Recent posts by JohnnyBeGood on Kongregate

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Topic: Serious Discussion / 600

Originally posted by thepunisher52:

This part always makes me wonder,
How can one be so lacking in sense of self preservation to charge at the enemy head first?

Because those who did not charge were commonly shot as deserters. Add in the fact that such charges were generally a lot less bloody at the time. Even more than 70% of the light brigade survived. And they did not just charge the enemy head first, but through this and back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charge_Timeline.jpg

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by Labayka:

continuation of shooting rockets as an achievement of the Hizbullah?

Nasrallah is honest about bombing civilians.

Does not matter even if it were true. Either you use the same standards for both sides or continue being nothing more than Troll. Since you never started counting based on Humanitarian Achievements i suggest you stay honest about that.

I disagree with those numbers.

Nice catch, the Israeli number is a couple of billions short.

Those are the official numbers of 2007. With Isreals being 2 Billion higher than your claim. I disagree with both those numbers (ours and the official ones of 2007). I was trying to explain how an official damage of X billion can be many times more in real. Its because such damage estimates generally look at the data thats easiest to get. And thats what it cost to make the damaged good in the first place(you generally have such data archived). Problem is you won´t get a new object for that money. Its generally gonna cost many times more. The older an object is the greater the difference is going to be.
Why do i increase the Lebanon numbers while decreasing the Israeli number. Several reasons. 1. Israeli infrastructure and buildings tend to be newer than those in the Lebanon. 2. The Lebanon has been going through an economic boom before the war far greater than Israel which means as Wages went up so did production prices. 3. While the foreign Aid to the Lebanon was greater than that to Israel if compared directly it was not in terms of damage received.


But while Israel has recovered to postwar Status, the Lebanon has not

Really?

“hey they destroyed the bridge.”
“Oh how much did it cost.”
“About 2 million”
“Well we got 2 million lets rebuild it”
“Sorry, but thats gonna cost 200 Million”

Its like being a Hotel owner who´s hotel was making 20k $ before the war, who looks at his income sheet and says yay i made 100k this year. Ignoring the fact that those 100k were foreign aid/debt and that he had to spend those 100k on a new hotel because he lost the old one.

Is that your proof? At least there are no sports analogies. So, basically Israel recovered because they they lost 1.5 billion less?

Nope. Israel recovered because the damages were small compared to their GDP of around 140 billion at the time. Most of the Damages were paid for in advance or by foreign Aid.
Lebanon did not and has not recovered because the damages were a substantial part of their 20 billion GDP of that time (by my estimate actually equal to the GDP). While the GDP in the Lebanon has increased greatly most of that Money is being sunk in repairing the damages. The increase is still good, since it means that the Lebanon is certainly recovering. But there is deference between has and is.

Lebanon recovered. Get over it, Israel made zero accomplishments. Silly analogies don’t change anything. The statistics say that Lebanon recovered and the suffered again because of the Syrian civil war. Let’s ask the UN

Your source nowhere says that the Lebanon has recovered after the 2006 war. The most it comes to is saying that after debt went up to 180% of GDP it went down to 134% (which is not that grand considering the post-war increase of GDP).

You have yet to explain how that affects Hezbollah. Lebanon doesn’t pay their salaries or expand their arsenals, or control them. The extent of the damage to the Lebanese economy has pretty much zero influence on Hezbollah’s army.

No, i don´t. Its enough to know how it effects Israel. Again Lebanon was the greatest threat towards Israels Zionist policies and propaganda. Just by the Lebanon becoming a prosperous modern multi-ethnic democratic Country as direct Neighbor to Israel. Which would undermine their greatest propaganda selling point the image of: Israel as a bastion of Western-Civilization in a uncivilized Region.
Thats something that Israels Zionists do not have to worry about for now.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by Labayka:

Because your forgetting the economical, infrastructural and political damage done to Lebanon. Before the War Lebanon was on its way to becoming one of the top 2nd Worldword countries, with prospects of even making the jump to 1st World Nation in the next decade or two. That was a dangerous situation for Israel in itself because having a prosperous and stable multi-ethnic democratic Country with a working civil Law Code as a Neighbour would undermine Israels propaganda that they are the only country like that in the area.

Wow, so indiscriminate bombing civilian infrastructure is an accomplishment in what way? Every war has “economical, infrastructural and political” damages. Stop trying to exaggerate this war crime into an accomplishment.

