Recent posts by frostlion on Kongregate

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Topic: General Gaming / Tentacle wars: looking for a challenge?

Hey Proots, nice going on the low cuts!

I’m actually surprised you had so much trouble with level 5. It’s pretty easy really.
Use your starting cell to grab one of the other ones, then reverse the tentacle (let the new cell feed the original) and use the new cell’s second tentacle to grab the last one. Then have both new cells feed into the original, build it up a bit, then send it in for the (slow) kill. Like this

Also, has anyone actually confirmed lvl 17 can be done without cuts. I know it can be done with just one (as shown in the screenshot by m2m4m6m8), but can it actually be done with zero cuts as some people have suggested?

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / 'Another Garden' breeding spreadsheet

Awesome, thank you both. I had not realized you could check seeds you hadn’t seen yet.

The sort of summary Draconi linked was what I was hoping to figure out myself, based on the info about seeds, but it seems even that is already done for me.

is once again amazed at the amount of work that has already gone into unraveling this game.

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / 'Another Garden' breeding spreadsheet

Thanks for the great spreadsheet!

Is there also a list somewhere of what all the seeds do?

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / MEGATHREAD: Battle Arena

Thanks for the confirmation, guess I won’t be taking that skill then.

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / MEGATHREAD: Battle Arena

Does the panic skill (attack speed increase with high rage) allow you to go over 25 speed? Or does it cap there just like most things that boosts attack speed?

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / MEGATHREAD: Battle Arena

Originally posted by wolfman1214:

I’ve got a question, WTF IS THAT PEAR IN THE DEADLANDS?! It appears sometimes, and disappears for no reason when I’m fighting…does it do something?

The only thing I can think of is you might be referring to the poison debuff. Is it a small green droplet shaped pear that appears on the left side of the screen? If so, then that means an enemy poisoned you with an attack and you take ongoing damage while the drop is visible.

If it’s something else, what does it look like and where does it show up?

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / Stadium tokens.

I believe the exact number is 80,200.
(It’s 1+2+3+…+400 = 400 * 401 / 2 = 80,200.)

There’s actually a Dragon tip that says “you need about 80,000 stadium tokens to maximize all your skills” or something to that effect.

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Topic: Anti-Idle: The Game / MEGATHREAD: Battle Arena

Newbie player here. Just started a few days ago and I’m trying to get a bow from the epic pyramid battle that’s better than the blood claw (no I don’t have too many speed boosts on my armor yet, so slow weapons are so-so).

I noticed your damage seems to go down by a massive amount when you enter the pyramid. Is there a special trick to minimizing this effect, like using specific powers, special gear or something? Or do I just keep spamming Power Attack and drinking potions and keep stuck at a few thousand per hit?

Alternatively: I have about a million crafting material and ten million pixels now. I was thinking of using the pixels to boost my attack power, but would it be better to craft a weapon instead? Or would that probably not be better than blood claw/+4 pyramid bow anyway?

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Topic: GemCraft Labyrinth / Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

The best fit I’ve gotten so far is:
#summoned monsters/#base monsters = -0.000936*(mulitplier-1)^3 + 0.729*(multiplier-1)^2 + 2.038*(multiplier-1).

Or a slightly more manageable version that works well until around 20x multiplier:
#summoned monsters/#base monsters = 0.72*(multiplier-1)^2 + 2.06*(multiplier-1)

Clearly, they don’t show the way the math works behind the screen, but they do give fairly accurate results and give you a feel for the way the multiplier works.

Hope that helps.

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Topic: GemCraft Labyrinth / Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

Sorry all for not getting that angering update out. Been having way too much fun playing RIFT these past few weeks.
The one thing people need to know though that I haven’t seen documented yet.

If you go for a high summon multiplier NEVER anger with:
Grade 4
Grade 6
Grade 9
Grade 10
Grade 13
Grade 14

They are currently bugged so they count one of the monsters you summoned as a ‘base’ monster. Especially if you’re playing Giant levels, that can bring your multiplier way down.

I’m still hoping to post the full angering overview, but I’m afraid I don’t have an ETA. I guess it may depend on the next update after 1.10 and if it adresses any balance issues. (That would make this a lot more interesting again).

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] GemCraft Labyrinth.

Originally posted by vesperbot:

I’d like someone to successfully earn a 3.0 summon multiplier on anything but the pylon level :) of course, one has to win the battle. (Also, maybe that someone will also do a shadow clash? If he’s premium, of course.)

