Recent posts by wargamer1000 on Kongregate

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Give me your tired, your poor

Originally posted by Mafefe_Classic:

all immigrants are losers that run away from their problems instead of reforming their home country

What you said fits the first colonists who made the American Nation today.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Give me your tired, your poor

Immigration from America isn’t the same from the immigration of refugees from North Africa and the Near East crossing the Mare Nostrum and making it to southern Europe, I suppose. Therefore, the problems and solutions aren’t straightforward similar to the century-old immigration to America compared to the residues of the Syrian Civil War and the Libyan conflict.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / briefly describe your bed

The ideal place for contemplation

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Something strange

Originally posted by Gevock:

Is it a dream or are you awake during?

One is simple explanation and the other one might be mental illness.

Nah, we’re all mentally ill in a way. So we turn to the arcane art of the interpretation of dreams and visions.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / How many people in your country?

around 98-100 Million.

Is there strength in numbers?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Assisted Suicide and Our Changing View On Death

That’s my choice now, just like suicide would be if I decided I didn’t want to carry on. You see? It’s about personal wants. Not the want of anyone else to decide what you do with your life.

It wasn’t because of personal wants- you assumed it was your choice and surely you are not entirely bound by petty desires. Rather its the freedom in the metaphysical sense, that a man could do all that he chooses, which makes license for him to suspend the ethical. This suspension is foolish; usually most people who commit the act of suicide are overwhelmed with feelings of despair and anxiety clouting their rationality and the Will to Life.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Assisted Suicide and Our Changing View On Death

while it may hurt and you wish that it didn’t happen or wonder why, no one will ever quite understand, and that is okay.

I don’t think its ‘okay’ if you didn’t quite understand it.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Beauty and Survival

Originally posted by petesahooligan:


Why is art and beauty so subjective… what purpose does that subjectivity serve?

because…

Beauty is an expression of value and art is an expression of thought.

This subjectivity serves our existences and its inherent absurdity. That’s why:

……we begin to make beautiful things for their ability to merge disparate ideas and relate concepts that seem distant… to invoke realizations, to serve as catalysts to new ways of understanding, to spark epiphanies and philosophical breakthroughs, to honor ideas and deities.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Assisted Suicide and Our Changing View On Death

People kill themselves for all kinds of reasons:
• They commit suicide in protest
• They commit suicide for honor
• They die in the act of duty
• They sacrifice themselves to save others
• They commit suicide in order to manage an imminent death
• And so on…

I think for these people their deaths can provide the end of their lives with meaning and clarity, rather than senselessly withering away in a hospital room… despondent and wallowing in fear and uncertainty and helplessness.

We should all commit suicide. We are in protest of the unfairness of life, we value honor deeply, our duties essential leads us to probable deaths, since we’ll all die imminently in the end anyways and so on.

Surely there’s meaning in death, after all, things totally have meaning once your dead and inexistent.

(Sarcasm intended)

I’ll prescribe you Albert Camus.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Ancient Rome and the United States

Originally posted by sanii:

Edward Gibbon’s history of the decline and fall of the roman empire was published in 1789. That’s quite a while ago. Additional, in its Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire), the “criticisms” section describes how his “morality” theory has run afoul of modern historians. Give a better source then a book written three centuries ago.

I doubt I’d give. Perhaps you think morality at all isn’t a factor for societies and states? I’d like to hear not matters of fact, but your opinion.

When so much power & wealth ( < almost one-N-the-same) becomes concentrated in the hands of a very few, disaster is on the horizon.

Is that always the case? that a few must never hold most of the power? and that disasters are its consequence? Was this even the case for Rome?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Ancient Rome and the United States

In conclusions, the arguments you provide to compare the current American nation to the fall of the Western Roman Empire are insufficient to form any possible parallels between the two states.

I agree. I wonder what’s comparable to the US in the histories….

This is stating a fact: you are stating that “many people (implied to be within historical circles, AKA credible people)” think that “morality” was a factor in the fall of the Roman empire. I don’t believe you. If you want me to believe you, you have to post a credible source.

