Recent posts by zz1000zz on Kongregate

Topic: Epic War Saga / Suggestion and Ideas

Originally posted by DCZDavid:

could u teach me how to change the variables? I’d rllly like some 500 crystals.

I don’t promote cheating, so no. However, here’s a fun fact. Nothing about the game’s code forces a player to download new versions when they are released. This means you can play an outdated version as long as you want. At one point, I was power-leveling on 11-1 with it giving me 20k experience, more than a day after that had been fixed. In a sense, I was “cheating” even though I didn’t even know they had changed anything. Even worse, reloading your page won’t affect this. You have to do a “hard refresh” to force the game to get a new version, and if you don’t know how, you have to close out your browser entirely. All without having a way to know a new version exists!

Right now, I’m still using 1.53. 1.54 nerfed tower drop rates, but until I update my version, I can get Epic Stones 20% of the time like everyone could before. And there’s no limit on how long I can keep it up unless artlogic makes changes to the code to fix things.

So here’s a question. Is it “cheating” to use an older version? It’s hard to say yes. After all, if I wasn’t active in discussions of this game, I wouldn’t even know I was using one.

Topic: Epic War Saga / How To Fix Tower Bugs

Glad to!

So, an update on the other Tower bug (where you can’t repair a tower without refreshing first). I checked all the code I could think to check, and none of it seems to explain the bug. In fact, none of it seems like it could explain the bug. As best I can tell, what’s happening is the tower_hp variable is not getting reset when you repair your tower. I say this because the code that determines whether your tower is or is not destroyed is:

clip.tower.destroy.visible = false;
if (DatasaveUSER.tower_level > 0 && DatasaveUSER.tower_hp <= 0)
{
clip.tower.destroy.visible = true;
}

This is in the function, frameHandle. Basically, what happens is for every frame, the game sets “destroy” to false (meaning your tower isn’t destroyed), then it checks to see if your tower’s HP or level are too low. If it finds they are, it sets your tower to “destroyed.” I don’t see anything that could be causing the problem here. So next there’s the code for repairing the tower:

PlayerIOManager.send(“TowerRepair”, repairCostGold);

This is simple and straightforward, and it doesn’t seem like it could be the source of any problems. So as a last heck, here’s the relevant part of the send function:

connection.send(param1, param2, param3, param4, param5, param6, param7, param8, param9, param10);

All ten of those variables default to 0, so it’s effectively nothing more than, “connection.send(”TowerRepair", repairCostGold)". I can’t imagine any reason that should cause problems. This means either I’m missing something fairly simple, or there is an issue on the server end. I’m not sure which it is at the moment, but I have noticed two things that might shed some light on the matter.

First, even when I cannot repair my tower, I can click on the button and spend money. There’s no reason to, and it shouldn’t be possible, but this suggests the server is getting the command. Second, I cannot spend BP in a similar manner. If I click on the button to build using BP, the game gets hung up on the connection screen instead. This suggests the bug is somehow causing problems with the connection with the server.

Anyway, I wish I had more insight into that bug, but with this being a multiplayer game, it’s difficult to test ideas about where problems lie. I will try to look into matters some more though.

Topic: Epic War Saga / Suggestion and Ideas

Originally posted by AJ66:

I’d be more active about bugging them to police the game from cheaters rather than other things. It is ridiculous that we find multiple obvious cheaters every single day only to have the report ignored for… well, going on a month now…

With the new tower thing, it is even MORE imperative for them to police cheaters as that is an added incentive for cheaters to cheat.

Anyone who has chatted with me much about this game knows I agree with this, strongly. This game is completely insecure. For example, I could easily ensure I got 500 Crystals from the Daily Rewards, every day. The reason is almost everything about this game is handled client-side. That means the variables are set and stored on the user’s computer, meaning they can do whatever they want to it. That’s why there are so many problems, and that’s why at least 90% of the cheating in this game could be eliminated if code was ported to the server.

Topic: Epic War Saga / How To Fix Tower Bugs

As many people have noticed, the Tower system has a number of bugs. One of them is the prizes you get from it are supposed to be based on your tower’s level, but they aren’t. Instead, every time you load the game (including when refreshing), the prize level is set to one. Then, any time you attack a tower, your prize level is set to the level of that tower. That means is your tower level has no affect on the rewards you get.

