Recent posts by Kholai on Kongregate

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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Originally posted by why_amihere:

I just realised that for short neutral Merc runs relying on Lightning Strike, a Labyrinth-based build is about 4 times better than an Ancient Pyramid build (which is already significantly better than Blacksmith, Deep Mine or Monastery). Thanks to Vlaeghe for prompting me to take a look at Labyrinth builds.

The important part of this is to use Territorial Expanse (Faceless 1,1) which multiplies Labyrinth production by 5000%/assistant (I’m on reincarnation 7, so have 21 assistants), but then to ignore everything that naturally synergises with it because the available production bonuses are better!

Tier 1

Territorial Expanse (Faceless 1,1) – Labyrinth production increases 50x for each assistant
Dwarven Ale (Dwarves 1,1) – 1% production boost per Inn
Colossal Forge (Titans 1,1) – 1% production boost per Blacksmith
Strong Currency (Goblins 1,1) – large production boost based on Faction Coins found in game

Tier 2

Cyclopean Strength (Titans 2,3) – 0.25% production boost per assistant per HoL
Earthly Bond (Druid 2,2) – increase maximum mana per Stone Pillars (allows chaining of an extra spell or two)
Gold Synthesis (Faceless 2,1) – 1.5% production boost per Alchemist Lab
Overgrowth (Faceless 2,3) – production boost based on max buildings this reincarnation (this is the weakest – not sure if there’s something better if you wait a while)

Tier 3

Elven Luck (Elves 3,2) – 1% of clicks give you 7500 x Building Production
Titan Obelisk (Titans 3,3) – 2.25% production boost per Ancient Pyramid (on everything BUT Pyramids)
Building Jungle (Druids 3,3) – each building gains 1.75% production boost per building of the same type
Battlehammers (Dwarves 3,1) – large production boost based on Dwarf Faction Coins found in game

Harlequin bonus 216%

Honestly the majority of your boost there is coming from Elven Luck, not Territorial Expanse. Territorial Expanse is only an x831% multiplier, and you can do a luck based Pyramid build too if you’re so inclined. I’ll assume a lazy man build where you’re going with Moon Blessing to click less, since you definitely don’t want to be wasting your time using DP. I suppose you could be using Fairy Chanting to x3/x3 your production (and x3 your assistant output but who cares), but it’s not going to work out much better than the Blessing with decent click support, and Combo Strike is just a waste of time.

Alignment
Neutral
Spells
Lightning Strike
Moon Blessing

Tier 1 Upgrades
Goblin (1,1): Strong Currency
Dwarf (1,3): Mining Prodigies
Dwarf (1,1): Dwarven Ale
Titan (1,1): Colossal Forge
Tier 2 Upgrades
Druid (2,2): Earthly Bond
Demon (2,3): Demonic Presence
Titan (2,3): Cyclopean Strength
Faceless (2,1): Gold Synthesis
Tier 3 Upgrades
Dwarf (3,1): Battlehammers
Druid (3,3): Building Jungle
Fairy (3,2): Rainbow Link
Elf (3,2): Elven Luck

Harlequin Bonus: 512%

T1: Mining Prodigies is flat out more powerful than Territorial Expanse (Labyrinths are 0.79% of Baseline production, 0.79 × 1051 = x8.3). You could probably improve your build by switching out Forge for it, but Forge is better than Territorial Expanse anyway. Assuming 300 Excavations (Ridonculously low) that’s x17.95, more than twice as potent.

T2: Demonic Presence is stronger than Overgrowth, since it’s boosting 90.3% of production it’s the most efficient upgrade. Assuming you’re packing 16k buildings max/current, Overgrowth is x19.46, Demonic Presence is around x27. Sure, you can set up an Overgrowth boost, but then it would just be a wash for both sides to use it, or for the Presence build to switch out Gold Synthesis instead and still come out better off.

T3: Even post Expanse, Obelisks are still packing in 10% of production, so assuming Baseline 1300, that’s x28 or so to production. Same Baseline, that’s x13.18 for Rainbow Link.