That’s not too hard actually. I’ve Gotten up to a 7.23 summon multiplier on normal (giant only) field G10. And that was just gathering data on the summon scaling curve, and playing without 20 extra levels. Add 20 levels to scale things up and really push for the max and 10X multiplier should be doable without too much trouble. Shadow Clash is pretty trivial at that point, because the angering makes you scale quickly, but not the shadow, which will be a pushover when it comes on.

EDIT: And to add a challenge myself: complete the final field with only 100 skill points spent (on whatever settings you like).

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

Originally posted by IanIanIan:

I don’t think that’s it, I constantly get a summon multiplier around 2-2.5 on max stats and I summon around 300 giant monsters a wave. Which is 10x the amount there should be..


#summoned / base # in wave = 0.72 * [Summon Multiplier-1]^2 + 2.06 * [Summon Multiplier-1]

On the left: 300 / 30 = 10.

On the right: 0.72 * [2.5 -1]^2 + 2.06 * [2.5 – 1] = 5.5

So according to the formula, you would only be summoning one monster for every five that come in. Are you perhaps mainly using gems of grade 4, 6, 9 or 10 to summon? Because those are bugged, counting one of each summoned monster as a ‘base’ monster. Also, do you perhaps have Violent Explosion (gem bomb special) activated? Because that messes with your multiplier too.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)


Actually, the only reason you got a multiplier that high is because of a bug (sorry!)
If you’ll look at your score chart, you will see it lists 21661 Monsters killed, and 21660 summoned. That’s not because you killed only 1 monster you didn’t summon yourself, but because you summoned a number of monsters that haven’t arrived yet. However, the game calculates your summon multiplier based on those two numbers, assuming all enemies you summoned were also killed. This works fine in normal games, but is wrong for pylons. In fact, if you summon too many, you get this little gem:

Now note if it’d calculated it out to a difference of exactly 1, I could also have gotten about a 200 time multiplier, for a total score of about 22 Million. Not exactly working as intended…

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

jpo40, you’re pretty close, but not quite right. The ratio is actually based on (#summoned / base #in whole level), not just in that particular wave.
Try this simple trick to see: pick a level with both a swarm wave and a giant wave. (I used L13 to try). Anger the swarm. Next time around, anger the giant wave for the same amount. Your score will be the same.

The best (reverse) formula I have so far is:
#summoned / base # in wave = 0.72 * [Summon Multiplier-1]^2 + 2.06 * [Summon Multiplier-1]
which fits pretty well, but doesn’t make too much sense.

Also, you mentioned how Violent Explosions skill shows only a fraction of the monsters summoned as actually summoned, but in fact, that happens even without the skill! For example, every time you use a grade 4 gem, one out of the 19 monsters summoned is counted as a non-summoned monster, bringing down your ratio. But then for a grade 5 gem, all 25 monsters are counted as summoned again…

I’m hoping to find out the exact details and post them in the numbercraft thread at some point, but so far, angering doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

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Topic: GemCraft Labyrinth / Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

PART 2: Gem Scaling

I’ll keep it a bit more brief this time and stick to the graphs.
I took a lime gem, with no upgrades in gem-related abilities, except for maxing out the special mastery (because it is essential for scaling).
This is how everything scales:

From the speed and damage, we get the base DPS. If we factor in the # chains, we get the real DPS:

If we want to see how the gem scales though, we need to know how cost effective it is. In other words, how high is the DPS per point of mana spent? If that goes down, it’s more mana efficient to have a lot of small gems, if it goes up, one super-gem is the way to go for maximum damage output. So let’s look at the base DPS per mana first, we get:

So from this it looks like lots of small gems are the way to go. After all, the base DPS goes down as the gem grade goes up.
But wait, the special also grows pretty quickly, so looking at the real DPS per mana might give us a different image. Let’s see, shall we:

And that graph is the closest you can get to a pure gem ‘effectiveness rating’. As you see, the growth is a little tricky there at the start, and in fact if you have towers already on the map, you’re better off with multiple lower grade gems until about grade 4. After that though, the gem power starts rising pretty quickly. Eventually, you roughly double your effectiveness every three gem grades. Remember, I’m not talking about damage here, I’m talking about damage per point of mana spent.

So the answer to this is pretty clear: if you have a ‘bland’ gem, like green for poison, you’re better off sticking with a bunch of low grade gems. If you have a gem with a special that scales well though (like lime or yellow), high grade gems win out almost from the start, and by grade 6, there’s no contest.

