Recent posts by Dragily on Kongregate

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Topic: Kongregate / Ultimate Kongregate Photo Topic

points back Giraffe is still as lovely as ever. ^^

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Kongregate Konvention

xO Which honestly fails, Lilz.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Kongregate Konvention

I still say we should do it in the Bay Area, if only because the company…coughs and I…are there. :3

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Moderator Beat! (Who is you favorite Mod)

No. Way. Lilz. Lilzombiegiraffe IS awesomesauce, and that’s the end of the conversation.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / AX: Animal Consciousness

Oh boy. You know, I don't think I've posted in the serious discussion thread yet...it's funny how it was Phoenix and I talking about making it a /long/ time ago back in the Off-topic forum. Anyway, before I go too far off topic... ---- *Axiom: Machines are not conscious and do not have cognition whatsoever.* *Axiom: Consciousness is defined in two forms, one as phenomenal consciousness and the other as access consciousness. Phenomenal consciousness is essentially how one experiences the physical world, and access consciousness is the processes that act upon those experiences.* Animal consciousness. Where is the line drawn between imitation and cognition? When can we say that an animal is completely self-aware? These questions have plagued my mind over the last couple of months while reading some texts on the philosophy of biology. This has been a terribly long fought debate between psychologists, philosophers, biologists, animal activists, politicians, and many, many other people...and its relevance to the modern day and age should be more than obvious to anyone who hasn't been under a rock in the last couple of decades. Now that bioethics has risen to a peak in the eyes of many people worldwide, properly defining animal conscious could be seen as having followed in its tracks, as those creatures who have been defined as having higher order cognitive functions could be considered to deserve greater rights than other creatures. Machines are beings without consciousness that can be built to almost any specification. Should it be desired, a machine that has the capabilities of acting similarly to creatures can also be built. When behavior is examined, machines such as Turing machines or Braitenberg vehicles provide excellent examples as to how certain machines can mimic the behavior of live creatures. The Turing machines can be said to imitate implicit behavior in a very direct way, as they model machines that write symbols on tapes based upon their current internal state and upon an external stimulus received. For example, should the Turing machine in question be in one state, it could produce a “0” if in one state and a “1” if in another state. After creating its answer, it would then move to a different state and continue its work. Precisely, the Turing machine consists of tape divided into individual cells with symbols from a finite alphabet, a head that can read and write symbols and move the tape left and right, a table of instructions that tells the machine to do certain things based upon the tape, and a state register that can store the current state of the Turing machine. Every part of the machine is finite other than how much tape it has, which is considered infinite. When it comes to behavior, one can consider the individual parts of the different Turing machines to be different parts of an animal’s mind. The state register, for example, provides a fairly distinct and obvious connection. The internal state that a creature has can drastically change the way it reacts to certain external stimuli just as the state the Turing machine is in will do similarly. The table of instructions a Turing machine can have could be equated to the different reactions an animal has to certain stimuli, and the instructions of a Turing machine could technically be expanded infinitely. The head of a Turing machine acts as the body of an animal, as they both receive inputs and produce outputs. Finally, the tape could be seen as the external stimuli a creature experiences throughout life. In other words, the Turing machines could be said to simulate forms of logic and anywhere from simple to complex thought patterns in animals. While they may process things very slowly, these machines can simulate the logic patterns of any sort of routine or subroutine found in any programming language, including parameter-passing mechanisms and recursive procedures. Braitenberg vehicles demonstrate a more physical counterpart to the machine examples. These machines demonstrate the different capabilities of reactive agents in a simple sense. All of their actions are based upon external stimuli, and they use absolutely no internal memory or inference. What Braitenberg proposes, however, is that when humans examine these machines, they would consider even the simplest machines to be alive. Building upon them would show behavior that could be classified as cowardice, anger, love, or preference, and when humans view the slightly more complex vehicles, he contends that they would believe that the machines have some form of goal in mind. Ultimately, these vehicles can be constructed to react to any external stimulus in any way, given a proper internal mechanism. These reactions can include the simplest movements such as simple forward movement to more complex movements such as producing auditory signals which can thus act as an external stimulus for another Braitenberg vehicle. Remember the axiom declared at the beginning that notes that vehicles have no consciousness. Regardless of this, when one is to view their behavior, one could come to the understanding that animals act very similar to them. If not just similar, the conclusion that they act in the same way could be contended. In that case, unless one was to look at the neurophysiology of the mammal and the machine in question, there would be absolutely no way to create a distinction between them. If one is to define consciousness as a trait by using behavior, the Turing machines and Braitenberg vehicles are prime counterexamples of this, unless one is to argue that the obviously unconscious machines have somehow gained consciousness through means other than their internal mechanisms or programming. From this, one can conclude that although certain behaviors could be seen as a resulting trait from consciousness, one