> _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13139221):**_ > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138951):**_ > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138570):**_ > > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138078):**_ > > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13134886):**_ > > > > > Joust Champ vs Chillbeards > > > > > > > > > > They are same card with **different** **ability** and **condition**, like Veteran Of War vs Sharpfist Exile. > > > > > > > > > > Chillbeards 9 mana while Joust only 8. > > > > > Make them both at 8 mana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true, Joust has greater potential value (against non base targets), can attack from multiple angles, has worse value when attacking a high enough strength unit to kill it completely on the first attack, has less value after attacking in terms of strength usually, and has an on attack ability that can potentially threaten units while still on the board. > > > > > > > > So... nope, they have different practical usages, even Veterans and Sharpfist Exiles are different from a practical standpoint. > > > > > > So why Joust 8 mana and chillbeard 9? What makes chillbeard 1 mana higher? > > > > Chillbeards is more versatile, especially with it’s potential to deal heavy base damage/rush a large unit in general and easily retain value in strength, which helps it survive to be able to be buffed and used in combos or keep a strategic position. > > Let's make comparisons > > **Joust** > - 8 mana > - 2 spd > - 7 str (lvl 5) > - before atk, deal 7 dmg to enemy **unit** or **structure** > - deals dmg from 8 to 14 when attacking > - gain best advantages with str boost card (moment of peace, etc) > - offensive card > > **Chillbeards** > - 9 mana > - 2 spd > - 8 str (lvl 5) > - when played in **front** of enemy **unit**, gain 8 str > - deals damage from 8 (if no enemy unit in front) to 16 when attacking (if played in front of enemy unit) > - bad when used to atk enemy in side, especially when defending base > - both offensive and defensive card but require a condition Did you read my entire post? This more to it than that, and I think it’s fine if there are somewhat similar cards in the game.

> _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13142357):**_ > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13139221):**_ > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138951):**_ > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138570):**_ > > > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138078):**_ > > > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13134886):**_ > > > > > > Joust Champ vs Chillbeards > > > > > > > > > > > > They are same card with **different** **ability** and **condition**, like Veteran Of War vs Sharpfist Exile. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chillbeards 9 mana while Joust only 8. > > > > > > Make them both at 8 mana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true, Joust has greater potential value (against non base targets), can attack from multiple angles, has worse value when attacking a high enough strength unit to kill it completely on the first attack, has less value after attacking in terms of strength usually, and has an on attack ability that can potentially threaten units while still on the board. > > > > > > > > > > So... nope, they have different practical usages, even Veterans and Sharpfist Exiles are different from a practical standpoint. > > > > > > > > So why Joust 8 mana and chillbeard 9? What makes chillbeard 1 mana higher? > > > > > > Chillbeards is more versatile, especially with it’s potential to deal heavy base damage/rush a large unit in general and easily retain value in strength, which helps it survive to be able to be buffed and used in combos or keep a strategic position. > > > > Let's make comparisons > > > > **Joust** > > - 8 mana > > - 2 spd > > - 7 str (lvl 5) > > - before atk, deal 7 dmg to enemy **unit** or **structure** > > - deals dmg from 8 to 14 when attacking > > - gain best advantages with str boost card (moment of peace, etc) > > - offensive card > > > > **Chillbeards** > > - 9 mana > > - 2 spd > > - 8 str (lvl 5) > > - when played in **front** of enemy **unit**, gain 8 str > > - deals damage from 8 (if no enemy unit in front) to 16 when attacking (if played in front of enemy unit) > > - bad when used to atk enemy in side, especially when defending base > > - both offensive and defensive card but require a condition > > Did you read my entire post? This more to it than that, and I think it’s fine if there are somewhat similar cards in the game. What you are saying is you are basically agree with me and also contradict with yourself. What do you mean by this : "joust has greater potential value"... But "chill is more versatile".? And again, If they're similiar, then why they're different in mana cost?

