Recent posts by Tulrog on Kongregate

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Topic: Kongregate / Please Welcome Our Newest Kongregate Forum Mod--Precarious!

I’d wish you good luck. But people with skill don’t need luck. So instead just kongrats and have fun. :D

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Originally posted by light_bringer777:

Read a comparison a few days back and thought it was pretty accurate. You go in programming/development projects thinking it’s a marathon, so you just calculate distance / running speed, but in turns out it’s an obstacle course. And you get lost half-way through. And you end up injured at some point. And a road is blocked. And the other path goes through a mountain. And by the time you make it they changed the finish line.

And that’s just the best case scenario! But the harder the fight the sweeter the victory. ;)

 
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Topic: General Gaming / TESO Data Requirment?

Originally posted by Ganthro:

Alright. I figured it out. The game is working now. The other day, it installed perfectly fine, without any mention of data. Perhaps what happened the first time was just a glitch. I didn’t do anything differently, though I do recall resetting my computer or updates after the time it didn’t work. Maybe that helped? Thank you for the advice, by the way, Tulrog.

Hello IT. Have you tried turning it off and on again? :D

Well enjoy playing your game. But personally I hope Bethesda will continue on the single player games because that’s where they are just freaking awesome.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Originally posted by light_bringer777:

Every single project I do is so damn full of new knowledge that I always end up wishing I could just start over the whole thing.

But the biggest lessons I take from the project so far are:

4) It always takes approx. 3 times longer than you’d expect, so don’t jump into a “1 year project” unless you want to spend your next 3 years on it DX

Haha. I like to see this one being confirmed over and over again. It’s like you are all “I’m just going to implement this simple piece of code” but life just goes “Yeah… no.” :D

Anyways thanks for your wise words and best of luck with your newest game and your transition to steam.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Learn to fly 3

Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for all that background information you provide in this thread. It is really interesting to get a view from a different perspective in contrast to “just” a finished game.

I was wondering… even if LTF3 isn’t technically finished yet, are there any lessons you learned from your kickstarter campaign and the development of your newest game? Any wise words you’d like to share? :D

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

Originally posted by Da1andOnlyPharo:
Originally posted by Pulsaris:

I’ll also want the IT workers at Kongregate to review the API code since the API seems to make games unstable. This also happened in the past but happens more often recently. Still, I know they will not do that since the IT workers at Kongregate are just a pile of garbage.

I was going to ask the thread how it could be the case that Strike force kitty 2 got laggy after badges were added.

It can’t just be the API either since not every game gets shitty once badged.

In theory it could probably get laggy if the API isn’t implemented in a smart way. So let’s say you have a game where your character moves around. And you have a stat “total distance walked”. Now if you update that stat every time your character moves you will create a lot of traffic between your game in somebody’s browser and Kong’s stat server. Not sure if this would be enough to make your game lag. But if the submit function works in a synchronous way (game waits until the function is executed completely) your game should be slower than the version which doesn’t use the API. But that’s just me guessing around. If some dev is bored he could go and test if a “bad” implementation has any measurable consequences.

With all that said I don’t think this is the case with SFK2. The game lagged for me before it had badges. And the lag didn’t start right away but after playing the game for some time. That seems to be a typical case of memory leak where objects don’t get removed from memory after they aren’t used anymore. And the game itself is a typical case of a great game with a bad implementation. Not sure if it should have gotten badges but it pretty much is at the limit of what is acceptable.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / TESO Data Requirment?

Quick google search indicates that you might have to run whatever program you were using in admin mode.

 
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Topic: General Gaming / Skyrim?

If you like being productive… I’ve got bad news for you… :D

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

Originally posted by Bluji:
Originally posted by wouterboy:
Originally posted by greg:

On the topic of quests, I’m thinking about making one that focuses on short, 5-minute games. We seem to be getting fewer and fewer of those, which is the WORST THING EVER, from my unbiased perspective as someone who has to thoroughly play each game before designing badges.

Icarus Needs
Mini Commando
Hook
Soccer Physics
Caesar’s Day Off
Break the Limits!
2048 Flash
Pretentious Game
Relive Your Life
A small talk at the back of beyond

Design a medal and think of the quest’s text and you could have it up before the end of the week.

Adding some to this list:

A Duck Has An Adventure
Five Minutes to Kill (Yourself)
Brawlin’ Sailor
Moon Waltz
any of the Shark games

I hereby declare this bump declared.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Why so much Idle?

Originally posted by petesahooligan:

There’s some serious insight going on in this thread and I appreciate that.

