Recent posts by Kholai on Kongregate

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Topic: Bloons Monkey City / Bananas

Round 1 Farm: $1080.
Income: 4 x $30 ($120) per round.
Time to pay for itself: 9 rounds.

1/0 upgrade: $325.
Additional Income: 2 x $30 ($60) per round.
Time to pay for itself: 6 rounds.

2/0 upgrade: $1510.
Additional Income: 7 x $30 ($210) per round.
Time to pay for itself: 8 rounds.

3/0 upgrade: $3455
Additional Income: 12 x $30 ($360) per round.
Time to pay for itself: 10 rounds.

4/0 upgrade: $15120
Additional Income: [10 x $300] – [25 x $30] ($2250) per round.
Time to pay for itself: 7 rounds.

x/2 upgrade: $4860
Additional Income: N x $15.
N = 4, 6, 13, 25, or 100, depending on X in x/2.
Time to pay for itself:
0: 81 rounds.
1: 54 rounds.
2: 25 rounds.
3: 13 rounds.
4: 4 rounds.

Banks suck.

Farms are beneficial in pretty much any situation that you can hold off the bloons with existing towers and without any leaks. If a 0/0 farm is kept for two rounds then sold, you’ve made a small profit in the early rounds where you need very little cash to hold off the bloons, and give you that cash when you need it in later rounds. They are also one of the main sources of income in later rounds after 28 or so (contested territory, mainly), since income per bloon is decimated. The main requirement is having a good judge of when you need to add towers and when you can upgrade your banks.

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Topic: Idling to Rule the Gods / God Power Currency Guide.

Out of curiosity, how valuable are achievements (particularly Creation achievements) in the grand scheme of rebirth? Does Creation Speed/Creation Quantity factor into getting the achievements faster, or do they not really compare with monument costs?

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Topic: Bloons Monkey City / bloonstones utility ?

Originally posted by fistoz:

So… how much BS needed just to unlock everything (upgrades, MvM) ?

Originally posted by Kholai:

Bloonstones to research all bloon types for MvM? €140.
Each upgrade path? €70
2 paths per tower and 18 towers? €2520.
Having to repeat that in two towns? €5320.

Having to wait forty-eight hours between each of those upgrades? Priceless.

So, once you’ve NLL’d 532 map squares on hardcore, or 1064 map squares on wussmode, all the other stones you get are pure profit you might as well spend on ensuring your towers have double fire rate for the entire game.

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Topic: Bloons Monkey City / bloonstones utility ?

Bloonstones to research all bloon types for MvM? €140.
Each upgrade path? €70
2 paths per tower and 18 towers? €2520.
Having to repeat that in two towns? €5320.

Having to wait forty-eight hours between each of those upgrades? Priceless.

So, once you’ve NLL’d 532 map squares on hardcore, or 1064 map squares on wussmode, all the other stones you get are pure profit you might as well spend on ensuring your towers have double fire rate for the entire game.

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Topic: Idling to Rule the Gods / Bug: Next At/Stop At doesn't advance skill progression correctly.

Expected behaviour: Filling a training bar with Next At/Stop At active should increment skill/physical level by 1, then remove clones, leaving Ignore Clonecount # clones in place.

Current behaviour: Filling the bar with more clones than Ignore Clonecount removes clones correctly, but does not increment skill level by 1 that iteration, wasting a bar’s worth of progress.

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Topic: Idle Conquest / Theories

The reason that you need more soldiers with every nation isn’t because their armies keep getting bigger, but because you have to put down successively larger rebellions in your growing Empire. This is why the islands of Kalilze and Plyket take so many troops to conquer, you’re fielding a campaign against two entire continents while you’re at it.

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Topic: Idle Conquest / Theories


1: The General is a high-ranking demon, and is the one who planted the idea of conquest in Catherine’s adorably megalomaniacal head.
- This is why Catherine always begins with no infrastructure for war, before she became Queen Catherine von Conqueror the Fourth, she was previously Princess Catherine von Consensus Builder the First. The General corrupts her each time, without the General, there is no world conquest.

2: The General is also the one who suggested to Catherine that they build altars and use black magic to summon an army of black knights, inevitably sealing the fate of the multiverse.
- Catherine is frequently disturbed by the demonic and otherworldly nature of the black knights, and clearly knows very little about demons, souls or the diabolical rituals with which she dabbles. Who, then, knows how to construct and maintain an altar? The General. Eventually, you’ll have so many Dark Knights and so much cash flying around that you’ll end up getting the ninth achievement sooner or later, resulting in a full-fledged invasion from hell.