> _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13143271):**_ > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13142357):**_ > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13139221):**_ > > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138951):**_ > > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138570):**_ > > > > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138078):**_ > > > > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13134886):**_ > > > > > > > Joust Champ vs Chillbeards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are same card with **different** **ability** and **condition**, like Veteran Of War vs Sharpfist Exile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chillbeards 9 mana while Joust only 8. > > > > > > > Make them both at 8 mana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true, Joust has greater potential value (against non base targets), can attack from multiple angles, has worse value when attacking a high enough strength unit to kill it completely on the first attack, has less value after attacking in terms of strength usually, and has an on attack ability that can potentially threaten units while still on the board. > > > > > > > > > > > > So... nope, they have different practical usages, even Veterans and Sharpfist Exiles are different from a practical standpoint. > > > > > > > > > > So why Joust 8 mana and chillbeard 9? What makes chillbeard 1 mana higher? > > > > > > > > Chillbeards is more versatile, especially with it’s potential to deal heavy base damage/rush a large unit in general and easily retain value in strength, which helps it survive to be able to be buffed and used in combos or keep a strategic position. > > > > > > Let's make comparisons > > > > > > **Joust** > > > - 8 mana > > > - 2 spd > > > - 7 str (lvl 5) > > > - before atk, deal 7 dmg to enemy **unit** or **structure** > > > - deals dmg from 8 to 14 when attacking > > > - gain best advantages with str boost card (moment of peace, etc) > > > - offensive card > > > > > > **Chillbeards** > > > - 9 mana > > > - 2 spd > > > - 8 str (lvl 5) > > > - when played in **front** of enemy **unit**, gain 8 str > > > - deals damage from 8 (if no enemy unit in front) to 16 when attacking (if played in front of enemy unit) > > > - bad when used to atk enemy in side, especially when defending base > > > - both offensive and defensive card but require a condition > > > > Did you read my entire post? This more to it than that, and I think it’s fine if there are somewhat similar cards in the game. > > What you are saying is you are basically agree with me and also contradict with yourself. > > What do you mean by this : "joust has greater potential value"... But "chill is more versatile".? > > And again, > If they're similiar, then why they're different in mana cost? I still don’t understand what the confusion is about. They’re similar in the fact that they are high value 2 speed units, but that doesn’t mean they’re inherently equal in power, Warfront Runners and Bluesail Raiders are similar, but aren’t the same mana cost for a reason. Joust is better in terms of overall value given the right conditions, but Chillbeards is inherently more versatile from a stats perspective due to the value not being separated between attacks and its capacity to deal heavy damage to the base.

> _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13144431):**_ > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13143271):**_ > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13142357):**_ > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13139221):**_ > > > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138951):**_ > > > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138570):**_ > > > > > > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13138078):**_ > > > > > > > > _Originally posted by **[YippieK](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=39#13134886):**_ > > > > > > > > Joust Champ vs Chillbeards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are same card with **different** **ability** and **condition**, like Veteran Of War vs Sharpfist Exile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chillbeards 9 mana while Joust only 8. > > > > > > > > Make them both at 8 mana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true, Joust has greater potential value (against non base targets), can attack from multiple angles, has worse value when attacking a high enough strength unit to kill it completely on the first attack, has less value after attacking in terms of strength usually, and has an on attack ability that can potentially threaten units while still on the board. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... nope, they have different practical usages, even Veterans and Sharpfist Exiles are different from a practical standpoint. > > > > > > > > > > > > So why Joust 8 mana and chillbeard 9? What makes chillbeard 1 mana higher? > > > > > > > > > > Chillbeards is more versatile, especially with it’s potential to deal heavy base damage/rush a large unit in general and easily retain value in strength, which helps it survive to be able to be buffed and used in combos or keep a strategic position. > > > > > > > > Let's make comparisons > > > > > > > > **Joust** > > > > - 8 mana > > > > - 2 spd > > > > - 7 str (lvl 5) > > > > - before atk, deal 7 dmg to enemy **unit** or **structure** > > > > - deals dmg from 8 to 14 when attacking > > > > - gain best advantages with str boost card (moment of peace, etc) > > > > - offensive card > > > > > > > > **Chillbeards** > > > > - 9 mana > > > > - 2 spd > > > > - 8 str (lvl 5) > > > > - when played in **front** of enemy **unit**, gain 8 str > > > > - deals damage from 8 (if no enemy unit in front) to 16 when attacking (if played in front of enemy unit) > > > > - bad when used to atk enemy in side, especially when defending base > > > > - both offensive and defensive card but require a condition > > > > > > Did you read my entire post? This more to it than that, and I think it’s fine if there are somewhat similar cards in the game. > > > > What you are saying is you are basically agree with me and also contradict with yourself. > > > > What do you mean by this : "joust has greater potential value"... But "chill is more versatile".? > > > > And again, > > If they're similiar, then why they're different in mana cost? > > I still don’t understand what the confusion is about. They’re similar in the fact that they are high value 2 speed units, but that doesn’t mean they’re inherently equal in power, Warfront Runners and Bluesail Raiders are similar, but aren’t the same mana cost for a reason. Joust is better in terms of overall value given the right conditions, but Chillbeards is inherently more versatile from a stats perspective due to the value not being separated between attacks and its capacity to deal heavy damage to the base. Dude, warfront and bluesail is differ in str, that's why blue has 1 more mana. They has exact 1 str to explain the mana difference. Chillbeards is weak vs building, while joust just destroy them easily without reducing its str. Chillbeards ability does not trigger if no enemy UNIT in front, why joust is pretty simple to use. Joust is 8 mana while chill is 9. If u don't get it, that's okay.