Yeah. I’m gonna jump on that thought and add my thanks to anyone who goes beyond “Idle games sucks” and “No. They don’t.” in those threads. Even if we may never come to an agreement on this topic it still makes the situation more enjoyable. Bonus points to anyone who manages to keep a basic level of respect towards the others. Keep on rockin.


If you discuss what people like or don’t like don’t forget what position you are speaking from. Hardcore gamers who have been here for years will have a different focus than some kid that just wants to kill some time till the next lesson. Without any idea how the average Kong user is like it will be hard to make a decision about which system/ idea is better.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Why so much Idle?

You really shouldn’t take that so personal and be bitter about it. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. Try to see the positive. You managed to complete a full scale game development project. This is more than 99% of the people on this site (including me) can say of themselves. That’s something to be proud of no matter the rating or other factors. While other people wasted their time consuming you went ahead an created something. You have shown initiative, endurance and determination. This is something no bad rating can take away from you and will be worth a lot in real life.

Yes. I understand your disappointment (who wouldn’t). But is this really the conclusion you want to draw from the whole experience? That everything is unfair, all people are stupid and there isn’t much you can do besides waiting for everybody else to change their behavior? You are putting yourself voluntary into a position where you can’t do much about your situation.


I’m in no position to give you advice but maybe you still decide to give it some thought:

1) Instead of insulting people try to understand why they like idle games and if you can use that whole idle game hype somehow to your advantage. I know that sweet sweet taste of sarcasm. It’s so tempting and so hard to resist. But in the end comments like that will just make you look like a sore loser. You give up your reputation as a dev who is in full control of his actions and as a pleasant human being other people want to interact with for a quick fix that will make you feel good for a moment but won’t change anything.

2) Take a step back and think about how to improve your situation. Take a look at what people liked about your game and make it better. Write down the biggest problems you have faced and write down as many solutions as possible. Forget about any limitations at that point and be open about ideas. Once you are done you can drop the stupid ones and pursue the ones which might help you.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Why so much Idle?

Not sure if you write here as a dev or a long time Kong user. So just to clear things up whenever I will write “you” I don’t mean you personally but every dev who blames others for the lack of success in his games.

Let’s assume for a second that your points were valid. How is complaining about it going to help you in any way? Do you think people will change magically their mind and suddenly rate your games higher? Do you think greg will come along and say “Oh yeah. How stupid of me. I’m gonna put your games into the Hot New Games”? Do you think the spam games will suddenly stop being released? Or that Kong will change the current system which is apparently working for them? I’d be surprised if any of these questions had “Yes” as an answer.

You know it’s not that your points might not have some truth to them. It’s more that I personally think taking responsibility for the situation and focusing your energy on things you can actually influence is a better way to get closer to your goal than to point the finger and hope that something will change in your favor. And in the end you are the only one who will do 100% of what you want and you also are the only one who has an interest in seeing your game succeed. But that’s just my opinion. Of course you a free to see things completely differently. That’s your choice. Just be aware that choices always come with consequences.


Maybe if I go more in-depth into some of your arguments it become clearer what I mean. Let’s take the part with the early rater. What stops you from gathering people yourself which will play and rate your games? And I really mean stop. Not just make it difficult. Will you have to put more effort into finding those people than devs which have a real budget or who have already a fanbase? Hell yes. But it’s not like this is something completely impossible which you can’t do anything about.

On top of my mind I’d try checking the profiles of the people in some forum threads and see if there are some connections to the genre of my game. If there was a chance that person could like my game I’d write him a pm with something like “Hey. I’ve seen you like game X a lot. I’ve made a game which goes into the same direction. Maybe you could take a look at it and provide some feedback. And if you like it, leaving a rating would help me exposing it to more people and getting more feedback to improve it.

I don’t have the slightest idea how many people would actually react to this but I doubt many could resist to take at least a look at your game. After all that’s not just some untargeted chat spam. You have a reason for asking that specific people. This might give you an edge over all the other devs who think that the initial rating by a selected few is something you can’t do anything about. Of course no strategy will work if your game isn’t good/ hits the taste of a big crow(d). Sometimes I have the feeling that some devs still think that putting a lot of effort into a game automatically implies that it is a good game. Not that putting effort into a game is a bad thing. ;) But that’s just not how things work.


I’m pretty sure there are more ideas like that but you need to change your perception a bit to see those ideas. Of course you could also start a discussion on the forums and try to change Kong’s opinion and behavior. But keep in mind that they have other goals than you. And they provide you already with a site with a huge player base, the ability to host your game for free and the ability to even earn money by that. You can’t expect them to go all the way for you. So whenever you are trying to change somebody else you should have their interest in mind, not yours. And you don’t have the data Kong has to make a good decision. My advice would be to stick to that guy who will do whatever the hell you tell him to do. :D

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Why so much Idle?

