Topic: Game Programming / keyboard

Originally posted by I_love_you_lots:

Ahh wait, onAddToStage needs to be a public function, you have it here as just a function. Try making it public.

I myself always make such listener function private, and it works fine. I don’t think this is the problem.

Topic: Forum Games / 1 or 2 or so a day... Trivia. (Anyone can join at any time)

Originally posted by hamuka:

Originally posted by betterplayer:

Adeeb gets 30 pts.

Which question did he get correctly? And why’d I get no points?

I want to know this as well. I affirm that hamuka’s answer (12) is correct.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

I still want to know what walford expected Pulsaris to do.

After all, he has to either argue that Pulsaris should’ve let him survive because he claimed that he was going to switch with somebody after the round had ended and the results had been posted, or argue that Pulsaris shouldn’t have ended the day at the deadline.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Originally posted by walfordking:

Don’t get me started Vara.

Pulsaris is [f-bomb] late in his [f-bomb] deadline and players can’t be [f-bomb] late. [F-BOMB] totally Unfair!

Please get yourself started already.
I am highly curious about how Pulsaris should’ve handled this case according to you.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Originally posted by walfordking:

Oh dear Pulsaris. Hard luck for putting the most active person out in your game.

> Most active person;
> Failed the previous trial due to not sending in a choice before the deadline.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Alright, it seems that we do not have any duplicate planets. We do have a missing planet though; where did Mars go all of a sudden? And… pluto isn’t a planet, is it?

Mars here thinks he’s a genius. In this thread, he posts SHA256[pluto] and to the host he whispers SHA256[pluto]. That’s right: he whispered a hash, not his original string. He also did not add any random characters to his planet, so I used a dictionary attack.

As such, I have decided that I will not tell Mars the planets he needs, because if you wish to profit from this scheme, you have to collaborate with it. Those who do not collaborate need not expect our aid; if everyone were to claim Pluto, this whole plot wouldn’t help us at all.
About the protocol: I’d tell you the planets you need according to the planet you claim to be; Pluto doesn’t need anything.
(Besides, weeding these bad apples out should help everyone during the following challenges.)

If Mars still wants to know planets, he may appeal to Neptune (who knows everyone’s planets too), or figure them out the traditional way.

Everyone except Mars has received the roles they need through whispers.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

I’d like to clarify that when I mentioned “host” in my previous post, I meant somebody specifically assigned for that protocol, not the host of this game himself. Pulsaris has no need to collaborate with this plot. I am the “host” of this scheme myself.

Despite having posted their hashes in this thread already, undeadcupcake and behemoth have not sent me their original strings yet.

Edit: received the original string from behemoth; still waiting for undeadcupcake.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Neptune is the only difficult part of this trial. I’m not sure if he can kill, but so far, all the planets that are killable are also protectable. I presume that he cannot kill anyone provided everyone else completes their tasks.

I suggest that everyone’s role gets published, so everyone can complete their task and everyone protectable gets protected. Some planets like Jupiter and Saturn do not have any risk by publishing who they are, but Mercury, Venus and possibly Neptune may want to be slightly more careful. As such, I’m setting up a complicated protocol again.

Note: you can use this to create SHA-256 hashes. SHA-256 is a cryptographic hash function which is as of today resistant against both preimage and collision attacks.

Edit: just for clarification, the “host” is a specific person assigned only for this protocol, not the host of the game (Pulsaris).

The protocol:

First, take your planet’s name and add some random stuff to it. For example, if your planet is “Pluto”, design something like Pluto_0ae4363727fbeeae60b7e3923, then calculate the SHA-256 hash of it. If you do not make the random part long enough, your hash can be cracked by brute force. There are no disadvantages to having a longer random part (withing reason; don’t add a billion characters to it.)

Post your hash in this thread, and whisper your original string to the host. For example, you post 3df3c7d1ea48db4dda41ad800d4831eb4d97b726ed294961db63c782dd4335be in this thread and you whisper Pluto_0ae4363727fbeeae60b7e3923 to the host. The host will check that what you posted in this thread is indeed the hash of what you sent to the host.

When the host has received everyone’s planets, he makes sure that no planet has been sent in twice. Then he sends to everyone the planets that they need to know to survive, eg. Jupiter gets to know who Mars is. The host also send them the full string he received (like Jupiter_4e2e6a8a0b01cada9d5ed3dd) Neptune gets to know all planets.

