Recent posts by saybox on Kongregate

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by NineFiveThree:

I mentioned that having a certain mindset and writing a tutorial/teaching are totally independent things, so I cannot agree.

http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/flash-and-actionscript-911/
http://active.tutsplus.com/sessions/as3-101/

2 exampes of good tutorials, easy to understand, great for beginners.

Neither of those tutorials solve the problems I was talking about. Not sure if you didn’t read my post properly or if I didn’t explain well enough :P

Topic: Kongregate / K+ and I just saw an Ad before a Game

Flagging games with user added pregame ads rarely seems to get them removed. I’ve seen several devs who always use CPMStar ads, but the games haevn’t been removed.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by NineFiveThree:

Originally posted by saybox:

“onpress” looks logical to someone starting out in programming, because its so simple.

Again: programming does not end with buttons.

Again: that doesn’t matter. If someone struggles to make a button, they’ll give up there and then. You’re still focusing on different approaches, potential other stuff they might be programming, code “logic”, etc. It’s totally irrelevant. For someone to make a solid start in a language they need something simple, and achieveable, that they can see results from immediately.

Have you ever taken a beginner class in a foreign language? You learn basic words before you learn the grammar.

How about math class? How many students are taught trigonometry before addition? None, because they’d find it almost impossible, and most would just give up there and then.

What about learning to drive? Which are you taught first, driving on the freeway, or how to start the engine, put the car in first, and drive forwards on an empty road?

AS3 doesn’t have good tutorials, because they’re all written by people following your mindset of teaching perfect coding standards, at the expense of simplicity or ease of understanding. It needs tutorials on “how 2 maek button game” and “make a maez game in one easy steps”, and they need to be written for beginners to follow, not for pros to debate over. Without them, people will stay with AS2, which does have tutorials like that.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by GameBuilder15:

Why are they “stupid conspiracy theories”? Because that’s what the media calls them? It’s ok to get injected with mercury?

Although the use of mercury in vaccines is a pretty interesting debate (although not as clear cut as “being injected with mercury”), I have yet to see any evidence for any of the other things you post about, such as “Big Brother” secretly holding the cure for cancer and choosing to make people ill instead, or Obama preparing to take military control over the States.

Here’s an actual, real, true fact about anxiety for you: if you train your brain to be anxious, you find more things to be anxious about. You can “learn” anxiety by practicing it, just like you can learn anything else with enough practice. You can also unlearn it, which is the core of CBT / ERP therapies (the most effective treatment there is for most types of anxiety).

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by Draco18s:

Sure, it takes more lines to make a button, but those event listeners are far and away more logical than onPress and onRelease.

Logical from a programming point of view, sure.

Logical to a beginning programmer, nope.

“onpress” looks logical to someone starting out in programming, because its so simple.

A new programmer just wants to make a few buttons and finish a basic game. They don’t need to know all the alternative approaches, or the execution times or anything else.

Start writing tutorials that cover things as a new programmer wants to approach them and you’ll see more people wanting to switch to AS3.

Originally posted by GameBuilder15:

And I’m so sorry about your dad. Btw did you know that there are cures for cancer but Big Brother banned them because they work? At least in USA. Big Brother endorses the stuff that causes cancer, and then pretends “Oh no the poor sheeple with cancer,” and then the sheeple go to Roswell Park.

You’re more likely to have anxiety problems because you sit there believing in stupid conspiracy theories than because of a doctor supposedly poisoning you. Wake up.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by Senekis93:
lack of logic

Only from a programmer’s point of view, though.

You’re apparently an exception – though there’s a saying that ‘the convert is the biggest enthusiast’, and you still didn’t start with AS3 – but even if the Programming forum here is the only place you ever talk to newer programmers, the fact that so many of them struggle to get anything done at all in AS3, but manage a few games in AS2 should tell you that there’s a gap between the language in terms of difficulty.

In general AS2 is a much easier language to teach, and to learn, simply because you’re up and running in like one line of code. The difference between making a button in AS3, and using a typical AS1/2 mashup, is several lines of code, and those several extra lines make the difference between “hey this looks easy” and “what am I looking at?”. Someone new will generally find onPress { do stuff } way more logical than adding an event listener and a function. It leaves things clear for them to get the hang of variables and conditions much more simply, and they can move up to better programming practices as they start to understand them.

The point right from the start was that AS2 is an acceptable option for people who struggle to get started with AS3, and it’s still true. Flash Player supports it, and players don’t care.

Btw if mushroom Madness lags your PC, I’d assume you’re gonna struggle with some of the new 3D games that are on the way. Does that mean AS3 sucks as well?

Topic: Kongregate / greatest kongregate members award

My votes:

Best GameMaker: kupo707
Best Game: Epic Battle Fantasy 3
Friendliest User: MrGravy
Biggest Troll: Tecnoturc
Best Mod: VforVendetta

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by Senekis93:
AS3 isn’t harder than AS2, unless by harder you mean “more logical”. This makes the “use AS2 if you’re too dumb to use AS3” argument void.