Not gonna comment on yet another idle games post. But the rest of the thread went into an interesting direction.

It is easy to put the blame on Kong. “Hiding” the newest games was a strange move. But the devs deserve a good share of the blame too.


Take a look at the newest games and see how many games will give you an impression of what to expect in that game. I don’t know if devs aren’t aware of their options and limitations or if they are just lazy. But at least for me the relevant information given boils down to just the name of the game.

It may be Kong’s fault that only the few lines of the game description are shown. However that doesn’t change the fact that things are how they are right now. So if you are a dev and put something like “This game was made for this and that contest…” or “This is my first game…” in the very first place of your description you give me exactly zero information about your game. On top of that you reduce my motivation to even try out your game (shorter than “normal” games / lower quality). It’s not that this information is unimportant. In fact it does affect my perception of a game. But this is just the wrong place. Give a short(!) description of your game and put that additional information below that.


To be honest this wouldn’t be that bad on its own. But what really upsets me is the lack of ingame pictures. Unless I’m mistaken Kong gives every dev the option to add additional pictures besides the standard one which every game has. And this is the greatest opportunity to distinguish yourself from all the other games. With the exception of MMOs and some major game devs basically no game uses this option. And a quick look on a few thoughtfully selected pictures will tell me everything I need to know about a game.

On the other side if you don’t use this option this tells me a lot about you as a dev. You either lack motivation or you are trying to hide the quality of your game. And neither of those two will have a positive impact on my expectation of your game.


Strangely many devs don’t seem to understand what sort of competition they face. It is not just every single game on this site. It is not just the gamesKong gives some sort of spotlight. It is not only against games on other sites like AG or NG. Even looking at it as a race against every possible game (Steam, consoles, freemium mobile games) isn’t enough. You compete against every possible form of entertainment (youtube, netflix, music streaming sites) which is available to your audience.

So in the end if you are a game dev, just release your game on Kong and think that people will come to this site just to click their way through dozens of dress-up and other non-games just to play and praise your game… well… you are not going to like the news. They won’t.


I don’t know how to improve the game promoting situation for devs. Not a big fan of the direct approach (spamming chat or the forum). But if the devs don’t even bother to use the existing options, putting all the blame on Kong just doesn’t seem to be a fair way to deal with things.


To get back a bit on-topic: Idle games have all the information I need to know in their name. That’s why they stand out in the wasteland of new games. At least this is how things were until now. With the recent increase in releases of idle games they will lose this advantage.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / April '15 Suggestion Thread

Yay. Another voting. :D

0) A button that will release a tarantula-shooting crow that will fly and destroy my enemies. A real one… not something digital. Fairly easy to implement. All you need is a button next to every poster in the forum, a lab for bio-genetical mutations and a mad scientist.

1) A preview post option
2) An easier way to quote parts of other posts.
3)

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

I for one like the fact that Greg is varying the badges a bit. :)

 
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Topic: Kongregate / P2W, or pay to win

Originally posted by Holy2334:
Originally posted by bobby71983:

Well, “tricked” is a bit of a ridiculous word to use, but the point is still valid. If you have someone out there who is deadset about putting money into a game, and they are going to put that money into a game no matter what, wouldn’t you want a share of it? Any legitimate business would say yes.

There is a game theory out there that describes on how P2W games work and its not just the fact they are being tricked, but they treat people like junkies by adding features in the game that purposely deprive the player from playing and that player will get so addicted they will pay just to get their fill in. This sounds like something worth reading as Kongregate gives out the reason why P2W players aren’t being tricked.

The link is a great read. Not gonna comment on how good the comparison is. But even if it was I don’t think this is how many MMO companies see things.

With every hobby you can make a somewhat good estimate how much money you are going to spend. Or at least there won’t be much randomness affecting the money you are going to spend. But even if you encounter some randomness it usually isn’t there to make you spend more money.

And with things like lotteries/ lockboxes, at least 2 layers of abstraction (money —> kreds —> ingame currency) before payment, constant power creep, the ability to spend real money with just one click and some other tricks that support addictive behavior it is hard to believe that providing service and value is the main (or even just a high priority) goal of the company behind such a game.

But with all that said… it is pay-to-win not pay-or-die. It takes two for this game. Ont the other hand… so does selling drugs.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Game recommendations?