While several of us were talking about this in chat, I suggested a possible explanation. My explanation was the game does not initialize the prize level variable as your tower level when you start the game. Further, I guessed the opponent’s tower level got stored as your prize level because the wrong variable was used. Both of those possibilities are extremely simple, and they’d be easy to fix. That, combined with how annoying the bugginess of Towers is, made me wonder if I was right. Would it really only take a few lines to fix these bugs? I decided to check.

I examined the SWF file, and I quickly confirmed my suspicions. The variable, “tower_lv” gets set to “TowerManager.tower_lv” instead of “DatasaveUSER.tower_level” like it should. Since until you attack an enemy tower, you won’t have any value stored in TowerManager.tower_lv, that ensures you will get the minimum prize level until you attack a tower. And since you’re setting tower_lv to the enemy’s tower level instead of your own, your tower level has no effect.

Fixing this should be incredibly easy. All that needs to be done is to change two lines. In the function, rewardClick, the line:

TowerManager.towerGift(TowerManager.tower_lv, true);

Should be changed to:

TowerManager.towerGift(DatasaveUSER.tower_level, true);

And in the function closeClick, the line:

TowerManager.towerGift(TowerManager.tower_lv, false);

Should be changed to:

TowerManager.towerGift(DatasaveUSER.tower_level, false);

That’s all it would take. You still wouldn’t be able to repair a tower without refreshing (a bug I am working on diagnosing), but you would be able to get the rewards you’re supposed to get.

So, can we get this fixed? It’d go a long way toward making Towers a great addition to this game.

Topic: Epic War Saga / What happens when typical Joe tries to craft Galaxy Sword.

Sadly, I have to admit I haven’t been able to beat 11-6 yet, so I don’t know what chapter 12 has to offer. I’ll wait until I’ve gotten through that chapter before working on any numbers.

Topic: Epic War Saga / What happens when typical Joe tries to craft Galaxy Sword.

I just saw the upgrades this newest version introduced for the Galaxy Sword. I haven’t played all the new levels, but even if you farm 11-6 instead of 10-6 for Epic Stones, gold looks like it is going to be the largest obstacle. But I don’t know, maybe there’s something in chapter 12 that will help ease that some.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by calibur2:

Well zz, as I said I’m offended but I’m not making a big deal about it. You should take a leaf from my book.

I’m not making a big deal of it either. I’m just baffled by you taking offense. I have no idea why it was offensive to you, and that bugs me. I don’t mind offending people. I just hate doing it unintentionally. As Oscar Wilde said:

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone’s feelings unintentionally.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by VforVendetta:

Everyone has their own thing to do that they feel works best for them.
If a book were named “How to win an argument over the internet”, there would only be one page with a single word. And it would say “Impossible.”

Everyone is hell-bent on their own opinion on the internet, I find arguing to be pretty pointless here. This isn’t debate club, or the Presidential Debates, it’s Kongregate.

I mostly just like making combat simulators. I find them interesting to make, and I love trying to work out which strategies work best in them. I especially like trying to apply mathematics to the creation of strategies. For example, I once worked out a system of equations for a tower defense game that allowed me to approximate the best strategies possible. I’m sure I could have figured it out by actually testing different strategies (and it would have been faster), but I thought it was pretty cool.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

On the topic of simulations, I have a question. Does anyone really care about battles simulated versus equally leveled opponents? PvP in this game is practically nonexistent, so it seems silly to me to base one’s build on it. Wouldn’t it be more practical to base our builds on the enemies we’ll actually face?

So here’s an offer, open to anyone. If you give me an idea of something to simulate, I’ll try. You can give me specific situations, including items, or you can just give me a quest, or even just a general concept. Provide me a question you’d like answered, and I’ll do my best to answer it for you.

But quite frankly, as far as the matchups I’ve been able to ensure are fairly handled by my code go, a 0:1:0 build is terrible. Putting some points into defense will almost always increase one’s win rate.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

chaosguard, I’d say if you don’t actually read an exchange, you’re probably not in a position to judge it. For example, you claim I’ve offered “wild conspiracy theories,” but any sensible reading of my posts would never suggest such. All I’ve ever suggested is gust4v3 is wrong in his analysis, and because he refuses to share any information about his work, nobody could possibly verify it. That’s not a conspiracy theory.