Originally posted by qwerberberber:

Have you ever used any language other than ECMA languages? Have you even touched compiled languages? Do you even have an idea of what native code runs like?

Those two posts pretty much sum up the problem many of the AS3 coders here have.

You guys are completely clueless about how a new programmer sees things, and apparently unable to comprehend that most people don’t have the programming background you do.

This is probably also why most AS3 tutorials right now suck, despite NineFiveThree’s opinion on them. They’re being written for the wrong audience, because the AS3 pros don’t really understand who’ll be reading them.

Without a programming background, AS2 is still easier for a new programmer to pick up. Your idea of what’s “logical” in a language isn’t the same as someone just starting programming.

Nobody said that AS2 was an overall better language, but you guys seem determined that it’s not allowed to suit anyone, no matter what the reason for it, and that’s a pretty closed minded approach to anything, never mind something as simple as choosing a programming language.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by qwerberberber:

Stop mentioning the quality of the code, that’s not what we are talking about.

Are you saying that you can push 80000 particles for a fireworks game in AS2?

Are you saying GB’s game has 80,000 firework particles on screen at one time at any point?

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by qwerberberber:

Yes it was. Same p-code of GB’s game ported to AS3 would have performance increase.

Not hard to tell what version ur using.

Not hard to tell who isn’t reading my posts properly.

Unless you’re trying to say that GB is a brilliant coder who was pushing AS2 to it’s limits, then a switch to AS3 isn’t going to fix the underlying problems in his game. The fact that using a more powerful language might compensate for inefficient coding doesn’t make the code any better, it would just allow him to get away with more inefficient programming.

Fact 1: A game like Mushroom Madness 3 puts way more on screen at one time than GB’s game did.
Fact 2: Mushroom Madness 3 doesn’t lag.
Fact 3: Both games are AS2.

Your solution is that the game that puts less on screen, uses more basic graphics, and contains less content, needed to be written in a more powerful programming language…..?

I don’t care enough to decompile GB’s game and look for other possible causes of lag, but there are plenty of simple things that can make games lag, from arrays that get too big, to unoptimized graphics. Yeah, a faster language would improve performance, but so would a faster PC, it’s still not the best solution if it’s the code that’s causing the lag.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by qwerberberber:

AS2 shooter games that run just fine with more on screen.

not enough entities.

Games like the Mushroom Madness series (AS2) run fine with more onscreen than GBs game has when it starts lagging. I don’t think the AS version was the problem there.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by Senekis93:

Originally posted by saybox:

I don’t think anyone in the thread said AS2 was overall better

That wasn’t the issue. You said that players don’t care about the language as long as it runs, I used GB’s game as an example of how they care. His game could have 20x the ammount of plays and maybe an extra star if it didn’t cause lag as soon as you start shooting.

You’re also trying to defend a language based on what some people have done with it (and you just did again in the last reply). Even if GB was the world’s most famous developer, that wouldn’t justify suggesting the use of AS2 to a newcomer or even considering it an option at this point.

The lag in that one particular game of his is more likely to be because of horrible coding, since you don’t have to look far to find other AS2 shooter games that run just fine with more on screen. Maybe it would still run better in AS3 but I’m not sure that the idea of switching to AS3 is to hide bad programming techniques.

His original post in the thread was that AS3 is what a newcomer should be learning if they’re capable of it, but AS2 works okay if not. There’s nothing wrong with a statement like that. AS2 games will run on any Flash capable device, and players don’t care about anything else.

Oh and I’m defending the language based on what’s possible to do with it because that’s the only thing that even matters. The stuff that isn’t possible is pretty irrelevant – because someone who’s able to program well enough to actually take advantage of AS3’s power isn’t going to find the switch difficult anyway.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by Senekis93:

Not to mention that “X sponsored game was done in AS2” won’t make AS2 any less shitty. A lot of sponsored and popular games have the most horrible code you’ll ever see, that doesn’t make a bad language any better.

To me that just says that your ongoing obsession with using a “good” language and writing the most efficient code possible isn’t actually that important.

I don’t think anyone in the thread said AS2 was overall better, but the way you guys react when someone mentions using it is way out of proportion, especially considering GB is one of the more successful developers out of the regulars on this forum (I know Badgemaster did well, but it’s not a game).

The things that make AS3 so much better as a programming language are the same ones that make it so much harder than AS2 for new programmers. For some people, such as GB, AS2 is still the better choice. It shouldn’t personally offend you to hear anyone say that.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by qwerberberber:

What’s attractive about his games is the graphics and shooting genre and the Key.isDown + trig/mouse repetition in every single shooter game present.

Yup. The language he used to make the game doesn’t matter at all.

Topic: Game Programming / help

its the more efficient choice of language for chat games.

Topic: Game Programming / help

Originally posted by Draco18s:

Originally posted by osomo:

i need an empty game file

Open your IDE of choice.

Hit new.

Hit publish.

BUT REMEMBER TO PICK AS3!

