Recent posts by Celaeris on Kongregate

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Wild gem value

Originally posted by Lurlock:

The grade 6 limit has to do with how the gem is created. It starts with a grade 1 and goes through random combining 21 times. Not sure exactly what “random combining” entails, but try creating 22 grade 1 gems and combine them all, and you’ll end up with a grade 5. (With a leftover grade 3 and grade 2.) Obviously, there’s more to it if you can get up to a grade 6. (You’d need 32 grade 1’s to get that high.) But that at least gets you part of the way there. It’s obviously related to the system from GC0 that gave you a bunch of apparently random gems in Arcane mode. (Not really random because it was the same every time based on level, but then, this is also true of Wild Gem in GCL.)

What I’m still curious about is whether Wild Gem automatically negates your chance of getting the Journey Amulet for having no more than 2 gems at any time. I’ve been slowly building a new save file to test this, because my main save already has all the amulets.

I got the journey amulet when I had an active wild gem.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Best Ratio of Amps:Towers?

Attack speed seems to be shots per 110 frames or so. Even though there’s no cap, it’s hard to figure out if attack speed gets capped. (It might in towers, but you can’t see since you’re seeing everything one frame at a time.) Sometimes it can be wonky in 3x speed mode.

Not sure why you compare using 9 gems in for the 3 combinations and have them all be the same grade since gems in towers do a lot more damage than gems in amps. Drop 9 gems of the same grade in 9 towers and 0 amps and it would do more damage than any of the other 3 combinations. Amplifiers have always been useful if the gem in the amplifier is a few grades lower, because otherwise, you’re better off getting a higher gem in the middle.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Gem Combining

Originally posted by anakin2177:

Ah, sorry, I hadn’t seen that post… well, at least mine has pictures! XD

Is that 18.5% for each time you combine with two pures and recombine, or what?

The first one nets you like a 10% bonus, each successive combine is worth significantly less, and it caps out at around 18.5% or so. I only did like combines up to g18.

Originally posted by Gremlion:

1. Better show this on 7 grade gem(it could get 100% critical)
2. I found that for start it’s ok, but for endurance it’s extremely tedious.
I build my gems by combining 32 duplicated gems and it need 5 clicks.
Building same grade gem with constant combining with pure – will need a lot more time (because you will need to start with 16 cloned, 16 pure, and at this moment you can’t press shift-click to combine, you need to mix them manually, then you need to mix resulted gems with pure, again manually… it’s more than 100 clicks to build same gem for hp capped monsters. Maybe you could finish with 28 grade instead 29, but you loose much more time.

You only need to do it like 5 times or so. Start with a G1’s and make a G12. Because the bonuses cap it’s not really worth it to do it too many times. By the time you hit G12, it’s a pretty big bonus already, and the bonus stays as long as you upgrade/duplicate like normal, and don’t add in many pure gems or “normal” dual gems. And remember you only have to do this once. =D

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Why is there a limit to monster HP?

Originally posted by trebach:
Originally posted by Gremlion:

And again.
Developer said that monsters became immortal without hard cap.
It’s Flash limitations.

Without a hard cap, in theory monster HP would rise to 1.798*10^308 at which point it would loop to negatives.

Floats and doubles don’t overflow to negatives like integers do. They turn into positive infinity.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Gem Combining

As far as I know, I was the first to post it here on Kong:

You get about a 18.5% damage and special increase. It also means you can’t hit U to upgrade gems, and you sort of have to upgrade 2 grades at a time.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] The Gemcraft Labyrinth Help Thread

Originally posted by 20centimes:

Hi guys, read just 3 of these 9 pages, will come back later fr the rest…

I got a question about saves files, because I can’t locate mine on Win7x64. I saw in page2 that this was a possible path : C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Application Data\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\BNRBJNEW\

But I cant find “application Data” folder and the rest. A global search for the save files GiabGcl etc… on C then the whole computer turned out nothing… Please, help ! :)

“%appdata%” (without the quotes) always works, and it would lead you to the Application Data folder.

For Win7x64, your %appdata% folder should be: C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\
Then the save should be in Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\(letters and numbers)\

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] How can I backup the save file?? I am using google chome.

Originally posted by deanis73:

Anybody know where the file is located on a Mac?

Your_User_Folder/Library/Preferences/Macromedia/Flash Player/

and then the same as above.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Amplifier math

Originally posted by vesperbot:

Celaeris, the damage addition for trap gems is the same, it’s just it is applied prior to trap damage multiplier (0.2 non-premium, 0.5 premium with maxed trap skill).

I had notes on these, but I’d have to dig through the math again. Some of the stuff double dipped, as in they had to be multiplied twice in order for me to get the numbers to work out correctly. So like for damage bonus, the base tower damage of the gem in the amplifier was multiplied by 0.2 then added to the trap damage, then it was multiplied by 0.2 again or something crazy.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] How to save this game?? (if clear browser history all lost??)

If you delete your flash cookies, then it’s gone. If you clear your browser history, it should stay. Flash stuff is stored in appdata\Macromedia\(stuff). And that’s browser independent.

Also I don’t think CCleaner cleans flash cookies.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] How to change gem Target Priority?

Shift-click the gem.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] Base XP for Pylon Levels?

It’s hard on pylon levels because of the Overkill damage amulet. I’m not sure you can charge a (later level) pylon without dying with only 9x grade 5 gems since you can’t get grade 6 gems, nor can you build more than 9 towers. Also killing the shadow with just grade 5 gems seems rough.

As fractalman said, pylon stages follow normal/non-endurance stage rules. So the multiplier is between 1 and 50. You can either summon way too much or summon none at all to get 1.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Premium is Not Just Some Extra Content

GIAB posted a few reasons why games has premium content and there was a link on his blog.

Basically it came down to these people:

  • People who won’t pay.
  • People who want to pay for extra content.
  • People who want to pay for vanity items.
  • People who want have limited time (pay for power).

The payment for GC0 is for people who fall into 2, and 4. 3 doesn’t apply to this game.

You can read more about why game developers actually want to get paid here:

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Amplifier math

I’m pretty sure I answered this in a GC0 topic or Armorgames topic somewhere:

All values are for 100% amplification (1 gem being amplified). This is for towers. Traps have a bit more math associated.
Min, Max damage: 60%
Range: 10%
Speed: 16.2%
Special: 12%

For ratio of grades of gems versus amplifiers: The gem in the amplifier should be 5-6 grades lower than the gem in the tower, if you want to figure out where to most efficiently spend your mana.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Pylons

The pylon stage ends, as if you beaten any other stage when you kill all the monsters. Nothing happens. You don’t need to charge the pylon. Special event-scripts don’t run, (like after pylon 4).

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] When is Ritual worth it?

You just need to find the marginal mana per skill point.
Since you’re getting 600 mana per 80 skill points (it’s not marginal, but I don’t have marginal data, so I’ll just use this as an example), which is 7.5 mana per skill point.

If you were putting points into focus, between levels 11 and 16, you get about 7.5 mana per skill point. (7% mana-8% mana = 21-24 mana per 3 skill points, which is 7-8 mana per skill point). (300 mana is base).

So it’s probably worth it, unless the last used in maxing the skill is really high. But you’re probably putting more than 16 points into focus anyways.

If you need more amulets, you’re better off getting more battle amulets. The big ones are pretty minor since each amulet is worth the same.

Did some more research:
Presumably, based on the initial value of 3 skill points and you said 80 points total, the last point is going from per 6 amulet to per 5 amulet for 5 points. That means you gain 100 mana for that change for 5 points, which is a steal at 20 mana per skill point. Only the first 4 levels of Focus are better.

If you want the full calculation, it’ll depend on the number of amulets you have, and the number of points you have in Focus. (or number of skill points you want to spend on Focus + Ritual). The math is really simple, it’s just hard to present.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] High Level Skill Allocation Question (Grimlion Analysis Request!)