Quite frankly, gust4v3 has done absolutely nothing to “[help] us to grow/build with a plan of action.” He has offered absolutely no basis for his posts on the “optimal build.” The only way one can say he has done something helpful is to blindly trust his word as gospel.

If you want to say that I’ve been hating (I haven’t), that I’ve been promoting conspiracy theories (I haven’t), or that gust4v3 has contributed helpful information toward knowing what an optimal build is (he hasn’t), you can. But you’ll be wrong.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by calibur2:

I’m not overreacting. I just said I was offended that you said my memory was inaccurate. You might think its nothing to miffed about, but not everyone shares the same opinion as you. Since I took it as a insult, and since you agreed in your post that it might come off as rude even though you didn’t mean it to, even if it wasn’t an ad hominem it was insulting. You could have just excluded that phrase from your post and your argument would’ve been just as strong, minus the jab to my person. I’m offended, but i’m not going to make a huge deal about it.

That… makes no sense to me. You specifically said, “There are plenty of reasons why [your] “recollection” may not be as good as [you] may think.” How is what I said any different or worse? All I said was, “I don’t think your recollection is as good as you may think.” Our word choice is almost identical! What is there to be offended about if you say the same thing as I said?

Saying that he lied is just one far end of the spectrum and is possibly inadvertently causing gust to take the other end. Either way its nothing to stress about.

I’m not stressed about it, but I also didn’t say gust4v3 lied. People inadvertently make things up all the time. The fact I’ve pointed out the error, combined with the fact he has chosen not to correct it, means he is letting a lie stand, but that’s not the same as lying.

Anyways I hope you two stop arguing, since this thread had pretty much been derailed to hell. I like gust because of the fact you dedicated your time into making this guide, and I appreciate the fact that zz is actually trying to contribute, but but getting hung up on one point isn’t helping anyone other then maybe yourself. And that’s a very very tentative maybe because gust may never ever answer you directly.

Now back to statistics 379 hw…

Edit: And right, like gust said, its your word against ours in terms of the Gaia thing so there’s no real point in even arguing that.

I have no intention or desire to continue on about any of this. Assuming gust4v3 doesn’t keep talking about it, either directly to me, or in snide remarks to other people, the matter will be over. Even better would be if he chose to end it amicably with a single sentence by admitting his original post was wrong. Either way, it would be over. The only way I’ll talk about it more is if he (or someone else) makes a point out of it.

Unfortunately, I don’t think there will any getting “back to statistics” as I don’t think anyone really cares about the matter other than perhaps gust4v3 and me.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Sorry for the triple post, but I want to discuss something on-topic. Namely, what units do you people think we should have battle simulated for? As it stands, I’ve only done mirror matches because I don’t know how to account for all the various things like attack range/area of effect/knockback/stun/etc. However, I figure there are probably other cases I could try where units are similar enough in how they attack that I wouldn’t need to account for such factors. Also, I figure there are some units people care about a lot more than others. I think there are… 68(?) units in total, and I imagine people don’t care about a lot of them.

If I can get some input on those topics, I’ll be happy to try to do more comprehensive simulations.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by gust4v3:

Of course he’ll keep denying that he said A or B, because unless we have a proof (like a print screen), he knows it’s his words against ours.

I’ll happily concede that point the moment anyone shows I actually:

analysed attack/defense/HP individually, and it doesn’t answer the question above.

Like you claim I did. Conversely, I’ll happily drop that point the moment you admit you were wrong to say what you said in that quote.

But as it stands, this entire ordeal started because you claimed I did something I never did. And anyone can go back and look at my comment to see this for themselves. There is no need for a screenshot or anything. All anyone has to do is read one post and see if what you say about it is true.

Of course, if someone finds out what you said in that quote isn’t true, I’d hope they’d be less likely to believe what you say about me now. If you misrepresent something when proof exists, why should people take your word about something when there is no proof?