Maybe that’s some sort of popularity connection? “People who liked X also liked Y. You liked X so you might also like Y.”

Would be really interesting to see the algorithm behind the recommendations. But I think you hit the jackpot in terms of randomness. :D

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

So you mean there are way more than 50 stashes but you need to find only 50? I really haven’t paid much attention to them due to their “insignificance”. That would make it less grindy. Do secret stashes show up on the radar? I’d have a hard time to justify them as material for a hard badge as they are now. But if they even show up on the radar this is definitely more of a medium badge.

I think inspectors are more suited for a collection badge. They may be easier to find but they have a much stronger impact on the game. And they are the thing I like the most in this game. :D

If there is really need for another hard badge the best thing I could come up with is the the area outside of the city with a timer. Getting a certain number of kills could be quite challenging and fun at the same time. The other thing that comes into my mind are the later building upgrade missions. Personally I think that’s the hardest part in the whole game. But I have no idea how to make a badge out of this without going for 100% completion.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

Not a big fan of the stash hard badge. If you have missed a stash you have no indication in which area you should look for it. So once you are done with all the levels all you will do is replay every single level and systematically search every pixel. That’s not challenging in any way but will consume a lot of time. On top of that the rewards from finding the stashes are negligible and have close to no impact on the game. So in the end finding all of the stashes doesn’t even go with the flow of the game.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / [Kongregate TV] Episode Guide

Thanks for the background info.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / [Kongregate TV] Episode Guide

I like that you are trying new things out. That’s always a good sign. And I love the level of community involvement. That’s just awesome.

But that was a missed opportunity otherwise. What you did could have been a good idea for the games who didn’t make it into the Top 5. For future reference here are some quick ideas on what you could have done:

  • A (pseudo?) analysis why people have chosen those games :D
  • Some background information on the games or the devs of the games which the players don’t have
  • Personal anecdotes
  • A quick survey in your office on what the Top 5 of the Kong staff are
 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

+1 to Ghostscape 3D. The game is great… even if the ending sucks… kind of.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Is kong's CEO, Emily_Greer really a cocaine addict?

Sometimes I have the feeling crows are on drugs. I mean have you seen the video where they roll down in snow on a car. How on earth do you do something like that without being high? :D

But on the other hand… cocaine influence would explain some of the recent design changes. Can’t argue with a boss that has a “vision”. It’s a well known fact that crows don’t lie so I’ll go with the cocaine theory. Sadly no Illuminati were involved in this thread. :(

THE TRUTHDUN DUN DUUUUUN !!!

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

@Irgso: You are right. The 3.8 isn’t a hard rule. You are free to propose games with a lower rating. But as long as there are new games with a rating of at least 3.8 they are going to get preferred treatment. At least I am not aware of an exception to this rule. The games you see with a lower rating got either badged before this thread or their rating dropped after the badges were added. That’s a very common effect of badges.

Maybe go read the very first page of this thread. This should clear some things up.

One though I will add is that you can argue for and against badges in every game. You argue that a game needs to be challenging. I say a game needs only some exploration and progression without regard of difficulty. Who is right? That depends a lot on how you define a good game and is very subjective. On top of that you have absolutely no idea how representative any of these arguments are.

Ratings on the other hand are also very subjective but at least you get a good idea about how people think of the game. And another advantage is that you don’t have to go through countless walls of text just to start thinking about which badges a game should get (and this is the main purpose of this thread). Maybe not a perfect solution but a quick and dirty one.

 
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Topic: Kongregate / Upcoming Badges!

Originally posted by Irgso:
Originally posted by Tulrog:
You are absolutely free to have your own opinion and your own taste but if a game manages to keep a 3.8 rating over some time there are definitely more than enough people who disagree with you.

Just to point this out for the specific game “Frozen Island”. It came out on March 26th… two days ago….

And what exactly is this post supposed to express that needs further discussion? First off the game has already ~6000 rating votes. That means even now every new vote will change the rating only by 1/6000th. And every vote after that will be even weaker. Don’t take that “over some time” thing too literally. Popularity of the game, genre and dev is also important.

But even if it drops to 3.7 … then it just won’t get badged. But in that case not because a single person on the forum classified it as not-badge-worthy but because the majority of the people who played the game consider it a decent game but not good enough for badges. I don’t see how the opinion of one random person on the forum should be worth more than the opinion of 6k+ people who played the game.

Right now it isn’t even officially on Greg’s list on the front page. And there will be at least two more days before it could possibly get some badges. But at the same time it already fulfills the 3.8 criteria with a somewhat stable rating. So it is worth it to keep it on the radar.