Cheat Engine (locked)

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Im not sure if this is important or not but……people can cheat on any online game using CHEAT ENGINE. My brother used cheat engine to get an impossible badge on super crazy guitar maniac delux 2.i fear that the people with CHEAT ENGINE will use it to get all sorts of cards to be the best kongai players on kongregate. somehow you gota make sure NOBODY on kongregate EVER uses CHEAT ENGINE……EVER!

……….and to those who DO use CHEAT ENGINE…….plz dont be mean to me

 
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It’s not possible without radically changing the way computers work.

The computer always has to know how to run the program; however, the user can change anything the computer knows.

 
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This topic should belong in the Games or Kongregate forum, but since you posted it here, I’ll try to swing it to a serious discussion.

First off, the objection is not really that relevant. People do it all the time and it’s very difficult to prevent. You can’t “make sure NOBODY on kongregate EVER uses CHEAT ENGINE” – it’s just silly. It’s a nice thought but isn’t really feasible, or even all that important. The badges are primarily for personal accomplishment and people want to cheat, well, shame on them, but it doesn’t really impact you. I have no respect for people who cheat/hack games, but that’s about all you can do about it. By the way, I changed the title to correct capitalization. Please avoid using all-caps in the forum, especially in the titles.

But what are people’s opinions of cheaters on here? Do you care if someone uses a cheat engine to get a badge? What about a walkthrough? Are we in a “let it be” environment, or do you really care? I’ll admit, it annoys the hell out of me when people post (or even link) walk-throughs to games, especially ones that are rather simple (like a puzzle game). It’s one thing for something like Final Fantasy where the game is huge and walkthrough is necessary to get everything.

Or am I making a distinction I shouldn’t be making?

 
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i like final fantasy and it does seem SO that it is possible

howcome kongregate cant make it that CHEAT ENGINE cant work?(or atleast not let you earn the badge)

 
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Do you care if someone uses a cheat engine to get a badge?

Not particularly. Besides, badges are for the feeling of accomplishment. They didn’t get that, their loss ;)

What about a walkthrough?

Nope – I myself use walkthroughs pretty often ;D

Are we in a “let it be” environment, or do you really care?

Don’t really care, nope :) As long as the cheaters’ score is removed from the high scores, so people who play games the fair way have a chance to reach the scores they couldn’t access, is all good.

EDIT FOR LATE POST:

howcome kongregate cant make it that CHEAT ENGINE cant work?

I’m pretty sure no website can, if I’m not mistaken. I don’t really know how these things work. But, the developer of the game I think can add some code to their script in which if the max score is beaten, x happens (Doesn’t send score or something..?)

 
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people can use the CHEAT ENGINE to earn a badge that they dont really earn,they just make the computer do it for them.cheats are supposed to be used when its compleatly nessesairy.or when u just want to have fun,thats what cheats are good for. i dont know any OTHER reasons for cheats,but i think those are very good reasons.

nd by the way,how old ARE you pheonix00017?

and im not just talking about the badges,im also talking about CARDS for kongai, ya know.

 
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Tmaster, weren’t you just against cheats? Now suddenly, you are saying that it is OK if it is necessary or when you want to have fun? Well, uh, getting a badge is as “necessary” as using cheats to get through a console game, so it seems like you are endorsing it (not that I am against it that much. Just delete the high scores.

 
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I think walkthroughs are a bit of a grey area. For some games it can get really really frustrating if you ‘just can’t kind find the next key’ or some such and hence can’t progress to play the rest of the game. Walkthroughs for some games are more of a guide to put you on the right track when you’ve tried but can’t figure out what the hell you are meant to be doing.

Then there are some walkthroughs which tell you how to do something but you still need skill at playing the game to be able to do it, so really i don’t count that as cheating that much either.

On the other hand there are walkthroughs for some puzzle games for which you just need to read the walkthrough and follow it step by step and have no skill or thought at all to be able to complete. Personally i don’t realy get the point of that, if it’s just for one level where you are really really stuck then fair enough and you can continue to play the rest of the game on your own but why follow a walkthrough step by step?