Finally, for those who were not convinced yet that Yellow/Lime dual gemming was broken, here is the LY dual gem effectiveness graph, with all non-premium skills boosted (including 66 points for +100% gem damage):

And yes, that fit does say at high levels the effectiveness triples every two grades…

NEXT UP: Angering. What gem grade do I want to anger with to maximize my mana gain? How is my angering score multiplier determined? And how do monster armor and HP scale up?

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Topic: GemCraft Labyrinth / The Gemcraft Labyrinth Help Thread

Originally posted by revlis94:

Is there some kind of minimum grade required for gems of different colours to be able to be combined?

Revlis, it looks like a bug was introduced with the new patch where if you start a new profile, you can’t combine multicolor gems. You loose the mana and the graphics of the original gems disappear, but the combination doesn’t happen and you’re stuck with the two old gems that only appear again after you move them around (you still see the mouseover text the whole time). At least that’s what I got with the latest flash player and running it in firefox or chrome (on both premium and normal)

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Topic: GemCraft Labyrinth / Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

Actually vesperbot,

You can’t have a gem in a tower at higher levels, unless you’re really careful. After all, with full-screen range, if it has even a moment where there are no mobs on screen, it would instantly charge the pylon and win the game for you.

And einfach, yeah, GCL is not worth theorycrafting too much right now, but I’m expecting Peter to re-balance at some point and it’s nice to have a baseline then.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] GemCraft Labyrinth.


You don’t want to make sheets of grade 12s with your mana pool size! You want to pick a good grade 15 and use the hotkey ‘d’ to copy it instantly. If your mana pool is/gets large enough, start copying grade 16s, then 17s instead.

However, don’t hover over a gem you want to copy unless you have to, it slows your machine down even more.

Also, be sure to keep a ‘seed’ of the right level, so you don’t have to start back with grade 12s again when you’ve combined all your gems.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

Hey Arcology,

Sorry about the G20 confusion, that’s actually my bad. I did a test to see how the shrines scaled at some point, but forgot to check what skills I had spent points in. Turns out I had a few in the shrine mastery skill when I found you needed a G20 to do 100% HP reduction. Without the skill, it actually takes a G26 gem to do it… a lot less broken.

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Topic: GemCraft Labyrinth / Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

Since actually playing the game has become a bit too easy until things get patched up, I decided to get started on running through some of the numbers for GCL. Because it’s easier to manage, I’ll focus on pure gems for the moment. I’ll mainly be looking at scaling, in particular: what powers get broken and what powers get useless past about grade 12?

For this first post, I’m taking a look at the effectiveness of specials for gems. Basically all you need to know is in the graph below

About this graph
- This graph uses a log(2) scale for the vertical axis. This means every time you go up one step, the power of the special doubles. For example, the orange power at grade 20 is about 100 times higher than the red one.
- Purple and yellow look a bit weird because they almost overlap in terms of strength. Looking at either line will give you a feel for the other though.
- If pictures give you a headache, the numbers are included below.

About the results
What does this actually tell us about the power of our gem types? Let’s look at them one by one:

lime: becomes insanely powerful at higher levels. Your damage potential is actually dozens of times higher as long as there are multiple enemies to hit. And we’re not even talking about double gems here.

yellow: The second sick gem. Once again, your damage potential is dozens of times higher, as long as you have big beefy targets, instead of lots of swarming monsters that die in one hit regardless. When you make a dual gem with lime, you have a gem that hits dozens of targets for dozens of times base damage, giving hundred of times the damage output of a base gem: you are now a God!

orange: looks really fancy as the top contender in the graph, but looks can be deceiving. For remember: the cost of a higher grade gem almost doubles every grade. So for orange to keep up, it would have to go up a factor of two (one line in the graph) per grade. However, it only averages about a doubling in mana drain for every two grades.
That doesn’t make it useless though, for there are two extra factors to consider. First, your gems firing speed increases. More firing speed means more hits per second, means more mana drained per second. Second, your mana pool will be getting larger, so your mana gain multiplier will go up too.

So what we want to look at is: take the cost of building a tower (let’s say 200 mana on average) and add the cost of your gem. That’s the amount you need to spend to get your gem set up.
Then you take the mana gain per hit and multiply it by the firing speed: this is your mana gained per second.
Compare the two, and you’ll see how fast you need to increases your mana gain multiplier to keep the gem scaling well.

If we do all this, we get the following base effectiveness (shown in both a linear and a log graph):

formula used: 60 * [mana gain per hit] * [firing speed] / {[gem cost] + 200}
Note: I didn’t actually have the firing speed for orange on hand, so I cheated and used the one for yellow gems. A fair approximation because yellow is around 10% faster, but it scales roughly the same.