3: Dark Knights aren’t normally allowed to enter the human realm, but the General has found a loophole, by travelling to a parallel world, the Dark Knights he contracts are able to tag along with him. In each new world, the General plants the seeds of conquest in Catherine’s head, grants her a dark army and tells her how to get more, and they proceed to conquer the planet. You’re not just conquering the same world over and over again, you’re conquering every parallel world in the entire multiverse, faster and faster as your demonic powers, fuelled by your army and your achievements in previous worlds, grow.
- This also means that if you DK Reset out of an unconquered world, you just abandoned that version of Catherine with your work unfinished, leaving her unable to ever realise her dream of world domination, and doomed to a horrible fate when the Grey Isles finish their experiments and release a rival demon clan upon the planet. You monster.

4: When the General finally finishes conquering all of creation, the next step will be invading the heavens themselves, leading the endless army of Dark Knights to topple the gods until all of heaven and earth waves the flag of Touria, and infinite numbers of Catherine will be spontaneously elevated into a single, unified cosmic being to rule over reality as the immortal God Empress of Mankind.
- There will be cookies.

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Topic: War of Omens / New Hero (New Card Suggestions)


Anna: Is intriguing, but would only really work against other players. That’s a shame, because we need more hand/bank protection cards.

I can also see Reload being very powerful, but under most conditions it’s only a restock 3 at best.

Jonah: Weird. Very, very weird. You can’t mutual defeat, you can’t be spiked down without a chance to counter-win… I’m not sure it’s an ability you can “build around” so much as powerful insurance ability that stops you losing so long as you can produce as many apples as your opponent can damage each turn. Merchant Guild and Holy Wrath would both work well, because there’s no risk in stockpiling apples, you can just use enough to reach +1 health again.

Honour Guard: Needs to be 8 gold minimum when maxed. Goats is 3 HP on average and is 6, this is 4 HP and draw a card.


It’s impossible to judge a hero based on a card type that doesn’t exist, but I will mention that that’s basically Cali’s ability.

Illusion, on the other hand, is insanely overpowered. Three turns in which your allies cannot be damaged, and three turns in which you cannot lose. Forget Zephani, this would be Jesmai’s best friend, buy Illusion, buy a flower, charge both up for three turns. Drop the flower genning up 4 Magic/turn and buy another while you’re charging. By the time you’re vulnerable again you’ve won with magic to spare.

Originally posted by Rukhron:

Embargo lvl2 (no idea for name)


In any case, Embargo itself is brutal when you get some cycles going, I can’t see this not wrecking face.

Sacrificial Altar: A weird shrine of rebirth effect that only applies to sacrifice effects? I’m not sure how this would actually work on a coding or mechanical level. What about a simpler: “On sacrifice, Feed Hero Magic” function?

In their sleep: This feels overpowered to me. Skulls are the one resource that Metris doesn’t have trouble generating, and making them both twice as powerful and ignoring intercept just means that 10 skulls is a win condition for Metris, far fewer when you account for Waylay and Ambush.

Chants of Restoration

Undecided. An omega tier lantern scroll that heals allies sounds neat, but anything over 4 charges is wasted anyway.

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Topic: War of Omens / New Hero (New Card Suggestions)

Originally posted by 9Anine9AnimeHalo:

1. Yeah if facing a non ally deck she wouldnt do much damage. :P Of course against ally decks, which would be most decks, the damage could be high.

2. Interesting, I like how you are keeping with the name of going for a different effect that fits it. Im just worried that the affect would be too endazu oriented for a Hero based Card. :P

Pantalion – Isnt there already a hero with a similar ability. The one that has 50% activate on feed.
Mobilise – Seems like a cheaper version of Benediction to me. I would at least make the card cheaper in my opinion.

2: Bulk discard is pretty safely Metris in my opinion, or do you mean that it messes with Endazu too hard?

Pantalion: Regent Marsh is On Feed Ally: 50% that ally attacks. So you might feed a Bishop to heal it and get an attack out of it, while with Pantalion, you’d outright activate it to get the full x4 resources.

Mobilise: Consider Sofocatro with Mobilise and no allies. Mobilise would always work as a Courtly Intrigue. Making it cheaper would mean that he could run three Courtly Intrigues are 3, 4 and 4 gold respectively, a no-brainer for a Sofocorruption deck, and probably a very strong argument to replace Masquerade entirely.

For a Pocchi Benediction deck, Mobilise is, to start, a Collect Taxes (and has a 1/N+1 chance of being a collect taxes for him at all times). When he drops a Catapult, Mobilise is a 50/50 Collect Taxes, and a 50/50 “Lead the Charge” at 150% power. Drop a Bishop, and it’s a 1/3 chance of being a “Tribute” for 4 gold. Drop a Marshal and it’s 25% chance of being all three!

It’s such a powerful ability I’m almost positive that it’s underpriced at 4 gold.

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Topic: War of Omens / New Hero (New Card Suggestions)

suicide bomber-slaves
cost 6/5/4 1 hp, on death, attack for 5 dmg, 50%chance destroy.

Overpowered. Not Daramek Flavour.
Sacrifice for an instant 5 damage plus sacrifice bonus. Turn 1: Suicide Bombers. Turn 2: Fertility Ritual. Turn 3: Suicide Bombers. 50% Redraw Suicide Bombers. Turn 4: You’ve already won by this point.

cost8/7/6 2HP, on turn/feed, attack, itercept, 10%chance retaliate, 10% chance dodge.

Not Daramek Flavour.
You’ve taken a Mercenary and swapped 40% Retaliate for 10% Dodge.

cost7/6/5 2HP, for every enemy card killed 20% destroy that card and get a gold paneler, on turn, 50% attack for 1.

You’ve taken a Destroy effect – 5 gold, 3 turn charge, and given it a 20% chance every single death event.

cost 11/10/9 steal random enemy, (enemy ally becomes your card)
useless VS other damarek, but great VS vespitole

Batnuggets overpowered. Not Daramek flavour.

You’ve taken Seduce, you’ve made it permanent, you’ve make it reusable, and you’ve made it red. I don’t even know what the hell.

canibal pack-herd(?)
cost 7/6/5 4HP on turn, attack; damage something/enemy ally die, recover 1HP.

This isn’t a bad mechanic for Daramek, and it’s an interesting way of eating through Frames, but I’m not sure why it needs 4 Health. 3 Health might be more reasonable.

vespitole. (all posses “draw a card”)
cost 6/5/4 on turn/feed, attack hero, 15%chance attack twice.

Instant win the moment you get X food? And why is there an arbitrary % for an extra attack?

6/5/4 on feed, draw a card, on turn, 40% lose 1 gold.

Start turn, buy Politic. Feed six food. You’ve won the game by going infinite.

9/8/7 3HP on turn, steal resorce, on feed, attack.

Not Vespitole flavour.
A soldier without Intercept and a Cutpurse attached. I recall suggesting “On Feed: Enemy loses 1 resource/Gain 1 gold.” for something similar, but I’m not sure flat out resource steal is kosher.

comerce raiding- prospery(?)
5/4/3 steal all income enemy get next turn.

Terribad. Insanely overpowered. Not Vespitole Flavour.

Define “Income”. Every time they play a coin? Every time an ally generates resources? This is one of the most powerful cards imaginable, since it’s flat out better than Strategem, and you can cycle it, and it only costs 3 gold?

cost 7/6/5 1 HP random contruction(paralise, catapult and such) recover/gains 1HP/charge

Borderline useless.
Walls are kind of mediocre, a card that boosts them on-turn is conditional and weak. Healing a very specific subset of allies: Catapult, Ballista, Warship is equally mediocre. Why not simply a medic card that heals all allies on turn?

4/3/2 turn 1 food/glod/skull into magic.

Either insanely overpowered or insanely underpowered.
If this is: Convert 3 resources into 1 Magic, then it’s underpowered and pointless. Vespitole can already convert 1 Food into 1 Magic, and produce ample magic just by running Prayer.
If this is: Convert 1 of each into 1 Magic each, then it’s overpowered and generates 3 magic per cheap, cyclable card.
If this is: Convert a random non-magic resource into 1 magic, then it’s still overpowered. Vespitole has no issues with producing resources, particularly gold. Why would anyone use Prayer?

angry mob-underlings

7/6/5 4HP on turn attack and enemy lose 1 resorce. destroyed when killed.

Meh. It’s functional I suppose. No clue why it has 4 HP considering it’s probably nastier than Brute.

cost 6/5/4 1HP, on turn attack strongest and gain 1 skull, 50% destroyed when killed

Meh. A 4 gold 1 HP ally that essentially Attacks Hero and produces a skull? This isn’t really worth the price.

cost 6/5/4 3HP ,on turn attack, retaliate. isn’t destroyed on killed

Not Metris flavour/Overpowered.
It’s a Brute, with a guaranteed 3 damage retaliate instead of an attack per turn, and it breaks the standard Metris ally rule.

7/6/5 HP=charges, on hold gains 2 charges, for every killed enemy, lose a charge(therefore reduces max HP) and gain a guilded warrior.

So it has 20 HP when you drop it? I don’t even know where to start with this.

magic elemental-anima
apparence: a purple tornado with eyes
11/10/9 HP, resorce production and attack=charges, on hold gain 1 charge, max five, on turn, produces magic and attack, 20% chance to dodge.

It’s a flower attached to a Gilded Warrior with a 20% dodge chance attached. It’s hugely expensive for Endazu, but it they do play it then it will not only be able to heal itself to full every turn (and grow itself with Jesmai), but will also bust out Warship damage. I don’t know what to make of this except that it’s basically copying existing cards.

6/5/4 on hold, gain 2 charges(max10), on turn, lose a charge and sommom a flower or a guilded warrior.

This one actually has potential, but it has some serious downsides right now. 1 ally / turn is easily outpaced, it’s random, and you might as well be dropping a Grave Contract and deploying an army in a single turn. Plus inscriptions don’t charge on hold.

new hero, Overlord, can use cards from any faction, but cards cost 1 more.

At very least I’d say: “Cards are one level lower” rather than cost 1 more, to strictly limit how many can go into a deck.

Working off this, however:

Assassin, Courtesan: 8 Gold Inquisitor.
Rite of Combat, Serfs, Feast: Infinite damage combo.
Overseer, Marshal, Benediction, Endazu: Drop a 10 charge flower, get 10 Magic. Drop two flowers, win. Endazu is balanced around not getting multiple activations a turn.
Grave Contract, Liturgy: Generate skeletons to generate magic to generate skeletons.
Metris, Embargo, Usury: Your opponents might as well kill themselves.
Synod, Anyone: Anyone. Especially Metris.

There’s a lot of breakability in this that would need careful consideration, but maybe the +1 level is enough? It would need careful testing.

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Topic: War of Omens / WAR! Hunh! What is it good for?

Originally posted by kikix12:
Also I cannot agree on the health notion. This is actually quite a big deal. Resource doubler on one or two health certainly is easily balancable, but having that on four health card, especially in Vespitole, is quite a lot more difficult. The closest comparison is Dire Boars, which requires a sacrifice of a creature. As far as this can be made advantageous, it is still a drawback that limits its X3 attacks utility. Hence health should be included in the consideration.

I believe you’ve misunderstood me; by “ignore health and cost” I mean focus solely on the core ability of the card without trying to attach a health or gold cost to that mechanic. You’re quite right that certain mechanics are unbalanceable within a reasonable price, and health is vitally important, but those values can be attached to a mechanic, not the other way round.

Few more ideas:

On Turn: For each health, attack.

An idea for Warship – Start out attacking x5. Attack it to wear down its output, and take that damage anyway.

On Turn: Attack.
On Feed: Dodge Next Attack (maximum X)
Intercepts attacks.

Another alternative card, where you can basically overcharge its health.

For a slightly more offensive version, have it be: On Turn/Feed: Attack, Dodge next attack. This is a resource doubler in the same way as Feed: x2 Attack, but in a much more defensive manner.

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Topic: War of Omens / Usury - Pointless

Worth noting: They repay on their turn, not yours. They get 6 gold and immediately lose 2, giving them 4 gold to play with, and you a 2 gold producer that only one faction can deal with. Disregard, this is what I get for believing other people without checking myself.

Honestly I think the naysayers just aren’t familiar enough with Vespitole to know how devastating a badly timed loan can be, or just how brutal a Vespitole player with an income of 5+ gold a turn can be.

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Topic: War of Omens / New Hero (New Card Suggestions)

1: There’s a decent potency to an affect that doesn’t go away, and Seduce in particular is a game winning effect. My biggest concern would be that Anine would be an all-or-nothing hero; either she’s changing games or she’s achieving nothing at all, and it’s that kind of all-or-nothing style that I hate about Metris in general, balancing an overwhelming effect with “It only wins everything some of the time” feels tacky.

2: Yeah, a lot of cards just don’t have charges. What about:

Confusion 7/6/5

Both players discard their hand and draw three cards.

This would really mess up Endazu, clear out that annoying Shrine of Rebirth backlog (and bypass Esra’s hero ability), and at very least take out Vespitole’s pocket, infinite attempt, or only Warship. And annoy Theodox.

As to the price, with a draw three cards mechanic it only costs Metris 2 gold total after you cover the entry fee (or gets rid of a Daramek sacrifice card you didn’t want).

Pantalion: Vespitole Hero.
Appearance: A musketeer with a goatee and a cool feathered hat. Like…. This guy except with a green tabbard and the Vespitole symbol:
On turn: Activate random ally.

Hero card: Mobilise: 6/5/4 – War
Activate random ally.

NB: Pantalion cannot be activated by Marshals or his own ability. Mobilise/Benediction, sure.

Pantalion would be a powerful and versatile ally specialist, something of the opposite of Ysadora. Slower, without allies to escalate, but with more utility out of any ally he managed to deploy and keep on the field. Probably the only hero that would get real use out of walls, since they wouldn’t dilute his ability onto Serfs or Soldiers.

Mobilise has potential in any non-ally deck for the primary three to just serve as a second resource card of their hero-type, while being 50% chance to activate a single ally, 100% with Pantalion.

