Recent posts by light_bringer777 on Kongregate

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Topic: General Gaming / Idle Games...Why?

Originally posted by CamoMag:

Haha…i’m quite sure of that. Idk, i can’t say much because i don’t really kno how to make my own games and i’m sure its a challenge to make something like Sonny or Endless Zombie Rampage. but idle games just seem like the easy/lazy way out.

I was actually wondering myself the other day whether the average player would look kindly upon games such as Endless Zombie Rampage if they were released today. Browser games quality has gone way up a few years ago, and that hike in development cost pushed some changes on the industry.

I mean I remember being crazy for games like http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/359194 back in the day.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Is there some sort of ban?

They’ve been doing that for as far as I can remember.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Is there some sort of ban?

Kongregate has a handicap $1000(ads) + month prize if you win…
No one will ever get $15000 from kong with a free flash game.

Learn to Fly 2 earned more than that on kongregate since they share their revenue with the developers.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Is there some sort of ban?

Originally posted by hamuka:
Originally posted by tvlab13:

So basically, game devs don’t care about the gameplay experience any more, or have any respect for the players…. they just want the quickest route to their money.

While at it, do you know how much a flash game costs

Let me just take the example of Learn to Fly 3
Putting together the costs of programming, cutscene work, art and etc.
The amount of money needed to fund the project was $15,000 at a bare minimum

Bear in mind that, if you get the highest amount of ad revenue Kong promises on this Developer Centre page ($2.00 per thousand views)
It’d take 7.5 million views to make back the money invested in the game
That is pretty close to unachievable for any single-player game that doesn’t get daily advertising (like some games on here do nowadays)

It’s sad, but we have to face it: as of now, good games are not worth the effort, and are sometimes even harmful to its developers

With you on the whole argument, but just for a healthy dose of realism here, because cost of development is so poorly understood and so few people seem to talk about it:

Learn to Fly 3 is a 3-years project, probably more around 2 years of full-time work involved (sickness and all).

At $20/hour that represents $41,600 a year, or $83,200 in salary if I was paid by the hour. Cost of living however is about $40,000 where I live with mortgage and all, so 3 years means a development cost of $120,000 on my part.

The kickstarter cost about $3,000 to run. About $6,000 was paid for art and animations, something like $1,000-2,000 (?) for server, website and online saves and everything, about $40-50 a month for said servers, around $2,000 for software, tools and licenses, another $1,000 in sound and music, over $3,000 in accounting fees, and I’m probably forgetting stuff here.

So either 83k or 120k + 3k + 6k + 1.5k + 2k + 1k + 3k….

Learn to Fly represents an investment of $99,500 to $136,500, ~$4,000 of which was provided by crowdfunding (7k minus 3k cost of campaign).

For a browser game.

That is the cost of game development.

Just for fun:
A quick project, something taking like 1 month, means ~172 man-hours.
That’s $3,440 at $20/hour, more if you want a better salary.

A medium project of say, 4 months on a team of 2 represents ~1,376 man-hours, or $27,520 at $20/hour.

A large project taking a year for a team of 5 would take ~10,400 man-hours, and that’s $208,000 in wages alone. $312,000 if you want $30/hour. At $40/hour, which is about what some friends in the software business earn around here, you’d be looking at $416,000.

Games take a cr*p-ton of money to develop, and that’s before you even account for royalties, licenses, tools, freelance work and support/maintenance.

That’s why we’re seeing low(er)-development cost games, or micro-transaction schemes and all those freemium games and everything.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / nintendo should make zelda a girl in the next game

Originally posted by Zamnfan1997:
Originally posted by RollerCROWster:

zelda has been a boy in every game that is sexist nintendo should check their privilege and make a strong independent woman zelda.

Not sure if trolling or legitimately this stupid….

That’s like 2000% troll.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Is there some sort of ban?

Originally posted by tvlab13:

So basically, game devs don’t care about the gameplay experience any more, or have any respect for the players…. they just want the quickest route to their money.

That is a childish thing to say. Imagine this:

You can have either of these jobs in the exact same field.
Job A earns you $1000/week with 30 hours/week.
Job B earns you $500/week for 50 hours/week.
Think many people would pick A? Would YOU pick a job that pays less and gives you less free time?