cannot identify consciousness through behavior. ---------- These machines explained represent only one side of the debate of animal consciousness, however. Mammals also have very similar behavior to humans, and in that case, the neurophysiology is also somewhat comparable. In the case of humans, consciousness is a given trait as the first hand evidence is incontrovertible. Phenomenal consciousness is thought of to have a possibility that there might be a relative feeling between a mammal and a human. In other words, while it may be impossible to describe what it is like to be a particular mammal, there is something that it is like to be that mammal. Looking at behavior once again, there are many obvious similarities between mammal and human behavior. Reactions of many mammals to pain, for example, could include high-pitched vocalizations, avoidance mechanisms, and the nursing of injuries, all of which are also seen in humans. Some mammals will also display forms of altruism. Kuni, a bonobo chimp, was seen bringing a stunned starling up to the top of a tree, carefully spreading its wings and then throwing it into the sky. It is hard to assume that this behavior was anything other than some form of empathy from the chimp to the starling. In a more obscure sense, many mammals also experience similar illusions that humans do. Rhesus monkeys and chimps, for example, are susceptible to the Ponzo illusion, which is a trait shared in humans. This suggests that they have similar visual stimuli. These few examples do seem to point that mammals have similar behavior to humans. Access consciousness can also be seen in some ways. The application of previous experiences of conscious pain for avoidance is an example of how rationality can be spurred from memory. Kuni’s story is another powerful example as it would have required the bonobo chimp to have a working understanding of birds and she would have to have applied that knowledge to help that starling fly. The latter of these two examples has no relation to improving the chimp’s fitness, either, making it an even more striking example of access consciousness. The similarities that humans have to pain and altruism could be considered evidence pointing towards the direction of identifying mammal consciousness. Doing so based solely upon behavior is, however, flawed as was described earlier with the machine examples. Examining the neurophysiology of these mammals may prove to be a more convincing argument for the existence of their consciousness, however differences in brain size and structure are said to be possibly due to differing behavioral adaptations. For example, certain strategies used in food-seeking behavior correlates with having larger brain sizes. Rats, who use whiskers in a vast number of activities, have a much larger part of their cortex devoted to those whiskers, however they only have a small portion dedicated to vision. Regardless of this, the rats still share many brain functions. In general, all mammalian creatures have similar main brain structures and functions. The relative brain region sizes are the key differences as those mammals who use certain regions more than others have those regions developed stronger. A large amount of research has also gone into how mammals and humans react towards certain anesthetics and it has proven to be valid for many cases. While inductive in reasoning, it can be said that the validity of this research shows how certain mammals who undergo these tests and humans who use the same medicines have some similarities in brain structure and function. As such, it would seem arbitrary to say that the mammals who experience the same neural functions that humans do from certain external stimuli don’t feel the same conscious experiences that humans do. A key counterargument against this, however, is that the entire argument is built upon similarity, and is thus inherently weak. Chimpanzees, for example, are sometimes thought of to have no theory of mind or phenomenal consciousness. In interactions with human food providers, they fail to understand the role of eyes in providing visual information to the humans. In other words, despite similar outward behavior towards humans using such cues as facial orientation, the argument for analogy fails due to the slight disparities in behavior. One way to get around this weakness is to define a theoretical reason as to how to connect the scientifically observable characteristics of the mammals in question to the capability for consciousness. Progress may be able to be made if the capacities of mammals to correct perceptual errors are examined. For example, humans have the capacity to exploit the content of incorrect perception, such as when they deceive others or answer how things appear to them instead of how they really are. Should this exist in mammals, the existence of both phenomenal and access consciousness would be answered in a strong sense as the animal would easily show the ability to manipulate their own understanding of the world to manipulate others’ understanding of the world. -------- Ultimately, the determination of animal consciousness is still very, very far off. Unless a strong correlation between certain characteristics and consciousness is provided, there will always be doubt as to whether or not access consciousness in the mammals exist. It would appear that using behavior as a key for defining consciousness would primarily work with phenomenal consciousness and nothing deeper than that as well, so neurophysiology and theoretical discussion may be the best way to go about identifying it. Regardless, this issue is still important to many people worldwide. Moral consideration of animals is one key point which has been examined for many years, and learning whether or not animals are conscious and in particular feel pain would be a solution to many of the issues surrounding those ethics. To philosophers of mind, this topic is also important as identifying where humans are on the spectrum of consciousness is an important goal as well. Should this issue be solved, it could lead to future studies of avian and reptile consciousness, and a stronger understanding of access consciousness in humans should be created. I wanted to open this topic that has been raging through in my head to all of you. I hope it's not too technical, but if you have any questions, I am here to answer them. ::edit:: Damn. I...didn't realize it, but I had been typing for the last three or four hours. Erm...thanks for reading it all this way if you did.
 
