colony need only develop a new scent in order to assure mutual victory, but our society is simply too complex, so magical thinking provides inventive, objectivity, and group identity. Eventually the evolutionary magnet of technology probably further strong-armed religion into human nature, as evident by cargo cults.

Originally posted by AioriaRox:

Christians seem confident that Heaven awaits them after death. Let’s say for the sake of argument that paradise in the clouds exists and people go there after they die (assuming they did the right things). Why would Christians assume they would be allowed to enter? For a Christian to assume this, is to assume an “all-knowing” god with telepathy is gullible. The god would have to be gullible otherwise very few Christians would be getting into heaven, if any.

Let’s say hypothetically the Bible stayed the same along with the Christian religion. But Heaven and Hell switched places. If you believed in God and loved him, along with being a good person during your lifetime, you would join him in Hell after death, to suffer forever. How many Christians would still “love” their god, knowing that they would spend an eternity burning in Hell for doing so? The only thing driving Christians to say that they believe in and love this god is because they think there is a reward for doing so, sort of like sucking-up. Here is an analogy to put what I mean into perspective…

Let’s say this guy had an aunt that was a millionaire, she was an awful person and treated everyone like garbage. But he faked being nice to get money out of her; she believed that he was genuine so she left her fortune to him after she died. He tricked her because she was gullible enough to believe in his sincerity. The love towards his aunt was not genuine, if she had no money at all, he would want nothing to do with her. And the same goes for this god, if this god offered nothing, or an eternity in Hell for loving him, no one would love him.

There is zero evidence to even hint of the existence of any god, let alone the Christian god. There is no way that anyone can love something which they can’t even know exists (how could you know what you are loving?). Christians love the idea of Heaven, just like the person in my example loves the idea money. The Christians believe their god is gullible.

Discuss.

We can know, because he speaks to us. Yes people have heard the voice of God, no we’re not crazy, also I doubt God really cares if at first you’re just being a Christian for fire insurance, because no matter what you do if you go to church regularly and at least read the Bible even 10 minutes a day you’ll mature and learn to love God for God, not just for something to save you from Hell, honestly I’m amazed at how much atheists hate Christians, sadly I probably can’t blame y’all because most Christians hate the sinner not the sin, when it should be the other way around hate the sin love the sinner, and if you have examples of people not following this crucial rule then I’m very sorry. (Even though I have my own trouble following this crucial rule and for that I’m sorry too.)

One of the central views in Christianity is the idea that Jesus died for humanity’s sins. That way, every one who embraces god will be forgiven for their sins. You don’t get into heaven by being perfect, you get in by keeping the faith and being forgiven for your sins.

I’m not Christian, but I can certainly understand the basis for their beliefs. Christianity is not nearly as fallacious as people try to make it out to be.

The biblical God is a psychotic dictator with the temper of a two-year old and the mental faculties to match – if only the worst of his failings was mere gullibility.

As it stands, the concept is just laughable.

Yes people have heard the voice of God

Yes I have seen pink unicorns flying.

Yes I have seen pink unicorns flying.

I thought we were supposed to be mature in serious discussion. It’s only civil explaining to the person you quoted you think whatever they heard was something easily explained by science.

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Yes I have seen pink unicorns flying.

I thought we were supposed to be mature in serious discussion. It’s only civil explaining to the person you quoted you think whatever they heard was something easily explained by science.

Aloria is basically saying that they made unsupported claims that cannot be proven.

That’s a good comparison and also a hypothetical that I will use in my debates against Christians. I have always wondered if it really counts as being good if you do it to get rewarded or not punished, like kids with Santa, I saw a nice video on Youtube that said, if you would give a hobo money only to get a prize, or not get beaten up, was it a good act? I don’t really think so, I simply think it wasn’t bad.

Originally posted by FuzzyBacon:

The day you figure out how our atoms formed you let me know.

Will do. The day you prove even the tiniest bit of any major religion is anything but mysticism and BS, let me know.

At least the former is possible.

God will forgive you for all the crap you’ve done, you just have to believe in him (like truly believe in him, not just so you can get saved from hell and stuff like so many do) and WANT to be saved.

And if you’re wrong? As I’ve said before, there’s no evidence whatsoever for any sort of theistic god (i.e. one that wants worship).

Because really, that argument is based on an enormous pyramid of completely unprovable assumptions.

Look at it this way:

If i’m wrong, then oh well i spent a part of my life believing in a false-God.
If i’m right, i avoid Hell and get to spend eternity with God.

Originally posted by AioriaRox:

Yes people have heard the voice of God

Yes I have seen pink unicorns flying.

Now now don’t revert to childish forms of mocking.

Look at it this way:

Look at it this way – You’re gambling everything on a wager that God will accept believers who only wanted the reward of the afterlife.

I counter your Pascal’s Wager with an equally weak but far funnier Atheist’s Wager – What if god like honest atheists more than dishonest theists?

Look at it this way:

Oh lordy. That old chestnut.

Pascal’s Wager has been around for a while, and just as flawed now as it was then.

In short, it assumes that one of the following is true:

1. a benevolent god exists and punishes or rewards according to one’s belief, or
2. a god does not exist.

Here’s a handy little quote as to why this assumption is invalid:

Suppose there is a God who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth. For all others are untrustworthy, being cognitively or morally inferior, or both. They will also be less likely ever to discover and commit to true beliefs about right and wrong. That is, if they have a significant and trustworthy concern for doing right and avoiding wrong, it follows necessarily that they must have a significant and trustworthy concern for knowing right and wrong. Since this knowledge requires knowledge about many fundamental facts of the universe (such as whether there is a god), it follows necessarily that such people must have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about such things are probably correct. Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven — unless god wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy.