Recent posts by vikaTae on Kongregate

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

Originally posted by wargamer1000:

Even if Person A didn’t believe he was picked up by policemen and pretended it was a machine that took him, he was still placed into an interrogation room.

This is the problem with your analogy. Nothing picked the person up and took them to an interrogation room. If they were walking down the street before, they were walking down the street during and after the “pickup”. No sensory feedback, no change of scenery, of position, nothing. No evidence that anything transpired in any way, shape or form. So, nothing did transpire.

There are reasons to necessitate His existence, and reasons to negate that as well.

there are reasons to necessitate the existence of Odin, the existence of Thor, the existence of Loki, the existence of Ra. The existence of Set, the existence of Para Brahman, the existence of Yog-Soggoth, the existence of Cthulhu, the existence of the Creeping Crawling Chaos, the existence of the Shoggoth Lords.

However, by your own logic, we must assume that each and every one of these exists, and is interested in us personally. That at any time any of them will judge us, and if we don’t pass their test, then we are in deep, and permanent shit. Thus it is imperitive that we are dedicated, devoted followers of every single one of them, yes?

Everything that you experienced now exist, correct?

Incorrect. Something doesn’t have to exist, in order to provide you with sensory feedback indicating it exists. Anything from a gap in the myelin sheaths to a damaged axon, to a deliberate falsification of sensory data can and will cause data to be processed by your brain from something that was never there to begin with.

From that point, can something that didn’t exist necessitate and force itself to exist?

There are theories that suggest the possibility of spontaneous matter creation, yes.

Have a second link simplifying the same concept.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Ebola

Originally posted by Thegamer211:

We are not going to die. The victims die too fast to infect other people.

A cough or sneeze will still carry the pathogen, and the primary concern is whatever surfaces they touched after symptoms started to show. A doorhandle, a countertop, a coffeemug. A report printout, a computer keyboard. Banknotes or a credit card.

Anything they have physically touched will carry the living pathogen for hours afterwards, and anyone else who touches those items within that timeframe, will expose themselves to it. This is the primary vector of infection, and is what makes ebola such a concern in modern urban environments. It is quite capable of continuing to infect after its host has died, via surfaces and items that still carry it.

For example, a person who is starting to show symptoms, walks into a newsagent, and buys a paper. They pay cash, handling the cash with their hands. The clerk takes the cash with their hands, becoming infected but not yet infectious. The cash sits in the register for an hour, after which some of it is removed and given to another customer as change. Both the clerk and the customer handle the change, transferring the pathogen to a third person. At most, two weeks later, both the clerk and the second customer have manifested symptoms of ebola and become infectious.

We still need an vaccine, it is going to kill more and affect economy and tourism.

There is a treatment available at the moment, although a vaccine is a long way off. The main problem is that the incubation period is relatively long, so we see periodic resurgance as each group of infectees completes the incubation cycle. However, the trend is definitely towards a decline of the outbreak. It looks like most infected countries have a handle on it now.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

Originally posted by wargamer1000:

The analogy rather should be comparable to this: Suppose person A was placed at an interrogation room, in the room there is a one-way mirror such that the police chief sees person A from outside the room however person A sees only a reflection of himself. The police chief judges person A so, but person A does not necessarily know why he was arrested and placed into interrogation. This is, I think, the relationship between God and Man.

Not in the case of an atheist. From that perspective, the interrogation room does not exist. In your example, the police would be servants of god – angels. Since the athest does not believe angels exist, the angels never picked up the person. Since the police station does not exist, the person is not sitting in an interrogation room in one.

The only things that do exist in such a worldview, are churches. Run by humans, offering prayers and begging assistance from something that simply does not exist. The worshippers might just as well have an effagy of Harry Potter or Freddy Kruger and pray to that, for all the good it does them. There exists absolutely no evidence whatsoever that your chief of police is out there.

Originally posted by DanielMontgomery:

In essence Stephen Hawking is saying that the universe has not been around forever. He asserts that the Big Bang at one point was infinitely and singularity dense to the point where physics did not apply. That said what created the conditions for the big bang?

That is where theoretical physicists like Stephen Hawking and others say that a being such as a God was likely involved.

That’s not what he’s saying at all. Rather he’s saying there are numerous theories that have been proposed and ultimately discarded for what occurred to set the big bang in motion. and ultimately the conditions before the big bang that led up to it, are not observable, as the big bang itself is when what we understand to be time, began.

Adding a god into the equation to set off the big bang, answers nothing and adds a completely unneccessary level of complexity. You are literally adding additional variables into the system arbitrarilly, and making things even more complicated than they already are, for no productive reason.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

Originally posted by wargamer1000:

Well, couldn’t I say too towards atheism that in their gamble proves nonetheless futile? Hence more so ‘wasteful’? There might no definite degree how God might judge you but surely among a near indefinite amount of many faiths

If you’re an atheist towards that god, you literally don’t believe that god exists. So what does it matter what an entity that simply doesn’t even exist, thinks of you?

It’s like saying Harry Potter thinks little of you. Considering Harry is an entirely fictional character, what relevance is it to your life, what someone is claiming he thinks about you?

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Should intelligent animals be given more rights?????????

Originally posted by tenco1 (undefined):

Anyway, since Vika already brought this up, you know you can actually become allergic to red meat?

Another fun one is egg. Literally cannot have egg or anything made with egg. Some drugs such as the flu vaccine for example, are passed through eggs as part of the sterilization process and this makes those injections a no-no.

Not to mention that there are video records of people not throwing up after eating more than a fingertip-full of of human (If I remember correctly, there was a show where two people were dared to each part of each other, and they did).

Adding a little crudity to the discussion, consider blowjobs. Anyone who takes a male’s equipment into their mouth and swallows the result, is consuming human tissue. Yet, the only gag response this produces is in response to the male’s equipment blocking the throat, not what comes out of it a little later on.

It is also worth noting that the stomach can if there is a serious problem with it, be removed, without affecting the digestion process. You have to be more careful about what you take in as the stomach does provide a defensive response in breaking down whatever it is given, and killing (most) any living tissue included in that. However, the actual digestion itself only occurs after the slurry has left the stomach behind – by the walls of the small intestine. As tenco points out, it is only once compounds cross into the blood from the intestine that they are subject to the mercy of the immune system, and any surviving fragments of DNA don’t make the crossing.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / if ...

Broken up to reunited in four hours? This isn’t exactly a mature, long-lasting relationship on either side by the sounds of it.

Long-distance relationships can work, but they require commitment & maturity on both sides, as well as looking to eventually be together (again). There are aids that can make it a bit more bearable if you are willing to spend the money, whilst you wait to be physically together, but, again due to capital investment, they require a certain level of maturity on the part of the lovers.

Right now, I’m not seeing any sign of that maturity here. From my perspective it looks like a standard teenage angst ‘love’ thing. Where the status of the relationship changes radically from week to week, or even day to day.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / if ...

Just write your thoughts down Frosty. Hold nothing back. The very act of getting it out of your head will in itself be cathartic.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Should intelligent animals be given more rights?????????

Originally posted by Novellean:
IIRC in the US they don’t give organs or appendages to patients/amputees anymore. I think it is because the selling of human parts is illegal(grandfathered parts can be).

It’s more because if the limb has had to have been amputated it was either extremely badly diseased tissue, or so badly mangled/crushed as to be unusable. In both cases it is treated as hazardous medical waste and incinerated.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Why are you Atheist?

Originally posted by FrostyGhosts:

I’m done with god… He… Pfffffffffff

Minor quibble: That’s not athiesm. You still believe he exists, you just don’t like him any more.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Should intelligent animals be given more rights?????????

Originally posted by Novellean:

Without too many dets… I have tasted human flesh. I wouldn’t say its like veal either. And no it wasnt in some sick ritual or any nefarious thing. Also, when you eat human, your stomach rejects it. You don’t have to sickened by the thought of eating it, but you reflux(not necessarily vomiting). Even from the a tiny piece. Which is to be expected. The body knows human, and foreign dna being in it.

Not to add to the pile of other posters who have refuted various parts of your argument or anything… but the stomach doesn’t work like that. The only reason your body rejects foreign DNA is because it is identified and attacked by your immune system. The immune system doesn’t function in your stomach, for what I would hope are obvious reasons. Namely that gastric acid produced by the stomach would dissolve any immune cell in there, and of course, if it targeted food in the stomach, you wouldn’t be able to eat anything without your body rejecting it.