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Topic: Kongregate / Can it be? Is it possible?

I’m…honestly surprised. How often do games ever get rated positively when badges/cards come out for them? Hear hear, TLC, for being an exceptional, yet underrated game.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Your First Impossible Badge

Hm. I think I’m in Mal’s boat. Either that or it was Streamline…it’s quite an easy game.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Suggestion for new room, 18+ / Mature Only

chuckles Wow. The mature room topic resurfaced. Well, anyway folks, I hate to say it but this has already been considered back around December of last year. While I can’t necessarily speak for the staff, I think you can pretty much assume that this won’t go through if it hasn’t yet already.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Ultimate Kongregate Photo Topic

8000 points here! XO ((You know, Jim…what would happen if this surfaced like…seven or so years from now? That’d be an interesting story to tell, I’m sure.))

And…wow, Scooter. laughs That’s…interesting. xD Though I think the guy you have is just a bit fuzzier around the chin area…though nice call on the sticky note.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Homosexual discrimination?

This issue honestly troubles me greatly. Going beyond the simple fact that the moderator in question went beyond the moderator guidelines and acted upon their on volition…drawing a line as to where users can express themselves without fear of starting flame wars or so has always been an interesting topic for me.

Going back to the OP, one really has to understand that the internet is a harsh culture. I will outright say that I would personally never tell anyone to keep any sort of non-prejudicial opinion to themselves…however I can more than easily see situations where saying even the least controversial opinion would elicit excessive behavior on the part of other members of the room. While the moderator who told you to not express your opinion said so because it would be considered “flame bait,” one has to wonder if perhaps they didn’t ultimately help both you and the general chat room as a whole by maintaining peace.

Then again, there’s always Franklin’s saying, “Those who are willing to sacrifice a little liberty to gain a little security deserve neither and will lose both.” There’s also, “Just because you have free speech, doesn’t mean you can walk into the middle of a crowded theatre and yell, ‘FIRE!’” Whenever I think of free speech, these quotes are what I think of. To distinguish when one should be used over the other has been a constant struggle for many people, and this is just one more example to add to the list. Yeah, the rules lean towards Kythera’s side…but…

Say for example, Kythera expressed his point completely and some users were completely against homosexuals. Also say that they would begin flaming Kythera because of it. If one were to assume that this situation had no moderators present, the chat room could potentially degrade into a cesspool of insults and discriminatory comments thrown both ways. One could logically conclude that this outcome is worse than the less-offensive conversation that would have resulted should Kythera not have expressed his sexuality. Should that moderator have foreseen this result, they may have told Kythera to not express himself in order to avert that conclusion. ((Of course, I don’t know what exactly the moderator told Kythera, but I can hope that this was the reason for it.))

Moderators are present in order to maintain and protect the general user experience. To stop pages upon pages of flaming and discrimination by stopping one user’s opinions from being publicly announced may seem like a kind, logical solution…however again, it just ultimately isn’t a satisfying answer. As part of the LGBT community myself, I too could consider it insulting if I couldn’t express an opinion in what should be open chat like in Kongregate’s chatrooms. If the topic was indeed about sexuality, whatever the reason, I too would wish to express myself at the risk of being insulted by others. As many have earlier noted, it’s the internet, and of course some degree of insult should be tolerated without much care. To be completely restricted from expressing those opinions, however…is just a troublesome thing to be.

I don’t consider either side of the argument to be at fault. The moderator obviously didn’t insult Kythera or his sexual preferences as made obvious by his referring to the comments as being, “flame bait.” Should harsher terms have been used, I might have thought otherwise, but if indeed the moderator was trying to avert chat from a potentially destructive conversation, this could have been a fair solution. On the other side, as Kythera noted, he didn’t randomly just bring up his sexuality as a statement of nothing more than pride. If the chatroom’s topic was sexuality as he said, input from the homosexual side could prove to be a very intriguing and enriching experience for many users who may not have as much contact with homosexuals.