Sigh. 1.Are you trolling or just Stupid? You make this argument after citing Hamas continuation of shooting rockets as an achievement of the Hizbullah?
2. In Wars winners and losers are not chosen by who or what was morally right but by looking at the factual outcome.


Thats where the 20 points to 1 come from. 20 billion economic damage against about 1 billion (it gets even worse if you figure in GDP).¨

No. Inflating numbers by yourself is a bad idea. It’s 5 billion USD in direct and indirect damages versus 1.5 billion USD for Israel.

I disagree with those numbers. If you take the Raw data of 2007 it would be around(Source Wiki):

for Lebanon, with an official estimate of a fall in growth from +6% to 2% and US$5 Billion (22% of GDP)304 in direct and indirect costs, while the cost for Israel was estimated at US$3.5 billion.305 Indirect costs to Israel include a cut in growth by 0.9%.306 and the cost to tourism was estimated at 0.4% of Israel’s GDP in the following year.307

But that data is limited and misses major points. Both the Lebanon and Israel had financial help. Several Billions worth in both cases. But while Israel has recovered to postwar Status, the Lebanon has not. Thats because making Estimates of Damages can be done in many ways. The four most important are initial-value, market-value, rebuild-value and return-value.
Initial-value is the value that it cost to buy/make, market value is the money it would take to buy a similar as possible object on the market, rebuild value is the value it takes to rebuild it, and return-value is either the market-value or replacement value plus the upkeep/income generated for the rest of the objects life-expediency (or until the next expected major life prolonging overhaul becomes necessary).
To me the 5 billion and 3,5 billion represent the market value or even the initial building costs. Kinda like this:
“hey they destroyed the bridge.”
“Oh how much did it cost.”
“About 2 million”
“Well we got 2 million lets rebuild it”
“Sorry, but thats gonna cost 200 Million”

And Lebanon recovered by 2008. Look at their GDP.

Sigh. Gross domestic Product is the value of all final produced goods and service in a country. Thats naturally going to go up during a rebuilding process. So much destroyed stuff to replace and paid for either through debt or foreign Aid. Its like being a Hotel owner who´s hotel was making 20k $ before the war, who looks at his income sheet and says yay i made 100k this year. Ignoring the fact that those 100k were foreign aid/debt and that he had to spend those 100k on a new hotel because he lost the old one.

Please, no more stupid analogies.

Their not stupid just wasted if you don´t know sports/soccer. I tried using different and more simple ones above.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by Labayka:

Israel lost almost every battle in the war, made zero accomplishments but they weren’t defeated? Makes no sense.

Because your forgetting the economical, infrastructural and political damage done to Lebanon. Before the War Lebanon was on its way to becoming one of the top 2nd Worldword countries, with prospects of even making the jump to 1st World Nation in the next decade or two. That was a dangerous situation for Israel in itself because having a prosperous and stable multi-ethnic democratic Country with a working civil Law Code as a Neighbour would undermine Israels propaganda that they are the only country like that in the area.
Thats where the 20 points to 1 come from. 20 billion economic damage against about 1 billion (it gets even worse if you figure in GDP).

And your sports analogy is ridiculous, and it implies that Israel was close to reaching their goals. This is far from the truth, Hezbollah’s rockets continued to fall, their invasion was defeated and they didn’t get their 2 soldiers back until 2008. So it’s more like saying the first place club was defeated by the last place(very unfair btw) because they they made 0 points (one if you count damage to civilian infrastructure) to whichever amount of points the last place club got, it has to be less than zero for your stupid analogy to work.

I don´t see that at being Close. In Most sports games is a very big differnce between having the opponent score 0 or 1 point. Likewise getting more points becomes harder after each one since a match has limited time. But too make the analogy better i will refer to a soccer match where the 1st placed Club stated the Goal of beating the last Place 11 goals to 0 and only played 7:1, with the 1st place Clubd making terrible mistakes all the time and having even the individual bench players(those that did not even get to play) earning more than the other clubs total Assets are worth.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why american soldiers should not be allowed in ukraine?

Originally posted by Winnabago:
Originally posted by RollerCROWster:

I agree, they VOTED to be annexed!