Multiplying out the differences, Expanse is x14290 versus x39,092.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Originally posted by colourcodedchaos:

I think this needs work, though, so I’d really appreciate someone better-versed in the lategame taking a look at this. =]

Tier 1:

Point 1: Any mana generation is a potential production bonus you’re missing out on. In other words, you want as little mana as possible.
Combo Strike is inherently limited by being a 20 second duration. This means you need enough mana/s to generate 700/800 every 20 seconds. That’s 40 mana/s. This would also be enough to get 10 seconds of overlap pentacasting if you use Brainwave instead of Godhand (which would not noticeably diminish your production compared to Godhand). As such, you probably only need Magical Gates, the rest you’re wasting multipliers on an already suboptimal build.
Point 2: Expert Masonry is a 14% increase in building count and building based multipliers. It’s not great, and again, you’re wasting slots. Every single slot should be a production multiplier.
Point 3: Animal Companions sucks.

Tier 1 suggestion: Strong Currency, Mining Prodigies, Oversized Legends, Sylvan Treasure Frills.

This is a universal production base for optimised production. To run those with some conservative numbers: x25, x20, x15, x17. That’s x127,500 production compared to… x226.

Tier 2:

Point 1: Angelic Wisdom is only necessary if your maximum mana is too low to combo. Your mana should not be too low to combo, you should have at least 10,000 buildings and premeditation for 1,700 mana. This is enough to cast Combo Strike + Call to Arms + Holy Light ten seconds later. The primary use is for cheap Tax Collections, not faster set-duration-spells. By keeping it in, you’re making it harder to get a decent harlequin bonus, so don’t just take it without considering the ramifications.
Point 2: Mitosis sucks. Assistants, generally, suck, outside of Greedynary specialist builds. Addition is worse than multiplication.
Point 3: The rest of your mana generation is still redundant.
Point 4: Every build that lacks Cyclopean Strength is terrible.

Tier 2 suggestions:

Demonic Presence, Angelic Wisdom, Overgrowth, Cyclopean Strength.

That’s x20, x20, x316. Another x126,400 multiplier versus… x2.68 to assistant production.

Tier 3:

Point 1: Magic Resistance is poor, because mana generation is poor. Even splurging up to 80 mana/s only gives x34. If this sounds high, note that you’re getting an x20 or better for every upgrade slot that you aren’t spending on mana generation.
Point 2: Why would you get Mitosis, rather than Swarm of Fairies if you wanted assistants? Swarm is around twice as potent.

Tier 3 suggestions:

Blade Dance (Duh), Magical Gates, Ancient Clicking Arts, Rainbow Link.

With moderate click support up to 12.8 mana/s or so, these two should be enough mana/s to get over 35/s even at low incarnation, low gem runs. It’s a little suboptimal, but you probably sacrifice least this way.

For completion, that’s x12 or so versus… Let’s pretend you’ll get 100 mana/s x41.

Plus harlequin bonus, which is x6.12 vs. x4.43.

So total we have:

x1,183,559,040,000 and 40 mana/s.

vs.

x110,011 and 100 mana/s or so.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Baseline Mathematics

Originally posted by Cunari:

+100% to Assistants = +9.98% of income.
+100% to Clicks = +36.58% of income.
+100% to Total Production = +100% of income.
+1 Assistant, each = 6.67% increase to assistant income (additive for each additional assistant).

Bumped for incredible usefulness. It’d be helpful to have specifics on everything but just strictly read all the upgrades. If elven luck says it multiplies Total Production by X75 then only take merc upgrades that multiply production. Same with Territorial Expanse.

Brief note that the maximum “base” increase is now as high as 21 assistants, and the number of “basic” click and assistant bonuses mean those are are outdated.

You can pick up new figures using the same methodology, however, just take a mercenary build with every available “basic” upgrade and nothing that is not a pure building production increase, and you’ll see the new proportions. For + Assistants it’s +4.76% to assistant production, 1.66% to total production from the two Assistant# to production upgrades.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Overwatch

Originally posted by GendoIkari_82:

Edit I think I realize now that it only decreases while inactive, not while active. The description of the upgrade isn’t helpful at all for that. So at least you can combine it with auto-clicker, but still, 600% for 10x and 100x as much money as 2000%?