If the same planet has been received twice, the the host will:
(1) Tell only one of the two senders the planet(s) they need to know;
(2) Will not tell either sender who’s the one who sent in the same planet as him;
(3) Tell everyone who needed that either the duplicate or missing planet, both players who sent in the same planet;
(4) Publicly announce the name of the planet that got sent in twice, as well as the name of the planed nobody sent in.

Questions:

Q: Can’t we trace back what your planet is from your hash?
A: No, because of the random part. If the random part is sufficiently long, it will become infeasible to brute-force the hash.

Q: How do we know that the host speaks the truth when he tells me that person Y has role X?
A: These hashes function like signatures. Take the long string the host sent you and hash it. You should get the same hash as person X posted in the thread. The host cannot lie because he doesn’t have any other strings with a different planet that hash to the same.

Q: Why would is send in my true planet?
A: Because it’s logically the best option. You don’t have anything to lose by doing so. For starters, you’ll get to know the planets you don’t need to know, without knowing the planets you do need. Even if you mimic a planet which needs to know the same planets as you do, then you will only have a 50% chance of getting to know what you need and 50% chance of not being told anything, whereas if you’d tell the truth, you’d get to know the information you need for sure. Mercury and Venus do not need to worry about getting killed by mars, because if everyone wins, they’ll be protected anyway.

Q: How do I know the host isn’t simply telling everyone that my planet got sent in twice and I am the unlucky one?
A: Because he needs to publicly name all planets that were sent in twice. If he tells you that your planet was a duplicate without posting in the thread that planet X was sent in duplicate, then he lies. He cannot simply tell that all planets are duplicate. He also needs to conjure a “missing planet” from somewhere when claiming another planet is duplicate.

Q: Why not post our planets publicly in this thread already?
A: Somebody could be like “Hey, this guy has the planet I need. Why would I post my own planet now?”

Q: What if the host would be like “Alright, now I know everyone’s planets. Now I won’t tell anyone the planets they need so I’m the only survivor mwhuahahah!”
A: We will do this whole thing over again with a different host. We will figure out what planet the host had because his planet is the planet that nobody else had.

Q: Your protocol was broken in Crossing LIIIes. Why should we trust you?
A: My protocol wasn’t broken in Crossing LIIIes, the weakness were the players who ignored my protocol and conjured up their own. You can read the entire protocol here; feel free to search for weaknesses yourself.

So who is the host then? I am declaring myself as host because:
(1) I do entirely understand how this protocol works and why certain steps taken were necessary for security. I can ensure that this whole process goes smoothly without the host messing anything up;
(2) This protocol, as you can see above in the questions, was designed to be host-proof; the host can’t sabotage things without everyone knowing the host sabotages things;
(3) Blandly saying who becomes the host avoids this whole discussion which may lead to “group A wants X and group B wants Y”; we need clarity about who’s the host;
(4) Whoever the host is, it’s imperative that the host publishes his own hash before receiving text from other players. If I were to declare “person X is host”, then players could be sending him info before he publishes his own has, and waiting for person X to post his own has before anyone send him anything would cause delay of up to one day.

Alright, my hash is: b962908b3637ead9b3f22bd734fa3284d342a3f19bc40c8f60b246b2ec28b057

You may want to save the hashes that users are posting somewhere on your computer, so you can be sure that they didn’t edit their hash.

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Originally posted by Pulsaris:

I made Jask to give you all redemption by reverse psychology. Thank me. [/shameless]

Thanks.

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Well, it looks like no neutral third party will be found in time, nor do we have much clues about who has which role, so I’m RNG’ing some names.

Angels, send in puzzledan as target.
Demons, send in Vara as target.

Yes, the RNG did happen choose my name.
Yes, I am an angel.
You demons do not have any excuse to fail your main task.

Puzzledan was picked by the RNG too, so there’s no credibility to puzzledan being a demon, but since it looks like nobody knows anything and you need to have tree angels sending in the same name, use that name if you’ve got no better idea. You’ll have a bigger chance at multiple angels sending in that name than you’d have when you RNG somebody yourself.

20 hours left.

Topic: Forum Games / Master FGF Thread

Shattered Soul has ended; victory goes to efar.

Topic: Forum Games / [Mafia] Shattered Soul (Finished)

Unresolved issues and philosophical thoughts

Like I already said, this game is a sequel to Fate of Herrevald; it will probably answer your question if you were wondering about the history of Lycias.