Its like how Texas became an independent country after they VOTED to leave the US!

discuss

Are you referring to when Texas left the United States to join the CSA? Because the war against the CSA was only justified in the sense that slavery was an institution that violated human rights. What other reason besides slavery makes CSA secession seem morally wrong, if we are to assume that people have a right to self-determination?

Because self-determination has to necessarily be limited by practical considerations. Otherwise self-determination will be totally annihilated by the consequences. Its the reason why larger communities above the family level were created in the first place. Numbers provide security and prosperity.

A better comparison: Puerto Rico has a significant pro-independence movement today. If they wished to leave the USA and form their own constitutional democracy, shouldn’t they be allowed to?

Whats the difference between Puerto Rico and any single landowner just claiming independence and making his own country on his land?

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
this is where I disagree with you, Technological difference is not that great, also it can be minimized but sheer numbers cannot be done so.

Sorry but if that was true Israel would not have existed beyond 1948. History is full of examples of how sheer numbers can be minimized.
The basic 5 are:
Superior Weapons and Armour(better range, faster firing rate, better accuracy, greater destruction radius)
Superior reconnaissance (and stealth).
Superior Mobility/Logistics.
Superior Coordination.
Psychological shock through disorientation.

Israel easily beats its current enemies in the first 2 and overpowers them in Point 3 and 4. Point 5 is easily achieved by applying the advantages of the first 4. A great Example is the Six-Day-War.
The only real thing keeping Israel in check right now is its dependence on good relationship with G7. Which means they have to be careful not to kill/harm to many civilians.

I agree with the weapons, but, Armor? Not so much, if a ragtag group of Idiots LIke Hezbullah can Blow their tanks, a well organized army can surely do better.

Yes, but even if they could do it much much better, that does not make it sufficient easy to say that Armor that superior Armor is not greatly effective. Its especially important to not that the tanks Israel lost were not lost due to Numbers but the opposite. It took limited available equipment and specific and rare circumstance to pull it off.

Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Recon is not much of a factor given the size of Israel, old school ways will do just fine too. Al though I do Admit the skill of their inteligence services.

Your underestimating the scope of Recon. Old School ways are useful for a small tactical force but not a large army(compared tp modern ways), because old school ways involve sending a small number of people on foot to go take a look and then report back up the chain of command. The time delay is bad enough, but made even worse by the fact that every step deeper into contested or enemy territory increases the chance of losing the team and getting no report.

Originally posted by thepunisher52:
Mobility can be negated by well placed rockets, some goes for logistics.

In very very specific cases, but not in general. And i don´t see any of those specific cases applying here in a way to have a significant impact on the superior Mobility/Logistics in place(and thats even ignoring the fact that Israel has a much much larger number of rockets which are much much more accurate).

As for Co-ordination, That is Israel’s X-factor, they are united they pursue common goals rather than having different agendas.

Thats one factor nice you noticed. It also refers to the ability to quickly and accurately (and secretly/securely) communicate with the different elements of an Army. More important the larger your numbers get, because without good coordination

Originally posted by thepunisher52:
The point I’m trying to make is, Israel can not survive a Total war with conventional weapons for far too long and if nukes are brought in the game, well then all bets will be off on either side. Then it will be a matter of who wipes out whom first. and this time this time arabs are not as ill prepared as previous wars

Your wrong. Total war means little to no consideration for civilian casualties and actually includes specifically aiming at them. If that where to happen Israel would win big time. It would really be akin to Vika´s description of pouring boiling water down a anthill. currently Israel is using drops of boiling water trying to just hit specific Ants. Thats hard, especially because the equipment they are using is more suited to killing lots of ants.

Originally posted by Labayka:

The only real thing keeping Israel in check right now is its dependence on good relationship with G7. Which means they have to be careful not to kill/harm to many civilians.

Israeli intelligence was useless in 2006, most of what they bombed in the first days, when they actually had military targets, were decoys purposefully built under Israeli surveillance. Hezbollah’s vast tunnel networks was a surprise to Israel. Until the Hanit was hit, Israel had no idea that Hezbollah possessed anti-ship missiles. And Israeli air superiority was of no help either, they failed to destroy Hezbollah capacity to launch missiles, or cripple their leadership. Israel failed in the 2006 war. Accept it.

