Recent posts by Tulrog on Kongregate

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Topic: Kongregate / Idle...

Go make a game yourself. As an added bonus try to earn money with your game. Most of your questions will be answered after that.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Will Kongregate follow the European standard

A warning wouldn’t go far enough. A nation which is considered to dumb to use Kinder Eggs by its own Government shouldn’t be allowed to use any adult toys like money.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Wow. What a lame reason. So instead of trying to figure out a good badge point through trial and error they are not even trying. Well that’s a way to deal with problems too. Whatever, the big secret is revealed. Thanks for the quote.

I’m going to discuss Tetsu_Shima’s linked article in the rest of my post since there is no reason to discuss the original topic after saybox’s quote. If you are not interested in that topic you can skip the rest of this post.


The article on games was an interesting read. To sum my thoughts on it up: Cheating/ free unlocking should be available in every game but it should take as much work as possible. Here are two examples on that.

Those who have played some of the Elder Scroll games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim) may know it has a build-in console which allows extensive “cheating”. And this is a good thing for that game. Take stamina for example. The main effect of stamina is not additional difficulty in battles but making the travel from point A to point B annoying. So turning off stamina via the god mode makes the game more enjoyable for me. Even if you take into consideration that the fights get easier through this (no health loss). But those games have so much more to offer. I guess that’s what the author meant. But just because this works for a game doesn’t mean it has to work for every game.


Take the original X-Com for example. The thing I enjoy most in it is the research of new technology. The core game mechanics however is turn-based tactical fighting. I do not enjoy this part of the game. The AI is very unforgiving and involves constantly risking part of your progress (your team members). On top of that once the game gets going you have to do several missions before getting a new technology due to the high alien activity.

So following the logic from The Elder Scrolls a cheat menu would be a good solution. But it isn’t. The ability to skip fights or unlock technology would actually ruin the game for me. The battles may be annoying (for me) but the technologies actually become a real reward for overcoming that obstacle. Getting a new fighter jet is nice. Getting it after going through pain and sacrifice is awesome. But calling this game bad just because I don’t play it for its core game mechanic would be insane.

Does this mean you shouldn’t have the ability to cheat at all? And again the answer is no. Depending on your choices you may get stuck no matter how much you were trying. Cheating at that point will allow you to continue your game. To cheat in the original X-Com you have to actually leave the game, download a hex editor and find the correct values in the save file. That’s a lot of work and you won’t be doing this until you hit a wall. Not just an obstacle which you could overcome in a reasonable time but a real game-breaker that ruins the game for you.


Another aspect which is related to these thoughts is exploration. Exploration is another view point of this whole reward thing. Getting a new technology doesn’t just mean you get +X on some stat. It means you have uncovered another part of the game and may even allow you a completely new strategy. The development of laser rifles in X-Com with its unlimited ammo allows you to mow down every single piece of structure with the exception of the UFO hulls. This is horribly inefficient with regards to time but fun as hell and not as risky as sending in your cannon fodder into an unknown area.

Once you get such a technology you’ll start anticipating the next tech. What will it be? Maybe a flamethrower? Or a flying tank? Who knows but chances are good it will be great. And this pleasure of looking forward to the next hidden bit of information is once again not related to the core game mechanic of killing aliens through good tactical decisions. But it makes the game so much more enjoyable for me. Instant unlocking would take away most of the fun from this.

That’s why I’m so disappointed about many flash games. Upgrades are just blunt stat modifiers and usually you can see the whole skill tree from the start. Or even if most of the tree is hidden you still will know the whole tree because the only thing that changes are the numbers of the stat boost. This is a missed opportunity to add extra fun to the game and a direct consequence of the “play the game for its core mechanics” philosophy.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Originally posted by LouWeed:

Yup OK. Show me an idle game with a high rating, working api, some level of interaction required, and also some tangible in-game milestones that stand by themselves as achievements and I’ll agree that it deserves badges. I might dispute whether it qualifies as an idle game, but whatever.

Clicker Heroes would be a good candidate. Reincarnating (reseting the game + getting some special ingame currency) for the first time could be a milestone. Reaching a certain level could be another one. Not sure about the API but you could always add that. And it has a 4+ rating. And you could reach those points by idling most of the time. Of course that would take way more time than for example upgrading your heroes constantly.

Edit: Of course this is just true for the actual moment. In the future there might be some patches which will make it very easy to reincarnate/ reach the specific level and I guess that’s the main problem.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Originally posted by LouWeed:

It is my personal preference, but there is logic behind it too. Badges are also called “achievements” because they’re supposed to be for achieving something. And I don’t think having a game window open for x number of hours qualifies as achieving anything.

