Recent posts by Seizan_7 on Kongregate

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Topic: The Gate / To DEV- Please change the current event reward back to an ARCHER WEAPON

Originally posted by SeanM351:
Please change it to its original state

Sorry to disappoint you, but it was never ranged weapon. It said melee in description and it was only equippable to melee units. Only icon was wrong, functionality never changed. And it never will, because some people already equipped it to melee units.

 
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Topic: The Gate / World boss should be more strong (more hp or something)

Or maybe warning 30 minutes before it spawns. It won’t make people magically appear in front of their computers to farm it, but it would greatly reduce boredom that comes from staring at map waiting for WB to spawn.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Isla Mare

Mare isn’t tied to your level since few weeks ago. Power of your opponents depends on cards you have in inventory. With lvl 20 Arges you shouldn’t meet too difficult teams. Try to get your Arges to 25 (fear) and your Lili to 15.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Did i ruin my card i evolve base and feeder not max-level?

Unless you did it with more than 6 Argestes situation is still salvagable, since only main card and feeder have to be max level, not feeder’s ancestors. If you used all then contact support, there were numerous reports of them removing poorly evolved card and replacing it with propr amount of lvl 1 cards.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Mend, % health increase and bad translation/poor coding.

Few people on official forums reported that passive skills increasing % of team hp are bugged and don’t work. Since I don’t trust them on principle I decided to do my own tests and results are quite surprising.
“Increase the health of entire team by x%” does not work the way it says it does. Instead of increasing hp it actually raises healer’s attack by that %. So basically mend (and most likely other similar skills, don’t have access to them yet) works as a passive attack boost for healers. It does not, however, increase healing from Heal and Heal All skills or passive regeneration skills.

Wound (and most likely all similarly worded skills) works in reverse to mend: it decreases enemy healer’s attack, which means it’s totally useless against teams with no healers and raid bosses. However, it does affect both enemy passive self-regeneration skills like Recover or Recuperate and enemy healing skills like Heal and Heal All (unlike Mend).

 
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Topic: The Gate / DPS, defense and combat math.

Except when they don’t and you’re stuck with what you have. All it takes is one silence or demonic sanctuary. Not to mention that fear >> everything else. And during boss raids you want long term DPS. So in conclusion: burst strategy is even more overrated than high attack.

 
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Topic: The Gate / DPS, defense and combat math.

For quite some time I was certain that DPS is meaningless stat because units with lower DPS usually have slow attack speed but (very) high attack values, so their real DPS is much higher vs units with medium/high defence. But one day I saw lvl 25 King Belial with higher DPS than nightmare Succubus Princess and this made me think “is there a point where high DPS is just plain better?”.
For those not interested in math, the answer is yes, at some point units with high DPS deal more dmg than those with high attack even to armoured units.

Let’s compare 2 units, one with high attack (HA) and low speed (LS) (let’s call it tank for simplicity’s sake, but keep in mind it’s not always true) and other with low attack value (LA) but high attack speed (HS) (we’ll call it glass cannon). In this example they both attack same unit with certain defense value (D).
So when exactly real DPS of glass cannon is higher than that of a tank?
RDPS_gc > RDPS_t
(LA – D) * HS > (HA – D) * LS
LA*HS – D*HS > HA*LS – D*LS
LA*HS – HA*LS > D*HS – D*LS
LA*HS – HA*LS > D*(HS-LS)
(LA*HS – HA*LS)/(HS-LS) > D
LA*HS is simply DPS of glass cannon as displayed on card, similarly HA*LS is tank card’s DPS.
(DPS_gc – DPS_t)/(HS-LS) > D
As you can see for every two units you want to compare, there exists certain defense value where unit with higher displayed DPS will outperform one with lower DPS and higher attack. However in order to find it we still need to know those units’ attack speed (DPS/Atk).