So what we see is, to keep this gem gaining the same amount of mana per minute, you need to double the mana pool multiplier going from grade 4-8, double it again by grade 12 (to 4X), get it to 8X by grade 15 and to 16X by grade 18.

Overall, an orange gem scales acceptably, but it won’t make you rich without some serious investment in mana pool (and if you can invest in that, what do you need the gem for?)
It doesn’t get really interesting until you throw it in a trap combined with a lime gem and get a chance to multiply your mana gain by the number of chains as well!

red: this is one of the weirdest scaling gems. It’s sucky early on, because your kill count is still a lot lower than the base damage of the gem (it starts at 0 after all). But after a few waves, when you’ve racked up maybe 100-200 kills, it really starts adding up. By end game though, it is a useless piece of junk.

Let me explain that last one: As you can see in the graph, the base multiplier scales fairly poorly. Starting at 36% it isn’t doubled to 72% until grade 9 and you’ll have to wait until grade 14 to hit 3X the multiplier you started with (110%).
You’ll be racking up more kills though, doesn’t that mean the gem keeps getting stronger and stronger? Sure it will, but not fast enough.
If monsters kept giving the same amount of mana per kill, that meant by the time you had collected double the mana (needed to upgrade your gem one rank), you’d also have doubled your kill count. So every time you upgraded your gem, you’d have doubled your damage bonus too. A pretty sweet deal. In that case the increasing damage multiplier would just be icing on the cake.
However, the mana you get per kill does go up, by a lot! Not only does the base mana you get per monster you kill increase (easily by a factor of 10 throughout longer levels), but so does your mana pool multiplier. Pretty soon you’ll be raking in dozens of times as much mana per kill, but still only be getting a percentage of 1 damage added to your total. That’s where the increased special multiplier should kick in to keep the gem worthwhile, but it doesn’t. At that point, the red gem starts to suck.

Now don’t get me wrong, this gem can serve you well easily into grade 10 – even grade 12 when boosted in a trap – but you’ll see it become useless soon after that.

Purple: This gem scales fairly well, as you can see in the graph. The interesting part though is how fast the armor decreases as a function of your damage per hit. If you do twice as much damage with each hit, the armor had better go down twice as fast to keep things worthwhile as well. This gives us the purple effectiveness:

formula used: 60 * [armor drain per hit] * [firing speed] / [damage per hit]
Note: once again, I cheated and used my yellow data for both firing speed and damage per hit.

As you can see, purple scales well. With a good base scaling and higher firing speeds to stack up the armor drain, you actually cut through armor a bit faster compared to your damage as you level up.
In other words, purple would be a good choice if armor went up as fast as gem damage. It doesn’t though. Armor scaling is pathetic in the game right now, not even going over 100 until your gem is doing thousands of damage easily. That doesn’t just means you’ll cut through the armor with a single hit, it also means cutting through the armor will never give you a boost of more than a few % of base damage at most.
The purple mechanic is solid, but monster armor scaling is broken at higher levels to the point of making it useless.

Blue: Peter has told us slowing actually works as speed = 100% / (100% + slowing %). Plugging this in gives:

The problem is it’s hard to measure how you scale this, but the basic idea is: slowing doesn’t become ‘less useful’ as monsters get tougher, so an increase in slow % is an increase in effectiveness. In that sense, a higher grade slowing gem is more worthwhile than a lower grade one. How good it is compared to others though, depends completely on your style and strategy.

Cyan: Cyan works different from slowing. Every time it hits an enemy, they have a chance of being stunned (for 3 seconds). However, they also have an ever increasing ‘stun immunity’, going up by a random amount ranging from around 5% to 11% each stun, for an average of about 8%. Especially at higher grades, your attack rate is so high you can expect to have a guaranteed stun at some point even with a fairly small chance to stun. That means we can calculate the expected time a monster can be stunned by your gem at each level, overestimating it a bit for lower levels, but becoming pretty accurate at higher levels.

formula used: {3 * [stun %] / 0.08} – 10/[gem speed]
Note: the last term you subtract is an approximation of the lower level tendency to not get the max stun values. Because of their low firing speed, they don’t get enough hits in for guaranteed stun on low stun chances per hit.

Those times go pretty high. Does it actually work like that? Oh yes

Add to this the fact you can spread the stun to multiple targets, as long as you get back to each one every 3 seconds, and you have a pretty sweet alternative to blue gems. Once again, usefulness of slow/stun is situational, but if you have to pick, blue is not the only option.

