Recent posts by paradoxymoron on Kongregate

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

Paladin2K: I don’t think you’re appreciating the long and storied history of democracy. The form you enjoy now was a long, long time coming. Different models of governance take time. They also take education and providing a small working model is an effective way to education and inform others. Everything not tried before is at a trial stage. I’m not really concerned whether or not people accept anarchy. I’d be happy as long as they question their government and the current system that we’re in. Like with pmr0078 wondering how to make it better rather than being satisfied with the status quo.

Jabor – Every community eventually collapses. But a Jewish kibbutz is a good example of some.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Can someone explain how "bailouts" work?

Are we counting Mexico? The second richest man in the world (Carlos Slim Helu) is from Mexico. Four of the top 10 are from India. Africa is a unique situation that will not see any drastic change due to any imaginable economic policy; the problems run far deeper than that. So all in all, your argument doesn’t really pan out.

I wasn’t counting Mexico, no. I really meant Americans but figured I should include Canadians as well, just to be fair.

There are rich people in every country. I don’t see what that proves. He said that “[they] can go on with their high quality of living”. I’m pointing out that this “high quality of living” is fairly restricted. What part of that do you disagree with?

People without jobs suffer.

In this system, yes. Otherwise, people without food, shelter and purpose suffer. That doesn’t equal a job. The bailouts show that it’s more important to support a sunset company (GM) than to use the money to pay American workers to feed foreign bellies. Remember, people without FOOD suffer.

The good old “the rich are plotting” theme.

I never said anything of the kind. You have a habit of responding to things I don’t say. I’d appreciate it if you didn’t, SaintAjora.

I didn’t do anything to help create this situation. Neither did the vast majority of Americans, except those who listened to Bush after 9/11 and shopped the terrorists away. Or the credit card companies. Or to the thousand voices telling them to buy, buy, buy. Did they have to listen? No, but nobody was caring if they listened as they were making their buck and that’s the problem. Making your buck is more important than anything else. For a corporation, this is law. For those in the stock market, it’s their way of life. So now everybody’s in a rush to make their buck, which causes perceptual panic and the media starts talking about a recession. Suddenly we’re in a recession, which causes more people trying to make their buck before it’s too late, which causes more poor perception.

So I’m faced with a bleak economic future because way back when somebody thought it’d be a great idea to bundle and trade subprime mortgages and those who own the means of production (and advertising, of course) have been drawing more blood from a stone that credit could bear.

And the corporations and investment houses come with a hand out saying “If you don’t bail us out, we’re going to be in a worse situation!”. Which makes business more important than people.

A system where the privileged few make decisions that have catastrophic effects on my way of life is not anywhere in the “Your Guide to Capitalist Democracy!” handbook I got when I signed up.

The elite depend on us to produce the materials (solve the problems, manage the people) that make them rich. They depend on us to buy the materials they produce that make them rich. Our entire society is focused on pleasing them so they can continue to pay us to make them rich. Yes, we are getting paid. I’m saying that’s not enough. As long as our society is focused on those whose sole mandate is to make more money, we can’t be focused on our citizens or fellow humans across the world. As such, I’d say that the current system is a blight and a plague of locusts that is currently in our path of achieving maximum global happiness.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Buy Nothing Day!!!!

I’m curious as to why you would encourage people to buy nothing. Perhaps you don’t understand economics…

Buy Nothing Day was started by Adbusters, a Vancouver-based magazine promoting a specific counter-culture. I’d say “No Logo” gives you a good indication of the thought behind the counter-culture with Adbusters keeping popular support going.

The specific holiday was created to counter overconsumption. People were concerned by the replacing of culture with consumption, the waste produced by this consumption, the loss of community and the poor lifestyle (and uninformed populace) that comes with things like TV watching and overconsumption.

Some people find it useful to remind themselves how much they buy each day. Some hope to get enough people to do it on one day to make a real dent.

Adbusters also supports TV Turn Off Week, another great event.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

What anarchist communities have you done a study on, SaintAjora? I’m assuming that you’ve looked at least, say, ten, since you’ve proclaimed that “most” collapse. That seems to be a pretty untenable claim.

This has nothing to do with “anarchist principles” (what principles?).

This suggests to me that you don’t know as much about anarchism as you think you do. I posted a wikipedia link that you can use to get started :)

Paladin2k, yeah. I think city states would be more effective.

I see. Thank you for the information. Did any of these people tried to form their own cities or dwellings free from all government intervention? Preaching their believe would be more effective if they make themselves as role models.