Now real card example:
Lvl 1 Naberius Ice Burn: DPS 597, Atk 837, attack speed 597/837 = 0,713 (rounded) (rated C+ by aj)
Lvl 1 Corroding Maw: DPS 407, Atk 1018, attack speed 407/1018 = 0,4 (rounded) (rated A by aj)
(597-407)/(597/837-407/1018) = 606,14
If defending unit has defense higher than 606 then Maw will kill it faster, but if it has defence 606 or below then Naberious will have higher real DPS.
Real DPS of Maw: (1018-606) * (407/1018)=164,72 dmg/s
Real DPS of Naberius: (837-606) * (597/837)=164,76 dmg/s
Using rounded values produces slighty erraneous results (1% or so higher def threshold in favour of high DPS unit), so I used exact values at every step)
Considering how few lvl 1 units have defence value higher than 606 we can safely conclude that in majority of situations real DPS of Naberious will be higher than real DPS of Maw, which is what their displayed DPS suggests.

(Elemental) bonus dmg skills/DB/equips all increase attack by % of base value, which actually favours high DPS units since it increases threshold for defence required to make high attack speed units better.
Let’s use Naberious and Maw from example above, this time both with +50% attack bonus:
Naberius Ice Burn: DPS 895, Atk 1255; Corroding Maw: DPS 610, Atk 1527.
New defence threshold: (895-610)/(597/837-407/1018) (we use base values for calculating attack speed since it remains constant) = 909
As you can see raising attack by certain % raises DPS by same amount, but it also raises (by same amount) defence value below which high DPS/low attack units are more useful.

Notes:
I used level 1 disciples for a few reasons: I have both of them in my inventory so I could see attack value and calculate attack speed; they had same amount of DB/equipment (which is none); stat growth is based on % of base stats, so if a unit has low stat at level 1 (like LuBu’s defence) it will never grow higher (assuming same % bonus from equipment/DB and same lvl/evo) than that of unit with higher base (like King Purson), which makes lvl 1 cards with no equips perfect for comparison.
High attack/low attack speed units deal more damage with some of their skills since they’re based on attack damage, so that’s something to consider when choosing your team.
Energy Flux supposedly uses attack speed, so it might actually be better on high attack speed unit. Other skills using attack speed might exists/be created by developers later.
7x dmg bonus from using 3 rood definitely favours high DPS units unless boss have really, really high defence.

In conclusion: high attack is (somewhat) overrated, high DPS units can still have higher real DPS against heavily armoured targets, but to know for sure you need to know attack value (accessible via “devil blood” button on your disciples).

 
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Topic: The Gate / fear?

Also shockwave (dizzy), trap and ice. Shockwave and trap stun, ice I’m not sure (skill description says “can’t move”).

 
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Topic: The Gate / why day 7 reward is lower then day 6?

Since some dumbass from chat claimed it’s better to skip a day because this way you can get 70 gold/day[sic] I decided to do some math, so others won’t make similar ridiculous claims.
Days 1-6 you get 155 gold total and have to skip day 7, so you get 155+6*20 = 275 gold/week or 39,3 gold/day.
Without skipping you get only 20 gold day plus 4 medium/big DB and small chance for silver/rebirth scroll/100 gold/possibly something else. So you get 140 gold + 28 DB per week. Let’s assume worst case scenario and say all those DB are medium. 30 medium DB costs 60 gold, so 28 would be 56 gold. You also get 1 more daily gift, so 1 DB (2g) and bottle fo hope (100g). That adds up to 298 gold/week (42,6 gold/day). Sure, most of it is gold equivalent, but both hope and DB are still very useful.

Skipping 1 day: 275 gold/week, you lose one day worth of arena, mare, raids, quests, missions and whatever double rewards you get for that day. Not to mention one day of events.
Playing continously: 140 gold/week + 158 gold (or more) equivalent, chance for 100 gold. Also 2k arena coins, up to 1399 virago, 18 mare stones, etc.
In my opinion skipping one day is just not worth it.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Improve the manual fight mode!

Pause during which we could select targets would solve all problems. Otherwise all of the following must be implemented to change combat into something that isn’t complete nonsense:
1. AI should never override manual commands. Do you have any idea how fucking annoying it is when you finally make those moronic disciples to attack right target only to see them change it one second later?
2. Make AI less retarded. They should always aim for unit with highest DPS as default. Right now they do the exact opposite, first attack tank, then healer leaving glass cannon for last while it nukes your team.
3. Units should not be allowed to overlap. Not only it takes time to select my own, but then I have to be extra slow and careful while picking target because unit I want to attack hides behind another, larger one.