Green: Green looks pretty underwhelming in terms of scaling, and it is. The percentage of base damage you do over 5 seconds stays pretty much the same (around 80%) regardless of level. Now it can be argued with higher firing speeds and larger range, you can apply it to more targets. This is actually not as silly as it sounds. With the ‘random’ targeting option, you can actually apply the poison to lots of targets.
Sound good? By grade 6, you’re already making 33.5 attacks in 5 seconds. Factor in the 80% and you need to have 42 targets poisoned at all times for the poison damage to break even with the normal gem damage. By grade 12, you’re looking at over 100 targets to break even.

Now putting it in a trap seems like a good option, with it being one of the specials that doesn’t become less useful from reduced base damage like yellow and lime do. But at that point your target pool goes way down, with your tiny range, meaning a lot less mobs can stay poisoned. So while this may work at lower levels – when your range and firing speed are too low to get lots of targets poisoned anyway, it really drops off in effectiveness at higher grades.

Overall, green can be a decent starter in a trap, and doesn’t even totally suck outside one for a while, but it can’t hold up at higher levels.

NEXT UP: Gem scaling. Do I want one grade 9 gem, or eight grade 6s?

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

To quote FlareAndrew: “Gotta be kidding me…”

Got a lot of numbers out of that last 1337 run btw, including special-scaling and supergemming a grade 14 as vesperbot suggested. Will see if I get a chance to post them all today or tomorrow.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

vesperbot, to adress some of your points:

- Deadly traps indeed seems just bugged. 30% increased damage should be going from 20% (-80%), to 26% (-74%), I assume that will be fixed.

- My killer starting strategy is getting a high wild gem and simply trashing it at the start for the 70%(or 85%) of the mana, then building with that. At higher wild gem levels, it can net you as much as 6000 mana, enough to start you off with a grade 6 gem and plenty to spare.

- I’ll see if I have time later to check the supergemming at higher levels. By that time though, you’ll probably want to keep pumping that main gem, because the combination of chain hits, multiple damage crits, increased speed and increased base damage really spikes. Any leftover mana you can dump in lower level gems in adjacent amps.

- The reason orange is viable is because it chains more as the chain hit increases. In GC0 it was capped at 6 targets, here you can get mana from dozens of targets at a time. The mana steal doesn’t increase through yellow crit damage though, it’s straight up mana per hit, times number of targets hit through chains. (well, it may be off by a few percent, didn’t check that carefully, but no more than that).

And congratulations Hyppy, you just won the game… three days after release :-P

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

Just in case my last post wasn’t clear (I can imagine with the formatting being messed up): I did actually break the game. I didn’t even need the ‘reduce to 1hp’. My YOL-gem was enough to get me to the max HP cap of 3.333 billion I mentioned earlier. I actually quit the game when I saw there were over 512 endurance waves by taking out my gem and focing the monsters to kill themselves (my mana multiplier was 130x by that point…)

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

For anyone having trouble with the lay-out in the above post:
- A high level (grade 22+) YOL gem in a trap is instant win. You do literally hundreds of millions of damage and get millions of mana for each attack.
- A grade 20 or higher gem when used in a shrine reduces monster HP by more than 100%, meaning their HP is reduced to 1. So basically killing any mobs instantly regardless of HP.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

To answer your question, we get this: !! The mana gain caries over through the chain hit, so your maximum mana gets filled with one hit. Basically, I've won the game at this point I'm afraid... As for shrine stats, from grade 10 up, using bolts as reference (lightning is comparable) and without shrine upgrades: *[Gem grade]: monster HP reduction; number of bolts; damage per bolt* G10: -45 percent 126X 14K-29K G11: -51 percent 142X 24K-45K G12: -56 percent 157X 38K-82K G13: -61 percent 173X 63K-136K G14: -67 percent 188X 102K-226K G15: -72 percent 204X 163K-378K G16: -78 percent 220X 293K-775K G17: -84 percent 237X 448K-1.29M G18: -89 percent 253X 700K-2.13M G19: -95 percent 269X 1.10M-3.51M G20: -101 percent 286X 1.73M-5.78M Now that last one is where it gets interesting: does this mean insta-death to any enemy of any level? Pretty much, yes! They are reduced to 1 hitpoint. So if you weren't god yet, you are with this trick. I'm guessing Peter will be pushing through some patches soon enough :-) EDIT: I hope the layout isn't messed up for everyone else...