This is Why People Hate Religion.

At least in America. Never content to just hate others who are different based on personal interpretation, a number of religious leaders in the U.S. have decided to codify it.

Washington Post

The document itself. [PDF]

This is in some ways indicative of the nature of the modern religious right; reactionary, divisive, and drawing battle lines where none previously exist. I’m not exaggerating either – the document literally reads like a declaration of war.

Any thoughts on this?

Wow….you’re right, it does read like a declaration of war.

“D.C. Council member David A. Catania (I-At Large) said, “It’s a shame they don’t extend the same efforts to issues that really matter, like health care and homelessness.”

I think Catania really hit the mark.

What dumbasses, seriously, you can’t just ignore laws because they go against your beliefs unless they are hurting people.

Isn’t there something in the bible that specifically tells Christians to follow the laws of their countries?

I know there is in Islam, not sure about Christianity.

Originally posted by cobrakid:

What dumbasses, seriously, you can’t just ignore laws because they go against your beliefs unless they are hurting people.

They are saying not to practice it. You can be against laws (like being against firearms) and not practice it as well… however the wrong part is that they endorse it to everyone who follows them (much like a cult or as if they are they are their own state with rights to nullify laws).

however the wrong part is that they endorse it to everyone who follows them

Yeah I was concerned by that. I don’t know who’s who in the religious world, so I’m not sure how significant this will be in the long term. If anyone knows I would be interested in hearing.

The Cult of Christianity spreads!

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

however the wrong part is that they endorse it to everyone who follows them

Yeah I was concerned by that. I don’t know who’s who in the religious world, so I’m not sure how significant this will be in the long term. If anyone knows I would be interested in hearing.

I think a lot of the churches are divided within one another with issues of abortion and homosexuality. Maybe they might just split again…But this isn’t nearly as bad as that Reverend Jesse Jackson who preached: “You can’t be black and be against the health bill!” (Good God so much for the race card…I don’t even think it applies here..)

I’m an atheist, and I face discrimination toward those who feel I am one. No matter where I go. I’ve been to a lot of places in every permanently inhabited continent.

However, I feel that the United States, since the majority of its population is Christian, has the most discrimination toward atheists, despite it not being a Christian nation (in the sense that any of the constitutions in it advocate Christianity).

Europe, I think, has the least discrimination toward atheists, especially in western and northern nations.

Countries with low amounts of atheism or secular belief systems have lower GDPs (per capita), higher crime per capita and lower average IQ and education per capita. The obvious exceptions are Canada and the United States.

I don’t think people hate religion, but are less open toward it.

I am a catholic living in a community of atheists and I hear it ever day. Remember that microcosm don’t mean anything to the macrocosm. People discriminate indiscriminately, don’t put any stock in it.

As a “food for thought” for this thread, as one studies architectural history you’ll notice that as religions become more popular and start to spread the architecture of their buildings become more imperialistic and grandiose. Often this leads or stems from government sponsorship. So take that as you will, but it shows some interesting correlations.

Originally posted by burningcheez:

Isn’t there something in the bible that specifically tells Christians to follow the laws of their countries?

Romans 13:1-5
This is what I found.

Because we honor justice and the common good, we will not comply with any edict that purports to compel our
institutions to participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide and euthanasia, or any
other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat
them as marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we know it, about morality and
immorality and marriage and the family.

Much as I dislike religion… I actually agree with that, to a degree.

Expecting a church which views marriage as ‘a man and a woman’ to perform same-sex marriages is, to me, wrong. Suppose there was a ‘National Pork Day’ introduced into law, and everyone had to eat pork on that day. Would the religions which are against eating pork be forced to abide by it? You’d kind of expect them to run round burning pig farms and refusing the abide by the law, yes?

I’m in favour of same-sex marriage – but only if the church performing the marriage is happy to do so.

But when the ‘declaration’ is applied to individuals outside churches (doctors, government workers, health workers), I very much disagree with it.

