Recent posts by bloodnok on Kongregate

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Topic: Clicker Heroes / super super 10k+ soul late game idle combo

Originally posted by olinn:

you need a 4000%+ siyalatas for idle to beat skill combo, someone else did the math in a different thread.

That was with 20 manual cps, and with no skill-enhancing ancients. I know because I am someone.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Do treasure chests "spawn" while in offline mode

Originally posted by Hotshot2k4:Do you have any source for this claim?

Frankly, my guess would be a doctor with a flashlight.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / The Gap Between 75 Frostleaf and 1000 Treebeast

Originally posted by Harry1234114:

Is there anything i should be doing in this period? It seems to take forever to get the 1000 Treebeast. Should i just go idle for a day and wait for the cash? Or is there something efficient to do during this period?

A very approximate rule of thumb for the lazy (in which category I am) is just to buy the cheapest levels. It’s by no means the best strategy, but you’ll want them eventually to squeeze out HS pre-ascension, and it means at least you can’t ignore the most efficient hero forever.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Tier list for Ancients, v1

Originally posted by yiyayiya17:

About Siyalatas. Set you got y HS, it requires x HS to upgrade Siyalatas, and you already got z DPS bonus from Siyalatas. It is worth to upgrade Siyalatas only when x<y/(4z+1). According to my calculation.

http://marakesh.pythonanywhere.com/clicker_heroes/default/calculator is your friend.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / I know this is here somewhere but I can't find it.

Originally posted by Kelana:

Lucky Strikes if you are a slow clicker or simply can’t be bothered to do anything else.

Not Lucky Strikes. Energising Lucky Strikes less than doubles the damage output, taking the critical chance from just over 50% to 100%. Powersurge is obviously better than that, or Clickstorm with no clicks.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis

Originally posted by olinn:the earlier you get him the worse he is because you need to put 10x the cost of both morgulis and every. single. ancient. you buy after him into morgulis to break. even. regarding the HS cost/ DPS gain.

No, of course not. It doesn’t matter when you buy Morgy; the total cost of any build is the same whichever order you buy the ancients and levels in.

The marginal cost of having Morgy is the cost of your last ancient, though; and that’s quite high enough.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis not working

Originally posted by OldToast:

From what you guys are saying, this is not how Morgulis works at all right now, am I correct? If I’m understanding the previous posts, all I would get from Morgulis is a 1% dps boost while losing the HS click damage boost. That’s… well, it sounds like it sucks overall unless you have tons and tons of HS….

If you dump all your HS into Morgy, you multiply your DPS by 110%. This is not much.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis not working

Originally posted by TDragoni:

actually Morgulis IS useful

In a sense, yes. But 1) Morgulis is less useful than essentially every other ancient and 2) depending on the number of ancients you have, you may need to put very many HS into Morgulis just to break even on adding one ancient to your build.

It’s not that Morgulis does nothing, but that he does very little even if you dump every HS you have into him – and that other ancients do more at level 1 than Morgulis does with every HS you have.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Shortcut key for 25 levels

Originally posted by boogeyratt:

I think doing 25 instead of 10 is a terrible idea. So you have to use a single click for anything up to 25? Where as with 10s you can us one click for multiples of 10. Meaning, at most, 7 for 25 or 10 for 100. (18 for 99, but that’s still less than 24.)

This completely fails to consider the quantity in which levels are normally wanted – multiples of 25 or 100.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis not working

Originally posted by AVKing:

What nobody seems to be considering is the marginal cost of the ancients. For example, right now, I have Siyalatas at level 4 and he costs 5 HS to level up. That means my DPS increases by 25% for 5 HS. If I put 5 HS into Morgulis on the other hand, I get 55% DPS. The net change in DPS therefore is -25% if I level Siyalatas – since I no longer get a 10% bonus to DPS from the souls I spent –

No. This is the classic error of confusing the multiplicative bonus from Siya with the additive bonus from Morgy or extra hero souls.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis not working

Originally posted by RayCoral:

yes but lvling those ancients increases the cost per lvl so what would be worth it more lvling up a Siyalatas who would cost 250 HS for 25% increase or put those 250 HS into Morgulis, tell me now who would be better end game huh.