Not that I know of. The ones that I’m familiar with are too busy working to help other people in a more immediate fashion. Providing food, clothing, shelter and education. I think learning to work in an alternate governing system in a small group is far smarter than trying to “start a city”. That way they are free to see what works and what doesn’t as they expand and are free to make changes without the infrastructure that’d weigh them down immediately.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Proposition 8 in California, 2008

tbp: One of the functions of the Constitution is to protect the minority from the majority. So, during the Irish migration, people couldn’t say “It’s okay to kill the Irish” as long as the majority voted yes. The Constitution protected those people and all the other non-white, non-male, non-Protestant, non-Anglo-Saxon people throughout America’s history.

Notice I didn’t say non-straight. Sadly, it failed there. Because the majority are NOT SUPPOSED to be able to dictate rights to another group. That’s tyranny. The judges of California performed their function and determined that barring gay marriage was not in line with the laws and constitution of California. The people had no say in the matter.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

unproductive: Not as much as people might think but I meant a large body of people running on anarchist principles.

Paladin2k: I think any governing body is most effective when it’s governing a small group of people. A decentralized, web-like structure of many of these governing bodies seems like a better idea than traditional hierarchy.
These organizations are anywhere from 12 to thousands of people. Many of the protests against the G8 summits were run on anarchist principles.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Can someone explain how "bailouts" work?

But it does. As long as the money-go-round keeps working, people can carry on with their high quality of living.

and by people, you mean North Americans. The merry-go-round, or “golden straitjacket”, as it’s been called, certainly doesn’t benefit South America or Africa.

That system also makes business more important than people, which is what actually explains the bailouts. People who “create” wealth made bad decisions and now “we” are all in a recession and bear the costs of those decisions. When they make good decisions, however, they get richer and the divide widens.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

I think Jonestown was some sort of anarchy community

Not really….There hasn’t been a large governing anarchist body. Probably because large governing bodies suck. I do know small organizations that run on anarchist principles quite effectively.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

h4x: I appreciate your breakdown but I’d read about the philosophy of anarchism before saying it wouldn’t work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
It doesn’t mean “no rules”.

Historically, your breakdown is pretty accurate. We now live in a time when we can change these things. We have the means to feed everyone and we are choosing to not do it. Before a global paradigm shift happens, we need to take care of those who need it first. After 30-50 years of us doing that, then we can look at what our “human nature” is.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

Paladin2K, your response implies that we’ve considered all forms of governance. That isn’t the case. Discouraging others from thinking of alternatives by telling them that democracy is the best we have so far means that democracy will always “be the best we have so far”. We should encourage change. A changing civilizations is one that survives.

pmr – I heartily encourage you to read Emma Goldman. She was an anarchist in the late 1800’s and she writes about the ideas you’re contemplating.

instead of accepting things we must change them, improve them for the better

Word. And it just don’t stop.
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.” I think he meant we need to be vigilant against ourselves. Governance isn’t a machine that runs itself well.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

“When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.” — Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife, Brazil

Although the democratic system is not the best form of government, it is the best we have so far; until something better comes along.

I see this statement everytime somebody starts to question the current system. Nothing better is going to come along as long as we discourage people from thinking of those other ways.

Between ~ 1880-1920 there was a great international interest in forms of government. Communes (pre-hippy) abounded, anarchists and communists rose and people TALKED about how we can govern ourselves.

We’ve seem to have that lost the wonder and I think it’s beause we’re too satisfied with democracy. There’s a lot to be dissatisfied with, especially when coupled with capitalism.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Buy Nothing Day!!!!

Another good buy-nothing activity – Go to the Gap or a place that sells Bratz dolls with a 8 year old brown child (mexican or native will do). Offer people to sell them the producer of Gap clothing and Bratz dolls for cheap! Why buy the markup on child labour when you can have your own working away at home!

You’d probably be liable to be charged for more than disturbing the peace at that point.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

“I don’t see any glaring flaws in the current system.”

Seriously? Current consumer culture requires the constant production of things built out of finite resources. As the buyouts show, our society is built around keeping the rich, and those who speculate on their activities, happy. We’re producing gadgetry and pleasure items while people around the world STARVE.

Those are glaring flaws.

Topic: Serious Discussion / New American Century

Imperialism is a large concept with many different definitions. That’s why I said usually. It depends on your definition. If we wish to define it as including colonialism and the view that other cultures are inferior and in need of ‘higher culture’, then yes, I would say it’s an evil force in the world.