Sorry but it seems your confused. There is a difference between Israel failing to achieve their Goals (what your listing here) and Israel losing/being defeated by Hizbollah (the claims you repeatedly made and that i am denying).
Thats like saying the first place club of a sports league was defeated by the last place, because the first place only made 20 to 1 points and did not achieve their goal of making 25 to 0 points.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Prostitution

Originally posted by thijser:

Vika you really believe it’s a good idea to have every traffic violation be brought to court? And what abou those who can neither afford to pay the fine nor miss the day of work? Plus how often would you have to liqudate a large sum of your property to pay the biggest of 1% of you annual income or 1/20% of your total net value? Even if you a worth 3 million that is only 1500$ for a traffic fien (sure it would otherwise have been around 150$ but still).

I think your underestimating total net value. 1% net value is generally more than 100% net annual income for the average person. Suggest sticking to daysets (1/365% of net annual income) and applying a number of those according to the severity of the issue.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by thepunisher52:
this is where I disagree with you, Technological difference is not that great, also it can be minimized but sheer numbers cannot be done so.

Sorry but if that was true Israel would not have existed beyond 1948. History is full of examples of how sheer numbers can be minimized.
The basic 5 are:
Superior Weapons and Armour(better range, faster firing rate, better accuracy, greater destruction radius)
Superior reconnaissance (and stealth).
Superior Mobility/Logistics.
Superior Coordination.
Psychological shock through disorientation.

Israel easily beats its current enemies in the first 2 and overpowers them in Point 3 and 4. Point 5 is easily achieved by applying the advantages of the first 4. A great Example is the Six-Day-War.
The only real thing keeping Israel in check right now is its dependence on good relationship with G7. Which means they have to be careful not to kill/harm to many civilians.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by thepunisher52:

You know, every Game boss has a weak point which is usually shining so you know where to hit?
Israel has one too, well, the point is, they can not take too many losses, its just Russia vs Germany. Germans were well trained and equipped but there were just too many Russians.

The Russian colossus…has been underestimated by us…whenever a dozen divisions are destroyed the Russians replace them with another dozen.
August 1941, from “The World at War” – Page 129 – by Mark Arnold-Forster – World War, 1939-1945 – 1981


Same is true here.

I disagree. Germany could and would have beaten Russia despite Russia’s numbers if it had not run out of fuel. Fact is superior numbers of troops become meaningless with a sufficient technology and/or skill difference.
The tech and skill gap between Israel and its neighboring countries and even more between Israel and the terrorist/militia groups targeting it is just to big.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by Labayka:
Originally posted by JohnnyBeGood:
Originally posted by thepunisher52:
only military force will solve the problem of Israel.

This I do agree with but unfortunately, no one in the area has enough military might to face the zionists.

I agree that there is no military power in the Region that could and would fight the Israeli Military and win. Even if such a military power would exist that would just get the EU and USA involved. Additionally it raises the threat of MAD.

The only real solution available is building up political and economic pressure. A pressure that can only be gained by getting popular opinion in Western countries to change. Something the Hizbollaha, PLO and Hamas are terrible at, since they are quite frankly mentally and emotionally to scarred to think straight.

Hezbollah defeated Israel twice, in 2000 and 2006. What makes you think they can’t do it again?

I don´t know which world you live in, but not in this one.

What do you mean by Hezbollah not being able to think straight? Hassan Nasrallah is a very smart man, in my opinion the most charismatic Arab leader.

Being smart does not protect from the emotional and mental trauma caused by traumatic experiences. And traumatic experiences are quite common in the waring Nations of the middle East.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Hezbollah: Resistance movement or terrorists?

Originally posted by thepunisher52:
only military force will solve the problem of Israel.

This I do agree with but unfortunately, no one in the area has enough military might to face the zionists.

I agree that there is no military power in the Region that could and would fight the Israeli Military and win. Even if such a military power would exist that would just get the EU and USA involved. Additionally it raises the threat of MAD.

The only real solution available is building up political and economic pressure. A pressure that can only be gained by getting popular opinion in Western countries to change. Something the Hizbollaha, PLO and Hamas are terrible at, since they are quite frankly mentally and emotionally to scarred to think straight.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Airplanes just dont disappear, they have to go somewhere... right?

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

But, vika….key to my point is that it SHOULD NOT be capable of being switched off FROM the plane. In fact, should it be shut down for any reason, military planes equipped w/ radar would be launched right along w/ very fast fighters….asking via radio and “eyes-on” contact w/ the pilot.