Turn 1: Loan > Bishop.
Turn 2: Bishop generates 2 Gold – offsetting Loan costs. Buy Mobilise. With resultant magic/gold buy corrected cost 6 gold Rampart.
Turn 3: Enemy player quits in the face of

Turn 1: Catapult!
Turn 2: Buy mobilise for 9 damage.
Turn 3: Enemy player quits.

Mmm. Yeah, I’d love playing with this hero. Price on Mobilise might need a +1 though.

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Topic: War of Omens / WAR! Hunh! What is it good for?

Originally posted by test43:

Maybe it was good start. But now? I don’t want to point all stupid ideas, I will just talk about the worst one… Knight feed – attack x2? Really? How many cards make one resource into 2 you can see there? I will tell you – a few. A few special, extremely expensive situational cards like Merchant Guild or Corruption – need combo with bounty to work or inquisitor… And you want do cheap card, with 4 hp and 100 retaliate ALSO do the resource * 2 thing? Guys, you totally don’t know how this game is working.

Or Holy Wrath, which just doubles Magic into damage, it’s actually kind of Vespitole’s thing to take resources and multiply them, damage is just another resource to Vespitole.

But yeah, ignoring the rest of the suggestion I would say that a 1 Food : 2 Attack card would be balanceable (and War’s only Resource doubler) if not very exciting – it’s a strictly weaker effect than Inquisitor on both levels. Ignoring cost and health is probably for the best when at a brainstorming stage for core card mechanics.

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Topic: War of Omens / WAR! Hunh! What is it good for?

Alright, brainstorming a few possible abilities.


On Turn: All “X” attack.
Intercepts Attacks.

X, in this case, would be the card type in question. So if this were on the soldier, then each Soldier would attack once per other soldier in play. The Arsenic of the military world.


On Turn: Attack
Ignores first N points of damage each turn.
Intercepts Attacks.

This would make a brutal turtle, with a slightly more aggressive take on Golem’s regeneration without the unkillability.


On Turn: Lose 1 Gold.
Whenever you play a coin: Attack.

A card that actually rewards coin use, a Mercenary would be a powerful card, but relying on them will cripple your economy (while generally performing about equally to a Catapult at a similar cost with a disadvantage).

Warship: On Turn: Attack x4.
When hit: 50% retaliate.

Warship exists to cause damage and be troublesome. Since it’s probably going to accrue some retaliation damage itself, why not give it the retort? At slightly less output, but with a counter against anyone with the gaul to take it on, the average warship will probably output more damage overall.

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Topic: War of Omens / Scavengers are useless(?)


When an ally is discarded, gain +1 Random Resource.

Problem solved, Scavengers are now overpowered.

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Topic: War of Omens / WAR! Hunh! What is it good for?

That’s a very good point I hadn’t considered Itz, Retaliate isn’t just killing their ability to attack retaliators, there are times it’s just actively provoking more damage, which isn’t necessarily what you want on a card intended to keep your other allies safe.

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Topic: War of Omens / WAR! Hunh! What is it good for?

So yeah. The War tab. It’s the Herds of Vespitole. Lot of redundancy and a few unique, different cards. Can it be done better?

Militia: A simple resource producer. I’ve always had a soft spot for Militia, though Courtesan’s arguably better with the amount of ignore intercept flying around lately, even with the 0.25 retaliate.

Mercenary: This is a card where the 50% retaliation upgrade really hurt it. Before, Mercenary justified its cost by being the Militia that could beat down Frames and Lepers, now it has a 50% chance every hit of accidentally killing itself. The fact that Supplicant can self-heal for free off its own magic, and it’s a gold cheaper, Mercenary just isn’t worthwhile.

Soldier: Soldier has always been a joke. Even accessible straight off a loan, why would you bother? Pay 2 more gold and get a knight for ~x2 its retaliation damage output, pay 4 less for a Militia that’s just as efficient at turning Food into Murder, or pay 3 less and get a Supplicant for taking out those Frames.

Knight: Kind of worth it, a Knight is a guaranteed 4 damage, even if that damage is on the opponent’s turn and under their control, it’s pretty nice to have an intercepting leper which pressures the opponent to remove it all by itself.

Compare Courtesan to Inquisitor, Wealthy Patron to Banker, or, I guess, Vintner to Bishop. There’s a broad similarity between their roles, but not redundancy, why does Militia need three clones?

Palisade: This used to be great against Metris Burn, vital protection for weenies, and vital against hero damage in general since it’s one of the few methods Green had that stood up against poison. Meanwhile Rampart is less efficient, unlike every other resource type, where it’s 4:1 / 7:2 Gold.

Yeah, they’re cheaper now, but the same thing that’s hurt the War allies has hurt walls. Since Serfs are even cheaper still, and protect against Waylay, Barbs, Catapults, and Seduce (And even malediction type attacks are less devastating with the bulking up of Vespitole), and importantly work with Vespitole’s own Ally-Leverage cards like Spy Network.