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by calibur2:

Of course I don’t remember you saying “not good.” That’s why I explicitly didn’t put the words in quotes. Regardless of what you said (as I doubt anyone could prove it), the main point was that you didn’t have a favorable opinion of Gaia and that’s all I was trying to say.

I’m afraid this doesn’t make sense to me. If my comment was Gaia Crusher isn’t great, that in no way implies I have an unfavorable view of it. If I think something is (merely) good, I have a favorable view of it.

As for coming off rude, you managed to do it. Hypocritical since you said you don’t use ad hominems. You could’ve just amended my statement but you had to insult my memory. Not cool man. And the thing is I probably DCed or was playing the game and missed you comparing Ice Blaster to some other spell so I lacked that knowledge in the first place. There are plenty of reasons why me “recollection” may not be as good as I may think.

I think you’re overreacting. You say there "are plenty of reasons why [your] “recollection” may not be as good as" you think. I agree. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having an inaccurate recollection of something. I certainly don’t think it says anything negative about you. And if it doesn’t, it couldn’t possibly be ad hominem.

Could you tell me in what way you think I insulted your memory? You agree your recollection could suffer for a number of reasons, and that’s all I said. As far as I can see, we’re in perfect agreement, yet you’re upset about what I said.

And the thing about debates is that the other person should agree to debate in the first place.

I’d agree if he hadn’t directly made something up about me. Perhaps I could have let that go, but I find it offensive for someone to do that then refuse to admit what they did. Nobody should be allowed to say untrue things about you and “get away with it” just because they then ignore you.

Edit: On a side note, thanks for clarifying the Kholai thing. I was genuinely confused over that subject.

Glad to! By the way, I think it is actually possible for Kholai to kill that boss with one attack. I think it’d take incredibly high levels (like, at least 8,000), but I’m pretty sure it could be done. I may have to work out just what it’d take sometime.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by calibur2:

Actually, I remember you claiming that Gaia was not good too. In fact I remember it quite vividly because I was confused by your claim and tried to figure out exactly why Gaia was bad. I remember you countering someone’s argument that Gaia was good because it gave mana by saying that it ended up giving too much mana if you had other mana giving items.

calibur, do you remember me actually saying the words “not good”? I doubt that. My recollection is I said it was “not great.” As for the mana topic, I said the mana was mostly superfluous as you’d get enough +mana from other items. There’s no reason to go to the Gaia Crusher to get +mana. It’s a nice bonus for if you’re already using it, such as when power-leveling, but it’s not a bonus that should make someone pick it over another weapon.

In that same conversation you also said that Ice Blaster II on SAP was terrible, and Kholai was amazing cause one of his spells could kill 10-6 in one cast (which I questioned you on but you never replied).

I’m not trying to be rude, but I don’t think your recollection is as good as you may think. I’ve never said Ice Blater II is terrible. I may have said something like, it’s terrible at killing 10-6’s boss, or terrible compared to Lilith’s attack (as that one is overpowered), but I love that spell. There is no way I’d ever call it terrible. Heck, with how much I’ve used it for farming, it wouldn’t make any sense for me to say that.

As for Kholai being amazing, I said he’s amazing because he can two-shot the boss of 10-6 with less effort than Lilith. The reason I said that is Lilith and Kholai both need to be about the same level to do that, but the items Lilith needs to do it are harder to get, and Lilith requires a lot of crystals. I actually worked out the math to show that in the very same chat room because people had told me Kholai could do that, and I was surprised.

If you really want me to, I can reproduce the math here, but I don’t think many people will disagree about him being able to two-shot the boss. But to be fair to you, I did sometimes say “one-shot” instead of “two-shot.” I believe I started that because of… trackrockbob? It might not have been him, but whoever told me Kholai could do that used “one-shot.” It caused me some confusion at first, but they explained the reason is you can cast, summon then cast again so quickly it’s basically one action. After that, I sometimes mixed the two phrases up.

As much as I like a good debate, you should at least know when to lay off. Gust obviously didn’t’ want to talk with you by the way he started ignoring you in the first few posts. If gust doesn’t want to discuss, why try to make him? That’s just pointless.