Suppose there was a ‘National Pork Day’ introduced into law, and everyone had to eat pork on that day. Would the religions which are against eating pork be forced to abide by it? You’d kind of expect them to run round burning pig farms and refusing the abide by the law, yes?

Sorry I think that is strawman x.×. Also you cannot necessarily have everyone eat pork. Vegetarians would be pretty pissed as well.

So why do these churches have tax exempt status again?

Originally posted by burningcheez:

Isn’t there something in the bible that specifically tells Christians to follow the laws of their countries?

Give unto God what is God’s and give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. Something like that.

EDIT:

Originally posted by Yourmomma696969:

Romans 13:1-5
This is what I found.

Better find.

Originally posted by NeilSenna:

Because we honor justice and the common good, we will not comply with any edict that purports to compel our
institutions to participate in abortions, embryo-destructive research, assisted suicide and euthanasia, or any
other anti-life act; nor will we bend to any rule purporting to force us to bless immoral sexual partnerships, treat
them as marriages or the equivalent, or refrain from proclaiming the truth, as we know it, about morality and
immorality and marriage and the family.

Much as I dislike religion… I actually agree with that, to a degree.

Expecting a church which views marriage as ‘a man and a woman’ to perform same-sex marriages is, to me, wrong. Suppose there was a ‘National Pork Day’ introduced into law, and everyone had to eat pork on that day. Would the religions which are against eating pork be forced to abide by it? You’d kind of expect them to run round burning pig farms and refusing the abide by the law, yes?

I’m in favour of same-sex marriage – but only if the church performing the marriage is happy to do so.

But when the ‘declaration’ is applied to individuals outside churches (doctors, government workers, health workers), I very much disagree with it.

So if I found a religion whose doctrine is personal wealth brings us closer to a spiritual realization, further reasoning that taxes are a sin as they bring you further from this goal, then obviously I wouldn’t have to pay taxes anymore.

Expecting a church which views marriage as ‘a man and a woman’ to perform same-sex marriages is, to me, wrong.

Except no one is expecting them to. Marriage is a civil institution that churches choose to celebrate.

Originally posted by Carados:

So why do these churches have tax exempt status again?

“God wills it!” -Some Pope during some God forsaken crusade

Can someone quote the document? It freezes my computer when I try to go on it.

Originally posted by mariosuperlative:

Can someone quote the document? It freezes my computer when I try to go on it.

Here you go:

PREAMBLE:

Christians are heirs of a 2,000year
tradition of proclaiming God’s word, seeking justice in our
societies, resisting tyranny, and reaching out with compassion to the poor, oppressed and
suffering.
While fully acknowledging the imperfections and shortcomings of Christian institutions and
communities in all ages, we claim the heritage of those Christians who defended innocent life by
rescuing discarded babies from trash heaps in Roman cities and publicly denouncing the
Empire’s sanctioning of infanticide. We remember with reverence those believers who sacrificed
their lives by remaining in Roman cities to tend the sick and dying during the plagues, and who
died bravely in the coliseums rather than deny their Lord.
After the barbarian tribes overran Europe, Christian monasteries preserved not only the Bible but
also the literature and art of Western culture. It was Christians who combated the evil of slavery:
Papal edicts in the 16 th and 17 th centuries decried the practice of slavery and first
excommunicated anyone involved in the slave trade; evangelical Christians in England, led by
John Wesley and William Wilberforce, put an end to the slave trade in that country. Christians
under Wilberforce’s leadership also formed hundreds of societies for helping the poor, the
imprisoned, and child laborers chained to machines.
In Europe, Christians challenged the divine claims of kings and successfully fought to establish
the rule of law and balance of governmental powers, which made modern democracy possible.
And in America, Christian women stood at the vanguard of the suffrage movement. The great
civil rights crusades of the 1950s and 60s were led by Christians claiming the Scriptures and
asserting the glory of the image of God in every human being regardless of race, religion, age or
class.
This same devotion to human dignity has led Christians in the last decade to work to end the
dehumanizing scourge of human trafficking and sexual slavery, bring compassionate care to
AIDS sufferers in Africa, and assist in a myriad of other human rights causes – from providing
clean water in developing nations to providing homes for tens of thousands of children orphaned
by war, disease and gender discrimination.
Like those who have gone before us in the faith, Christians today are called to proclaim the
Gospel of costly grace, to protect the intrinsic dignity of the human person and to stand for the
common good. In being true to its own calling, the call to discipleship, the church through service
to others can make a profound contribution to the public good.