Marshal: Now we’re getting somewhere. Marshal is a tactically powerful card which can, arguably, serve nicely in any ally deck.

Lead the Charge: No complaints really; Lead the Charge is a slightly worse Masquerade Ball that’s been discounted to compensate. Vespitole is all about Resource generation.

Ballista: One of the few rush-worthy cards in Vespitole, Loan into two Ballistae is a nasty first turn “hello”, and its inability to on-feed isn’t a deal breaker considering its double output and newfound tankiness.

Catapult: It’s a ballista, except instead of being identical to the Ballista except bigger, it has a unique twist of ignoring intercept.

Warship: And then we backslide. Warship is powerful, but now that Ballista and Catapult aren’t glass siege weapons anymore, it’s not actually that impressive. At 14 Gold, it’s the most expensive “Xship” of any of the three factions, but arguably the worst, since it lacks the self-recovery of the Cowship (which is inherently glorious with Overseers) or the tactical versatility of Gilded Warriors. Two Catapults are cheaper, deal more damage, ignore intercept, and aren’t much less tanky.

So to throw open the floor:

  • Do you like the granularity of War’s four primary allies? Do you routinely have a different use for each of them?
  • What mechanics ideas might be interesting to put into Militia type cards? Remember that health and cost can be reworked around new abilities, and they don’t necessarily have to include any of their existing traits. Could Mercenary attack weakest instead of intercepting? Could Soldier be the best retaliator and Knight doisomething completely different, like ignoring the first point of damage they take every turn? Remember Herds were transformed into something versatile and varied that was almost completely different to the original, so don’t feel too constrained.
  • Am I being too hard on Palisade and Rampart? Just because they’re non-retaliating intercept cards that don’t have any abilities and are wastes of space against certain deck archetypes, they could be useful for something, right? What else could a fortress type card even do? Restock 1 War type ally a turn?
  • Is Warship good as it is? What if it were essentially two Catapults stuck together, dealing the most damage of any warship but having the lowest health?
  • Maybe the answer to the problem lies in the single missing card in the War tab? What card would you like to see finishing up War for good?
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Topic: War of Omens / Mogesh's ability now redundant

Originally posted by Flint_A:

Actually, that would be great for Daramek. Or heck, just make all sacrifices “sacrifice weakest HERD”. There is rarely any point in sacrificing non-herd allies. I don’t need to copy my Overseers. It fits thematically too, why would you sacrifice humans if you have big juicy animals?

No point in sacrificing non-herd animals? I don’t even. Lepers for everything? Feast-cycle your rat catchers? Clear your board to get on-play advantages from them with Overseer?

Mogesh’s ability conflates nicely with:

Sacred Tortoise – It costs 2 gold maxed, and people worrying about “making up for its cost” forget that every magic you use is multiplied – You will always receive healing, and every turtle increases how much gold you receive per Tortoise, and they’re never going anywhere. It’s less than a turn’s income, it will supercharge your economy very easily, and 2 magic in the course of a game is nothing.
Pig Goop – Guaranteed magic. Awesome, obviously. As soon as you have a Tortoise up, you lose nothing by having these, and if you can manage to fully max them, they’ll pay for themselves as soon as you replay them once.
Herd of Pigs – The greatest tool for Mogesh, they attack, they tank, and they produce resources when you sacrifice them. With Pig Goop, they attack for 1 as well before they die. Mmm. Bacon.
Lepers – 2 Gold for 3 damage that is typically guaranteed to output 3 damage one way or another.
Boar Fetish – Guaranteed +1 damage is neat, especially since, again, each is a constant and powerful multiplier to your already impressive damage output.
Serpent Altar – You may as well, I guess. I generally prefer either more pig goop or more pigs/lepers.
Shrine of Rebirth – Pretty well mandatory. Recycle your allies, goop, and pump your economy.
Fertility Rite – Make more pigs. Get resources. Obvious strategy is obvious.
Cull/Feast/Repop – Really not rocket science. An ally is hurt down to 1 (or you have a 1 health ally you want rid of, like Rat Catcher), use this to get them off the field and replace them with something better, probably multiple somethings better.
Shepherd’s Gift – Something to produce resources without cluttering your deck with Scavengers, and Mogesh does need the boost to his economy.
Slaughter – Get rid of damaged allies, get resources. Obvious strategy is still obvious.

Sacrificial Lamb can work with a more Slaughter focused deck, but generally they’re better as fodder for sacrifice cards than for Mogesh himself.
Even Rat Catchers work okay so long as you retain the resources to sacrifice them for resources or even more allies.

Kind of meh:


Mogesh doesn’t actually play that many cards each turn. He doesn’t accumulate vast economies, and SoR isn’t amazing with Rites on its own. For other allies you can focus on pulling out Repops and Overseers and Rat Catchers and inexpensive spammable allies (and Scriveners/Festivals all over the place).