Siya, obviously. 250 into Morgy gives you +25 HS effectively; if you have more than 100, that +25% on Siya is worth more.

But in the end game it will cost you a great deal more than 25 HS to add Morgy to your roster, so actually the effect of getting Morgy and dumping 250 HS into him is large and negative.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / No more Clickstorm?

Originally posted by BaronRivendare:

I often don’t do a buncha math. Just here and there as I feel like it. But I have siya at level 20 or so. And the idle still can’t match the boss crushing of the old standard 1,2,3,7… this is even without energizing it, and I don’t have any of the active damage upgrades.

Which is entirely consistent with the arithmetic above.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / No more Clickstorm?

Originally posted by olinn:

keeping bhaal at even level or soul cost as siyalatas will make skills still extremely viable, i have siyalatas at level 16 and bhaal at 14 and my skills damage is vastly higher than my idle damage.

As noted above, I couldn’t sensibly consider all the cases where skill ancients are in play; but even without, Siya at level 16 is beaten by any skill combination better than Clickstorm+Powersurge with no manual clicks; beaten by a factor of ten by an all-skill attack. So you might well see much higher skill damage even without Bhaal.

the only downside is the loss of idle gold bonus and 60 sec idle cooldown once the skill burst runs out, but that’s offset by the huge amount of kills during those 30 seconds.

And, of course, the expenditure of HS on buying and levelling up Bhaal. I don’t know the relative costs for Bhaal or how many total ancients you have, so I’ve no idea if you came out ahead vs. dumping extra levels into Siya.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis not working

Originally posted by BaronRivendare:

Yeah, I never really agreed with morgulis being worthless once I understood what it does. But the part that keeps me from wanting to invest in it is the additional loss if I’d ever need to respec.

Morghulis is worthless. If you dump every HS you have into it, you’ll get a 10% damage boost.

Buy one level in Siya and use it as inefficiently as possible (by doing a Clickstorm/Powersurge every 2m30), what do you get? A 10% damage boost.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Tier list for Ancients, v1

Originally posted by bluetrolls:

I don’t get it. Both Fragsworth and Siyalatas are worthless. To get to level 5 it costs at least 1+ 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 15 HS, more for the initial cost. This gives 100%/125% DPS increase. Alas, 15 HS give 150 DPS increase for both clicks and idle, so neither of these ancients is cost effective.

Siya’s bonus is a multiplier to DPS, not an addition to the bonus DPS from hero souls.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / No more Clickstorm?

At high enough Siya levels, there’ll come a point where it’s not even worth using skills to pass a boss; peak damage will be better with leaving Siya’s boost on. (As a bonus, we’ll also get Libby’s bonus on the boss’s gold.)

We can’t consider all the cases, but let’s try some common ones. We might be able to click manually 10 or 20 times a second; or we might be older, wiser, carpal-tunnelier, and leave the mouse alone.

Given the ordering of skill cooldowns, we might have Clickstorm and Powersurge ready; or those plus Lucky Strikes; or those plus Super Clicks and Energise.

Let our base DPS (without Siya) be d. Our base click damage is 0.035d. However, with maxed hero upgrades, we get 9% critical clicks for 18x multiplier, adding .09 × 17 × 0.035 to that; our effective base click damage is 0.089d. In every case we’re running Powersurge, so it’ll be .18d per click. With Lucky Strikes, we get 59% critical clicks, adding .59 × 17 × 0.035; effective base click damage 0.7d (under Powersurge). Super Clicks triples our click value; there’s a wrinkle here that at 10 manual cps it’s still better to Energise Clickstorm, but at 20 manual cps one should Energise Super Clicks.

In the table below, we’re tracking bonus damage over and above the base d. That’s why the accounting for Powersurge is “d”, not “2d”.