16.5 mana per wave isn’t that great. There’s 1000 frames per wave, and at 30 frames per second, it seems about right.

Mana from killing the mobs is much better, it’s 112 + 7.8*wave number per wave. It’s the same regardless of the number of different monsters, but division happens, so there’s usually rounding error.

I think early game, it’s better to invest more in replenish if you’re going for harder multipliers, as long as your initial gem can deal with the waves. Better damage is good, but you can look at it this way:
Angering with an extra grade 1 nets you 10% HP per monster, and probably around 4 extra mobs (talent). If you’ve angered say like 14 times (~165 armor ish), you’ll have maybe 60 mobs. 4 extra mobs is 7.5% more mana. So 10% HP for 7.5% more mana. If you have even more mobs, then the mana per HP increase is even worse. I’ve always angered with grade 1’s since you get the most mana back per mana used; although higher grades give more mobs, the extra cost for the higher grade gem usually means I get a lot less mana back per mob; but then again, that’s a gameplay decision, and not a talent decision.

If you put the points into extra mana, then you get that much extra mana. So basically, your Replenish vs Resonance ratio depends on how much you’re angering, and your marginal increases in mana. Resonance gets less useful as you get a mana farm, but once you have a mana farm, you should have no trouble keeping up with the waves, since the mana farm pays for itself.

Last tidbit, but I haven’t tried this: if you use giant only mode, increasing the number of mobs per wave doesn’t change the total giant wave HP. So if you pick quadruple, there will be 4x the mobs, but each giant will have 1/4 of the HP. It works on normal mode for the giant waves. So for giant mode, it’s better to increase the number of mobs, since the HP per mob goes down (and angering gets you mobs with fewer HP).

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] High Level Skill Allocation Question (Grimlion Analysis Request!)

If you want to figure out how you want to split your skills, you should figure out what your goal is. Is it to just beat endurance? Or is it to hit a really high mana pool, or high grade gem? Total damage done?

Beating endurance doesn’t really need much optimization.
For a high mana pool, Focus is probably going to be number 1, since you spend a lot of mana improving your mana pool in endurance, although a lot of things are tied to mana. Focus is only really useful for late-late game, to reduce spending more mana on improving your mana pool, which basically is a proxy for an easier way to duplicate gems.

Replenish is good for early game before getting your mana farm set up, but a high replenish modifier can save you waves so you get that mana farm working earlier. It’s very important when you decide to play with extra monsters, for extra mana from angering.

Resonance isn’t that important, but it’s good mostly for early-mid game, since a better gem allows you to anger more for more mana. If you can’t anger for mana, you need to fix it with replenish or resonance.

I usually open with a grade 5/6 dual gem, and focus doesn’t help that much with that, but I never played premium. Maybe on 4x mobs, you’ll need two gems for a better firing rate. The diminishing returns from extra initial mana is log(Focus), there’s much better return in getting it from replenish. (Also, I know ritual gives extra mana too, but I’m not sure how much).

It’s hard to set actual values, unless there’s something specific you’re actually looking for.

Good luck.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Stats unlocked

The shadow gets easier if you’re high level, with extra points into resonance for damage, and maybe replenish to get higher gems early. I considered farming it, but I realized I need about a ~grade 10 or 11 L/Y gem to kill the shadow, otherwise its armor’s too high. Charging the pylon didn’t take too long, as I think I managed to finish by wave 30 or so.

200+ waves do take a long time. Lots of breaks are recommended _, which just means that you play the game over many sessions. But it gets prone to computers crashing, and others using the computer, etc.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft chapter 0] 228 waves in Gemcraft (labyrinth!)

When you beat all 1337 waves, the level just finishes as if you had cleared the stage. Nothing else happens, it’s like you clear a normal stage. No “special” stuff happen as if you charged the orb.

As for battle multipliers, I found it much easier to run with armored + 2x monsters. Swarm is often the hardest to deal with if you’re going for score. Fewer monsters = more mana per anger early on which helps (but the 2x monsters hurt that quite a bit), and you can get mana farm setup really easily.