As a matter of fact I kinda personally did with Learn to Fly 3 and I can only assume at this point that it will be a financial disaster. Sponsors weren’t interested because it was “too big” for the current market. I could probably have either tripled my salary or worked half as much if I had gone for more trendy stuff or smaller projects.

And again, remember that a play is a vote. Devs produce what people play. Games that get on the front page are there because play them and rate them well.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Buying a Game from a developer.

Definitely possible, but I would say you have it backwards.

If a dev made a game (i.e. invested thousands of dollars and hours into a project), selling it is the nice part of the job. A dev could sell an entire IP once finished, but you’d have to make an offer than could outweigh the potential revenues.

The way this is more likely to happen is you order a game from a developer, ask for all rights on the IP and pay them upfront. This would be the value you add for the dev; you guarantee revenue and finance the project, they abandon the rights.

But yes, definitely possible, and requires little more than a contract in many countries. You can either go for purchasing entire Intellectual properties or getting license for particular rights you desire (e.g. can sell the game but not develop derivative work or things like that)

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Is there some sort of ban?

Originally posted by tvlab13:

Is there some sort of ban on the gaming industry that’s preventing developers from building anything but idle games?

Development cost vs money available in the market.

You can’t justify a browser game that costs too much because you simply won’t get your investment back. The browser games market shrunk too much when mobile too over.

Idle games, having way fewer mechanics, are generally low-cost, and not only that, and it’s a big factor, they’re trending. As a dev, you can make a trendy product for half what it would cost to make a not-trendy one, doing otherwise would be plain stupid.

Most devs have since moved to mobile or steam, and I’ll have to do it very soon myself.

 
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Topic: Game Design / Working on a game development book, looking for opinions

Thank you very much Tulrog, you bring some very good points. I’m definitely noting this down to work a bit more on those sections soon. I do speak about revealing your content little by little in other parts of the book, but it would fit very nicely with the tutorial/learning section as you point out.

To answer your question, not it has not been proof-read, AND I’m not a native speaker either! You can probably guess that this in not the final version on the text. I will probably hire someone to review/edit the book for me to make sure the final product is more professional.

And yeah, I don’t think this forum is particularly lively…

 
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Topic: Game Design / Working on a game development book, looking for opinions

Originally posted by Rhysdog:

It’s probably in any game developers best interest to not read the part on “getting things done”

Care to explainelaborateI assume you are talking about the reverse workweek and the unschedule? If so, I mean there is a clear warning about being honest with yourself when using them. It’s not gonna suddenly trick anyone into not working for months…

Otherwise I’d really want to know why you say this excerpt would have a negative effect on anyone.

 
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Topic: Game Design / Working on a game development book, looking for opinions

Hey everyone, I’m the dev behind the Learn to Fly series and I’ve been working on a game development book for some time now.

The book is a series of somewhat unrelated 1-10 pages chapters about anything related to game development, but heavily targeted towards “very small indie developers” (i.e. solo dev or small indie teams) as I feel our reality is very different from the AAA industry or big indie studios out there.

I’ll discuss everything from game design and rulesets, how to start making games, how to market games, to things not-so-related to game development such as how to maintain motivation, how to set goals and slightly more “philosophical” subjects such as what it means to be a game developer and reasons why you should be in the business.

So anyway, here are 3 random excerpts from the current book.

http://lightbringergames.com/tutorials-done-right/

http://lightbringergames.com/develop-for-gaps/

http://lightbringergames.com/getting-things-done/

I’m looking for feedback, opinions and thoughts about all this.
What do you guys think? Is this a book you’d like to read?

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

We’re back online! Just a totally useless 5-6 hours of work caused by someone who calls himself a “Learn to Fly fan”…

http://lbgserver.com/learntofly3/game.php

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Well everything has been take down for the time being, thanks to those morons. Learn to Fly 3 will be back online at OUR website as soon as we get this stuff sorted out.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Originally posted by nivada13:

i want it on kongregrate so badly i have played it at your site you even replied to my comment there about the memory leakage still in it!

I just want it here so badly cause i want to try to get the badges (which kongregate surely will add)

one question tough
Data online save function will actually carry my save data over te kongregate once it is here?(whenever that might be damn you app store!)

Yes online saves will allow you to carry your save across different websites. One thing I’M wondering about is that Kongregate forbids 3rd party login… so we’ll see what they think of the onlines saves. Worst case scenario I’ll patch in some other way of transferring saves.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Is this game bad?