The cost of the upgrade is irrelevant, and they are not ordered by potency. Hence why Angels, Elves, Dwarves, Drow, Goblins, Demons, Undead, Fairies, Titans and Faceless all have superior, cheaper, upgrades to their 33 slots. Aka everyone except Druids.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / "Based on" upgrades

Originally posted by Rahler:
Originally posted by Kholai:
Originally posted by Kholai:
Originally posted by Cunari:

How is tax collection FC calculated? How does honor among killers and building FC generation affect it? Is honor among killers multiplied by say the elf effects? Also do any FC upgrades work on LS?

Chance of coins x assistant number x 30. They don’t. No. No.

Checking, Tradelords appears to have no impact on the output.

Also, it doesn’t seem to be the listed FC chance X Assistant count, either. hmm…

Running the estimated figure backwards against my assistant counts, it appears to be 25% x Assistants x 30.

Originally posted by Cunari:

How should we compare multipliers on building production? Clicking reward? And Assistant Production?

Building production goes to both coins per click and coins per second. So a building production multiplier would be worth twice as much as a click multiplier? Or with 32 autoclicks? A building multiplier is worth 1 & 1/16 of a click multiplier?

A Clicking reward is worth 32 times an assistant multiplier? And a building production multiplier is thus worth 34 times an assistant multiplier?

And things like elven luck throw this out of whack too making a click and assistant multiplier worth 1/75 times less a building multiplier? Then there’s base clicking reward too which probably becomes insignificant over time.

Base clicking reward seems to be about 5% of production with a lot of other multipliers tacked on to it. So Sylvan Treasure Frills is actually really increasing the base from 5% to 85% of production.

This is what I went into with Baseline. Generally unless you have a specific number of clicks/s it’s a toss up either way. But yeah, STF has always been x17 to clicks.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / "Based on" upgrades

Originally posted by Kholai:
Originally posted by Cunari:

How is tax collection FC calculated? How does honor among killers and building FC generation affect it? Is honor among killers multiplied by say the elf effects? Also do any FC upgrades work on LS?

Chance of coins x assistant number x 30. They don’t. No. No.

Checking, Tradelords appears to have no impact on the output.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / "Based on" upgrades

Originally posted by Cunari:

How is tax collection FC calculated? How does honor among killers and building FC generation affect it? Is honor among killers multiplied by say the elf effects? Also do any FC upgrades work on LS?

Chance of coins x assistant multipliers (Elf and Trade Lords) x assistant number x 30. They don’t. No. No.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Originally posted by Magmardooom:

_

Alignment
Neutral
Spells
Lightning Strike
Diamond Pickaxe
Tier 1 Upgrades
Goblin (1,1): Strong Currency
Dwarf (1,3): Mining Prodigies
Dwarf (1,1): Dwarven Ale Elven (1,3): Sylvan Treasure Frills
Titan (1,3): Oversized Legends
Tier 2 Upgrades
Druid (2,2): Earthly Bond
Demon (2,3): Demonic Presence
Titan (2,3): Cyclopean Strength
Faceless (2,1): Gold Synthesis
Tier 3 Upgrades
Dwarf (3,1): Battlehammers
Druid (3,3): Building Jungle
Fairy (3,2): Rainbow Link
Drow (3,2): Professional Assassins

Harlequin Bonus: 512% 729%

_

Don’t mind me. :D

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / dwarf or drow concrete answer please

Originally posted by dudemcbob:

No one here is addressing a very important question: Do you use an autoclicker?

I saw all the forum hype about dwarves and unlocked them first, but I think everyone hyping them up is using one. They seemed pretty mediocre, without an autoclicker. If you don’t use one, I would recommend only going dwarves until you get enough gems to unlock drow easily. Then drow all the way.

No, for Dwarf I don’t bother to use an autoclicker, on any mix. And yes, they are dramatically superior to Drow, my passage from Titans at e17 to Mercenaries at e28 takes around three hours AFK.

This is more because the target gems I need to reach are in the e28s, rather than the e36s, since Dwarf is much, much stronger at lower gems, while Drow are great at pushing back gem walls which are no longer there.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Balance of Heritages

Originally posted by emanonevahi:

I’ll just add that i really dislike the idea of making things based on total click amount, since it’ll be useless for people that reincarnated. I’m on my 8th now and my total amount of clicks is 1519, unless you use a clicker more often than not you don’t really need to click a lot.

I’m guessing you don’t play elves.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / [Suggestions]

Originally posted by Magmardooom:

At the beginning of the game you have 6 options which reduce to 3 when you hit the neutral phase, then increase back to 6 when you hit the prestige phase.