I’d have been happy to “lay off” him. He could have just responded to me by saying, “Oh, you’re right. You didn’t say that. Kholai said it.” That would have ended the conversation right there and then. I’d have still talked about the results he claimed to get, but I wouldn’t have tried to address him anymore. But there is no reason I should let misrepresentations of me stand uncontested. Put simply, he choose to let a lie about me stand. The fact he did so while ignoring me in no way obligates me to “lay off” him.

Perhaps I do “thrive off of debate.” However, I have never attempted to make the discussion a personal one. I have never tried to discredit someone’s remarks by discussing them as a person (which is ad hominem). Instead, I have tried to get misrepresentations fixed and tried to discuss the actual issues this topic is about. Compare that to gust4v3 who has refused to admit an incredibly obvious mistake, and instead keeps insulting me as a person while refusing to discuss the results he claims are correct.

Anyone who knows anything about debates knows you should treat your opponent fairly. What does that tell you about gust4v3?

Topic: Epic War Saga / 5-6 boss

Did somebody really suggest you spend over four million gold in consumables to beat this level?

Mind. Blown.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Interesting update. I tested mirror matches with Twin Diablos, Twin Salamanders and Pegasus Knights. In each case, a 0:3:2 build dominated the 0:1:0 build. Additionally, in each case 0:4:1 was also better than 0:1:0. What this indicates is any case where there is an elemental (or status) penalty and the unit’s Attack Power is below 1, putting some points into Defense will be more effective than putting all points into Attack. Moreover, failing to account for things that modify an attack’s damage will give false results.

Now then, while this covers many matchups, it is in no way exhaustive. There are thousands of matchups, and these results only apply to a fraction of them. Moreover, it’s usefulness in matchups involving different units is questionable due to their being other factors like population size/speed/attack range/area of attack/etc. It also doesn’t rule out the possibility that putting points into HP may be a good idea. And most importantly, it doesn’t consider factors like equipment/spells. Still, what this shows is in a number of cases, builds with some Defense will dominate builds with none if you account for more factors. If you don’t account for them, they won’t.

Of course, how valuable that insight is for a person playing this game is uncertain. The sort of situation described here is not one you’ll ever see in the game.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by inu007:

aszucs, i understand your argument that there are too many variables , scenarios and no one size fits all argument. still, pro gamers have used math in much more complicated games with great success. specifically, i’m thinking blizzard games (starcraft, diablo, WoW) where there are a lot of obsessed pro gamers who use math to come up with the best/optimal strategies/builds. not to trash this wonderful flash game, but it is in no way the most complicated game out there, harder games have been cracked, not sure why you are hating on number crunching. i am not sure why you, or anyone else, is trying to discourage this type of analysis.

As a Starcraft and Diablo player, I can say the math used to make strategies for those games is nowhere near as complicated as that needed for figuring out the optimal builds in this game. The reason is nobody ever tried to figure out an “optimal” build/strategy with math in those games. Instead, we used math to try to determine which builds/strategies were better about specific issues.

As for this sort of analysis, whatever aszucs may think, I think it’s perfectly fine. That’s why I encourage discussion of it. When comparing builds in Diablo (I was far more heavily involved in that series than Starcraft), it was common for people to share their builds, calculations, and sometimes even spreadsheets showing everything they did. That was so we could see what each other did, check their results and offer new ideas. If somebody wants to do that, I’d be happy to. Heck, I’ve already provided code I wrote and offered to write much more if people are interested.

The key to this sort of analysis is to be up-front about uncertainties. You should say what you did, what results you got, what your analysis didn’t include, and how your results might change if you included other factors. If aszucs thinks an analysis that does that is unacceptable, he/she is wrong.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by gust4v3:

@ zz1000zz:
Ok dude, ok… Outsidious is a witness, he confirmed that I’ve said, and still you say I’m making things up.

Ooh. Should I now say I found someone who was there and he confirms you’re wrong? Or maybe I should just get blind-drunk and prove I never type like you claimed I did. Or heck, maybe you could explain how what you claim I did would even be a bad thing when it appears to be exactly what one would hope someone would do.

Or perhaps you could bother to explain how the first thing I said you made up wasn’t completely made up. You seem to have stopped talking about that, but you’ve never once admitted you simply made things up in your first response to me. At the point you make things up in such an obvious manner then refuse to admit it, why should anyone believe your portrayal of what I said?