Your idea is not that easy to implement. Simply due to the fact that planes cross boarders. There are countries and Airlines that can´t afford the costs to implement the system and infrastructural upgrades it would need. Which makes it largely useless for those countries and Airlines that could afford such systems to implement them now.
Considering that such cases as this one are fairly rare, its not going to whip the current State of Art up to first generation level.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why american soldiers should not be allowed in ukraine?

Originally posted by fma1:

One thing I don’t quite get about the Ukraine issue is Russia’s attempts to annex a region of Ukraine. The people of that region voted on it and the vote showed that those people want to be annexed by Russia. So if there was a succession vote, why is the west so upset about the idea of Russia annexing a place that wants to be annexed?

Because the Issue is much more sophisticated than you make it seem. Even if Russia did not practically invade the Region before hand and the Vote was actually more than shame and Russia did not actually have an treaty with the Ukraine stating that it would respect the territorial Independence of the Ukraine (for wich the Ukraine gave its atomic stockpile and allowed Russian troops to be stationed in the Krim), then the West (aka as the NATO) would still have an Issue with Russia taking over the Krim or any other region for that matter.
Fact is the Nato has been encroaching into former Soviet territory and gaining members there even though they promised not to. The planned missile defense in Poland was also not exactly reassuring for the Russians. These things have lead to re-rise of the old Coldwar mentality. With the Ukraine replacing former divided Germany and the Krim replacing Berlin.
Add in the fact that the territory grabs of Putin look disturbingly like the territory grabs of Hitler before WW2, it makes one want to cringe. Put up the Armageddon clocks.

And how does any of this affect the western countries at all?

Globalization. Colliding Spheres of Influence and Economic interests.

Doesn’t the American government have more important things to deal with? Things like fixing the issues in our own country before going off to try to fix other countries.

1. That implies that the USA could fix their own important issues at all. Which seems kinda doubtful.
2. American foreign policy is actually the second* most major thing keeping America at float economically. And thats even considering all the recent and less recent mess-ups (from Vietnam to Afghanistan).

1* the first is having the most important market due to having a both a relatively very large and relatively very wealthy consumer base.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why american soldiers should not be allowed in ukraine?

Originally posted by issendorf:
The problem the EU has, is 40% of the gas the entire continent uses, comes directly from Russia.

The EU’s reliance on Russian gas is more out of convenience, not necessity. The US is beginning to ramp up our own exports of gas, as well as an expansion of gas from nations like Qatar.

1. The US is a net-import Nation of Gas.
2. Transporting Gas is not that easy, the capacity for using modern techniques(like Liquid Natural Gas) that make shipping it reasonable are limited.
3. The production in Europe is slowly but steadily going dropping(and will continue to drop).

So the Gas from Russia can´t be replaced with Gas from elsewhere so easily. On the other hand European countries could replace the Gas easily with other forms of Energy. The reason they don´t want to do so(and in some cases can´t) is that the current gas deals are generally quite below World-market level. Buying on the World-Market is gonna hurt especially when the demand/supply effect of an Russian Embargo kicks in.

Still its very certain that the EU is going to take a much harder Stance than was the case with Georgia. Because its never been an issue of courage/spine but of interest. And the EU has very strong (conservative not humanitarian) political and economical self-interests in the Ukraine.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Should Psychological Data really be Your Exclusive Property?

Originally posted by vikaTae:

There was a nice opinion piece in the front of Nature magazine this week (16th January 2014, Vol 505, No. 7483, page 263) arguing that as our study of the brain progresses ever deeper into the recesses of the organ, and we use vision tracking techniques, invasive and non-invasive brain machine interfaces to ever greater extents, there is a danger of eventually, through shared data repositories and data mining of the resultant big data, we could very well wind up with complete and in-depth psychological profiles of essentially every person in the country.

Personally i don´t see it as Danger. For many especially those suffering from psychological conditions that impair their lives. A better, complete and in-depth psychological profile is something to look forward to.
The dangers lie more in wrongful application of such Data, which is indeed frighting when one can think of all the possibilities to abuse and the self interest of many to abuse such.
One example of such would be using such data to better indoctrinate shit into Children, so that their Parents/the Government can “program” exactly what kind of personality they want. While many tricks in that regard are already being used, those tricks are not as good as the tools that will be available in the future.