The final day is out of pace with the other days. So far, we’ve only had deaths which were caused by “accidents”, provoked by the emotions of people. On the final day, efar generated negative emotions which influenced the aura badly, and then the aura influenced himself, augmenting these emotions. These piled up much enough to make him kill somebody.

Can this be classified as an “accident” too? The same thing happened during the other death: people were killed due emotions. The emotions on the last day must’ve been stronger than on the earlier days. However, would efar have killed anyone in a normal environment without this aura? If he wouldn’t, would that mean that efar is a murderer or a peon of fate?

Likewise, the victims on the previous day were killed by people’s emotions. Would that mean that they are responsible for that victim’s death? Can having certain thoughs be a crime? How about conspiring a crime and getting arrested before actually committing it? If a bully bullies somebody for a long time, and then that person commits suicide, is the bully (morally) responsible for that person’t death?

Two other unresolved issues are slightly more related to religion. It is said by “ancient scriptures” that the situation is caused by the presence of soul fragments (the story was written with that as axiom.) However, you may wonder about the implications of such a thing. According to the bible, god is able to forgive anyone, even at the latest moment. However, if a soul gets destroyed by magic, how can it still be forgiven by god? Does this violate god’s power? Can be argued “if it doesn’t exist, it doesn’t matter”? A soul is supposed to be sacred, and even god never destroys one. Can magic possibly be able to do so?

Lastly, afterlife: the only stage about which I’ve written is limbo*. Adena seems to know a lot about what is happening on earth, more than she’s supposed to know. You may wonder how she figured out the situation and some statistics. Did she collect information through others she met in limbo? Was she told things by divine messengers (like angels)? Did she just guess things ? She is a witch, so could she have used magic to figure out the situation in the real world? Are limbo and earth close enough to each other that magic can transcend their dimensions, or would such a thing be impossible?

*I also figured out that I don’t have a clue what my reaction would be if I were to wake up in limbo.

Everyone whose afterlife was described so far ended up in limbo. If you were the judge (god?) who decides who goes to what afterlife (heaven, limbo, hell), to which one would you send them and the others? (There’s no consensus on whether heaven, hell and limbo exists or not. Decide for yourself which exist.)

Note: this post does not express my opinion.

You do not need to answer the questions asked above, but you can think about them (if you like thinking / philosophy). The questions are subjective; you may even disagree with certain assumptions or logic used. If you feel like it, you can discuss them in this thread.

The game has ended now, so the rules “Those who are dead do not post in this thread or reveal confidential information until the game has ended.” and “If you have not signed up for this game, you do not post in this this thread while the game is going on.” does no longer apply.

Also, quadruple post.

Topic: Forum Games / [Mafia] Shattered Soul (Finished)

End of game

Darkness has befallen the town of Lycias, both in literal and figurative sense. It is no accident this time; everyone is dead.

efar was the first one to break down. Everyone was dying here, he lost his beloved brother, and he himself would die too. This could not be a coincidence. Somebody had to be managing these mysterious death and disappearances. Devourer359 – he had been the one who did not show up his face ofted! He did not seem to care much! He must have been the one killing others because he wanted to have this town for himself!

Efar took his gun, found devourer359, and shot him down without much drama. Then he stood there, wondering what he just did.

AdeebNafees and doctorew heard the gunshot and came to look what was happening. They did not expect that a man had been shot down, so it took them a second to process the image of efar holding a gun in his hand and a bleeding devourer349 lying on the floor. “Efar – did you…?”

AdeebNafees and doctorew drew their own guns for self defense. Efar concluded that they wanted to kill him, so he shot both of them down too before they could shoot back.

Then things clashed down on efar. What had he just done? He had just killed everyone on a whim. He tried to get medical supplies from the doctor’s tent, but he was too late to save anyone. A little later, he killed himself.

The game has ended. Victory goes efar, a corrupted archeologist.

Roles:

• T6salt → efar: corrupted archeologist; [WINNER]
• DragonArcherZ: corrupted archeologist;
• CowFriend: doctor;
• Jaskaran2000 → Hyped: doctor;
• Woon1957 → Behemoth542: doctor;
• AdeebNafees: common archeologist;
• Bluji → adv0catus → Jaskaran2000: common archeologist;
• devourer359: common archeologist;
• SilverEvil: common archeologist;
• TwistedCakez → doctorew: common archeologist;

The case of CowFriend:
CowFriend, a doctor, decided to protect Behemoth542 during night 1. Behemoth542 was targeted by the mafia that night, but was still killed because Behemoth542 was a doctor himself too, and doctors are unprotectable. There wasn’t any rule nor any private command that prevented CowFriend from saying this.

