Recent posts by garin on Kongregate

Topic: Game Programming / [AS3] [Performance] Function call speed

You don’t need to lecture me, I have a degree in computer science and program games for a living.

It’s good that this information is available, don’t get me wrong. If you’re writing a particle system or something that might get called thousands of times per frame, this could be a useful reference.

But when (as I suspected) you advocate using it throughout your project, you’ve gone off the deep end a bit. It’s not important. Most of your program won’t be slow enough to matter, focus optimization on the parts that are.

This guy backs me up: http://the-witness.net/news/2011/06/how-to-program-independent-games/

Topic: Game Programming / [AS3] [Performance] Function call speed

Originally posted by skyboy:

Originally posted by garin:

What are you guys working on that requires this level of optimization?

Knowing what’s fast and slow can help you to write better code from the start, instead of going back and optimizing it after you write it. Saves work and gets better results.

A focus on premature optimization can also waste programmer time and make your code less readable and modular. To each his own, I was just curious if there was a specific application in mind.

Topic: Game Programming / [AS3] [Performance] Function call speed

What are you guys working on that requires this level of optimization?

Topic: General Gaming / New Monsters Den Godfall (3) releases soon

I don’t think of Chronicles as a “teaser” game. It’s bigger than either of the first two games.

I know I haven’t updated much lately, but I’ve been putting all my energies into development. This is my full-time job, and I’m not screwing around. Thanks for hanging in there.

Topic: Kongregate / I DON'T PLAY CAEASARY

Think about it. If the kreds are used to tip developers, or to make purchases in third party games, where do you think the real money that’s paid comes from?

Topic: Kongregate / I am kind of pissed off about kreds

Originally posted by hot_dog:

I would love to see Kong cards on the shelves of Target.

http://ultimategamecard.playspan.com/

Topic: Kongregate / I am kind of pissed off about kreds

Originally posted by Caderyn:

To all those complaining that Kongregate will go bankrupt without Kreds – if, like Kongregate maintains, ALL proceeds from Kreds go to developers, then Kongregate isn’t getting money off of the Kred system. This means that the overwhelming majority of Kongregate’s funding should be coming from ads. And since there are very few people that want to play flash games that they have to pay for, I can’t imagine that having so many pay-to-play games on an ostensibly “free” game website is going to be good for pulling in internet content.

The full value of a ‘tip’ using Kreds goes to the developer, but Kongregate does get a share of other Kreds payments. It’s definitely a useful money-spinner for the site.

It’s true that a small minority of users pay for anything, and end up subsidizing the rest who don’t. All free-to-play systems end up working this way, and it’s a fairly proven and successful model at this point.

Kongregate will continue to get great content because the revenue-sharing they offer is very appealing to developers.

Topic: Kongregate / Free to play games with "an optional advantage for Real Money." Do We Want This?

The disconnect, I think, is that for you there doesn’t seem to be any distance between “natural desire to earn money” and “profit as sole motivator which dominates the game design”.

Topic: Kongregate / Free to play games with "an optional advantage for Real Money." Do We Want This?

I’m tired of doing the quote thing so I’ll just respond normally.

There’s a difference between surviving and living comfortably, and where that line is will vary from person to person and through different stages of their life. I could keep myself afloat with advertising and sponsorships, but it’s fairly harrowing and limits what I can do. I could never buy a house or support a family, for instance.

Nobody is saying that every developer is entitled to huge wads of cash just because they made a game. But when even the top developers in the field (guys with many more gameplays than me) are making only a modest living under the sponsorship model, it illustrates how low things are skewed.

Luckily, there are ways of doing things that can make it more financially viable: the shareware model (which you so blithely dismiss, but has had great success in Flash games like Auditorium and Fantastic Contraption) and the microtransaction model. You think we should forgo these methods out of a misguided sense of honour and content ourselves with being serfs, meekly accepting the ghettoization of Flash gaming. “Oh well, I guess we chose the wrong platform.” No, man. Fuck that.

My games are as valid as those on other platforms, and have considerably wider reach. Book of Dread’s been played over 17 million times, which must be at least a few hundred thousand people I’ve entertained, for free. Now it’s greedy, or morally reprehensible, to give them an opportunity to pay me for that entertainment? With numbers like that, using more mature monetization options, I would be reasonably well-off. I certainly wouldn’t be agonizing so much about the budget of my next game, and whether adding more art (for a better game) is worth the risk of losing my apartment a few months down the line.