My last game, I got to wave 80, before my browser crashed :/. I miss my grade 29 gems :(.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

I did notice that playing at 3x speed messes up a lot of things, so the game handles stuff differently. If you try to send a wave early you always get 98% instead of 100% everytime you click or hit next. (It’ll be 100 if you click to send more than one wave at a time, but the first time you click the max you can get is 98%). I also noticed that the new auto-extend feature doesn’t extend your mana pool 3x faster when running at 3x speed.

So I wouldn’t be surprised to see hits have issues at 3x speed. I was trying to figure out if the game capped firing speed, and it’s really hard to test >_<. Capping firing speed is probably an okay bug, esp if they nerf lime gems.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Stats unlocked

Originally posted by fractalman:

…and the first couple of “kill at least 7000 monsters” are, at best, impractical without premium.

C11 is fun, I swear, on non-premium. It is a challenge amulet.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Stats unlocked

Originally posted by LordBucket:

a shadow appears in the 4th pylon level

Third pylon. J4, not D4.

Definitely the fourth pylon, the third pylon doesn’t have anything special.

Originally posted by LordBucket:

I guess that would make the “Kill 24 Shadows” amulet impossible to get as well

If you really want it, you could do the third pylon level 24 times. But as you point out, a few of the amulets require premium anyway, so you won’t be able to get every amulet even if you do.

There’s only like 10 amulets you can’t get without premium:
*12 battles with giant monsters
*5 battles at 10x HP
*beat all fields (can’t unlock M13)
*Column L giant monsters only
*6 challenge amulets for getting to wave 100

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

Originally posted by Streaks:

Do you have a graph for lime/orange gem scaling?
And also, does anyone know the formula for the cost to extend your mana pool?

Extend mana pool (regardless of mana pool mastery):
Next value = current value + round((current value + 773)/200)*10
The round function rounds to the nearest integer. I think 773 is correct, but it’s like close to it.
It also maxes out at 95% of your max mana.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] Numbercraft (the math behind GCL)

Originally posted by pongi01:

I did a little bit supergem testing. I tried also to find a formula for the damage increase for low gems but as far as i can tell these numbers are arbitrary.
The damage increase from Gr>12 is 56.9 to 57.5% depending on gem grade (the higher the more increase). Range increases for 8.18% per level, FS for 18.0%. Without FS increase the damage increases ~199% per grade for a Y/L but with the FS increase the dps increases for 211% to 251% (the higher the grade the better).

Y, L and O increase with 38% per grade, R for an awful 9% and B for 25%.
I tried a high R/Y/L gem (gr35) to see the effectiveness of red there. But you need more than 1 million kills for the gem (depending on grade) to reach the damage that a pure Y/L gem does for the same mana (wtf?). Completely useless.

O is useless past 20 or so since u fill the pool once per frame anyway. So the best gem is Y/L dual (has higher damage than any 3-colour gem). But I might try Y/L/B since the slow is pretty much a stun at higher levels.

I managed to manapool ~900 times per frame (with a macro of course) being pretty close to the max of once per frame.
My macro managed 502 duplications per frame (2 frames per duplication) which leads me to believe that a wave is actually 33.5 seconds and not 33 seconds giving 1005 frames per wave (can someone confirm this?). Manually it is possible to do 1 duplication per frame.

When combining two identical gems, the minimum damage increases by 54%, and the maximum damage increases by 58%. At low levels, a bit of randomness of +/-1 damage will be added. This is true even for creation of all gems directly, and that’s why there’s variation on damage. It ends up being a binomial distribution of min/max damages. Most of the time the effect is quite minor. All gems of the same color have the same grade 1 stats though. I didn’t really check the increased value of range, since it was so small, but for me it was 8-9%. For firing speed, it’s exactly 18%. (So for pure gems, it’s exactly grade1_value * (1.18) ^ (grade -1)). Combining gems and firing speeds are unknown, and same goes for damage.

