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The new update seemed great, at least for most players. Why? Because the major % of players are in the bottom tiers of progression. Here is how I defined those tiers. The wave number is the highest reached. Obviously some people can be exceptions in every tiers.
### Lowest Tier  You start here
**Wave 050**
This is the first part of progression, everyone needs to go through it at least once and there is no shame to it. These players have yet to see the depth of the game. They probably never even tried to place a second tower. In this region any upgrade is significant.
### Low Tier  You probably prestiged
**Wave 50300**
At this point you probably have prestiged once. Maybe twice or even more who am I to judge. When in this tier when you prestige you get a certain amount of Aura levels that are kinda decent compared to the number you have. An upgrade is depending on it useful.
### Mid Tier  You went deep
**Wave 300700**
Yes this tier is really large. But people seemed to find 700+ to be insanly hard to get to. In here most upgrades are worthless and the game becomes really long to just do a steady progress. From this point prestige becomes a bit weird, it takes time to get back to your highest point and the bonus from it are low.
### High Tier  Most never got there
**Wave 700+**
Maybe you bled it all or something like this but this isn't the place you get on a short amount of time. Im not here to help those people, they probably notice the change.
### Yetun Tier  Nobody
**Wave 1000+**
He did it. He said it would take him millions of hit to kill a boss. Bleed was his way I guess. NOBODY except him claimed in chat he got there (well he had a proof).
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Okay so now Everybody should understand me when I speak tier wise. To make numbers simpler to understand and calculate I will be using round numbers AND dividing the 100% by 100 since it just means the same. I will also cut some bonus to lighten the formulas while keeping them the same overall.
### Old Formula
**BaseDMG + (Base x Aura)+ (Base x Blueprints) = FinalDMG**
Okay so how does this plays out? Take a player with minimal upgrades:
` 100 + ( 100 x 1) + ( 100 x 1) = 300`
Wow indeed that is minimal. a 100% increase with a blueprints and a 100% increase from auras.
Now lets give that player 10 levels of Aura of Ruin for another 100%.
`100 + ( 100 x 2) + ( 100 x 1) = 400`
Great! thats a 33% increase in stats. Now lets take a bigger player with like 5000% from his Auras already.
` 100 + ( 100 x 50) + ( 100 x 1) = 5200`
add the 100%
` 100 + ( 100 x 51) + ( 100 x 1) = 5300`
Yuck thats like 2% upgrade. That sucks. Tho someone that far will probably gain more than 100% Aura of Ruins if he prestige or whatever. But true nowhere a 33% upgrade.
### New Formula
**BaseDMG x ((1 + Aura) x (1 + Blueprints)) = FinalDMG**
This I might have gotten it wrong but the 1 + is needed to not have a 0 anywhere that would make the finalDMG equal to 0.
Okay so how does this plays out? Take the same player with minimal upgrades:
` 100 x (( 1 + 1) x ( 1 + 1)) = 400`
Okay just here we see its more DMG than the initial. But take in mind enemies hp were scaled up too.
Now lets give that player 10 levels of Aura of Ruin for again another 100%.
` 100 x (( 1 + 2) x ( 1 + 1)) = 600`
Damm that a 50% increase from the same upgrade. That guy must be really happy. But lets see our big guy.
` 100 x (( 1 + 50) x ( 1 + 1)) = 10200`
Oh god the dmg is double than the first formula. But hey keep in mind the enemies scale higher too or we would not be have this conversation and Id be soaring in Yetun's tier (there is also another reason I'm not that ill cover later).
So now add the 100%
` 100 x (( 1 + 51) x ( 1 + 1)) = 10400`
Humm whut? Did I just gain 200 DMG only? Yes you did since the other multiplier did not raise you just got a really boring upgrade. Btw it is still a 2% upgrade...
So what gain is it for us later in progression? Well, if instead of an Aura it was the blueprint that raised
` 100 x (( 1 + 50) x ( 1 + 2)) = 15300`
Damm that is actually a decent upgrade. 50% just by adding 100% in a blueprint. Okay This sound great but do you really think a Mid+ player will only have a cumulative 100% blueprint bonus? I don't think so. So ill take my my level of Heavy assault (not counting the second bonus on it) which gives me 1000%. If I would like to increase it of 25% I would need 12k diamonds. Probably close to 70k for that additionnal 100%. Basically a wave 700 prestige.
So here in numbers
` 100 x (( 1 + 50) x ( 1 + 10)) = 56100`
` 100 x (( 1 + 50) x ( 1 + 11)) = 61200`
Hmm I see something weird. But 100% normal. I increased by the same amount as previously but instead of being 50% its like a 10% increase...
### So what should I understand?
**Yes** the new formula gives you more DMG per upgrade **but** like with the previous one it goes down as time pass.
### Then what is it?
Well the hp of enemies has scaled WAY WAY up to compensate for this. Don't ask numbers I did not take time to note them. All I know is that for wave 743 they went from being in the *mm* to be in the *ao*. Comparing, that would be 1 000 000 x more hp.
### Other side effect
Did you have a tower over level 500? Well you got screwed. I got a "I don't think so" from Tbiz when I asked him if the tower rebalanced themselves after the update. What I mean is that the Master talent you get at level 500 instead of 250 has changed. It now gives x40 instead of x3 per 250. Basically your towers got at least 4x weaker than they were forcing you to prestige most likely. I was as I had passed tower lvl 1000 wich meant I did not have x1600 power but x81.
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**TL;DR 1085 words to say that the changes are good from lowest to mid tier at most. The time investment to reach back High tier is way higher than the time invested to reach it previously.**
Yes I also understand people like it harder, but those people are also the ones who want simpler usage of skills... Guys do you want it easy or hard?