And I don’t think that a single easy badge qualifies as achieving anything. To be honest there are only a few badges which I would consider an actual achievement. Just because it is called an achievement doesn’t mean a thing. That’s not getting us anywhere.

Besides that many idle games involve an active element which speeds things up. And if you take a game like Clicker Heroes you have also the element of randomness and strategic planning to speed up things even more. Sure there are idle games which are not good enough for badges. But that’s true for every genre and doesn’t justify a general exclusion from badges.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

You think that the survival badge in Buritto Bison is a mistake. You also think that idle badges would be a mistake. But that’s just your personal preference. A lot of people enjoy idle games. And they wouldn’t share your opinion. Getting an arbitrary number of whatever ingame score is used would be fun for them. I really don’t see how an arbitrary preference for a game mechanic would be a good reason to deny them this fun.

I mean if such a badge would actually annoy people (and with people I mean majority) who otherwise like the game then yes. This would be a bad badge. But that’s more a matter of “how much” and not “if”.

Still think the constant development of idle games is the reason why we don’t see idle game badges. That’s the only reason which seems to be strong enough to justify the discrimination of the playerbase of a popular genre.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Let’s just assume there are already some badged games which you would refuse to badge for the same reasons you would refuse to badge idle games. Then it just wouldn’t make sense to badge for example launcher games and not badge idle games. Either all games with that characteristics would get badged or none of them. So I don’t think this is the reason why idle games don’t get badges.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Earning a badge for an idle game just means that you’ve played the game long enough to get the badge.

That’s also true for every easy and most medium badges and every game that involves grinding instead of skill as a core game mechanic.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Questionare for OT

Prince Sheogorath is strong in this one.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

@HsssH: Restricting storage space is a rather rare game mechanic. Right now I’m only aware of two games which use this (one of them not being available on Kong). That’s just an example how badge worthy idle games could work. Like with every other genre not every single idle game will be eligible for badges.

@Bluji: Sure. Idle games are very prone to cheating. On top of imports you have also autoclicker and software that can modify the values in your memory. But like with walkthroughs for adventures I don’t think this should be the deciding criteria. Cheating to get badges is even more pointless than getting badges in the first place.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Originally posted by HsssH:

Wouldn’t you be able to get idle badges by simply launching a game, buying couple of upgrades and leave it running for x hours?

As a general rule no. But depending on the game and the badge this could be possible. Usually you have to switch zones or upgrade some stats. Grinding without progressing the game somehow is usually very inefficient. Things would be different if you change hours to days. And then there are those games which restrict the amount of progress you can get through idling. There is a limit on how many resources you can store.

But even if you had this problem. Badges from other genres have such problems too from time to time. Best example would be probably an adventure game without randomized puzzles. You can always look up a walkthrough and the work you need to do to get a badge would be reduced to more or less mindless clicking.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Did you like Last Door Ep4 ?

It was a bit easy compared to the last one. But it’s still a good game compared to other games which are released on Kong. I hope Season 2 will have an optional summery of the story so far. Completely lost track of who is who and what happened to whom.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Possible badge for Adventure Capitalist: Have X angels (or whatever the reincarnation currency was called)
Possible badge for Clicker Heroes: Reincarnate for the first time

The only difference between badges for idle games and badges for all the other games is, there won’t be a badge for beating an idle game. That doesn’t mean there couldn’t be other good badges.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / [Kongregate TV] Episode Guide

Don’t think of a blue elephant! Our brain is horrible when it comes to deal with negations. Instead of telling people what they shouldn’t do, tell them what they should do instead. Rehearsing the text before recording the video could help.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Idle game badges

Originally posted by Blackdrazon:

Greg doesn’t badge Idle games because Idle games make terrible badges.

Unless you explain that a bit more this is just an opinion. Don’t think idle badges are better or worse than badges from any other genre as long as they follow the rules for good badges (mainly going with the flow of the game).

I think the constant development argument is the main reason for no idle badges. Not only can the difficulty change over time but a badge can become completely unobtainable. The badge restriction for idle games is a bit sad since the genre is one of the most popular on Kong right now. But then again badges don’t serve any real reason so nothing of value is lost.

As for MMOs: I agree with the money part. Kong’s main goal is to make money. Giving MMOs badges apparently brings in some extra money. Otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. And the extra money outweighs the disadvantage of broken badges.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Are There Any Native German Speakers Here?