Specials increase by 58% for poison, and 38% for Y/L/O (and also purple), 25% for B/C, and 9% for red. All percentages are exact. Red was designed to be useful at lower grades, it just doesn’t scale, which I think is fine.

Gems that are combined with a gem of the same grade that doesn’t have it’s own color, their specials are reduced, depending on the color, doesn’t matter if pure gems or dual gems are involved. Remember that duals and triple gems have only 80% specials. Poison damage is 96% (so 4% reduction), purple is 93%, Y/L/O is 88%, B/C is 87%, and R is 78%. (I also tested poison with combining with lower grades, it’s 97% for -1 grade, and 98% for -2 or more, but the stats are still horrible). An interesting case is that with interesting combining you can actually get slightly more damage and specials (and dps) from combining your gems instead of duplicating and combining the two gems. So I can typically make a dual gem of the same grade have about 18.5% more specials that most dual gems (damage is increased as well). Testing was done with Y/L gems since those are the most popular:

grade 12 pure gems: 871% crit if Y, 778% chain, if L.
grade 13 dual: 613% crit, 548% chain. (combine 2x pure)
grade 14 dual: 846% crit, 756% chain. (combine 2x 13 dual)
grade 15 dual: 1168% crit, 1043% chain. (combine 2x 14 dual)

However, you can get a better grade 15 dual by doing the following:
grade 14-Y: 1153% crit, 482% chain. (13 dual + 13 pure Y)
grade 14-L: 540% crit, 1029% chain, (13 dual + 13 pure L)
grade 15-super: 1284% crit, 1147% chain. (14-Y + 14-L)
There’s a 10% increased damage compared to if you combine dual gems directly.

You can repeat the process, but it maxes out at ~18.5% increased in specials. I didn’t test damage exactly, but at least with this you can get about 1.185^2 ~ 1.40 or 40% damage increase by a combining trick.

There are exactly 1000 frames per wave, which is 33 seconds and 10 frames. It was the same as in GC0. Counting frames was easier in time seige mode. =p The wave bars used to be 50 pixels wide, so they used to move once every 20 frames, but Peter shrunk the bars to 45 pixels for GCL, so they mode oddly now.

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Topic: General Gaming / [GemCraft Labyrinth] The Gemcraft Labyrinth Help Thread

Originally posted by nh3223:

Hello all—I have finished the final level and all of the maps other than the four corners, but would like to at least open up those maps and maybe try to get some more of the challenge amulets (currently only have 1,000,000 damage one).

I tried the L9, 7,000 monster challenge. I am non-premium, so am limited on the number of waves and monsters per wave. I ended up killing about 3,600, bombing maybe an average of 3 grade 1s per wave, so I am nowhere close, but I never had enough mana to bomb more (or to upgrade my defenses to withstand any higher level of bombing for that matter). I am level 80 or so. I tried this on swarm only (using lime-orange towers/traps, I think 4 and 2), since there is a higher base level of monsters, but would another setting be better because it would provide greater mana gain, even though more bombing would be needed? Do I just need to level up more? Any other suggestions?


You can definitely get the challenge amulet with non-premium, but it’s a bit harder. You’re level 80, which means you could level up a bit. The pylon stages help if you want to abuse the XP gain a bit.
The mode you want to use is armored, normal HP, normal monsters. You should have wild gem, which lets you start out with probably a grade 4 or 5 gem. Those are good to start out with. Unlock lime/yellow, if they aren’t already, and start with of those gems. Every grade 1 gem you use to bomb, should give you a bit extra mana, and anger enough so your gem can kill the creeps. You should get a bit extra mana from killing the waves, and extra mana goes to either mana pool (~10 times), a bit more firepower, or mostly trying to make a O/L gem for mana farm. If you get your mana farm up in time, you’ll have a lot more mana to anger and increase firepower. With a decent mana farm (grade 9~12), you can do fine even if you overanger the last few waves. Good luck.

I started the challenge amulets when I was level 200 ish, but most of the points went into replenish, since that helps a ton in getting a mana farm earlier.