SUMKA and Iranian Nazism

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Apparently, there is a large following of the Nazi party known as SUMKA in Iran.

They want to toss out the dark skinned Balochs and minorities, establish a Persian supernation again, and get rid of Islam. They want to revert back to Zoroastrianism.

A Little Background on Their Founder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davud_Monshizadeh

He was a professor, in the SS, and protected the Fuehrer Bunker at the Battle of Berlin.

EDIT:

Some pictures of Davud Monshizadeh and their movement:

I had absolutely no idea that an Iranian Nazi Party existed.
What are your opinions on it? Should it be illegal? Do you appreciate their strive for their own cultural identity?

DISCUSS

Express you own viewpoint and stick to it! I appreciate any view on this.

 
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Doesn’t really surprise me… there probably aren’t many countries without some form of neo-Nazi organisation.

Don’t see any evidence for a large following though… this particular group seem about as large as a hermit’s Christmas card list. The other neo-Nazi groups in Iran seem the same, tiny and insignificant.

As for legality… unsavoury as their ideas are to me, I don’t see a pressing reason to ban them, unless they start actually doing bad stuff. Do I appreciate their striving for their own cultural identity… that depends entirely on what that identity is, and what they do in pursuit of it.

 
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Originally posted by NeilSenna:


Do I appreciate their striving for their own cultural identity… that depends entirely on what that identity is, and what they do in pursuit of it.

Well,they want to eliminate all Islamic and Arab culture from their society and revert to a totally Persian culture, language, and religion.

 
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Any more discussion?

 
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Now there’s a ghost from the past. I was quite surprised to see the name, because Monshizadeh’s SUMKA disbanded several decades ago due to lack of interest. I did a quick search of Al-Jazeera and a couple of Iranian news agencies, and can find nothing to suggest that the name has been revived, but that’s not to say that it hasn’t happened. The only possible and extremely tenuous evidence of organised Iranian neo-nazis that I could find is a handful of videos I found on YouTube of the Iranian crowd giving the Nazi salute while the German national anthem was being played at a Germany v Iran football match in 2004. Despite one heavily edited video trying to claim that the Iranians were expressing solidarity with their Aryan brothers (ROFL), this was certainly no more than an attempt by them to insult and antagonise the opposing supporters. It’s the sort of puerile gesture that you can rely on the dafter sections of the English crowd to make whenever we play the Germans at football.

Now, to go through your points:-

They want to toss out the dark skinned Balochs. The Baloch homeland is a mountainous area straddling Iran and Pakistan, in fact the majority of them live in Pakistan. So neo-nazis want to pick on an easily identified minority with no discernible political or economic clout – no surprises there, then.

They want to get rid of Islam. Islam is much more an everyday part of its adherents’ lives than Christianity is, even in a very religious country like America. So not a hope of achieving that.

They want to revert to Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrians have never been keen on converts to their religion, in fact those who live in India will not accept converts at any price. So again, not a hope.

Should it be illegal? Not really my problem, that is up to the Ayatollahs, and I imagine that they will just let this issue ride for the moment. Despite getting a bad press in the West, they are actually remarkably tolerant in many surprising ways, unless they are openly criticised. They do take a very dim view of that.

Striving for their own cultural identity. Well, which cultural identity? The lack of news stories about neo-nazis in Iran suggests to me that the “movement” is nothing more that a tiny rag-bag of extremists, malcontents and trouble makers, very likely from different cultural groups within the country, who each have their own cultural identity and agendas. About the only thing they are likely to have in common is their loathing for Arabs, both within and without Iran.

 
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“A group calling itself SUMKA and claiming to be direct heirs of the original still exists. Although it remains to be seen how far this revival extended beyond the internet. They now present their two main enemies as being Jews and Arabs, in keeping with the anti-Islamic and Aryan identity politics of the original party. This group is not connected to the equally minor Iranian National Socialist Party”

 
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if they really want to reach all that, they should move somewhere and live in isolation of the rest of the world. Otherwise it won’t happen. It’s like a goldfish trying to ban out sharks and whales.

 
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Iggy, that is interesting. I don’t suppose you found a web site for them, did you?

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

Iggy, that is interesting. I don’t suppose you found a web site for them, did you?

http://sumka.blogfa.com/

 
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Originally posted by beauval:

Now there’s a ghost from the past. I was quite surprised to see the name, because Monshizadeh’s SUMKA disbanded several decades ago due to lack of interest. I did a quick search of Al-Jazeera and a couple of Iranian news agencies, and can find nothing to suggest that the name has been revived, but that’s not to say that it hasn’t happened. The only possible and extremely tenuous evidence of organised Iranian neo-nazis that I could find is a handful of videos I found on YouTube of the Iranian crowd giving the Nazi salute while the German national anthem was being played at a Germany v Iran football match in 2004. Despite one heavily edited video trying to claim that the Iranians were expressing solidarity with their Aryan brothers (ROFL), this was certainly no more than an attempt by them to insult and antagonise the opposing supporters. It’s the sort of puerile gesture that you can rely on the dafter sections of the English crowd to make whenever we play the Germans at football.

Now, to go through your points:-

They want to toss out the dark skinned Balochs. The Baloch homeland is a mountainous area straddling Iran and Pakistan, in fact the majority of them live in Pakistan. So neo-nazis want to pick on an easily identified minority with no discernible political or economic clout – no surprises there, then.

They want to get rid of Islam. Islam is much more an everyday part of its adherents’ lives than Christianity is, even in a very religious country like America. So not a hope of achieving that.

They want to revert to Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrians have never been keen on converts to their religion, in fact those who live in India will not accept converts at any price. So again, not a hope.