So far I agree with it, but the piece goes on to suggest that because of the immense ramifications of use of this data to predict what you desire and what you will do even before you are really aware of yourself, it would be better if every person’s psychological map was owned in entirety by that person.

I agree. Its certainly necessary to limit the amount of abuse that can be done. But there are going to be exceptions anyway. Just like there are already a lot of exemptions regarding all types of personal data that are supposedly to be protected.
Fact is three things generally automatically lead to such protections being largely voided. 1. Government Benefits 2. Crime 3. Taxes (in that order).

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What would you do?

Originally posted by vikaTae:
Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Why on earth would he assume any of us want to film such a thing….at least in the manner he is implying? I think it has been suggested that such be done IN ORDER TO ASSIST any forthcoming PROSSECUTION of those breaking the law. Shit, even THAT effort could get a person beaten or killed. At the very least, they will no longer have their phone.

Johnny and I would likely both take this recourse. However neither of us would be storing the data on our phones. Johnny has software that live-streams video to the German police if he needs it to. I have significant amounts (2TB I think the limit currently is) of cloud storage on the net. Both of us would be pointing out to the attackers at the time, that the incident and their faces are now on video. Prominent witnesses would also be on video (business owners / employees in the area. Maybe residents peeking out their windows.

If our phones are taken away, well, Johnny’s video is with the police, and mine, well, it doesn’t require a manually entered password to upload stuff, it does require a manually entered password to delete stuff. So even if they have the phone, they cannot alter or remove the video.

I would as mentioned also use the filming and even just my presence as a Witness as an immediate threat to get the attackers away from my friend. But only because i have the confidence that i can survive the immediate attention of the attackers, with better chances than Jhco with him pulling his gun. By not using a gun or other dangerous weapon i don´t escalate the conflict.
At least as long as the worst case scenario does not apply and it becomes necessary for me to use force to get the attention of the Attackers away from my friend.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Jerusalem Syndrome & Stendhal Syndrome

Originally posted by vikaTae:

Sounds like it is what is known as a somatoform issue. That is to say it is a condition entirely caused by the way the brain is processing information, as opposed to any physical reason. I would extrapolate from the basis for both conditions, that they are triggered by a disorder in how the person’s emotional state is interacting with the information being processed visually…

…So it is not too great a leap to suggest that the relationship can go the other way as well: The visual patterns received by the eye are triggering excessive emotional responses…

… if you’re seeing something that you perceive to be beautiful (highly spiritual would I suspect trigger the same circuits as highly beautiful to a believer of that spirituality) then your positive emotional sensation gets caught in something of a feedback loop; it is like it doesn’t know when to stop, and continually enhances your mood.

For many it does not even need a feedback loop. Instead for many people who otherwise live more emotionally detached lives, when they are suddenly confronted with even relatively small amounts of such emotions, they are overwhelmed.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What would you do?

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

EPR, I’m curious about those “automatisms” in your car. I know there are some very high tech equipment on vehicles these days…even those that can parallel park themselves (via computerized sensors on the outside). But, none of them would preclude me from pulling the maneuver I suggested above (if present, they can be overridden). Or, even pulling a Brody maneuver were I to be meeting the car bomber rather than him speeding past me.

I think the Automatisms EPR is talking about, are more of the mental unconscious types People have. As EPR said training and experience of car driving is generally focused around avoiding crashes not initiating them. For most people this reaches to a unconscious level of ingrained reflexes that can not be easily overcome. The precious time it takes to mentally brace themselves and overcome such reflexes would likely be larger than the time window to react and even if overcome in time would severely reduce the precession of actions taken.

Originally posted by jhco50:

You basically have two choices, stand by and let your friend die while waiting for rescue or present your legally carried weapon, fire a warning shot, and watch them scatter. If they don’t scatter and continue (or come at you), eliminate them, thus saving your friend. You would be eliminating a dozen criminals that will not hurt anyone else. Case closed.

12 People is a lot. While its likely that they will break and scatter (either form the warning shot or from being shot at in real), if they don´t it´s much more likely that they will kill you than you all of them. And thats only if they don´t just pull their legally or illegally concealed guns and blast you.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What would you do?