DECLARATION:

We, as Orthodox, Catholic, and Evangelical Christians, have gathered, beginning in New York on
September 28, 2009, to make the following declaration, which we sign as individuals, not on
behalf of our organizations, but speaking to and from our communities. We act together in
obedience to the one true God, the triune God of holiness and love, who has laid total claim on
our lives and by that claim calls us with believers in all ages and all nations to seek and defend
the good of all who bear his image. We set forth this declaration in light of the truth that is
MEDIA CONTACT:
Michelle Farmer or Amy Anderson
(770) 8130000
or (770) 7574900
cell
mfarmer@demossgroup.com
DeMossNews.com/ManhattanDeclaration
grounded in Holy Scripture, in natural human reason (which is itself, in our view, the gift of a
beneficent God), and in the very nature of the human person. We call upon all people of
goodwill, believers and nonbelievers
alike, to consider carefully and reflect critically on the issues
we here address as we, with St. Paul, commend this appeal to everyone’s conscience in the sight
of God.
While the whole scope of Christian moral concern, including a special concern for the poor and
vulnerable, claims our attention, we are especially troubled that in our nation today the lives of the
unborn, the disabled, and the elderly are severely threatened; that the institution of marriage,
already buffeted by promiscuity, infidelity and divorce, is in jeopardy of being redefined to
accommodate fashionable ideologies; that freedom of religion and the rights of conscience are
gravely jeopardized by those who would use the instruments of coercion to compel persons of
faith to compromise their deepest convictions.
Because the sanctity of human life, the dignity of marriage as a union of husband and wife, and
the freedom of conscience and religion are foundational principles of justice and the common
good, we are compelled by our Christian faith to speak and act in their defense. In this
declaration we affirm: 1) the profound, inherent, and equal dignity of every human being as a
creature fashioned in the very image of God, possessing inherent rights of equal dignity and life;
2) marriage as a conjugal union of man and woman, ordained by God from the creation, and
historically understood by believers and nonbelievers
alike, to be the most basic institution in
society and; 3) religious liberty, which is grounded in the character of God, the example of Christ,
and the inherent freedom and dignity of human beings created in the divine image.
We are Christians who have joined together across historic lines of ecclesial differences to affirm
our right—and, more importantly, to embrace our obligation—to speak and act in defense of
these truths. We pledge to each other, and to our fellow believers, that no power on earth, be it
cultural or political, will intimidate us into silence or acquiescence. It is our duty to proclaim the
Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in its fullness, both in season and out of season.
May God help us not to fail in that duty.

There’s a lot more to it, but this covers their intentions and reasons quite well. The rest is largely covered by the first link.

Originally posted by SaintAjora:

At least in America. Never content to just hate others who are different based on personal interpretation, a number of religious leaders in the U.S. have decided to codify it.

Washington Post

The document itself. [PDF]

This is in some ways indicative of the nature of the modern religious right; reactionary, divisive, and drawing battle lines where none previously exist. I’m not exaggerating either – the document literally reads like a declaration of war.

Any thoughts on this?

This is getting out of hand. These vocal groups in the church are some of the smallest and most annoying groups anywhere. But they are vocal, and they often have a radical agenda. The bishops and the priests say “Let there be healthcare! Do not shun the gays!” but the active groups ignore them and give us Christians a bad name. They selectively pick and choose their passages. They go with a strict interpretation of something that isn’t meant to be taken literally. They do draw battle lines, and I wish the Pope would excommunicate the lot. However, there is a gap in the beliefs of the Pope and the lower order (at least where I live). It does read like a declaration of war.