You can keep your Halo-themed paranoia and grave fears for the future of the gaming industry, if people are asked to pay for their games (been 30 years of it, but I’m sure the sky will be falling any day now.) I’ll happily explore any options that might mean I’m better compensated for my work, and I guess we’ll soon find out whether people like my games enough to chip in.

Topic: Kongregate / Free to play games with "an optional advantage for Real Money." Do We Want This?

Originally posted by Frogmanex:

Aside from the fact that Garin says there are many people “already doing it” with “it” being making a living off of Flash game development,

David’s not wrong. Just because there are many developers making a living (I think the show of hands for full-time developers at FGS surprised most people) it doesn’t change the fact that the majority of developers make very little. There are just a lot of Flash developers.

Would it be nice if every developer out there could make a living off of Flash games? Sure, but it won’t happen. Just like it won’t happen for people who aspire to own restaurants. Some will succeed, and some will fail. The people who would succeed would succeed even without microtransactions and paid content, as we’ve seen from those who are already making enough money without them.

Who are you, to arbitrarily decide what is “enough” money for a developer? That figure I quoted includes two years of ad revenue, and is absolutely not a fortune. I will almost certainly be using microtransactions in my next game, because the money I have previously been making is not “enough”. Sorry! I’d rather not live my whole life worrying about whether I’ll be able to make rent.

Again, David is right that Flash is absolutely one of the lowest paid sectors of the gaming industry, and in fact working in the gaming industry in general is typically worth much much less than jobs in other IT-related fields.

Sure it is, for two games as simple as Monsters’ Den. And not only did he get that cash, he got publicity, a deal with EA (which is pretty significant), etc. All of which reduces the future “risk” he’s taking in making more games.

I don’t know if you’re just trying to bait me, or what, but Monsters’ Den is not a simple game. There is a reason you see so very few Flash RPGs, and it’s because they are massively more complicated and time-consuming to make than almost any other genre.

I try to be honest and straight-forward about the business, and I’m usually happy to share my numbers. You’re making me regret it, though. I won’t be used as a cudgel to attack other developers.

Topic: Kongregate / Free to play games with "an optional advantage for Real Money." Do We Want This?

Originally posted by Frogmanex:

Isn’t that what everyone wants? To do what they love without having to work a job that they hate…? shrug THAT seems rather idealistic to me, though.

I agree that it might sound that way, if there weren’t a bunch of people already doing it. Including me.

I’m curious — how much money have you made off of the Monsters’ Den games?

Well the first game was an almost total bust, because I made the stupid mistake of entering it in a contest. Altogether though, probably somewhere around $40,000. No sports cars, but I’m surviving (and it got me the EA gig.)

Topic: Kongregate / Free to play games with "an optional advantage for Real Money." Do We Want This?

Originally posted by Frogmanex:

Although, it’s still not easy to make a decent living just from advertising and sponsorships, and one underperforming game can potentially ruin you. So microtransactions are another useful avenue for a developer to try and get a little financial stability.

I have trouble grasping this. I mean, I understand what you’re saying, but to me, doing something for money isn’t doing it ‘for hobby’… It’s not doing it because you like it; it’s doing it because you want to make money off of it.

No, that’s exactly what I’m saying. 5+ years ago, essentially all Flash games were created as hobby projects, because the mechanisms simply weren’t there to do it professionally (except for contract work.) Now, a lot of developers are not hobbyists, but professionals. There will still always be a place for hobbyist developers, just as the massive music industry doesn’t prevent you from picking up an instrument.

The other stuff you’re talking about is just the natural conflict that comes with pursuing any creative endeavour full-time. If I had to guess, I would say that you’re a teenager, because you seem a little idealistic about it. It can definitely be dangerous to design a game based solely around the monetization mechanism (that’s how you end up with the current crop of Facebook games) but very few developers approach it that way. Most simply want to be able to make the games they like to make, and be able to live off it without having to work some day job that they hate. There’s nothing noble in refusing to make money from doing what you love.