Should it be illegal? Not really my problem, that is up to the Ayatollahs, and I imagine that they will just let this issue ride for the moment. Despite getting a bad press in the West, they are actually remarkably tolerant in many surprising ways, unless they are openly criticised. They do take a very dim view of that.

Striving for their own cultural identity. Well, which cultural identity? The lack of news stories about neo-nazis in Iran suggests to me that the “movement” is nothing more that a tiny rag-bag of extremists, malcontents and trouble makers, very likely from different cultural groups within the country, who each have their own cultural identity and agendas. About the only thing they are likely to have in common is their loathing for Arabs, both within and without Iran.

A. Regarding the Hitler salutes, are you sure it wasn’t German Neo-Nazis wearing Iranian Jerseys? There was an incident where during the world cup, Neo-Nazis showed up with Iranian Jerseys for some reason. Even if they were, they may have been genuinely saluting Hitler. Mein Kampf is a best seller in the Middle East.

B. Well, it is kind of like Mexicans in Arizona and New Mexico, if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Iggyshark:

“A group calling itself SUMKA and claiming to be direct heirs of the original still exists. Although it remains to be seen how far this revival extended beyond the internet. They now present their two main enemies as being Jews and Arabs, in keeping with the anti-Islamic and Aryan identity politics of the original party. This group is not connected to the equally minor Iranian National Socialist Party”

I’ve always wondered why it is harder for far-right groups to begin acting than far-left. Is it because the far-left has more followers?

I mean, the left has way more resources, but both sides have equal zeal.

 
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I’ve always wondered why it is harder for far-right groups to begin acting than far-left. Is it because the far-left has more followers?
I mean, the left has way more resources, but both sides have equal zeal.

Proof?

I am shocked that even the insane terrorists have their own insane group. Shocked. Really, I am. Honest.

… Surely you aren’t implying every single Iranian citizen is a terrorist? If you are, I have two words for you: Proof? and Bigot.

 
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Yarga.

Regarding the nazi salutes, I am very sure if wasn’t Germans dressed up as Iranians. International footy matches are all ticket affairts (i.e. if you just turn up on the day, you won’t get in), and crowds are strictly segregated to prevent fighting. Tickets for the Iranian section would have been on sale mainly in Iran, deliberately making them very difficult for Germans to obtain. Greeting German sporting rivals with a nazi salute is, sadly, still a common practice in Europe, and is virtually guaranteed to antagonise them – they are very, very ashamed of their past. While I can’t prove you wrong, I think the chances of your interpretation being the correct one are vanishingly small.

Kind of like Mexicans? I know there is a problem with illegal Mexicans entering the south west United States, but not being American I am not familiar with the local politics of that. Are you suggesting that throwing a people out of its traditional homeland is comparable with repatriating illegal immigrants? Surely not.

Harder for right wing groups to begin acting? I don’t think it is, but left wing groups have frequently been more high profile and successful, largely, I would imagine, because they were often funded and aided by the Russians.

2032.

Why so shocked? Many, if not most, terrorist groups have their political wings. Indeed, they are really a requirement if the terrorists are serious about creating change. Acts of terror are simply a demonstration of power and possible consequences. Politicians are needed to do the actual negotiations with the government being attacked.

 
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Originally posted by yarga7:

I’ve always wondered why it is harder for far-right groups to begin acting than far-left. Is it because the far-left has more followers?

I mean, the left has way more resources, but both sides have equal zeal.

One word… Hitler.

Even all these years later, ‘far-right’ conjures up images of murderous, evil racists, goosestepping around with a swastika tattoo. Nazism has killed the far-right, and made even the mention of it so repellent that even the far-right often tries to avoid the label. Membership of such a group makes a person a social pariah, so secrecy is almost always necessary. Making it near-impossible for them to ‘act’.

Whereas the far-left is seen as just being guys who protest lots, are a bit eccentric, but all in all are relatively harmless.

In the ‘west’, anyway.

 
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Originally posted by NeilSenna:
Originally posted by yarga7:

I’ve always wondered why it is harder for far-right groups to begin acting than far-left. Is it because the far-left has more followers?

I mean, the left has way more resources, but both sides have equal zeal.

One word… Hitler.

Even all these years later, ‘far-right’ conjures up images of murderous, evil racists, goosestepping around with a swastika tattoo. Nazism has killed the far-right, and made even the mention of it so repellent that even the far-right often tries to avoid the label. Membership of such a group makes a person a social pariah, so secrecy is almost always necessary. Making it near-impossible for them to ‘act’.

Whereas the far-left is seen as just being guys who protest lots, are a bit eccentric, but all in all are relatively harmless.

In the ‘west’, anyway.

I find Stalin and images of gulags far more repellent.

 
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Ofcourse it should be illegal, practicing this kind of nonsense isn’t good, a complete change will happen in Iran, and plus these Iranian Neo-Nazis say, just like I went to the page that IggyShark shared with us, thanks, they say that they want to get rid of Arabs and Muslims, this is stupid, and racist, I though that Nazism fell and will never stand, and I think Communists and Nazis are both racist, Nazis against race, Communists against Religion, from burning Jews and Negros to destroying Mosques and Churches, so I think both are a failure and are racist, but that was MY opinion and we are discussing :P.

 
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The problem with the page Iggy found is that it tells us nothing. The design is very amateurish, and the (poorly translated) English part says nothing about who these people are, where they are or how numerous they are. More to the point, there is nothing about how to join the party or make a donation. Possibly there is more information in the Farsi section, but unfortunately I can’t read that. This could very well be the work of one person finding an outlet for his racist views, or simply seeking attention.

 
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I trust this to no extent. It includes only a single link and is made by a holocaust denier.