Topic: Forum Games / [Mafia] Shattered Soul (Finished)

End-of-day announcement

The final day (day 4) will end in about 24 hours.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Originally posted by vixenated:

Team 1 ready to send your PMs?

I am moving to the team 1 which was proposed by Jimbo14 because we cannot rely on overfrost joining our previous team. I assume that’s what you mean with “team 1”.

Originally posted by Jimbo14:

Team 1
Vixenated, Vara, walfordking, t6salt, coolo, and Jimbo14

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Originally posted by vixenated:

Six people, alright:

Myself, Vara, Jimbo, walfordking, overfrost, and coolo.

Any of you chosen ones disagree?

I find this list to be acceptable.

Topic: Forum Games / [Mafia] Shattered Soul (Finished)

The killing mechanism clarified*:
*According to ancient scriptures.

A long time ago, some witch with the name “Eseni” died with a rather strange death, which is aid to have shattered her soul. These fragments are still floating around here.

Whenever a soul feels a strong emotion, this is sensed by those fragments, which will carry over to the fragments. Heavier emotions, or more souls with the same emotion will influence them more. These fragments spreading will carry this feeling over the closeby area. It kind of generates a system comparable to aura.

This aura will likewise influence the are too. They may inject these emotions into other souls (like democracy) or animals. It may modify the area slightly, wind and clouds being the easiest according to the desire of these emotions, or budging generally random outcomes in the favor of these emotions.

In this case, the archeologists desired privacy and wanted the others gone. When too many had focused upon wanting one particular human gone, the aura wanted this person gone too. The aura caused them to die by what might seem like accidents.

The game is not dead yet. (This is not an April Fools’ joke.)
I actually doubt that this bump will stir up activity since no activity happened even after everyone was modprodded, but anyway: you’ve got about two real-life days left for this day.

Topic: Forum Games / [Post-game discussion] The Cave: A PSG

Sign-up.

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Originally posted by BCLEGENDS:

@Vara: I’m sure your logic is completely sound, but you’ll notice that in practice, the undead survival rate is only 25%, down from predicted of 88%, whereas human survival rate is at 40%, up from predicted of 8% to the point that practical HSR is 3/5ths higher than practical USR. Presumably, this is because actually, the undead aren’t particularly inclined to work with each other to any greater extent than with the humans, since more people gone = higher chance of winning. I, uh… well, I suppose there’s no way I can word any of that without sounding insulting, so sorry if I do sound like I’m being condescending or anything.

(You do not sound like you’re insulting.)

It is indeed pretty amazing how many undead managed not to complete their main task. The reason the humans survived it because those undead did not complete their main task.

I’m not sure why so many undead failed. The most probable thing is that the undead are telling everyone other that they’re human, and the humans are telling everyone they’re undead. Then the undead must’ve been naive enough to believe these tales. However, none of the undead needed anyone’s cooperation to get that 88% victory chance.
Either that, or they’ve had really bad luck. They didn’t even die from being assassinated (12%) but from not accomplishing their main task (7%).

They could’ve all avoided this risk if they had simply ignored what others said and sent in a random list. Better odds than rock-paper-scissors.

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Seems like I need to commence a rant.

First of all, why do the undead have absolutely no obligation to keep their identity secret from humans? If a human leaks his human identity once, he’s dead for pretty much sure. An undead could’ve told every single player in the game that he’s an undead and we wouldn’t be able to do anything against him. Also, the tasks are ridiculously easy to gamble. What would happen if an undead would not go around figuring out anyone’s identity and simply send in a list of random people? His success chance would’ve been 13 at 14[1]! It’s a pretty amazing feat how many undead have managed to die here. Congratulations.
The chance of a human guessing two or more humans would be 1 at 2[2].

The objectives were unknown, so there was pretty much no way we could reliably pretend to be undead. We didn’t have a clue how the undead was supposed to act. This is not reverse psychology, this is just a gamble of “what could the undead’s objectives be?” if you want to have any chance of convincing others that you’re undead.

Doing a computer-generated test[3] simulating this game with everyone sending in random lists, the survival chance of a human is 7% and the survival chance of an undead is 88%; this is using even weaker rules biased in favor of the humans (if a human finds two other humans, an undead will die for sure without chance of killing an undead who didn’t accomplish his main task, and I didn’t take account for the undead’s side objective.)