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The reason the formulas still give a diminishing return, is due to how the mathematics works out.
**Edit:**
I okay I was wrong on this one, the ruby ugrades stack with themselves multiplicatively, so for for instance, you should always get 3x your *current* DPS when buying the ruby damage upgrade (meaning base damage is increased 3x, 9x, 27x, as was explained to me.)
But, let's take a fictitious scenario where some multiplier sums together for damage, the first 3x damage multiplier truly increases your DPS by 3x, however the second one only increases it by 2x and the third one only increases it by 1.5x. This is because we are adding the purchased multipliers together and then multiplying by the base damage and we are not multiplying the multipliers with themselves and then with the base damage. I can show this in the following example, assuming your base DPS is 100 (for simplicity sake),
 First multiplier is 3x: 100 x 3 = 300  The increase you feel is 300/100 = 3x increase
 Second multiplier is 3x totalling 6x: 100 x 6 = 600  However, the increase you feel is 600/300 = 2x increase
 Third multiplier is 3x totalling 9x: 100 x 9 = 900  However, the increase you feel is 900/600 = 1.5x increase
As you can see yes you increase the *base DPS* by 3x, then 6x, then 9x, but from the player's view the increase is happening on *current DPS* which is and icnrease of 3x, then 2x, then 1.5x.
This is what happens with the new damage formula even though it's now multiplicative and not additive.
**BaseDMG x ((1 + Aura) x (1 + Blueprints)) = FinalDMG**
Sure it's great because now all three terms are multiplied (*BaseDMG **x** ((1 + Aura) **x** (1 + Blueprints)) = FinalDMG*), but once you start increasing the aura and blueprints (*BaseDMG x ((1 + **Aura**) x (1 + **Blueprints**)) = FinalDMG*) you start running into the same problem I described above. Let's say you upgrade your Aura from 3x to 6x and the same with Blueprints from 3x to 6x, both terms only increased by 2x from their previous 3x, and you end up with only a 4x overall increase.
**Summary**
In the instance of the formulas used in this game and many other incremental games, the value of 1 aura level and the value of 1% increase in base damage, from blueprint, becomes less and less the more aura levels and blueprint percent increases you already have, regardless of whether the overall formula is additive or multiplicative. This is becuase separate bonuses (aura and blueprint) are multiplied together, but individual bonus are still a sum total.
**Conclusion**
I bascally just rehashed what you've said, but I wanted to clarify why the returns are still diminishing. As well, I agree with you. The new DPS formula has increase player DPS significantly, but the enemy health increase may have be made too high, meaning the net result is a nerf to the player.


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> *Originally posted by **[Xerc15](/forums/922545/topics/766215?page=1#11262548)**:*
> The reason the formulas still give a diminishing return, is due to how the mathematics works out.
>
> For instance, if the damage multipliers **(that are bought with rubies)** sum together, the first 3x damage multiplier truly increases your DPS by 3x, however the second one only increases it by 2x and the third one only increases it by 1.5x.
Just to clarify one thing, the boosts bought by rubies are always multiplicative. So they go x3, x9, x27... But still for the rest everything is great.
Also to note Ill probably have to rewrite some of my conclusion as he just changed the enemy hp formula.


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FWIW, high tier experience: upgraded from high tier position prefumenerf version, around 750. New version went **much** easier, now at 800 and counting. Before I was drudging through with fume combos, now the kids don't even need me anymore... :(


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>Just to clarify one thing, the boosts bought by rubies are always multiplicative. So they go x3, x9, x27...
Alright cool! I haven't gotten far enough to have 2 of any of the ruby upgrades and was curious about how it stacked. I only have 1 damage upgrade, 1 gold upgrade, and 1 diamond upgrade, :[ lol.
>Also to note Ill probably have to rewrite some of my conclusion as he just changed the enemy hp formula.
I've got refresh my page and see how it goes.