Goats, on the other hand, can work, but generally speaking by the time you get goats working for you, you’re just running a goat deck, not being a big fat Mogesh deck.


Aurochs. Damage is nice, but at 2 resources a turn and no more inbuilt SoR, you generally want to keep them around for on-turn effects, not as lepers at +1 damage for thrice the cost.
Shepherd: Again, two useful abilities, high price, and low health.
Dire Pigs: On play abilities are lame, and Mogesh doesn’t keep allies for boars, he eats them himself.
Weenies: Mogesh likes big boars and he cannot lie. If it has 1 health and a nice on-turn ability, and that ability isn’t about drawing more big butts, then denied.

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Topic: War of Omens / Requests

Originally posted by catpaw:

3. This is the most argumentative part. Having played quite a lot games recently I get the idea that when the games draw longer and the bank only restocks by 1 each turn this randomness greatly determines the game yet is beyond the player. It just reduced strategy options, you take the next one card from the bank, you play it, nothing more to strategise on. Yes you can think about holding a little back and changing the order is worth it, often it is not. IMHO thats the weakest point of the whole game design, I know there is “Synod” which is awesome for Vesp. but only for them.

Restock whole bank? Please, I’d love to be able to go infinite in the first three turns off Loans and Collect Taxes, and juggling resources and purchases to combine getting enough resources to buying that expensive card without losing it off the bottom of my bank was too much strategising anyway.

Alternatively, try not buying everything in your bank. The more cards in your bank, the greater your control over what cards you restock, since you won’t restock duplicates.

That’s a change from 1/10 to 1/7, and there is the constant choice between buying everything from your bank for constant escalation or letting it fill up so you can deploy multiple cards at once in case of a Mayhem or other board reset. Having Bank restock every turn would diminish that, not improve it.

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Topic: War of Omens / If you could make a deck using all cards how would it be?

Tricky one, non-upgraded and no hero ability restricts what cards are viable. An interest balance choice that might even be viable with a “max level 2”, but let’s see….

Shrine of Rebirth
Collect Taxes
Courtly Intrigue
Grave Contract
Behold the Veil

Sadly, resource denial decks will moider it, since there’s very little you can run in one turn, but there are a few potential routes.

1: Early Grave Contract. Mayhem their field, summon up some skeletons in the aftermath.
2: Shrine of Rebirth with Vespitole cycling and hope for an infinite.
3: Drop Assassin behind some Serfs and support him with Courtly Intrigue.

BtV is basic cheap economy; it’s a guaranteed magic coin that earns interest, Cutpurse, equally, is for resource generation as much as to slow your opponent down to your level 1 level.

Shrine of Rebirth
Empowering Seal
Behold the Veil
Argoreth Flower

Buy Yarakeen, sit on it as long as possible (hopefully saving up enough to immediately buy Benediction with Ransack and Loan), or just output a Flower behind some serfs to try and blitz it.

Boar Fetish
Rat Catcher
Behold the Veil
Sacred Tortoise
Herd of Goats
Herd of Aurochs

Escalate with Goats and Aurochs, save up for a Benediction and a Marshal, and funnel any spare food into your Supplicant. Since Tortoise is pretty cheap this might actually work out okay, though you’re going to have a rough time if you eat a Mayhem or an Infighting.

Banishing Gust
Stolen Plans
Rite of Brood
Rat Catcher

Banishing Gust: Destroy Loans before you repay them, and Subterfuge before it expires and is destroyed. Kill cards to ensure that Feast/Rat Catcher have something to do with themselves, or just kill Rat Catchers so you can more easily Feast them back.

Probably my favourite deck so far, with a potential to go a twisted version of Infinite even without any Vespitole cyclers (Get all coins, cycle Feasts, Serfs, and Overseered Rat Catchers to escalate a Brood).

And finally: Standard Vespitole cycling deck with walls, economy cyclers, and Gilded Scribes + Words of Unmaking. One Scribe can max a Word of Unmaking every turn. Target your own coins and go infinite with no coins.

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Topic: Peacefree Tactical Warfare / Wishlist / Feature Suggestions

  • Boost Output

Command option on Extractors and Farms:

Cost: X techpower
Time: 4 Hours.

Produce 1 resource of the corresponding type.

  • Explore

Option on “special” tile types when controlled (caves, car wrecks and the like, which have flavour text about searching them, but only really offer Disassembly).
Costs Searchpower.
Lasts 12 hours.

Explore can yield survivors, hidden caches of materials, troopers being killed in accidents, unleashing a swarm of hornets (and de-occupying the tile so they can swarm), bonuses to max power caps for the rest of the map.