Morality is indeed a factor of the decline and fall of the Western Roman Empire. Christianity and its values and principles at the time is the example, and Edward Gibbon’s history of the decline and fall of the roman empire is a credible source.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Ancient Rome and the United States

As the old saying goes: Those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

That’s suggesting history is filled with generally bad follies, yet it is fair to say that those who don’t learn history are unable to fix problems of the present. :)

This topic would be the collapse of the Western Roman Empire though. Her Eastern counterpart had different circumstances.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Should women fight in war? (on the frontlines)

So we should prohibit women from joining the armed forces just because some asshole soldier might rape one of them? How sexist IS that?

Pregnancy from rape, perhaps?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / IF god was real why dosnt he fix the world we live in now

I have faith that god is real, and he has promised when the time is right he will return and fix the world.

Nonsense! For what will God even fix? Our existential concern? Morality? What is even wrong in this world if not your own concerns and dilemmas of your own existence?

God is the majestic product of our existence in the face of disorientation from the absurdity that is the universe hence you cannot find him in reality.

We can take God similarly with the opposite of being and existing- nothingness. Something which we undoubtedly never presume existing therefore never generate to a matter of fact however one must assume that there is an opposite of existence and being otherwise nothing will ever be.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Obligation to Help Others

We’re group animals, social animals, and it’s the group that matters most in the end.

Does this understanding, taken in itself, something that in actual practice get us anywhere in answering what is good?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

If that’s so, then I don’t really see how Kantian ethics can work in the real world.

I appreciate that the universal imperative or the categorical imperative in Kantian philosophy terms was brought up. I’d like to talk about it more. :P

In Kant’s ethical theory on his critique of judgement, morality is based not on what you do but on having a good will. Further, having a good will doesn’t only mean to want to do good, but to do good because it is one’s duty. Having someone to want to do good does not make it moral because the maxim lacks the moral import of an action done from inclination but from duty.

A maxim is a ground rule or a subjective principle of action. Following this duty is therefore the moral law.

You are able to know what is right since it is an a priori. Quite the opposite for the pragmatic meta-ethics wherein environment and culture are the only influences for morality.

The categorical imperative states that you should only do something if you would want everyone to do it. Whether the maxim of your action could become one that everyone could act upon in similar circumstances. Thus an action can be universalized or the maxim of universalizability.

i.e “If everyone lied to secure bank loans, the very practices of promising and lending would fall apart, then the maxim would be impossible.”

This is an example of a ‘contradiction in conception’ much like a performative contradiction because they undermine the very basis of an idea’s own existence hence ‘lying to secure bank loans’ is absolutely morally wrong.

Kant continues to distinguish the duties: the perfect and the imperfect duties.

A perfect duty always holds true, and failure to follow would result in a contradiction in conception. An imperfect duty allows flexibility, often not resulting in a dire contradiction in conception.

The ‘formula of autonomy’ express the idea that an agent is obliged to follow the categorical imperative because of rational will and not outside influences. This formulation requires people to act as if the principles of their actions establish a law in a hypothetical kingdom, ‘the kingdom of ends’.

To answer your question, Kantian ethics can work in the real world. It is also deontological.

EDIT: where are the utilitarians?!

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

Attempting to fit the whole entirety of a life time of decisions into a neat little categories of ideological labels seems like a fools errand.

That’s an interesting insight.

In other words you can’t create a ‘perfect moral system’ that’ll be completely applicable to every possible situation and everybody always can follow without ever feeling guilty or doubtful or conflicted about.

However in every case, you did mention that we’re bound to feel guilt over what we could have done or what we have done, therefore doubtful of our own moral decisions. The fact one was doubtful of his/her decision meant an absence of a moral code being strictly followed hence if one followed a moral code thereby neatly categorizing one suggests that there will be no longer the nasty doubt or guilt from every possible situation from that person. That is why it is everyone’s errand to do so and not just the fool’s, I believe.

There can’t be a ‘perfect moral system’ is you universalize it on a aggregate scale, but consequentialists have a say on this.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

Originally posted by tghrr:

I’m consequentialist (I think the end justifies the means) because I believe that if the end product is going to make a big difference then it is worth whatever struggles you had to go through to get there. For example, if you needed to find a cure for a disease that could destroy the world but to do this you had to test it on people which caused them more suffering than just dieing from it then I think that would be worth it. Even if these tests were done on billions of people it would still be worth it in my opinion because if the end is something like saving the world it is worth doing horrible things to any fraction of Earths populations.