So, with no manual clicks:

  • Clickstorm + Powersurge: d + 1.8d = 2.8d. Siya wins at +300%.
  • + Lucky Strikes: d + 7.0d = 8.0d. Siya wins at +825%.
  • + Energise + Super Clicks: d + 42.1d = 43.1d. Siya wins at +4325%.
    With 10 manual cps:
  • Clickstorm + Powersurge: d + 3.5d = 4.5d. Siya wins at +475%.
  • + Lucky Strikes: d + 14.0d = 15.0d. Siya wins at +1525%.
  • + Energise + Super Clicks: d + 63.2d = 64.2d. Siya wins at +6425%.
    With 20 manual cps:
  • Clickstorm + Powersurge: d + 5.3d = 6.3d. Siya wins at +650%.
  • + Lucky Strikes: d + 21.1d = 22.1d. Siya wins at +2225%.
  • + Energise + Super Clicks: d + 105.3d = 106.3d. Siya wins at +10650%.

Of course, click and skill enhancing ancients will tilt the balance back towards using skills, being unable to launch every skill the instant one hits the boss towards Siya, etc; but if one is largely oriented around Siya, this should prove useful. In particular, you need truly massive Siya levels for a full-scale attack with Energise and Super Clicks not to be valuable.

What about damage output for farming, where we care about the total over the 30s of skills and the 60s of cooldown? That’s easy to calculate; we get exactly the same bonus damage (now added to the 3d we would score anyway in those 90 seconds), but Siya’s benefit would be 3 times as great.

With no manual clicks:

  • Clickstorm + Powersurge: d + 1.8d = 2.8d. Siya wins at +100%.
  • + Lucky Strikes: d + 7.0d = 8.0d. Siya wins at +275%.
  • + Energise + Super Clicks: d + 42.1d = 43.1d. Siya wins at +1450%.
    With 10 manual cps:
  • Clickstorm + Powersurge: d + 3.5d = 4.5d. Siya wins at +175%.
  • + Lucky Strikes: d + 14.0d = 15.0d. Siya wins at +325%.
  • + Energise + Super Clicks: d + 63.2d = 64.2d. Siya wins at +2150%.
    With 20 manual cps:
  • Clickstorm + Powersurge: d + 5.3d = 6.3d. Siya wins at +225%.
  • + Lucky Strikes: d + 21.1d = 22.1d. Siya wins at +750%.
  • + Energise + Super Clicks: d + 105.3d = 106.3d. Siya wins at +3550%.

Doubtless there is an arithmetic error in the above, so feel free to tell me about it.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Tier list for Ancients, v1

Originally posted by JordanW103:

If say your highest level ancient cost 70 souls, it means you have to invest 700 souls into morgalis to get as much dps to pay for the cost of savings you would have if you didn’t buy Morgalis. Even if you bought morgalis for 2 souls, it still means that you wouldn’t have to pay 70 souls for whatever ancient you got last. So eventually morgalis will need 10x the price of the last ancient to be worth it.

It’s worse even than that. With HS in Morgy equal to 10x the price of the last ancient, you’ve only just broken even.

And it’s worse even than that, because the upper limit on Morgy’s performance is lousy. HS in Morgy equal to 20x the price of the last ancient… you’re getting a princely 5% DPS boost. The absolute best you can do with Morgy is to get a bonus to DPS that’s just less than 10%.

10%? I can get more than that by looking at Siya, and plenty of other ancients give a gold or damage effectiveness boost better than 10% just by buying them at level 1.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / What's your ancient build?

Right now, Siyalatas (100% DPS when idle), Dora (80% chance of chests), Atman (+3% Primal Bosses). Quite modest, but I’m keeping most of my HS in good old DPS.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Morgulis not working

Originally posted by myLAAN:

And you also have to take into account the opportunity cost of having him on your Ancient roster instead of some more useful one. The return on investment is very small when it comes to Morgulis.