Right now this game isn’t about fighting enemy disciples, it’s about fighting moronic design of combat interface. Hotkeys solve little to nothing becaus it doesn’t matter that I can use skills immediately if all my disciples are aiming for wrong target and I have to waste time to make them attack the right one. Interactive pause is all I’m asking for, it should be easiest to implement (since there already is pause button) and gives best results.

 
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Topic: The Gate / why day 7 reward is lower then day 6?

Anyone confirmed you can’t reset back to day 1? Plus there’s chance for 100 gold, silver and rebirth scroll (yay?), it’s not always DB.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Mare shop, conspiracies and people who fail math forever

So there’s this conspiracy theory on official forums (started by their Super Moderator!) saying that when you have 6-7 copies of particualr UR from mare shop odds of getting another drop significantly so devs can get more money from players refreshing shop.
It proves what I said in another topic: Failbook players are idiots. In order to prove it I’m going to use… MATH! Dun, dun, dun! Are you scared yet?

There are currently 15 cards in rotation in mare store: 13 listed on wiki (probably, not sure if 2 of them can actually appear) plus Argestes and Rimmon. Mare shop has 2 independent card slots (same card can appear twice) and refreshes twice a day. That gives us 28 chances to see particular card during one week.
Odds of seeing particular card: 1/15. Odd of not seeing it: 1-1/15 = 14/15
Odds of not seeing particular card even once during one week (28 times in a row): (14/15)^28 = 14,5%
So it’s not nearly as unlikely as some people think. In fact, it’s quite common, 1 player in 7 won’t see particular card at all during entire week of mare shop rotation. There is no conspiracy by greedy devs, there’s no scam to make you refresh shop, there’s only random chance.

 
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Topic: The Gate / different attake in devil blood window

is verry powerfulk attake


Originally posted by oldschool82:

dps shows Your true damage

lol no

Displayed DPS is almost useless, it’s just very general guideline. Real DPS = (attack – defence)*attack speed. Rule of thumb: higher attack with slightly lower dps is still better than high dps low attack on most occasions.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Skill Upgrading

No, times for tiers can be extrapolated from other tiers, I mentioned nothing about levels. :P
Tier 2 is 2x time for tier 3 at the same level, Tier 1 is 3,5x tier 3. There is a minute or so added to higher levels, I guess it’s rounding error or something.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Skill Upgrading

Your favourite theorycrafter here. You could extrapolate missing times based on what you already have.
Tier 3 2 → 3 takes 44 min, tier 2 takes 1h28 which is 88 (44*2) minutes. For tier 1 it’s 2h34 = 154 (44*3,5) min.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Evolution of Full Argestes - stats

Since I used shortcut (never again!) for evolving my Argestes and ended up with stats lower than expected, I decided to make this topic so there would be place where everyone can check if stats on their Argestes are optimal.

Level 20, evo 3, no DB, item bonus in parenthesis (included in shown values):
HP 82970
DPS 3555 (3%)
DEF 3550 (3%)
ATT 7110 (3%)

Some people in chat said this hp is too low for perfect evo, but they had lvl 25 with DB + equipment bonus, so not particularly credible source. In case someone doesn’t know this yet: if you click on “devil blood” button you can see base stats (including attack).

If HP/lvl gain is a flat number, I expect my Arges to have 96140 hp at level 25, which would mean perfect evolution according to CyberSe7en.

 
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Topic: The Gate / unity crashed, game dont load

Update Internet Explorer and then start using it. Make sure your Unity is updated. Clear cache.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Ultimate Guide (WIP)

Ok, guess it’s my fault for making shortcuts. By “beat it all” I meant 2nd island. Completing stage 2 of island 2: hellforge up to island 2 stage 2 unlocked. Complete entire island 2: unlock entire island 2 in forge. Complete entire island 2 in forge: unlock Mare.

Rage amulet: that annoying thing that covers boss’ hp bar during raid. Hence the name. Orb of same element as disciple making killing blow on monster is filled by certain amount. Friends do count, despite some claiming otherwise. What each element does was covered in tutorial. :P Earth increases defence, air attack, fire deals direct damage, water is full heal.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Ultimate Guide (WIP)

Hellforge is definitely unlocked after beating 2nd boss of 2nd island, but you need to beat it all on normal in order to beat all in hellforge in order to unlock mare. Hence confusion.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Using 10 golden scrolls at one time?