However, if the end is unimportant and the means are horrible it isn’t worth it. In my opinion you should always consider how bad the means are in comparison to how much good it will do and use that to work out if it is worth it or not. It is unfortunate that people can use ‘the end justifies the means’ to get away with things such as torture (which doesn’t even work effectively).

So you believe that ‘ends justify the means’ and yet ‘ends justifying the means’ as an excuse is sometimes wrong? But if you believe that the means necessarily have to be compared to its consequences, does the ‘ends’ truly justify the ‘means’ then? your suggesting the ‘means’ curtail the ‘ends’.

You stated that having to test billions of people to get the cure, would still be worth it to save the remaining from annihilation, isn’t this an unfortunate excuse for ‘ends justify the means’ as well? Now replace the word ‘test’ with ‘torture’, if torture doesn’t even work effectively how fares the moral act?

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

I am a moral relativist. I believe that there is no absolute moral code.

An absolute moral code would suggest that there is ALWAYS a morally “righteous” option given any decision. I believe that this is rarely the case and that people struggle to identify the most righteous path all the time because that moral code is elusive.

Therefore, the ends don’t always justify the means. Winning a game (good impact) by cheating (bad act) may be an example of this.
Therefore, the means don’t always justify the ends. Feeding your family (good act) by stealing from another (bad impact), for example.

We all live somewhere in the middle.

An absolute moral code is also not universal. My Consequentialist outlook may be in conflict with your Consequentialist outlook. The outlook is entirely subjective, so your “ends” and “means” may not be defined as clearly as my own… and this ambiguity basically erodes any moral code.

I do believe, however, that all moral meaning is contained solely in a person’s actions and not in their beliefs or intent.

An absolute moral code would suggest there is always something never to be violated, basically entailing that every other option is technically excusable hence moral.

However, if ambiguity erodes any moral code, moral relativism in itself is not a useful moral code. Like a fallibilism or nihilism because it itself does not establish a good way to live life. But this isn’t a question of tolerance. To say ‘its arrogance to apply your ethical standard given that all ethics are subjective’, sounds like a universal ethical claim. Ethics may be more objective than you think it is otherwise it is a matter of tolerance (no longer ethics).

Yet you believe believe moral meaning is contained solely on a person’s action, doesn’t that imply that there would be no ambiguity if moral meaning were on the act alone which can be assessed.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

They aren’t really moral relativists – they believe in scientism

Yes, ‘scientism’ has the tendency to exclude all other viewpoints different from itself. But scientism to dictate ethics? Science is a descriptive discipline and not a prescriptive one. In addition, its empirical methods are impotent to answer moral questions.

If you’re going to do something….please for the sake of humanity and your self…. try to weigh all the possible consequences and make sure you don’t overlook the long term ones.

So your of the first category, right? that consequence is an important matter regarding to morality and ethics. This requires a moral agent to view things impartially and impersonally for all actions as consequence is an important thing. Well, your suggesting heavy strains for a moral agent having to sacrifice several personal commitments and etc. in order to pursue what’s morally obligatory or the best course of action wherein its to minimize ‘collateral damage’. But can one truly weigh all possible consequences? future otherwise unknown consequences and intended consequences vary greatly.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

As I said, it’s NOT the most rational option – it’s simply the easiest.

Indeed, but people tend to follow moral relativism anyway despite it not being the most rational option but simply because it is easy. It might not even be as ‘easy’ as they think it is. How is it ‘easy’? Can moral relativism really apply anything to real life? Does it benefit you at all? I think not.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

btw change the title plz, it’s troll-bait.

Will do. Changed it.

I’d also put myself in the third category, though I don’t think it’s any more rational or ethical than the other two. I think moral relativism is an empty and immature ‘position’; it takes no great intelligence or humanity to stubbornly deny any moral claim or the value of any moral cause. I just lack the will to be anything else.

Lacking the will to be anything else? that you placed yourself in the skepticism category? How is that the most rational option then? If moral relativism is an empty and immature position, why be there at all?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What's so ethical?