Topic: Serious Discussion / New American Century

It makes him an imperialist, not evil.

There’s not much of a difference. Imperialism usually includes colonialism, which is abhorrent. It also usually includes the idea that other cultures are inferior and are in need of that “shining beacon on a hill”

Topic: Serious Discussion / Military Recruiters In Schools(& Anarchy)

I agree that military recruiters at high schools is pretty distasteful. I find the military to be pretty distasteful though. I don’t think there’s much you can do about it (other than what you’re already doing, and good for you) because other organizations are allowed to come and present “career” options.

It’s like Army ads on filefront.com. “You like to shoot pixels! Being in the military is just like that!”

Topic: Serious Discussion / New American Century

I didn’t post to tell about the problems. I posted to do what I’ve already said – give an idea of what PNAC is about by providing figures who represent their ideals in their actions.

I’ve also already said that I don’t agree with any ideal in the link I posted. So I’ve already answered your question – all of them.

Topic: Serious Discussion / New American Century

I’m not sure how else to break it down. You just re-asserted your original claim rather than responding to my last reply. If major American political figures sign a statement of principles that has wholly to do with American politics, then it’s safe to say that their actions as political figures reflect the principles that they say they uphold. Like I said, this means their actions do reflect the principles of Project for a New American Century.

The ice cream example is faulty. If you said “And they affirm to uphold the princples of ice cream”, then you might be closer. :)

Topic: Serious Discussion / New American Century

It’s hardly guilt by association. I listed the people who signed the statement of principles. These people are well-known for their practices and policies. They agree with the tenets of a particular outlook to which I posted a link. Therefore, they agree and support those tenets and would enact them as much as possible in their political life. Therefore, their actions do reflect PNAC.

I don’t agree with any ideal stated in the link I posted.

Topic: Serious Discussion / New American Century

Karl Rove, Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz.

All signatories to the “Statement of Principles” – http://newamericancentury.org/statementofprinci…

Yeah. These are the people behind the decreasing civil rights and increasing aggression of the last 8 years in America.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Proposition 8 in California, 2008

Mind explaining why California had no right to speak on this issue under the constitution? I might have read you wrong.

Yeah I thought I was pretty clear too. Tyranny of the majority was the phrase I had in mind but couldn’t quite recall. Thanks, SaintAjora. It’s a perfect term to describe what happened in California. \

The judges had rightfully abolished restrictions against same-sex marriages. That was their job and they fulfilled it. The referendum was an abrogation of the system that has recognized the rights of non-whites, non-males and non-Christians in America for centuries. That’s why California had no right to speak on this issue. The majority shouldn’t determine rights.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Grown ups think all children are bad

Everyone might say it’s okay but the individual is still capable of thought. I wouldn’t say it’s easy but it’s still a choice. “Would I like it if someone murdered me? No. Then other people probably don’t like being murdered either.”

Topic: Serious Discussion / Grown ups think all children are bad

It’s totally the child’s fault if he grows up to be a murderer. Whatever his parents did, he still makes his own choices

Topic: Serious Discussion / Proposition 8 in California, 2008

“Blah blah blah, it is what it is my friend.” — Saying this as a response to reasoned statement is a good way to let everyone know that your ‘opinion’ isn’t worth consideration.

Topic: Serious Discussion / Proposition 8 in California, 2008

California has “spoken” on an issue they had no right to speak in. You live in a democracy that’s framed by a Constitution. The Constitution is there to protect the minority from the whims of the majority. Majority rules isn’t democracy; it’s subjugation of the few by the many. That’s why the judges who struck down unconstitutional bans on marriage were NOT “activist judges” but performing their duty as they should have been. They exist, in this context, to interpret framing constitutions and determine if current legislation abides by it. That’s not “activism” – that’s how your country is supposed to work. And all the non-WASPs out there should be really grateful for it.

“I believe that it is not good for a child’s mind to know that 2 men can sleep together, this would not have a postive effect on the brain, imo.”

Emokatz – Saying “you have your opinion and I have mine” isn’t good enough when it comes to individual rights. You’re stating that it’s not good for a child’s mind to know that 2 men can sleep together. Judging from the comma splice in your post, I’m guessing you don’t have a degree in child psychology.
There’s something called burden of proof. You’ve made a positive claim. It’s up to you to provide evidence for that claim – especialy when you’re making statements like that. Otherwise, “it’s my opinions” is just an excuse for keeping an irrational (read: prejudiced) “opinion” without fully examining it.