Originally posted by vikaTae:
<

Yes, but I was factoring in my stature relative to theirs. I’m no match for a late teenage male, let alone a fully grown adult male. That fact has been rammed home with a great deal of pain on several different occasions. With twelve of them present, that completely rules out blundering into the fight. Any weapon I brought has the same problem; it can be taken away from me and used against others if they happen to be armed, or even catch me from the side or behind.

So wading into that mess would absolutely be out of the question for myself, or anyone else with similar muscle strength ratios. Were there a smaller number, I would give serious consideration to going and getting my car, then returning with it to use as a weapon, as it cannot be easily wrestled from me, and negates a lot of the physical capability differences. It depends a lot on how close the vehicle is, and how serious things are getting.

Still, I wouldn’t use maximum force; it is still about self defense and the defense of others. Plough hard into them yes, but again not smacking them over and over once they are down, or chasing them down once they have started to flee.

I would not go wadding in there, unless I deem it absolute necessary. Can´t really win against a dozen. But unarmed and faced with more than one attacker, i need to dispose of them as fast as i can. So i can´t use less damaging holds and i can´have the ones i “surprise” getting back into the fight, which means using the quickest and most efficient disabling techniques i know.
If am lucky i can take out perhaps three of them before getting into a position where bluffing or running become the only sane Options. And can only allow myself this stance because i am confident in my ability to run for it if i have to.
On the other hand i am not confident enough in my driving skills to use a car, though i appreciate the idea.

Originally posted by thepunisher52:

2. You are in a part of world where terrorist bombings are a norm, you are enjoying a treat and suddenly you hear a blast, what would you do?

Well i would near i bit more information. There are no parts of the world where i would consider terrorist bombings to be the norm. Even the middle east where its more common calling it the norm would be a stretch.

In most cases i would try to find out what the “blast” means. Is it from an explosion and if yes what kind of explosion. The chances of getting attacked when trying to help while not quite zero are generally low(even less compared to running somewhere else for shelter and getting attacked there). Which makes me likely to try to help. I would leave calling for help to others and focus on organizing the people around me to help.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What would you do?

Originally posted by vikaTae:

Have to agree with Johnny. All rushing in would do is give them two targets instead of one. It wouldn’t change a thing. The smart option would be to use the phone or camera to record the event, paying particular attention to their faces, and the faces of anyone witnessing the event who had come out from a business in the area.

Don’t even try to keep the video on your phone. Cloud-store it immediately. As a stream if possible. So if they do decide to turn on you, the evidence is out of their reach. I don’t think the police here are equipped to handle direct streaming video, but most comp literate people use cloud storage services, and if anything happened to me, it wouldn’t take those who love me long to check if anything was in there.

I can use a Police and Rescue-App made for People with Disabilities(mostly speaking/hearing). I know that it works in most States of Germany (out side of those it will at least connect to Disability-Hotline here in Germany which will then call the Police in question). From what i heard they are currently making one for the European wide 112-Hotline.

If you’re fairly sure of your position, remind them this is all being filmed. Their faces, coupled with the location, are all the cops will need to identify them, or at least trace where they came from via the CCTV network (which happens to be true). Make it easier on themselves and stop now. Or they will be going to jail for GBH, or even murder. Remind them you have their faces on video.

Be prepared at this point with your own self-defense weapon whatever it may be. Don’t even attempt to get involved in the brawl, but be prepared in case one is particularly thick and tries to attack you, as punishment for making the recording. Self-defense only. Don’t use any more force than necessary. Remember it is being recorded, and it would be a bad idea to do anything that might get you convicted of assault yourself.

I agree with most of what you say. You can even threaten to be recording if you don´t have a video service. And it could be smart to throw the Phone away if they attempt to attack you, since they might be more interested in the phone than you.

Only difference is that if i get involved in the Brawl i would likely use maximum disabling force against such a number, if i deem it necessary for my own or my friends survival. When using that there might be a slight risk of permanently injuring or killing, since this includes attacks on sensitive parts like the ears, eyes, balls and throat as well as throws and trips that can be very dangerous on concrete or a similar surface.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / What would you do?

Originally posted by thepunisher52:

On this thread I will post scenarios both fictional and real and ask your opinion about what would have you done in such situation.
You can add your scenarios too.
1. You get a call from a friend who tells you to come at a certain place ASAP.
You get there and see that around a dozen men have surrounded him and beating him like a sack of flour. No bystander is helping and at this reat you are fairly certain that he might be dead or disabled before police arrives.
What would you do?