It’s not bad, but it’s not really good either.

Mechanically, it seems to work just fine. The controls work, the physics work from what little I can tell, but there are some design issues.

1. Theme. Make “diamond” touch the ground? Said diamond is green? Corrupted diamond looks anything but bad? Just doesn’t really work for me, looks and feels extremely generic.

2. Intuitiveness, conveyance and tutorials. I was able to play the game because I knew other games like this. I figured out the “bring the gem down” part on my own, but it should be explained in a first few stages. For example, stage one should just be “click this crate” and you win. Stage 2 could have a little puzzle behind it. Stage 3 or something could introduce corrupted diamonds and quickly tell you how they work (like did I have to throw them off-board or just leave them there?). Nobody reads the “how to play” part, there’s not gonna bother.

3. Originality/value. This game brings nothing new to the market. It feels more like an exercise in development than a game that was designed to have some success. If that is the case, then it plays its role perfectly, otherwise, a lot of job should’ve been done in the design phase. Maybe it could at least have something related to the “diamonds”, like handling them roughly breaks them and lowers your score/makes you lose.

4. Polish. Graphics are meh, menus are super basic and not really good looking, every level is unlocked from the start, there are no challenges, no score, no time, no “in X moves”, no stars, no anything. Level design in uninspired and offers little beyond “click blocks under green and slide blue off the stage”.

5. You lock away level 21+, and yet if we beat level 20 it keeps on going? Also is there an end-game or anything? A goal to the game?

And that’s my opinion. The game works, controls are fine, most of everything in it is “decent” and it could’ve been somewhat successful years ago. To be considered “good” today, it would need a lot of work and something that brings new value to the current market.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Originally posted by FlyingCat:

Yeah, the Apple Store is a killer. I remember 5thPlanetGames mentioned that it takes one to three months to get anything approved on the Apple Store, and another month or so if you wanted to make any patches or updates.

That’s probably what’s happening here. Last time we spoke they told me it would take a few weeks or so… it’s starting to look like it’ll take 2-3 months.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Since Sep 22nd, the game was basically ready by the end of May though.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Originally posted by HaloExpert422:

When is it coming on Kong??

Still waiting on the producer of the guys who did the mobile port and the approval for the Apple store. No idea when it’s all gonna happen, should’ve been 1-3 weeks ago…

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Ads on mobile games is getting too much...

Never seen ads with fake “X” personally and this goes against the guidelines of many ad providers. Never seen an ad literally interrupt gameplay either, it’s really not that hard to put them at the right moment.

Not saying it never happens, just that I haven’t come across this issue personally.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Flash (Obsolete?) Unity3D (dying?) Web GL? HTML5? Other?

Originally posted by Chrisis500:

Browser games are dying, steam is taking over.

This. The browser game market has been split between Steam and mobile. I’m not sure it’s really going to “die” any time soon, but it’ shrunk to the point where it’s hard to justify development costs. Developing cross-platform is a solution, but at this point it may not even be worth it to some.

That’s the reason we’re mostly seeing lower development-cost games or multiplayer F2P titles.

Ofc if both Flash and Unity were to die off, it would probably be a big problem for devs as it won’t make sense to learn new tools for browser games when you could be switching over to some other platform.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

If anyone’s interested we’re doing an AMA over at our subreddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/learntofly/comments/3o81u8/qa_ama_ask_us_anything/

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Can you stop with those idle "games"?

Originally posted by MrSkyFire:

This is probably an epic necro post, but I too am annoyed with the bunch of “Idle” games popping out. Wheres the real games Kongregate?

Away from Kongregate because there isn’t enough money to support development anymore unless you use some sort of “scheme” or have mx/multiplayer.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / The last game I rage quit was ________?

Goldeneye 007. On the N64. Just had to replay it when I learned I could play with mouse and keyboard.

F*** control on 00 agent.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / stop adding idle games

Except a lot of people do. And rate them high. And that’s why there are idle games being made. Because there’s demand.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Originally posted by dedespeed:

What is the bottem left thingy when flying and what is drag?

At the bottom left are your stages and boosts with their fuel, and below that is your current weight as it decreases with each emptied stage/boost. Drag is basically air resistance. When written as a number (e.g. 0.995) it’s a multiplier of your momentum applied on each frame (for 0.995 you would lose .5% of your speed 60 times per second)