So, would human be able to fix this with reverse psychology? Nope. As long as the undead would take random users (which would be quite wise), only 7% of the human population would survive. The humans can’t do anything against this. It may be nice for them that they found two other humans, but who cares about that if they can’t complete their main task anyway?

[1] ((5 ncr 2)(3 ncr 2)+(5 ncr 3)(3 ncr 1)+(5 ncr 4)(3 ncr 0))/(8 ncr 4)
[2] ((4 ncr 2)(4 ncr 1)+(4 ncr 3)(4 ncr 0))/(8 ncr 3) (Used Wolfram|Alpha to calculate.)
[3] (Used Firefox’ scratchpad to run.)

var numHuman = 0, numUndead = 0;
var t;
var human, undead, i, l, list, tList, tot;

for(t=0;t<100000;t++) {
    human = [true,true,true,true,true];
    undead = [true,true,true,true];
    for(i=0;i<undead.length;i++) {
        list = [];
        tList = [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8];
        tList.splice(5+i, 1);
        tot = 0;
        for(l=0;l<4;l++) {
            list.push(tList.splice(Math.floor(tList.length*Math.random()), 1)[0]);
        }
        for(l=0;l<list.length;l++) {
            if(list[l] < 5) tot++;
        }
        if(tot >= 2) {
            for(l=0;l<list.length;l++) {
                if(list[l] < 5) {
                    human[list[l]] = false;
                }
            }
        } else {
            undead[i] = false;
        }
    }
    
    for(i=0;i<human.length;i++) {
        if(!human[i]) continue;
        if(Math.random() < 0.5) {
            for(l=0;l<undead.length;l++) {
                if(undead[l]) {
                    undead[l] = false;
                    break;
                }
            }
        }
    }
    
    for(i=0;i<human.length;i++) if(human[i])  numHuman++;
    for(i=0;i<undead.length;i++) if(undead[i])  numUndead++;
}

"Human: "+Math.round(numHuman/5000)+"%\nUndead: "+Math.round(numUndead/4000)+"%";

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Question: when you mentioned “two of them should be humans”, were it supposed to be exactly two, or at least two?

Topic: Forum Games / General Thread

Originally posted by Blood_Shadow:

Can anyone else see and edit their ForumMute lists? The people in my mute list are still muted; I just can’t see the list itself.

This was a problem caused by the new Kongregate layout; various elements got renamed due to which the script could no longer find where the UI was supposed to be placed. This issue should be fixed in version 1.1.0.

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Originally posted by Pulsaris:

By the way, anyone thinks that helltank was OP in the last round?

I do agree with this.

First of all, there’s absolutely no way to distinguish helltank from a normal player: he knows a word, that word is valid. This was pretty much a trap for everyone who was unfortunate enough to have the word rainbow: they’ve got two partners, but only one of them is right with no way to know which one they need or even being aware that there’s a fake one out there. They’re practically sentenced to a death chance of at least 50% for no reason whatsoever. It is a rather unfair disadvantage.

Second, reaper does not need to be carefully protecting his word to avoid the assassination. He could’ve simply come to this thread, publicly post “My word is rainbow.” in efar-style, and survive. Nobody would be suspicious of him, and the two real rainbow bros would think that they’ve found their partner and die. This requires no skill, reverse-psychology or anything else. All he needs is to come to the thread before the two rainbow bros have settled on each other

Topic: Forum Games / General Thread

Originally posted by undeadcupcake3:

Fuck my life.

Okay, so i’m playing Minecraft, when the 1.5 update comes out, and for some reason, i cant download it. So i delete the whole game, get a new one, only to find out that it was a problem with my INTERNET. So, i log back on, new update and all, when…
All my worlds are gone.
God damnit.

Then again, i suppose that if i’m on Kong, ranting about how my Minecraft failed miserably, i suppose i don’t even have a life to fuck. So fuck my life computer.

Maybe the saves are still in your recycle bin? Minecraft saves games in %APPDATA%\.minecraft\saves.

Topic: Forum Games / [Psychological Strategy] Crossing LIIIes [Post-Game Discussion]

Originally posted by walfordking:

That was unfair because when did Dj post during that task.

He posted here:

Originally posted by djrockstar:

Originally posted by efar:

Originally posted by djrockstar:

Originally posted by efar:

my hash starts with 8fc

Interesting, are the next three ed0?

yes, 8fced00b6ce281456d69daef5f2b33eaf1a4a29b5923ebe5f1f2c54f5886c7a3

Well, that was surprisingly easy :)