To be perfectly honest, I knew I wasn’t going to come to a proper conclusion in this post. I do, however, hope that I have shed some light on the behavior on both sides of the argument. The following being more of a call from a moderator, in any case…as Malachi said, I don’t intend on restricting any sort of non-trolling/non-discriminatory speech in my room, so if you would like, Zero Axis is always open for anyone.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Ultimate Kongregate Photo Topic

Congratulations, Greer family. :D Molly is terribly cute~ :33

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Ultimate Kongregate Photo Topic

Meh. So I don’t think I’ve posted since like…the second page or something like that. Why not. :D

Zomg emo pic. Shield your eyes at the ugly, little ones. xO

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/20080722012627103.jpg

It’s a chopstick. :D Oh, AND an irritatingly arrogant Dragily.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/20080729035150721.jpg

That one’s a bit more recent. Same date as the first one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/20080729035920216.jpg

I KNOW this is going to lead to some controversy.

Still, I refuse to deny my undead heritage.

Omnomnom. xO ((I really just wanted to throw in a brain into the mix. Big surprise…seeing as how I love psychology, any philosophy of mind, and…anything brain-related. >→))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/20080722012757468.jpg

Let’s throw in my practice foil for the sake of it. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/20080623040421001.jpg

Oh gawd. So Asian. And I swear, I leave my room. …I just…never have any photographic evidence of it.

I have friends outside of Kong…really I do…>→;

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Help with this week's challenge!

I’ll have to agree with Matt on this one – I think that 16 is perhaps the next difficult level after 12. I honestly got 12 without much effort…sorry to those stuck on it…but 16 has definitely puzzled me. I think a good medium badge would be to beat it, in any case…easy could be level 5 or so, the card could be 12, and hard could be all 50.

For names…((And forgive me for I am miserable at naming~))

Easy: Young beat

Medium: Beat performer

Hard: Pulse maestro

Can’t think of any good challenge names/pictures, however.

::edit::
In that case, perhaps the card at reaching 12 instead?

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Super Crazy Guitar Maniac Deluxe 3 has arrived to Kongregate!

This is troublesome…while holding down either the ASDF or 1234 notes, for some absolutely random reason, it just faults me for pressing a different key. Of course, I have made sure that it really wasn’t my error…but has anyone else encountered this? I really would like a solution—getting perfect scores is really difficult if there’s even a single hold in it…xO

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Argue (About Everything!) Alpha Testers Wanted

Hm…this seems interesting. Sure, why not. :3

 
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Topic: Kongregate / we won people's choice at sxsw!

Congrats again, yes? :3

 
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Topic: Kongregate / New card art!

Really, Chris? To be entirely honest, I don’t think they jive together at all. Perhaps with a little bit of color palette swapping, perhaps it might just look better—but I don’t think that the colors of the new cards are aesthetically pleasing to the eye juxtaposed with that of the old ones. ((And yes, not just with Rumiko. xD)) That and the obvious style difference in faces. I’ve always considered faces to be the most important set of features any one piece of artwork of a human can have. Since the styles have obviously changed, it’ll always be a little bit…eeeeeeep-ish with me.

In any case, ultimately, it comes down to the eye of the beholder. While I don’t much care for the new style, it’s quite obvious that others do, which is indeed more than okay. :3

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Kongregate Shirts

On a similar note, does the staff have any plans for releasing Kong merchandise any time soon?

 
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Topic: Technical Support / Momentum Missle Mayhem 2 badge issues

Sidenote…after getting the hard badge, I went back to the medium. Got a score that was over 10k and I got the badge…and I assumed that Greg or whoever uploads badges made a mistake. Guess I was right—refreshed the page, and there it was. xD Survive for 100 seconds. Anyway, nevermind, I suppose~ But I’ll leave the thread open for Cloud_9ine’s sake.

 
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Topic: Technical Support / Momentum Missle Mayhem 2 badge issues

Hmm…I know this was just recently released, but let’s see here. I do believe that there’s an issue with the medium badge with MMM 2. Seems like it could either be that the badge just doesn’t get awarded, or the wrong number was written up for the badge. Anyway, here’s a bit of proof…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/MMMMediumBadge.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/Draguri/MMMMediumBadge2.jpg

Anyway, it just seems like despite the score being reached, the badge isn’t awarded. Thoughts?