It would be more in line with the forum rules if you would post what you would do in such a case.


I would make sure that the Police and Rescue services are on their way. Then I would use my phone to make a video of the Men (sending it directly to the police), while trying to vocally stop/distract/threaten the men attacking my friend to scare them off or buy time.

Further actions would depend on how the men/bystanders react and how long the police and rescue services are likely to take to get there.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / When Does A Human Life Begin?

Originally posted by Aleazor:
Originally posted by Nuob:

On that note, another interesting question may be: when does “potential for life” become life?

Why complicate it. An unfertilized egg, and a dry seed, is not alive. A fertilized egg, and a germinating seed, is alive. The DNA of that egg, or seed, is evidence of it’s predetermined course. To destroy a fertilized egg, or germinating seed, ends the development of that organism, and therefore it’s life.
Whether or not a fetus is alive is an argument of semantics among the ignorant. Whether or not human life has value is different question altogether.

Wrong. There are various definitions of life and most disagree (including traditional, scientific and medical).
According to the traditional definitions life begins at birth, this was/is due to the high number of miscarriages and the problem of being aware of the other possible times when life could be defined as having begun.
Scientifically/Medically depending on the definition, fertilization(mixture of DNA) is either not enough or unnecessary. Its either already life before that or not yet life because it lacks growth or an independent metabolism.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / American Government discussion

Originally posted by issendorf:

That one does not make a good case for you. It shows 7% more workers of the total number of adults receiving support, but also 9% that are threatened by eviction as well as 47% that are exempt and 37% that were already working.

Earlier, you said that a welfare work requirement would decrease welfare recipients, but cause an almost equal increase in homelessness and crime. That’s the part I took exception to, and maybe I’m missing it (which is wholly possible), but I’m not seeing that claim reflected in any of the data that’s been produced thus far.

Its just not a magic solution and when handled wrongly does more harm than good.

I’d agree with that.

I said adding a simplistic one would cause that. The data of the one you linked was not simplistic, including both major exceptions as well support projects for getting into jobs, still it threatened more people with homelessness (9%) than it brought into 20+h/w Jobs(7%).

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Atheist forced to go to church

Originally posted by TheBSG:

I think one of my problems with the implication that it’s a philosophical imposition, or imposition of belief to attend church as it includes some sort of ritual smells to me a little like neo-liberal self importance.

The problem here is more that the experience of going to church differs both through personal context as well as the situational contexts of the different churches.
This means that a other Person (myself for example) can experience what you see as just a little taxing (fawning of Jesus) as a major pain in the ass and down right mental torture. It can naturally also differ depending on what Church you go too. This can range from just plain boring over typically annoying to down right insulting.
Likewise any envisioned benefits (for example building up a resistance against mental torture) are also highly subjective both in gain ability and future worth. There are many who forced to attend would just rack up stress and hate points.

To sum it up, acceptability of going to church as an atheist to appease Parents depends on the personal pros and cons, so that a generalized answer is not possible. There are certainly some who could personally even benefit but certainly others for whom it would just not be worth it.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / American Government discussion

Originally posted by issendorf:
The article you linked names many contributing projects that lowered the homelessness. Including projects that undoubtedly waived the work requirement, for example housing first is a project that waives such a requirement as well as others.

That program is for people with disabilities and addiction who probably can’t work.

No. I researched that one thoroughly. It offers housing to more than just those with disabilities and addiction. Its a program that aims at first getting the people stable housing before demanding from them to conquer their problems.

Other instances of public housing being made available with a work requirement have worked without increasing unemployment rates. I found this discussing the program in Chicago, although I’ve never heard of True/Slant, so I have no idea how legit the data inside the article actually is.

That one does not make a good case for you. It shows 7% more workers of the total number of adults receiving support, but also 9% that are threatened by eviction as well as 47% that are exempt and 37% that were already working.
Luckily it seems in this case those responsible for evicting are being sensible and according to the link only rare cases are actually being evicted.
As said i am not against work requirements as such, since they are certainly a part of helping certain people get on their own feet (or at least become more independent). Its just not a magic solution and when handled wrongly does more harm than good.