This discussion would be more of an activity on normative ethics; the practical applications of your morality. Here I will present a handful of questions regarding your ethics.

1. Are you a consequentialist and follow Consequentialism Ethics? Meaning you adhere to the notion that ‘the ends justify the means’. Also means that if a goal is perceived to be morally obligatory or important enough that any manner to achieve it is also moral. Do you believe that your actions’ consequence as the final measure of how moral an act is? Being that if the consequence is ultimately bad for everyone, then the action is morally wrong? An example of this is utilitarianism.

2. Are you a deontologist and follow Deontological Ethics? Meaning you adhere to the notion that ‘the means justify the ends’. Also means that the morality of an action is based on the act’s adherence to a set of rules. Do you believe the act is more important than its consequence such that its consequence is ultimately irrelevant? An example of this moral absolutism.

3. Or do you skeptically believe that neither the act nor the consequence ultimately matters and that no act is ever truly moral? and that morality is a lie and that there is none? Let us include moral relativism in this case.

If so, in any one of the three, which of them is the most ethical and rational approach for us human beings? or rather what suits us the most. There can be no choosing of two, and assume each one is contradictory to the others, unless you can prove otherwise.

Note: There is also virtue ethics and pragmatic ethics in case some of you were wondering that there’s something lacking.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

Originally posted by TheBSG:

I think that if you want to discuss morality, do that. If you want to discuss the structure of the universe, do that. If you think the two are somehow related, show why in a coherent and defensible way. I have not heard a compelling argument that equates the two from any known philosopher or person yet, and no definition of an original force has adequately unified the concepts, and I am unconvinced the concepts even need reconciliation. The same way that I do not think that flavors have anything to do with the structure of existence beyond the obvious categorical relationships, either.

I did not think to combine and relate all my three argument at once, that’s messy! Respectfully assess each one of them different from one another. Only a genius could try to relate them all.

Indeed, you show fair claims that flavors (the senses) have nothing to do with the intrinsic structure of existence which is respectable. I claim the same, in fact. Although we can go on about the relation of the structure of existence in itself and the perception of humans, but I won’t.

EDIT: @BSG: how do you define God as?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

Originally posted by TheBSG:

Some things taste better than others.
There must be something that tastes the best.
God/Heaven is defined as the greatest subjective thing ever.
Therefore, if we taste, there is God, and God tastes great.

Or: I use the concepts of extremes to validate whatever I want to.

Or more simply: “However, this argument seems trivial. If “God” is just a metaphor for “there are moral goals that can be fulfilled,” then the conclusion is merely true by definition and no substantial claim is being made.”

I might be making a trivial argument just to point out that we don’t have to believe in obligations at all. Perhaps all obligations are impossible to fulfill. Additionally, saying that “God” is “the possibility of fulfilling our moral goals” is compatible with the Christian God as traditionally conceived. It might be that one way moral goals can be achieved is if an omnipotent entity makes sure of it.

EDIT: Therefore I do not argue that God exists as conceived indisputably but that moral obligations imply a belief in God in the sense that we assume we can complete a moral goal. But then this is one way to make use or understand the word ‘God’. Conceptually God in hindsight is defined as lots of things. God was once defined as a mythical creature, a tradition, and as the ‘explanation for natural disasters’. It too would say no substantial claim was made or nor ever made by those atheists as of how they defined God, right? Your example suits it, except it should be the negation for God.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

I admit it my greatest fault here to simply drop and continue another argument abruptly after I agreed that the former argument was indeed incomplete hence disproved. I had not stopped addressing those points that of which disproved the previous ones, rather that I had accepted it and ‘abruptly’ moved on. Leaving us to the third one.

Then you side stepped into philosophy with this not-so-veiled attempt to equate philosophical models of thinking with philosophical models of morality to somehow reframe this perfection idea as a concept of goodness.

What? In no way was the perfection part related to the morality argument. Perfection for God was indeed impossible is what we concluded.

I think your god is ill defined and in an attempt to include both cosmology and morality, is ultimately irrelevant to both the knowable universe or a developed morality.

Ah, my definition for God was ill defined and in that case the argument leads to an ultimate irrelevance, yes? What was a better definition for God if mine was ridiculous? Or more importantly how should we address God at all.