Topic: Kongregate / Free to play games with "an optional advantage for Real Money." Do We Want This?

Originally posted by Frogmanex:

But you say that the money is what’s going to motivate developers to increase quality…

But you say that the developers haven’t been making enough money…

Then why has Flash game quality been increasing over the years?

The sponsorship/licensing market has increased a lot over the past 2-3 years. There are now more professional developers, and Flash games are less of a purely hobbyist pursuit. This does mean better games. Although, it’s still not easy to make a decent living just from advertising and sponsorships, and one underperforming game can potentially ruin you. So microtransactions are another useful avenue for a developer to try and get a little financial stability.

Topic: Kongregate / Locked Content

Yeah, Jabor is right— your attitude seems to be that you want the content that’s locked to be something you don’t care about.. but that’s exactly the opposite of what sponsors want, and are paying for.

Topic: Kongregate / Locked Content

Kongregate-sponsored games have locked content too, you just don’t notice because you happen to be playing on the sponsor’s site already. Given the landscape right now, sponsorships are an important component of a developer’s income (contest don’t come close) and so locked content isn’t going away yet.

So, to make you happy, either:

1) Kongregate starts sponsoring every game

or

2) Games sponsored by other sites with associated locked content are no longer uploaded onto Kong

Which are you arguing for? (1) is clearly impossible, and I think most people would agree (2) is undesirable.

Topic: Kongregate / Thanks For the Party Kongregate

It was definitely a good party. I can be seen as a disembodied hand and glass of beer near Alison and rawismojo.

Topic: Kongregate / Local Storage grievance.

Can you explain why you’re so hesitant to let the game save data on your computer?

Topic: General Gaming / New Monsters Den Godfall (3) releases soon

By the way, my new site/blog is http://www.monstrumgames.com

I’m trying to post new background material and such fairly regularly.

Topic: General Gaming / VVVVVV Discussion

Originally posted by Pustulio:

It’s not too late to do it even now. He could just refund the Kreds of the people who have paid for the full game by giving them some of the new games for free.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. The game seems to be doing very well without your advice.

Have a look at this: 82 on Metacritic. These are professional reviewers, evaluating the game as a $15 product. Plenty of high-profile games from large publishers fail to rate that highly. Comparing it to Music Catch or whatever is laughable.

Topic: Kongregate / Puzzled over VVVVVV Demo hate

Originally posted by Moochy:

Look for a game called N. A huge game with hundreds of levels, a built in level editor and access to thousands of userlevels. All. Free. No ‘Premium’, no ‘Demo’ (Though there’s a flash demo of the complete game which is free for download)

They did N+ for XBLA. Eventually, when you want to make some money, you have to start charging for things.

Topic: General Gaming / VVVVVV Discussion

This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on these forums. And that’s saying something.

Topic: General Gaming / New Monsters Den Godfall (3) releases soon

It’s nowhere near finished, but it’s a real thing.

Topic: Kongregate / Locked Content

Originally posted by jesdynf:
So I’m trying to convince users that demos aren’t something they should play (and that not liking demos is perfectly reasonable) and to give developers reasons to avoid the practice, or ways to channel their demoness (that word… did not come out right, did it?) that don’t compromise the game.

Right, that’s what I thought. And I’m trying to tell you that you’re tilting at windmills.

Guess what? A lot of developers don’t really like including locked content. A lot would prefer not to have to show advertisements before their games, either. But you’re wasting your time trying to convince them not to, because they have to do it. Absolutely nobody who is seriously trying to make a living at this is going to scuttle their sponsorship because someone with entitlement issues was throwing a tantrum on a messageboard.

You’re not going to convince anyone of anything, except that you have a very simplistic view of things.

Topic: Kongregate / Locked Content

Originally posted by jesdynf:
So I didn’t reply because I had nothing helpful to say — you know I feel it’s a demo, I know that you don’t care; I know that you don’t like me giving it a 1, and you know that I don’t care.

What’s the aim of the exercise? What do you hope to accomplish?

Topic: Kongregate / Locked Content

So why have you made no effort to address what I’ve been saying, when I’m a working developer who has actually been responsible for implementing “locked content” into his games? (albeit content locked to Kongregate.)

Do you have any response to the reality of the situation?