Seriously, create another topic, make your simulations there and be happy. I don’t have more to say.

Uh… no? I have every right to post in this topic. You can choose to ignore what I’ve said and do nothing to show your simulations have any merit, but that doesn’t mean I have to stop pointing out you’ve done nothing to show your simulations have any merit.

From the very start, I’ve tried to discuss issues with your claimed results. That’s all I’ve ever wanted to discuss. That’s all I want to discuss, even now. The fact you refuse to discuss such issues while making things up about me and trying to force the discussion to be one about me as a person in no way means I need to leave the topic.

Topic: Epic War Saga / What happens when typical Joe tries to craft Galaxy Sword.

Originally posted by Vlax:

Originally posted by zz1000zz:

Hey Vlax, what do you think of spending some time farming 9-6 for Black Matter? I know you can get it as a guaranteed drop in CoT II, but that doesn’t give you any gold. I know you could just farm some other quest for gold instead, but…

It would be 5,000 battles for 176 million with gold gear, or 3,333 + 80 million with item gear. Considering that you get several million over the required gold just farming the other items, plus any extra from the arena then it would be best just sticking with the 400 battles from CoT.

This assumes you’re using all the +Gold items you discuss. Some people may not have those items, or may find they cannot farm efficiently with them equipped. It also assumes you’d get all of your Black Matter from 9-6.

My thought was people may find themselves in a situation where they won’t have enough gold. At that point, they could either farm purely for gold, or they could farm 9-6 to make up whatever gold they need while getting some of the Black Matters they’ll need.

I’m especially looking at people who don’t power-level to 6,000+ before starting farming.

Topic: Epic War Saga / What happens when typical Joe tries to craft Galaxy Sword.

Hey Vlax, what do you think of spending some time farming 9-6 for Black Matter? I know you can get it as a guaranteed drop in CoT II, but that doesn’t give you any gold. I know you could just farm some other quest for gold instead, but…

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by gust4v3:

I’m quoting you just in case if you try to edit your post. You know, people like you would change a lot of things after the replies, just to looks like “rightful”. I’m not giving you that chance.

Um, okay. I didn’t even realize we could go back and edit posts long after they were made. I’m used to message boards only allowing you to edit posts for an hour or so after you make them. But sure, feel free to quote me or take screenshots to ensure I don’t do something there isn’t the slightest chance I’d ever do.

Originally posted by gust4v3:

Oh yeah, my previous post “has been removed by an administrator or moderator”. That’s OK, I’ll rewrite again, but now I won’t give any reason to have my post deleted. Btw, who would flag my post that was a direct answer to zz1000zz? In an obscure math guide? Hum… I guess someone did not like my answer.

Yes, clearly someone is out to get you. It’s not just that someone saw you broke the rules and marked your post as such. It’s not that someone happens to believe following the rules is something we should all do. I clearly was just so afraid of this:

My deleted post was:
What a surprise, now you’re denying that you said that (to zz1000zz). Of course, because you know that would be “your word” against mine. As Outsidious also pointed out, you actually said that. Besides, in my deleted post, I mentioned that you also said you’re drunk at the moment. It’s funny to see a drunk guy that remember everything he says, you must be a genius (I wrote the F word between the “a” and “genius” in my previous post). Most people don’t remember anything when they’re drunk (I wrote the s… word instead “anything”, in my previous post).

Too bad that I have an above-average memory and I can remember these trivial things (like this answer, that is the same as the original one, except 2 words), and if I do not, it’s because I’m drunk.

Oh wait, I wasn’t…

There were plenty of people in the room at the time of the conversation. There were several other people I was chatting with in other rooms (game chat/private chat). Any of them could verify my typing style did not change. As such, even if I couldn’t remember what I had said, I would still know your quotes were fabricated. But beyond that, you’re nuts if you believe:

Most people don’t remember anything when they’re drunk

Being drunk doesn’t mean being black-out drunk. Many people drink to the point where they’re drunk without ever reaching the point where they can’t remember things.

So yes, I was so afraid of this post which adds nothing more to the conversation than, “You were drunk!” and a bunch of posturing. I mean, I put forth the effort to write code to demonstrate the point I’ve argued in this topic, hoping to provoke an actual discussion of a real topic, but I’m afraid of someone saying he’s awesome and I’m not.