With the mercenaries even though there is only one new faction you have pretty much limitless options.

It would really be a pity to start reducing your options again with subsequent expansions. Maybe you should add a few (3?) new factions that are not specific to alignments and can stack on top of any prestige faction.

So let’s say you add Centaurs, Lamias and Orcs.

You can have any of the 6 prestige combos and then another 3 options for each one of them (e.g Elves/Dwarves can become Elf/Dwarf/Centaurs, Elf/Dwarf/Lamias, or Elf/Dwarf/Orcs)

With a total of 18 options the next expansion would be really diverse and fun to play just like mercenaries are.

Honestly I’d rather any three factions to be neutral Prestige. That would only be nine alternative choices, but it it would be nice to get away from Good and Evil for a bit.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / best faction for getting gems

Originally posted by KillAllRebels:

Can anyone Explain How elves are still good for coins after the Billions? I hit one billion the day before yesterday, did a 9 hour run to get to 6 billion, and now a day and 8 hours later im just at 5Billion more if I reset. How am I supposed to get to the trillions with them? at this speed it could take months to get there.

Depends if you click a lot (or have autocast to keep Moon Blessing going). Elves have a very sizeable multiplier in the form of Elven Luck which dramatically increases your income. If you don’t click a lot, it may be worth jumping into Titans instead.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Greedy

Fairy Chanting
Goblin Greed

Df13/T13 Expert Masonry/Oversized Legends
Dd12 Animal Companions
U13 Death Temples
A13 Angel Feathers

Dd23 Shapeshifting
Fc22 Mitosis
U22 Corpse Supply
A22/A23 Angelic Wisdom/Archangel Feathers

Dn31/E33/A33 Infernal Magic/ Ancient Clicking Arts/Seraphim Feathers
Fy33 Swarm of Fairies
Fc31 Magical Treasure
Dn32 Burning Legion

For a more productive build that may actually get you somewhere at low gems, switch out Mitosis for Cyclopean Strength, Expert Masonry for Strong Currency, and Infernal Magic for Dead Fields.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Realm Grinder: Afterlife [Full Patch Notes]

Originally posted by why_amihere:

I’m expecting to have mercs later this week, just about to do my 3rd reincarnation. I have a fun question though…

Can you combine Lightning Strike and Grand Balance on the same building? If you do Grand Balance (with a few choice upgrades it probably multiplies total production over 200-300x), can you then Lightning that same building by luck for at least 5000x more production or does Grand Balance shift to another building if your Lightning Strike hits it?

Hellfire Blast mixed with Lightning Strike might be more helpful, come to think of it.

I’ve not actually bothered testing, but to my knowledge there’s nothing that differentiates a spell’s production boost from anything else, so the moment Lightning Strike struck it, Grand Balance would retarget.

Hellfire Blast exclusively works on Halls of Legends while playing Neutral mehcenaries, while Lightning Strike cannot be used while playing Evil nastynaries.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / MErcenary spells

Reset. Choose your alignment. Check your available upgrades.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Balance of Heritages

You just want more multipliers so you can hit R10 easier.

Anyways, yeah:

Elven Heritage: Increase clicking reward based on the number of Royal Exchanges: (Exchanges)^0.7. – 21% at 80 exchanges, 107% at 800, 174% at 1600.

This would be very elvish, with Elves getting more out of it than most other factions.

Undead Heritage: +25% to total number of assistants.

Drow Heritage is already providing a bonus to assistant production, and I’d rather heritages didn’t step on one anothers’ toes. This would maintain early game balance better than a fixed number +10%, and s

Titan Heritage: Multiply royal exchange bonus by 2.5? Well, it’s a boost that only applies to Titans, but sure, why not? This would reduce the sting of their diminished Lightning Strike.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Elven Luck?