The only reason you threw up after eating it was because you made yourself throw up.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Insightful Quotes

One that I have always found particularly insightful, is the following:

“For some who are barely seen, a mediated life is a better life than the one they would have otherwise.” -Howard Rheingold

In context, he was referring to how the use of augmenting technology (VR in that specific case) to give an individual a better quality of life than they otherwise have, is still worthwhile even if the quality of life they now have seems pitiful to an outsider precisely because it is a step above what they otherwise had available.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Torture is hell.
WAR is hell.
Please tell me where one ends and the other begins.

I would say when the aggressive party is not in any danger from the party they are about to physically or psychologically damage, then it is torture rather than war. Additionally for it to be torture the damage must be ongoing.

It is not torture to punch a random stranger in the face. It is torture to keep on punching them over and over and over, long after they have given up any resistance.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

All of our behavior is informed by ideals. “I am hungry. A meal would be ideal.


That’s a turn of phrase used to express an immediate need. A biological need is not the same thing at all as an ideal.

“If you were hungry, would you eat dirt?”

Biological need in cases of extreme hunger. Same as above if a very extreme example. It’s a need, not an ideal.

What if there’s a reasonable alternative… a plate of dirt next to a bowl of chicken soup? What’s the relevant ideal you’re invoking while making this decision?

Biological need for sustenance, nervous system weighing up which contains what nutrients, which tastes subjectively better, and what nutrients you really need right now. Again, biological need based reasoning, not related to an ideal.

Would you kill someone to eat? What’s the ideal you’re invoking?

Biological imperative in cases of extreme starvation. Yet again, it’s a need for any source of sustenance on the brink of resource exhaustion.

Would you push someone out of a life raft so that you can climb in? What’s the ideal you’re invoking?

Panic, by the sounds of the scenario. Biological instinctual behavior. Same reason when reaching for a drowning person you use an object in your hand you can let go of rather than your hand itself – they’ll grab and yank instinctively. Again, it is a base biological process, albeit of a different kind. It has nothing to do with ideals, which are abstract, higher thought processes. As such they always come into consideration as the last link in the thought chain, and not the first.

Ideals are critical for informing our decision-making and without ideals we would flounder without direction.

The first part is true, although they’re not critical, just beneficial. Without ideals we would still have instinctual behaviors and biological needs. We would still have autonomic processes, and reflex behaviors. Heck we would still have much of our abstract thought capacity. There are plenty of levels of direction and control below the level of an ideal.

You haven’t given a single example of an ideal in the above. Pacificm in the paragraphs below that last quote is literally the first ideal you have referenced in your entire rant.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
Originally posted by petesahooligan:


If torture doesn’t work, then it doesn’t work.

And, if it does, then it does.
Until someone shows me that the former is true, I’ll keep an open mind about the latter.

Errors of Recall and Credibility: Can Omissions and Discrepancies in Successive Statements Reasonably be Said to Undermine Credibility of Testimony? (PDF)
Page six gives a good relatively layperson’s overview of the effect of torture on cognitive processes, particularly memory recall. But the whole document serves as a quite good overview of the processes that affect memory formation and retrieval, the types of memory and how forced recall methods can quite severely damage it in different ways – you’re literally destroying the information you wish to retrieve in several cases.

Trauma-related and neutral false memories in war-induced Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PDF)
This one’s quite a bit more in-depth and combat oriented rather than specific to torture but covers quite accurately how a deeply traumatic experience will alter the structure of engrams in the brain. Since the very act of recalling a memory makes it open for new associations to be added into it, it is not surprising that information accessed during torture will change, sometimes quite radically, as the torture progresses forward. The trauma of the torture is quite literally rewriting the desired memories.

You can’t trust a tortured brain: Neuroscience discredits coercive interrogation
A tl;dr press release saying the same thing as the above papers. Included basically, for those whom the two papers are far, far too much reading.
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

Well, if we torture to get significant answers, why shouldn’t we torture to get insignificant ones?

I’m going to torture people when I need to know what time it is.

It is always going to be possible for a reasonably fit, able bodied adult to snap the neck of any small child they encounter whilst out and about. Short of getting rid of all small children, this is unavoidable.

So, do you relish the feeling of their neck bones separating under your fingers each day? Did you feel good when you relieved that four year old girl of her mortal existence yesterday? Do you grab babies out of prams and throw them into traffic for a laugh every time you see one?

If you follow your own argument from above, that because it always can be done, means it always must be done, then you murder children each and every time you encounter one.

Does that sound remotely logical, or even sane to you?