Topic: Game Programming / help

O.o

You’re asking for help on making nothing?

Topic: Game Design / [Feedback] Line'em Up (glock game update)

GB is right on this occasion. Using real gun names can potentially get you into trouble if you haven’t licensed them. H&K is known for going after anyone it notices using the names of its guns, but in theory any company can do the same thing. It’s best to use parody of fictional gun names instead.

Topic: Game Programming / Beginner needing help..!

Quick tutorial on braces, since you don’t quite seem to have the hang of them yet.

Everything inside a set of braces is like content in a sealed box.

Here’s a box with a CD in it:

 

box
{ Justin Bieber CD }

The important thing to note here is that the whole of the CD has to go in the box. So it all has to go inside the braces. This clearly isn’t right:

 

box
{ Justin Bi}eber CD

It’s the same in programming. The package, function, or anything else using braces is like a box that other stuff goes in:

 

package
{ everything here is inside the package }

New lines don’t matter, and to make the code more readable, most people add lots of line breaks. It works the same way though, as long as its inside the braces, its in the box.

 

box{




Justin Bieber CD
}

It’s still in the box, just there’s empty space at the top. Same effect, you get the box, open it up and your CD is inside.

So:

 package
{
_everything here is inside the package_
}

Classes have their own sets of braces. They work the same way, everything inside the class has to go inside the braces.

It’s like putting a box inside a box:

box
{
Justin Bieber CD
another box{Rebecca Black CD}
}

The braces in bold are for the first box. The braces for the second box have to be completely contained within that first box. If you’re not sure why, try it with real boxes.

Each box follows the same rules for its own content, too. So anything in the second box has to be completely inside the second box, which has to be completely inside the first box.

That makes your opening code look like this:

package { public class Enemy extends MovieClip { nothing here yet! } }

Once we add some line breaks to space it out better, it turns into this:

package
{
public class Enemy extends MovieClip
{
nothing here yet!
}
}

You can add as many boxes as you like, inside any other boxes – but the braces must always match up. A closing brace always matches the most recent previous opening brace, no exceptions.

Topic: Game Programming / AS3 or AS2

Originally posted by RTL_Shadow:

Don’t even try to defend AS2 anymore, it is a poorly implemented language and there is no reason you should be using it unless you are lazy. That’s the harsh truth, I’m kind of sick of sweetening it up.

And plus, AS3 does not take longer to write. In fact, it can take a lot shorter to write once you have your classes down. ALSO it has way more features that AS2 will not ever have.

GameBuilder has several sponsored games out, even if they weren’t sponsored for huge amounts. He might not be putting in the work to switch to AS3, but I don’t think you can call him lazy while his output is so much higher than yours.

Players couldn’t care less what language the game is programmed in as long as it runs.

I agree with the replies to the original topic though – if you’re just learning Flash now, start with AS3. Learning AS2 at this point won’t help you much, and if you know some Java already, AS3 is more similar to than that AS2 is.

Topic: Game Programming / Actionscript 2 or 3?

You can safely ignore about half the programmers in this forum when you ask for beginner help. They don’t remember how difficult it can be to get started with programming, and won’t give you any relevant replies because of that.

AS2 is easier to learn for someone with no previous programming knowledge, because its structured more simply. But, it’s been superseded by AS3, and knowing AS2 won’t make it much easier to pick up AS3 because of how many differences between them there are.

If you’re still having problems with the braces { } then AS2 uses them as well anyway, so whichever one you used you’d still have to understand how they work. I have to get ready for soccer pretty soon, so I don’t have time to explain them properly right now, but if you still need a braces tutorial later I should be able to write one up after I get back.

Also, don’t worry about taking classes or buying books. Books won’t help any more than tutorials online do, and while classes are useful, most of the people here either never took classes at all, or only started taking them after they understood the basics of programming anyway.

Since you’re only 13 I definitely recommend you stick with AS3 even if it seems difficult right now. It will set you up to understand other languages, and it’s not like you need to be in a hurry to learn it. Take your time and don’t give up and you’ll understand it all of a sudden.

Topic: Kongregate / Predatory ads

How did you see the ads if you’re using an adblocked? :D

I agree though, the ‘missing plugin’ ad should be removed for sures.

Topic: Game Programming / GiTD [#24] Entries and Discussion

Hey, I just asked a question. You can interpret it how you like.

The description on ‘Ocean Around Me Week 2’ was “If this game gets a 4 star rating I will dedicate all of my programming time to this series”. Since that clearly didn’t happen I think it’s totally fair to ask about it.

Topic: Game Programming / GiTD [#24] Entries and Discussion

I was never a fan of your strategy of offering to focus only on the next ‘Ocean Around Me’ game in exchange for high ratings, but you didn’t even keep your side of the bargain.

I think if you make a promise like that and don’t keep it you should expect to get questions on the topic.

Topic: Game Programming / GiTD [#24] Entries and Discussion

What happened to the promise you made about dedicating all your programming time to the ‘Ocean Around Me’ series in exchange for high ratings?