Originally posted by Daisuke89:
getting 8 copies of an UR can take a lifetime

Wow, your species sure has short lifespan. It takes 32 days of full Mare clears to get 8x copies or 63 days of PvP assuming lowest tier reward every day (2k honour coins, double on weekends).

 
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Topic: The Gate / (To Devs) I can't see raid boss energy bar, please fix

Originally posted by SeanM351:
boss’s health is obscured at the top of the screen

Now you know why it’s called rage amulet. :P

Level influence has never been proven and lately more and more people report they don’t see it, so it might have been just a coincidence. Mare’s difficulty can vary a lot between days, so it’s quite possible that people who noticed huge difficulty bump were just unlucky.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Ose Infinite Squall

It all depends on his level and your team and strategy and what you need him for.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Guide to Evolution Super shortcut - and its cost

As someone else pointed out on official forum, shortcut bussines is terribly overrated. Main xp sink, going from lvl 1 to 20, is unavoidable. What you save is mostly few 1 → 10 trips, which is basically xp equivalent to spare change. In fact, my advice for newbies is: if you don’t get how shortcut works, do full, oldschool evolution and max out level of every card you evolve. I don’t feel like doing exact math (since I never noted down xp requirements and wiki is extremely poor when it comes to interesting information), but I have gut feeling that person going max level on each evolution stage will need 5% (or maybe even less) more xp to get from 8x lvl 1 to 1x lvl 25 compared to shortcut. And gap will be even smaller if lvl 30 is your end goal.
For people who want to calculate xp:

  • classic evolution: 8x 1 → 10, 4x 10 → 15, 2x 15 → 20 (and then 1x 20 → 25/30)
  • shortcut: 2x 1 → 10, 1x 10 → 15, 1x 1 → 15 (important! it’s 1, not 10), 1x 15 → 20, 1x 1 → 20 (1x 20 → 25/30), so actually shortcut is: 4x 1 → 10, 3x 10 → 15, 2x 15 → 20 (1x 20 → 25/30).
    Savings from shortcut: 4x 1 → 10, 1x 10 → 15. And that’s all. Charts are nice and everything, but math is cruel mistress: shortcut gives you almost nothing, and it’s hard to understand for some players. It’s not entirely without use, since it gives some people opportunity to fix early evolution mistakes, but it’s not crucial element of gameplay, more like min/maxing curiosity.

    Personal note: “Originally found by Tiui Yeh and Carl Bagarinao in The Gate Keepers Facebook group”. That’s one of many examples why I ignore so called wisdom of failbook “gamers”. Sure, on chart it looks like an amazing way to get that sweet lvl 25 in no time, but then math comes in and all that promised land turns into shit. I’m all about min-maxing and whatnot, but with the amount of hype this method gets one would think it’s second coming of zombie Jesus. Well, it’s not. So if you ever see me being sceptical about someone’s claims about game mechanics, now you know why.
 
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Topic: The Gate / best ultra rares to grind for first?

How can Cardea be a waste? She’s better than Rimmon, and if you want to use 2 healers, Cardea + Rimmon >> Rimmon + Lili (since you’ll be replacing Lili with Cardea). In long term (nightmare evo) you want best healer possible, and at the moment it’s Cardea. Well, Nemesis if you’re whale willing to spend $1000 for 8x, but that doesn’t apply to most people.
Unless you’re spender, you’ll most likely forever have 0 base copies of Cardea, just like every other UR aside from Argestes/Princess Octo (and possibly Nymph, not sure about her status), so I don’t see how this affects your decision.
I know Cardea will be my 1st choice, because tanks/dps are plenty, but healers are rare as hell. Plus she’s wind, so you get synergy with your guaranteed UR – Argestes for best healing possible ATM. My only problem with this card is art. It just couldn’t be any uglier even if they tried.
Earth is, in my opinion, bad choice at the moment, since everyone will be running Argestes and I expect quite a few people attempt mono wind thanks to Cardea. And you really don’t want that elemental advantage to be used against you. Maybe later, once metagame starts diversifying due to mono fire owning all the Argestes fanboys, earth can be a thing, but right now I just don’t see it.

 
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Topic: The Gate / Jokers?

Originally posted by Olovlig1:

so i notice they only lvl up to lvl 10

There are 3 different kind of jokers, one for each stage of evolution.