In other words, just because something can be done, it does not follow that it must be done, or even should be done.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Darren Wilson a murderer.

UBER won’t work for a bus. I said that before. You’re going from the same location on A street to the same location on B street every time. You’ll do it whether the vehicle is full, or empty. You’ll always leave at the same time of day, and you’ll always arrive at or before the same time of day. You’ll always charge the same amount for the trip.

How is plugging those details into UBER going to help anything?

A transportation service tailored for low-income communities would present a challenging business model.

And yet, all non-American countries manage it. I realise it is total heresy, but ever think there might be something to their methods?

Oh, and meals on wheels isn’t a bus service. It’s a delivery service.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Why should we simply torture everyone? Since you’ve made the leap that because something is always going to be possible, that means we should always do it, I trust you won’t mind explaining your reasoning?

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Darren Wilson a murderer.

That doesn’t solve anything though. UBER is just for private hire. It doesn’t address private bus services.

In theory I could go get an old van from a breaker’s yard, gut it, bring it up to spec, put seats in it, add seatbelts, and start a private company to haul anyone located at A to B at designated times of the day. It’s a very simple, fundamental business model that anyone could easily set up. Hence why busses exist even in the remote wilds of undeveloped central Asia.

It’s obviously not one that can be developed in these neighborhoods however, or someone would have done so by now. So my question again, is what is stopping this from happening? Why is even a private car carting different families’ kids to and from school at a certain time of day, not possible? Why are bus companies of any description in poor neighborhoods not popping up?

What. Is. Stopping. Them?

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

We will uninvent torture, rendering it impossible! Problem solved!

Not going to be possible, sadly. All it is fundamentally is deconstructing a sentient machine whilst that machine is still in operation. Soiling the input to create the desired output, and breaking down inner defense mechanisms.

To make it impossible, you’d have to uninvent sentient minds, which truly would be a case of the cure being worse than the disease. In theory you would be able to torture any sentient, self-aware mind regardless of embodiment. The question is why you would.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

If a kidnapper had my child, I would get in my time machine and travel to Babylonia.

Could you give me a tow with your time machine? Well, more specifically me and my refitted kilometer-long oil tanker carrying enough material and equipment to make a high-technological society possible without access to an existing industrial base other than that on board the tanker?

No need to wait for us for the return trip. We’ll make our own way.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Darren Wilson a murderer.

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

It’s an interesting proposition, vikaTae. It’s a very tea-partian philosophy; reduce governmental programs and allow private enterprise to flourish in the vacated space. Transit is a good example but unfortunately the factors are unique to transit. Still… let’s give it a shot.<

Now you and Karma have quite finished villifying me with a political ideology I don’t possess, we can try this again.

In the UK, most public transport saervices are run by private companies with government oversight and regulation. Thamesway can be found all over the frigging country, from John O’Groats at the northern tip of Scotland to Land’s End at the southern tip of England. But they compete alongside innumerable other bus services of all shapes and sizes. From massive great double-decker 40 foot long monstrosities, to tiny 8-seater converted vans.

What I’m asking is what is stopping a random person from buying a van, converting it into a bus, and offering a regular, every-day bus service from certain stops to school, and then back again in the evening? It’s a very profitable time of day, and here some businesses specialise in doing exactly that. Gets the kids from A to B much more safely and reliably, and lets them cross territory otherwise too dangerous for them.

Obviously something stops the same sort of service being set up in the neighborhoods you work with. Are the restrictions too tight? Is the level of health and safety required too demanding? Mandatory insurance too high? What stops these services from forming?

Their lack is frankly weird, as impromptu bus services are a ubiquitous sight, in both the first and third world. Why not there?

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Topic: Serious Discussion / The Sexodus

Originally posted by dd790:
I feel sorry for you. Maybe as vikaTae is a little more open minded than you she can explain some of this to you.

Explain a very different viewpoint to Karma? I’m not sure my linguistic skill is up to that task!

But you’re certainly right here, dd. I’d label those positions and outfits as Dommes, or Alpha Female positions and ensembles. “I’m in charge of this situation, I’m telling you where this goes”.

A sub typically wears loose clothing usually silk. (Worst material in the universe is silk. I swear it is quasi-sentient as it rides halfway up your back given the slightest movement, and bunches into any crevice it can find seeming of its own will.) Sometimes wool, or synthetics, but the point is to allow your private bits to be easily accessed by any hand that wishes to. Submissive clothing that doesn’t do that ois designed to constrict the body, to force it int a painful position and hold it there – whole body thick rubber is a good example. The depictations on the shirt match neither.