  • Survival mode: Cityscape. / Mountainscape

Similar to boss fight survival, except instead of vast swathes of fields you start in a territory of buildings and roads. Likewise a mountainscape – large amounts of rocky terrain, low amounts of grassland.

  • Terrain types:

Water – Can’t capture, can contain/spawn Vulpuris attackers.
Potentially: Fish square – harvest with search power to gain some food.
Mountain – Can’t capture, units can’t fly through; natural terrain barrier.
Geothermal vents – Power plants built on the square produce one more energy.
Vulpuris Factory – A ship equivalent to hornet nests.

  • Potential Building Types

Resthouse upgrades – Loses X% (I’d be happy enough with 100, but like all numbers I include, totally changeable) habitat space in exchange for boosting power caps by 1 or 2, upgradable with CC2.

Armoury/Barracks – Boost Firepower.

Factory – Boost Techpower.

Comms Station – Boost Searchpower.

Command Outpost – Counts as a Command Centre for purposes of determining activity costs in an area.

Turret upgrades:

Fortress – Continues to function with half basic cannon damage, but +50% amount of time needed to capture the tile. 3rd tier: +100%.

Sonic – Damages all ships within 1 tile in any direction for 1 damage/hour with a sonic shockwave. Upgrade extends range of shockwave to 2 tiles.

Napalm – 1 range tower with 2-3 damage blasts with a 50% chance that struck ship will lose 1 damage/hour.

  • Potential action type: Permanently invest Xpower into a task, preventing that amount from regenerating (essentially lowering maximum until/unless the task is cancelled).


Search: Harvest – Collect a steady, slow, income from a special tile (an alternative option to deconstructing those forests, bushes and mountains). This would work a lot slower than an Extractor/Farm but would give a reason to do something other than autoraze every single tile.

Fire: Reinforce – Invest Firepower into a square, attacks take N times as long to capture that square.

Tech: Bolster – Increase production of a facility (as per above Boost Output, but non-temporary), perhaps even redline a power plant for +1 energy and so on.

  • Convert civilian housing to a Rest House. Simples.
  • Change Tower Type: Sidegrade turret into the equivalent level of other turret – cost and time escalate based on level to be more time/resource intensive.
  • Disconnect: De-power specific building, meaning it turns grey and consumes no power. Takes hours to power down/up, but better than having to manually evacuate a Blaster tower by your HQ to save power, especially in Heroic.
  • Giant Kaiju non-flying monsters: Giant wasps and spaceships are neat, but a murderous stag beetle or something moving along the ground would be a nice change of pace, especially one that increases the amount of biozombies in the area. In fact, Critical Mass would be interesting – If there are a certain quantity of biozombies they become a rampaging horror you have to deal with.
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Topic: Peacefree Tactical Warfare / Do You Use Rush or Aid?

1: Aid always, rush rarely.

2: Not a lot. It’s a very micromanagey thing and I’m usually preoccupied trying to handle all the other parts of the game to sit and stare at a specific tile rushing it.

Suggestion: Rather than have Rush being an X Cooldown, double for specific number of turns, what about just Rush a particular job. That job is now always rushed (just as if you were sitting there rushing it) until completion, and Rush is on cooldown until then.
When the task completes, Rush goes into cooldown for the hour or so and can then be used on the next task.

3: It’s not a like or loathe thing. I can’t say I ever really think about mashing F whenever I’m playing. I can say that it’s never really been a gamechanger. Maybe in the very earliest points where I’ve not set up an extractor yet, and even then scavenging has generally done the job.

Suggestion: Spaceports could be a smaller, but constant, income generator. 1 Food/1 Mineral per 12 hours, 1 Trooper per 48, with tech adding to the bonus generation supplied by spaceports (and Command Centres themselves having a base resource generation to cover the loss of Aid as a skill). It would certainly make Spaceports a worthwhile structure to have more than one of, which is…. eh, right now.

Aid as a skill – what about temporarily boosting your Fire/Search/Tech power? There’s a reason to save Aid if you think you might need a sudden burst of Firepower against that Hiveship, or if you’d rather use it now to build that tech lab.

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Topic: Peacefree Tactical Warfare / Uh-oh's! Bug, Tweaks and More...

Achievement Zap and Blast Upgrades are not applying as per the tool tip’s “+4”, but rather “+2”.

Exploitable behaviour: Tech upgrades are applied to saved games.

So: Start with all points into “Start with more Allies” and any left over going into the other starting resources.
Save: Put all points into Firepower. Expand with 16 allies and boosted firepower.
When established, move points freely between Techpower, Firepower, Zap and Blast.

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Topic: Peacefree Tactical Warfare / Uh-oh's! Bug, Tweaks and More...

Having survived 103 days before HYPELing myself, I don’t see any achievements unlocked, and the gold medals displayed for survival mode are still 3 (since they show the same number as level 10).