For me game playing is for fun, i like trying to work out what to do next or where to go or how to get that damn ball to go where i want in amberial and part of the pleasure of winning a game is due to the difficulty you had in playing it. If i used cheat engines/tampered with save files/solely relied on walkthroughs then it wouldnt be as much fun! So my opinion is that as long as they are not getting anything of real value (i.e. money/gifts etc) and they are not hampering the gameplay of anyone else then just let them be, it’s their own fun they’re ruining. (of course if its a multiplayer/high scores issue and the cheats are ruining it then its a different matter)

 
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Eh, it’s just an online games website. If cheating your score up to obscenely large numbers gets your rocks off, sure why not? It’ll probably get you banned, but surely you realized that beforehand.

 
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Tmaster – a couple of suggestions if you want anyone to take you seriously in these forums. First off, don’t double (or triple) post. There’s an “edit” button next to each post – if you want to change/add something, use that. Secondly, don’t use ALL CAPS – it’s annoying and makes you look immature (and will generally lead to people discounting your statements).

Bobo – Yeah, that tends to be my feeling. Using a walkthrough/cheat to get you past a particular stump, especially if you’ve actually spent some time on it (I get quite annoyed by people who spend 10 seconds on a puzzle and then give up and start spamming the chat room for hints), isn’t particularly offensive. Similarly, as you said, if the game has a significant skill component and you don’t particularly care about the puzzles, then fine (I Wanna Be The Guy is the example I have of a game that I do use walkthroughs occasionally for because it’s just that freakin’ hard!).

 
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IWBTG isn’t hard. It is evil!

 
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cheat engine is a memory editor. developers of the games can be creative and bury your stats and stuff so it’s harder to locate, or come up with ways to check things, but we can’t do anything in general as a website, unless we had some extra software you had to download and it watched what programs you had and whatever (which is what a lot of games like WoW and gunbound and maplestory do), but it’s a bit unreasonable for a free website to do that.

relatedly, we have stripped points off accounts, etc, for cheating.

 
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if they didnt want it to work wouldnt they use checksums, obviously its not kongregate staffs job to protect the games, its the developers

 
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IWBTG isn’t hard. It is evil!

Hehe, touche’! How far are you? I’m still stuck on Boss 2 (Birdo). Grrr…

 
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I only downloaded the demo. I got to Dr. Light on it (but AFAIK, he just lumps three bosses into one at the very end of the demo). I am thinking of downloading the full version. Anyway, the demo itself was pretty tough (the “impossible spike room” was particularly tricky, especially because the pattern changes and gets about triple length whenever you actually start jumping onto the appearing and disappearing blocks) and he had some pretty clever things in there (one room had a jump that looked JUST possible if you timed it right while you were on a rising block with a spiked ceiling, but it turns out you had to fall down a pit to a single block that would rise to safety. And even then the jump was tough.

Also, from what I heard, there are two paths on the full version, actually.

 
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First off Tmaster, I would like to direct you to the following forums; for reporting obviously cracked high scores see here and one of the more recent topics of unhackable games.

Now in response to your initial post of Cheat Engine: Cheat Engine can be used as a run time memory editing program for almost any process as far as I am aware, Flash games simply being one of these targets. Now in my somewhat limited understanding of computer architecture in general, there are no steps that Kongregate would be able to take to prevent that would allow any game not to be altered in some fashion using such a program as you are tapping into the actually memory used by your local PC and altering the values that specific memory locations contain at runtime without having to install an additional piece of software on your PC to monitor any programs also running, but for the true elite; this would not be a problem.

Thus, once again, the duty to make a game as ‘crack proof’ as possible lies in the hands of the developers. Such extreme measure can be taken by developers to make such games, through extreme levels of obfuscation, using multiple variables as checksums to an initial already well hidden value for the one attempting to be modified by the cracker, etc. to make the task of cracking the program much more difficult than actually acquiring it in a legitimate way; but there is no real advantage for many developers to go through this much work, when there are other ways in which such values can be modified (i.e. .sol editing or overriding the Kongregate API to send the desired data to Kongregate’s servers).