I said there are dialects. I didn’t say everybody speaks it all the time. But there are a lot of people who prefer dialect and there are some few who speak only dialect. And no matter where you are from if I present you two people of whom one is from Bavaria and the other one is from Saxony there is a good chance you won’t understand at least one of them. I think it depends a lot on the age of the person (and if you are in a rural region) but I can guarantee you there are people like that. Had to deal with one myself and could barely understand what he was saying.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Are There Any Native German Speakers Here?

Originally posted by DMinor:

… and another is that I need to learn German so I can go back in time and join the SS and successfully defeat America, Russia, Britain, and France, and create a new world order.

So far that’s the best answer I’ve ever heard. :D A fair bit of warning though. If you come to visit Germany go easy on the Nazi jokes. That’s a very polarizing topic around here. The tolerance towards Hitler fanboys is rather low and jokes like this one might get you reactions which you wouldn’t expect. Of course not everyone will be that serious but better be safe than sorry. Same goes for topics related to jews and Israel.

Articles are a bit tricky but you’ll get used to them eventually. You could look up some strategies which will help you to get the articles right in most of the cases. But in the end it will be just using them over and over again until you get a feeling of what is correct. You could make a training thread and hope that other people will get interested so you could learn together.

Another side note… You are probably aware of it but in Germany (like in every other country) there are regional dialects which differ so much from the standard German that you won’t understand a single sentence. And that’s not only related to you. People from Germany might have trouble understanding people from other regions in Germany if they speak their regional dialect.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Proof that mankind is doomed.

Don’t worry. Skynet is your friend. It will bring world peace.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / I wanna go to another planet

You should talk to people who hate you. I’m sure they want you on a different planet too. Use that to your advantage!

 
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Topic: Off-topic / I've been inspired to not only dual wield shields, but to use them offensively, by Skyrim

If you hate the Brotherhood so much just play their quests. I have yet to play an Elder Scrolls game where the Brotherhood gets a non-downer ending.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / I've been inspired to not only dual wield shields, but to use them offensively, by Skyrim

Using defensive strategies means you give your opponent the initiative. Doubt that’s a good thing. Also in a world with killer drones and gatling guns the value of shields is close to useless.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Are There Any Native German Speakers Here?

Of course! If you move to a country it would be rather arrogant not to learn its language. But learning it as a hobby seems rather strange to me. German might not be among the hardest languages to learn but you will have to put a lot of effort into your studies. The potential use of your knowledge on the other hand is rather low. Don’t think many people speak German outside of Germany and some of its bordering countries.

As for Chinese and Spanish: China is ze upcoming economic power. Speaking Chinese will be a great boost for many job applications. Also it’s the most spoken language of the world. Spanish is spoken in many countries and people. There is a good chance it will be useful at some point of your life outside of Spain.

Don’t know why anybody would learn French. Maybe if you go for a vacation to France. One common prejudice is that our French neighbors are too proud to learn or speak English. No idea if this is true. At least it sounds sexy and even if you curse it still sounds like you wipe your ass with silk.

Japanese? Anime/ manga. Enough said. Dubbs are fucking horrible. But it wouldn’t be high on my list of priorities either.


For DMinor (or anybody who understands German): Here is an article which relates to this topic. Reading articles from the online press could be generally a good idea if you want to improve your German. They may not use the language which is spoken on the street but at least they don’t make many mistakes. And you get to know interesting stuff at the same time.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Are There Any Native German Speakers Here?

I just wonder why people bother to learn German instead for let’s say Chinese or Spanish. Don’t want to discourage anybody from learning whatever they want. Just pure interest.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / Are There Any Native German Speakers Here?

Whenever I see someone who wants to learn German I’m confused why they are torturing themselves. Not that it is a bad thing to learn different languages but why German. English is an obligatory subject around here so as long you talk to people who aren’t too old you should be fine. Of course it is always nice to see if somebody tries to speak your language but I don’t think it will be necessary for you to speak German.

 
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Topic: Off-topic / I've almost finished downloading Skyrim and I think I'm hardcore (update: I dieded)

I’d define a coward as somebody who doesn’t take a risk despite having a good chance to succeed. A smart person on the other hand is just minimizing this risk.

It all depends of what your priorities are. If you put honor above survival then going for close range weapons is a perfectly valid choice.

Also if you want to keep things realistic your hardcore run should be harder. If you die you’ll never play the game again. That’s like playing poker with chips vs playing poker with money. Same game, but the way you make your decisions changes drastically. And life is merciless. It won’t go easy on you just because you are new to “a game”.

Hope you’ll keep us updated on the things you’ve learned.