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Holiday Header (Art Contest)

Mario, Felix, wonderful work indeed. :3 Congratulations on winning to the both of you~

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Kongregate Team @ WhatPulse

This thing is absolutely amazing. XD I’m quite pleased that you guys have shown us this. :D Good call, good call. Now then. goes to IM some more people >33 Let’s rack up these keystrokes~~

 
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Topic: Kongregate / [Suggestion] 18+ Chat Room

Streamline, Jude? XD Aww…but Streamline is looove. :D

Damijin and Jude are right, though. Mods aren’t about to go banning people the instant they use any sort of swear word or whatever. I mean, hell, I know I’ve said “Damn this badge is being hard to get,” or things similar. There’s a reason Greg constantly tells the community that he makes mods as lenient as we can be. Key thing is, mods actually don’t want to ban people. We don’t want to have to do our jobs, basically. If everything could remain relatively civil, then that’d be the ideal state. The only thing is that sometimes, someone says something a little bit off the mark, and someone else can take that as offensive. Then, some flame war of some sort appears and we have a problem. That’s different, and of course we’d want to stop it. As you said, Shoespeak, the mods do make attempts at stopping offending content from spreading.

Well anyway…it sounds like what you want from the 18+ chat room is exactly that. A place for people to basically flame, spam, offend, and etcetera, right? Not to say that I’m against it, necessarily, but I do have a few issues with something like that showing up. The question that pertains the most, really, is where the moderation line is passed. While what you’re asking for seems like a less-moderation zone…what I’m afraid might happen is that it’d end up becoming a no-moderation zone. I’m afraid people may end up doing something creating bots that link sites hundreds of times a minute or something, or it might become a brooding ground for warez, hacks, or the like.

Again, I’m not entirely against the idea…but I think that this situation may prove to be a bit of a thinking point for you guys. There’re always other places to yell or scream…and in fact, I think that it’d be best handled in an instant messaging program. Well anyway, I suppose we’ll just have to see how it turns out.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Hexiom impossible badge...

I honestly think 4-5 minutes would still make for a good impossible badge. A lot of it is also kinda based on luck, since the hexagons you’re given to start with can make the game either heaven or hell.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Rate the difficulty of the impossible badges

I thought I was right…guys, there’re actually 10 different impossible badges. Not seven, or the number that the topic creator said. Anyway, here they are in order of difficulty as per how I’d rate them.

1) Interstellar Golf Deity – Gravitee: Oh for heavens sakes, I swear…I played each course a good five times with the hole in one overlay, then switched back to the regular to try to get this one. It was extraordinarily difficult for me to figure out the gravity system…and there’s just that one hole in every round that trips you up. Definitely the hardest to master, I feel.

2) Hexiompossible – Hexiom: This one was pretty bad, too. I think it’s probably because I never really developed a strategy to solve the puzzles. I ended up just getting lucky with mine.

3) Black Hole Escape Artist – Fold: Again, pretty tough. The worst one for me was the pole vault one. If my memory serves me correctly, I don’t even think I got this one legitimately…I think that the game glitched on me and I passed through the wall on that particular level during the attempt that got me the badge. It’s a tough one, this game.

4) Immaculate Desk – DTD 1.5: It’s just outright hard. If you don’t look for help and if you don’t get any hints/tips, absolute luck be with you when making passes as this game. Thanks to all the different possibilities that you can work with, it’s always hard figuring out which setup is “the best.”

5) Ultimate Monster Slayer – Max Mesiria Chp 2: A lot of it was based on luck, I felt. A miss here and there could either get you killed or could let you live for one more day. The only thing is, though, that when you develop a certain pattern for all the levels you’ve passed—well, it just gets easy.

6) No Orb Left Behind – Orbular: Kind of what other people have said about it…pretty much avoid certain powerups and be careful. Nothing too special.

7) Fish Thankfulness – Dolphin Olympics II: You gotta get lucky at times with this one, especially with starsliding. Even a single missed starslide could be fatal, and getting the badge is practically entirely dependent on whether or not you hit the starslide after Pluto. Other than that, though, it’s pretty much repeating and refining technique.

8) Rhythm Prodigy – Streamline: Don’t get me wrong. I love this game and I love this badge…but it’s just an easy badge. When you get used to the different patterns, all it comes down to is hand-eye coordination. Knowing the music always helps, and a bit of luck in certain portions is indeed a welcoming experience.

9) Super Crazy Guitar Maniac – Super Crazy Guitar Maniac Deluxe 2: Easy. Straight up easy for any sort of badge. Since there’s pretty much no real way to mess up badly here, ultimately…the only deciding factor is whether or not you can read the notes and hit the buttons in accordance to them. I may be biased, though—musician for fourteen years and an ex-DDR region competitor for two. Both of those might’ve helped a lot.

10) Line Flyer – Line Game: Not bad at all. Lots of people complain, but when you get used to the controls and when you get used to the mazes, it’s all a matter of repeating and refing, as are previous games. It just comes a bit more naturally for me with this one.