What’s always worth bearing in mind and often seems to get lost in these conversations is that women aren’t a group-think hivemind, any more than all men think the same about everything. There are vast differences of opinion and frequent conflicts. What one woman will be perfectly fine with, another is bound to take offence at.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Serious Nonsense

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

I am the way and the truth and the Nexus. No one goes to Heaven except through me.

I like those possibilities. Hang on, let me see if I can get an old sword…

Don’t forget class warfare and how, in truth, the bottom & middle classes are POW’s.

POWs? Not in my back yard, they’re not. They can move the camp somewhere far away, and screen it with trees.

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Now from the government! Pay per mile!

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:
This begs the question of: these bays are within easy walking distances of their homes?

If the person has mobility issues that prevent them from walking far, it’s going to be quite easy to leverage the Disability Discrimination Act even with the most stubborn of council officials, and have one installed in the user’s own driveway, or in a Disabled parking space right outside their own home.

For most driveways, chances are the adapters are sold by the car manufacturers, and you can just plug them into your home grid.

Originally posted by SWATLLAMA:

Isn’t it possible to change the odometer reading, to perform a “reset” of sorts?

True, but you’d better be careful to get the numbers looking realistic, otherwise you’ve set yourself up for an investigation. Very probably also a rather large fine if discrepancies are indeed found. Scratches in the odometer’s case for instance, or the serial number not matching up with the car.

Then you get the fun of explaining to your insurance company why this issue occurred…

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Torture, Its Legality and its effectiveness,

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Not all, a very few are quite resolute and will manage to endure the torture.

Not for any longer than a week or two at absoulte most. Eventually, everyone breaks. After that, even if they donm’t have this information, they’ll invent something that sounds a lot like it, to please you and get the torture to stop.

That’s why torture’s worthless as an investigative tool. you get answers, but it’s impossible to tell answers that have been fabricated from answers that the person knew before this process started. In both cases, the person now truly believes them, and memory is a finnicky beast at best.

The CIA’s methods, while “not pleasant”, certainly don’t utilized burning bamboo splinters under the fingernails, electrically frying their “junk”, pulling teeth w/ rusty pliers.

Doesn’t need to. All it needs to do is psychologically torture over an extended period until the mind breaks. Even the old water drip method will see success eventually.

Do you want (from the Opinion Line in my paper this morning): Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s idea of interrogation is to take the terrorists to IHOP and visit with them over coffee and pancakes. The blueberry pancakes are especially truth rendering.

Truth serum in the food? Unreliable, not least because you have no control over the dosage. But if it’s just normal food, it sounds like bribery. Tempting them with a lifestyle they’ve never had before. Reward based punishment is always going to be more effective, as then you can deny something pleasant they wish to have.

If a kidnapper has your child;
says it is in a place that would never be found;
says it will likely die of thirst within a week.

Now, you and you alone (no police…I don’t care how you managed to captured him) have this guy at a place where screams and the Jehovah Witness’s aren’t a problem. What limits would you observe in your efforts to find your child? Additionally, what would you do to that man were 2 weeks to have passed and you didn’t have a parent’s blind hope that your child was still alive?

Personally? He tortured and murdered a child. One of those people. If I thought the police would prosecute him, I’d hand him over. But all too often they let pedophiles live out their lives in neighborhoods; health and safety law says they need to be protected for their own safety, and all too often there’s no room for them in equipped prisons.

So, if I was certain I could keep him alive through the process I’d disassemble him and stick the naked brain in a jar. But not to extract information. Simply primal hatred. I have great difficulty looking someone in the eyes and killing them. But, if the eyes aren’t in there any more? If the face is gone, and so is the front of the skull, tossed over in a pile with the arms, legs, sexual equipment, much of the colon, stomach, one of the lungs… Could I kill what is left, without shying away, that I don’t know. But it would be interesting to find out.

Torture does not work to extract information that is going to be accurate. By the time he’s broken everything’s mangled inside his mind anyway.

Would you then finally begin torture to at least confirm the death of your child and be able to retrieve the body? Then, upon proof of death, what would you do to him?

Nothing can be done at that point. No way to revive the child; they’ve been too long dead.