1: It is indeed Total Production x7500. Not %, x.
2: Total Production means Total Building Production, not assistants. If you have 0 assistants and no clicking bonuses, it would indeed work out to x7500 your displayed total cash production.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Excavation Gems not refunding upon soft reset

Originally posted by sidiro:

i just had the same issue come up..i didn’t lose as much as JRarts but i got no refund for gems used in excavation whatsoever!haven’t noticed if same thing happened in my last reset as gem number was lower,but it happened now…

Again, ALL gems spent on excavations are added to your gems given on reset. They are not additional. You excavate with 0 gems earned, you will have exactly your excavation cost inbound.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Excavation Gems not refunding upon soft reset

All gems spent on excavations are added to gems given on reset.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / [Suggestions]

Originally posted by gdesign95:

Question Reincarnation says it increases faction coin chance 1% does this mean that eventually you could be getting 100% chance base just off Reincarnation because if so how would the game handle that I think it should have a cap so that it can’t exceed 100% as that would lead to questions as to how useful the elves would be

Or… Simply have results over 100% give multiple faction coins? Elves getting 6 FCs per assistant per second would be pretty useful.

Minor Suggestion: Have excavation information display to the right of the mouse, like spells do, so I can see my total production multiplier.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / [Bug] Elven Luck does not work on minion income.

Total production, and production wherever not otherwise specified always mean Total Building Production. Increase total production by 100% doubles your buildings. If it doubled your assistants as well, then they would get an x4 multiplier – first doubled because they are based off buildings, which would double, then doubled because of the increase.

By the same logic Elven Luck works off Total Building Production.

It’s a bit of an artifact, I agree it could use rewording, especially now we have a total Cash Production stat.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Originally posted by Rahler:
Originally posted by Kholai:
Originally posted by Rahler:

I’m assuming this is “false” because the production of Inns is so much lower than the production of Blacksmiths?

Starmetal Alloys is a production/count multiplier. You will have significantly more blacksmiths than inns in the given build.

The person was saying to replace Starmetal Alloys with Fairy Cuisine, and Colossal Forge with Dwarven Ale.

Ah, I didn’t catch that. Okay, it’s still Starmetal, but for a different reason.

11%, 11% 11% – Mabinogion tree.
5% Quantity – Building Jungle.
5% Dwarven Ale.
<5% Swarm of Fairies – hard to quantify.
x40 – Inns bonus.
6 base
380 or so.

20 base.
x30 – Blacksmith bonus.

600.

Tough to pull ahead when you start out as 30% of the other thing.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Originally posted by Rahler:

I’m assuming this is “false” because the production of Inns is so much lower than the production of Blacksmiths?

Starmetal Alloys is a production/count multiplier. You will have significantly more blacksmiths than inns in the given build.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary Build/Concept Thread

Originally posted by VirgilHunter:
Originally posted by Diadem:

Ninja’d by Kholai :)

You are entirely right Kholai. The above build I made mostly because I wanted to try something with good. But it’s obvious that neutral is just so much better. Lightning strike + Earthly Bond are just too good to ignore.

And yup, this time around I picked up on the Mabinogion tree, though I actually only got the T1 and T2 version of those, since at T3 Titan Obelisk is better.

Tier 1:
Fairy – Starmetal Alloys – 580 to base of blacksmiths, lower building cost multiplier
Goblin – Strong Currency – All buildings + based on faction coins found
Titan – Colossal Forge – All buildings 1% per blacksmith
Druid – Druidic Vocabulary – Production bonus based on building tier (2250% for blacksmith)

Tier 2
Titan – Cyclopean Strength – Each assistent gets 0.25% per HoL you own
Druid – Bardic Knowledge – Production bonus based on building tier (2250% for blacksmith)
Druid – Earthly Bond – Plus 1.5 mana per stone pillar
Faceless – Overgrowth – Production bonus based on total buildings owned ever.

Tier 3
Fairy – Swarm of Fairies – Bonus assistants based on farms, inns, blacksmiths
Titan – Titan Obelisk – All buildings +2.25% per ancient pyramid
Druid – Building Jungle – Each building +1.75% per building of that type
Dwarf – Battlehammers – Bonus production based on dwarven coins found

Spells:
Titan – Lightning Strike – Huge bonus one building + ridiculous faction coins
Fairy – Fairy Chanting – Farms, Inns, Blacksmiths x100

The one change I would make immediately is to go from Blacksmith to Inns for production bonus. With the T1 fairy upgrade for Inns and Dwarven Ale you get slightly higher boosts since you can buy more Inns for the same price.

This is false. Starmetal Alloys.

 
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Topic: Realm Grinder / Mercenary upgrade

Select an alignment and read your upgrades.