> _Originally posted by **[Kinovar](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13148710):**_ > Herald's call is too strong, let its properties not apply to the last line, otherwise the gameplay is too unbalanced. It’s pretty much a dead card unless you use it as a finisher, only if you have some really heavy units can it be decently useful otherwise, so I disagree.

It's actually not a dead card at all. Plus who said this was a finisher??? The players or the devs? HH can command any unit to move a whole row forward. That doesn't mean it has be used to close out the game. However things change depending player psychology and the meta. Do some card history and review the function of the card vs the state of the card.

Hi, I came here to speak about balancing on some cards, I’m speaking of Edrick (The legendary one) I think it it’s rlly good as it is but it could improve a lil more bc it isn’t rlly useful as other legendary cards, I’m not speaking of something like 3 units but maybe add a movent to it or something lile that.

> _Originally posted by **[Hollow__](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13152641):**_ > It's actually not a dead card at all. Plus who said this was a finisher??? The players or the devs? HH can command any unit to move a whole row forward. That doesn't mean it has be used to close out the game. However things change depending player psychology and the meta. > > Do some card history and review the function of the card vs the state of the card. Unfortunately you misunderstood me on multiple points (but on further thought, it’s understandable since my wording was easy to misinterpret): It’s a dead card *in your hand,* (not in general) quite often, that doesn’t mean it can’t be very useful every now and then, but I really don’t think its unbalanced. Additionally, just because I called it a finisher doesn’t mean that’s always its *exact* purpose, but in general it can lead to a victory with enough units, when it potentially wouldn’t have otherwise.

The winter deck legendary card The lady of ice (cost 5) it’s so OP it should a debuff ASAP, there’s no way of killing something who can het over 10 HP with only 8, and it only gets worse when it can get over 20hp so easily.

Please lower the health of level four victors of the melee to five health instead of six health. Level FIVE victors of the melee should have six health. At level four, you can use victors of the melee as a quite effective tank, albeit a wasted use of the card. But _please_ do this. _please_

Shadowfen does not have direct base damage. Every other kingdom does. Shadowfen has only one kingdom unit capable of moving 2 spaces that has the potential to do significant base damage, and this is one of the newest cards added to the game. Please consider giving Shadowfen a direct base damage option, or more "finisher" options.

> _Originally posted by **[innatealloy6](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13153233):**_ > The winter deck legendary card The lady of ice (cost 5) it’s so OP it should a debuff ASAP, there’s no way of killing something who can het over 10 HP with only 8, and it only gets worse when it can get over 20hp so easily. Lady Rime can easily got beaten by common card. I think u know that card. Or, try to get Siren

> _Originally posted by **[Anon454](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13154112):**_ > Shadowfen does not have direct base damage. > Every other kingdom does. > Shadowfen has only one kingdom unit capable of moving 2 spaces that has the potential to do significant base damage, and this is one of the newest cards added to the game. > > Please consider giving Shadowfen a direct base damage option, or more "finisher" options. It’s confirmed that one will be added in the future by one of the devs.

Balance: Edrik the fierce is way too under powered at level 1-2 and does not make a significant impact on the game at levels 4-5. As a legendary, i wish Edrik would have some kind of special impact on the game that would introduce a somewhat new concept into the game. In all honesty, Edrik in most games will be a 4 mana Dreadfaun when played correctly at a good time. However, in most games Edrik ends up being a dead card in your hand, filling up a space in your deck while you patiently wait for the perfect moment to place him down. Edrik is too influenced by how the enemy player sets up his units, something that the weider of Edrik has almost no control over (unless if the player is using ironclad and move the enemy units using ozone purifiers but even then it is vey difficult). Edrik currently is so much of a situational card that most people will never put him into a deck (in fact i have not seen one edrik the fierce). Edrik really needs a buff of some kind and ill place some ideas of mine here. Changes: idea 1: change his ability radius by 2 so that it is easier to fuffill his ability requirements. (maybe makes him a bit too op then) idea 2: Since he is the leader of the knights faction, he could empower the knights, for a turn, making all knight cards played have their attack/health increased by a set number (2,2,3,3,4). this change could really help out the knight faction into having their own specific deck. idea 3: my most special idea that has never been seen in stormbound before is a level buffing card. playing on idea 2, Edrik will empower his knight bretheren, making all knight cards played on that turn (after edrik) a higher level (1,1,1,2,2). this idea seems very powerful and to counteract this we should reduce his own attack value by 2 at all levels. Edril really needs some love and as the signature knight hero, i feel like he really needs some kind of major change because right now, hes no better than a Dreadfaun. PS. i wrote this all on my iphone se so if i have spelling mistakes my bad.