Topic: Epic War Saga / What happens when typical Joe tries to craft Galaxy Sword.

Originally posted by hakusho83:

Actually I think the most annoy thing is not to farm gold but to buy silver sword, just imagine how many silver sword you have to buy one by one

Oh god yes.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

By the way, can anyone explain to me how this is supposed to be a bad thing:

Originally posted by gust4v3:

In the game’s chat, when people were talking about Gaia crusher, you said (and I’m quoting you): “gaia crusher isn’t good”. Then, we tried to argue otherwise, then you said “ah ok. Gaia isn’t that good”.

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume these quotes aren’t fabrications (they are). What do they show? First, I say Gaia Crusher isn’t a good item. People argue that point. In response to their arguments, I change my stance to a weaker one. In other words, after listening to other people’s views, I soften my stance.

Isn’t that a good sign? How it is bad for me to change my opinion after listening to other people’s arguments? And how in the world could it be used to conclude:

Sure, because it’s the true, isn’t it? Because you’re never wrong, right?

If I change my opinion, that means I think my old opinion was wrong (at least in part). That means gust4v3 is snidely suggesting I think I am never wrong because I am willing to change my opinion when I’m presented things that make me think I’m wrong… Can anyone explain that to me? I mean, the quotes are fabrications so I’m not sure it matters, but what about this supposed exchange is supposed to paint me in a negative light?

By the way, I did have a discussion about the Gaia Crusher, and I did say it is not that good an item. Around the same time, conversation had covered items like EB IIIs and DSLs. I said the Gaia Crusher is useful for a few particular things (such as power leveling after rebirth), but overall, the item is not that impressive. I understand reasonable people may disagree with me, but I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable about that position.

I’m mostly explaining this so people know that while those quotes are fabricated, they are referencing a discussion that actually happened. They are not actual quotes, and they do not accurately represent what was said, but it’s not as though gust4v3 pulled them completely out of thin air.

Topic: Epic War Saga / [Guide] Math Strategies

Originally posted by gust4v3:

See? It’s pointless to try to argue with you, “proud people breed sad sorrows for themselves”. And I can assure you that I’m not the only one who think you’re an asshole.

“The true is the truth”? Really? Define what is truth. As I can imagine, your definition of true is: “whatever I say”. Am I joking? No.

I wish you were joking because what you just said is unbelievable otherwise:

In the game’s chat, when people were talking about Gaia crusher, you said (and I’m quoting you): “gaia crusher isn’t good”. Then, we tried to argue otherwise, then you said “ah ok. Gaia isn’t that good”. Sure, because it’s the true, isn’t it? Because you’re never wrong, right? Besides, I bet you don’t even have a gaia crusher to state that. But hey… you’re God, you know everything, you’re never wrong.

Despite claiming to be quoting me, I did not say that. You are now fabricating quotes. I would never say “gaia crusher isn’t good.” First off, I don’t believe that. Second, I always capitalize proper nouns. Anyone who has seen me in game chat could tell you I wouldn’t type “gaia crusher.” Also, I wouldn’t have typed “ah ok. Gaia isn’t that good” as I capitalize the first letter of sentences, refer to items by their full names or acronyms, and could not possibly have used italics in the chat room.

Of course, I cannot prove I never said those things. That would be impossible to do. However, people are presented with a simple decision. They can believe an insult you level against me without any basis other than your word. They can take your word as the truth when you claim to provide quotes from me that are completely out of my character. Or, they can believe you’re falsely claiming to quote me.

And, of course, you’ll reply again, saying “you said something wrong about me, blablablabla”, the same bullshit as before. After all, “the truth is the truth”.

The truth is the truth. Anyone can see your initial response to me in this thread misrepresented me as I hadn’t analyzed any stat in my post, much less “analysed attack/defense/HP individually.” And now, anyone can see you’re claiming to quote me saying things in a manner unlike anything I’ve ever been seen to say.

You apparently have some personal issues with me, and I don’t know what caused them, but no matter how you may feel about me, you should not say things about me which are untrue. And if you are going to say untrue things, you should at least make it less obvious that you are.