Kongregate has begun a process of cracking down on such users who obviously crack games as discussed in the aforementioned link, but there are those who are still intelligent enough to do so and stay under the radar by only entering legitimate values.

Furthermore, as Phoenix mentioned, there are various walkthroughs for many games in such genres as adventure style games, tower defense games, puzzle games and countless others; how is this method of acquiring a badge/card/points any different? Now there are certain games that I, through all my exhaustive attempts, needed to consult a walkthrough at some point, though I do not feel this puts me in the realm of cheating. Also, in the last week alone, I have aided dozens of persons in Shift 2, Synapsis, and Sonny (even though there are yet no badges for it) within chat. I do not even know if there were walkthroughs available at the time as I completed them all within a day of their release, as has been the case for many other puzzle related games that I defeated before they were given badges. Now does this make me or those whom I answer questions for cheaters? Would it be different if instead of answering one’s direct questions, I wrote a walkthrough on how to accomplish the same thing?

Greg chooses the badges and such based on the popularity of the game; so should games where a badge can be obtained by following a walkthrough be denied this honor as opposed to one that either requires fast reflexes or the ability to use third party software to crack the game, ultimately ending in the same result?

Wow, already 8 new posts since I started typing this. Will post now and re-comment.

 
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unless we had some extra software you had to download and it watched what programs you had and whatever (which is what a lot of games like WoW and gunbound and maplestory do)

Just fyi, WoW glider still works, despite Blizzard’s best efforts. IIRC they actually sued the creator on the rather spurious grounds that he couldn’t have made it work without infringing on their intellectual property.

Anyway, it is physically impossible to create an unhackable anything that runs on the client side. The user has unlimited power and unlimited access to their computer; any tricks programmers can come up with are easily examined by the person who owns the client machine. The hard part is that figuring out the tricks can be difficult; however, due to the miracles of the interwebnets, as soon as one person figures it out, everyone knows about it.

 
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There is a lot that can be done to prevent cheating…. obfuscation, checksums, offset values, hases etc. The problem is that there are so many tools available for vairable and memory editing, decompiling etc that whenever a new technique is developed, the information is generally made public and the cheaters are armed with the knowledge needed to develop a work around.

Personally I couldn’t care less about cheating. Levels and points hold no real value and the only accounts with serious points are the ones getting points via means that can’t be cheated i.e. referrals and game submissions.

 
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CONFESSION TIME!!!

I’ve hacked Kong games. Only a few times, though. A few examples include SCGMD2, Orbular, Streamline (more of glitched) and FPA. I realize the error of my ways now, and I am wrong. However, it really doesn’t matter, does it? And I agree with the current opinion on walkthroughs: good for when your insanely stuck, bad on skill-less puzzle games. I still us them on without even trying, though. I just had to get this off my chest. I’m sorry, Kongregate.

 
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OK, I can understand all of those (besides FPA: The badges were pretty easy) (and slightly streamline, but only because my brother discovered a non cheating method to instantly win with 5 lives), but you shouldn’t admit it.

 
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but you shouldn’t admit it.

No i think it’s better that he does! He’s not bragging about his cool dude haxor abilities merely confessing to something he now feels is wonrg. (unless im being naive and he’s being sarcastic that is).

 
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True. Not smart for him personally, unless admins feel some empathy.

 
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Yes, I was just saying sorry. Not being sarcastic. And I hacked FPA for the speed badge. I just feel guilty about all of it. And technically, If you “instantly win with 5 lives”, it’s cheating, you’re not playing through the game.

 
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My brother did it after I got the badges legitimatly.

 
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Ok guys, lets not get to finger pointing. I’m sure at some point all of us have used at least a walkthrough for some game or other on this site so in essence we are all guity of cheating. NOT mind you that im condoning it.