> _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13155425):**_ > > It’s confirmed that one will be added in the future by one of the devs. Sweet!

**Ariez the Double Dealer** Legendary 4 mana 4/5/6/7/8 strength Pirate 1 speed On play, trade this card into your opponent’s **deck** and add the first enemy unit in front to your own.

> _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13157404):**_ > **Ariez the Double Dealer** > > Legendary > > 4 mana > > 4/5/6/7/8 strength > > Pirate > > 1 speed > > On play, trade this card into your opponent’s **deck** and add the first enemy unit in front to your own. Cool concept. Though I think adding a card into your opponent's deck truly ruins their deck and the ramifications of that can be totally game breaking. Way too powerful of a move for 4 mana. Would be an enjoyable way to counter Winter stall decks though... I also think it would be awesome to see some legendary pirates -- even cooler if there was a whole series of them based on kingdom units. As pirates they'd still be neutral, but it would be fun to have a rodent pirate, Raven pirate, satyr pirate, and dwarf pirate. That said, at least one pirate legendary is needed.

> _Originally posted by **[Anon454](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13157896):**_ > > _Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13157404):**_ > > **Ariez the Double Dealer** > > > > Legendary > > > > 4 mana > > > > 4/5/6/7/8 strength > > > > Pirate > > > > 1 speed > > > > On play, trade this card into your opponent’s **deck** and add the first enemy unit in front to your own. > > Cool concept. > Though I think adding a card into your opponent's deck truly ruins their deck and the ramifications of that can be totally game breaking. Way too powerful of a move for 4 mana. Would be an enjoyable way to counter Winter stall decks though... > > I also think it would be awesome to see some legendary pirates -- even cooler if there was a whole series of them based on kingdom units. As pirates they'd still be neutral, but it would be fun to have a rodent pirate, Raven pirate, satyr pirate, and dwarf pirate. > > That said, at least one pirate legendary is needed. Thanks for the feedback, your opponent would be given the ability to steal your own cards and play the unit, so it’s not without drawbacks.

> *Originally posted by **[LordDracqi](/forums/955765/topics/912823?page=40#13153100)**:* > Unfortunately you misunderstood me on multiple points (but on further thought, it’s understandable since my wording was easy to misinterpret): > > It’s a dead card *in your hand,* (not in general) quite often, that doesn’t mean it can’t be very useful every now and then, but I really don’t think its unbalanced. Additionally, just because I called it a finisher doesn’t mean that’s always its *exact* purpose, but in general it can lead to a victory with enough units, when it potentially wouldn’t have otherwise. In actuality you are misinterpreting the purpose of why said this: ​ Is it a dead card... No, as long as there is a unit present on the board and you have 6+ mana this not a dead card. A dead card is something that is that has lost its use. Although the usefulness wanes, HH still has its uses without the feeling of complete waste. Take GotW after 20 mana, unless you are stacking a lot of high mana cards or have cards with a mana sink, GotW is dead. It serves no other purpose but giving you mana ( an abundance that you already have). Poison application on board that full of poison targets. If you play with Poison, you will see that applying more poison to a full board of does absolutely nothing at all. Not even an animation is played. However, does not mean the card entirely "dead" but ability-wise, they are dead until the next units are played comes out. IronClad Push/Pull has the same type of avail if their enemies stack behind each other (outside of Flaming Stream). ​ That leads me to the next part "Who said this was a finisher?" Again, this not solely directed to you but instead a question to all. Why are people so tied with only using this card to win? When did it becomes the sole win button that many Swarm decks can't go without or feels if they are lack when not in presence? Fun Fact: Did you know players used to keep this card in their hand once they got it. That is the type of stigma this card had prior to its change. For a card that can be used anyway on the board on any unit on 6 mana and above, it seems like boots are tied to the opponent's baseline. ​ If you don't know this card used to be 5 mana and boost a whole row of the units. Meaning this card used to overkill opponents in the past (at all levels). Having at least 2 units on the baseline guarantee victory. It really was a win button. However, was that dev's intended purpose? Was it sole meaning to but use on the baseline to close the game or was just a benefit of a strong command card? Right now the changes that occurred to HH happened to due to player interaction with as a win condition, not from plain general use, so nowadays it has taken of the shape of win condition, but I still doubt that was the initial route of this card. I'm mostly saying this into ether anyway.

Destructobots should only deal damage to non-construct friendly units.

> _Originally posted by **[Montezuma300](/forums/941638/topics/912823?page=40#13177940):**_ > Destructobots should only deal damage to non-construct friendly units. Why? It’s already generally better than Gifted Recruits for example.

So does anyone not play winter pact that shits sooo OP literally everyone just sits back and turtles no skill no synergy soooo fucking boring fix winter pact.... 8 games in a row against em I wonder why everyone at high rank plays em...