I think the best way of looking at that is to see the cost of Morgulis as the HS cost of the last ancient you bought. (If I would have had 4 without Morgulis, I now have 5; having Morgulis effectively cost me the cost of the 5th ancient, even if I bought Morgulis first).

I conclude Morgulis is only worth it if you have a massive number of HS and a modest stable of ancients, so that a 10% boost to HS DPS is worth the cost of the extra ancient.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Shortcut key for 25 levels

Originally posted by Nokks:

Shift for 25 would be nice. Atm it’s Shift x2 then 5 solo clicks to get to 25. And it’d also be nice because we could SEE how much the next 25 will cost.

25 levels costs almost exactly 5 times the price quoted when one presses Shift for 10 levels. Of course, it’d be nicer not to have to multiply by 5, but it works.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Patch 0.12

Originally posted by raibowbuttmonkey:
Personally, I’ve spent 5 weeks building up 100 Hero Souls just to see patch 12a reduce that number to 30.

Why on earth did it take you that long? I’ve only been playing the game for about a week, and I had 192 when 0.12 hit, and that’s playing very off-and-on – if I were seriously trying to maximise the number of “get the easy HS, ascend, rinse and repeat” runs, I’d have a lot more than 192 by now.

Leaving aside RaibowButtMonkey’s little rant (he would do well to consider Tom Lehrer’s maxim, “don’t write rude words on walls if you can’t spell”), I’m rather liking 0.12. I don’t care if the numbers got smaller; I care how long an idle game can keep my attention, and what matters for that is staving off the (inevitable) realisation that one is just doing the same thing over and over with bigger numbers.

That said, I’m not convinced the numbers did get smaller. If you dump all your HS into cooldown reduction, and only had a few hundred to start with, you’ve taken a big nerf, but is cooldown reduction an effective strategy in the new world, at least until one has a huge number of HS? A tiny number of HS in Siyalatas doubled my DPS (given that I spurn autoclickers and wish to retain the use of my wrists); that’s effectively perma-Powersurge.

Don’t try and get the situation in 0.11 back; try and work out what’s best in the new world.

 
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Topic: Clicker Heroes / Shortcut key for 25 levels

Presently, you can buy levels in multiples of 10 or 100 by Shift or Ctrl-clicking. 25 would be much more useful, because of the way upgrades and x4 multipliers come on 25-level boundaries.

 
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Topic: Triviador / Factually Incorrect Questions/Answers

Ambiguous, perhaps; factually incorrect, no. There is a unit of mass called “pound” and it is the largest such unit listed.

 
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Topic: Triviador / Factually Incorrect Questions/Answers

I infer the OP is American. It was perfectly common in much of the world before the metric system to buy groceries in pounds; pre-metric recipes are in pounds and ounces anywhere that doesn’t have the insane practice of measuring compressible substances by volume (“cups”). When engineering was done in Imperial units (as of course no-one outside the US does today) if anything it is “pounds force” that was written explicitly to distinguish it from a measure of mass.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / [Cursed Treasure: Don't Touch My Gems!] Anyone else think this is massively overrated?

I don’t know that it’s “massively” overrated, but I admit I’m surprised it’s the top TD game on Kongregate (I’d pick Ghost Hacker) – Cursed Treasure is not a bad game, but it’s hardly exceptional and definitely has its flaws.

Whoever first decided that what TD games needed was a particular kind of enemy that’s so radically different to all the others that it has to be handled entirely specially has a lot to answer for, especially when that’s coupled with making nearly every other enemy laughably easy. Other games manage to give different enemies their own unique flavour without making the game revolve around one of them. The ninja would be a lot less harsh if you could build slowing towers (yeah, Hellfire, but that takes a while to get).

They’ve also fallen prone to Protector-style tower XP. This works OK in Gemcraft where you can move towers around, but here (as in Protector) it means you have to guess in advance how fast to build your defence outwards.

Also, I definitely prefer these “enemies pick stuff up and carry it out” games when the MacGuffins crawl backwards under their own power.

On the plus side, no juggling, no interest, and at least a somewhat varied concept.