Recent posts by MichealS15 on Kongregate

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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Alright stop for a second and read a full post before you comment… Yes fort hood was brought up but read the line before it where I had said in a remark to another post saying that they can take all personel and equipment but they have to leave the bases and facilities alone… By disregarding that lil tid bit of info you basically ruin the entire meaning of what I was trying to say. Which ironically was a joke post for most of that but minor details moving on…

I am not disagreeing with anyone that trade would not be affected by a secession… I know damn well it would be affected, possibly for as much as 10 years after the transition. However if we look back on history (yes I know I only have 2 points to choose from and both were well over 100 years ago) But during the revoltionary war and the civil war trade flourished… Hell the french and the spanish joined in the revolutionary for exclusive rights to the fur and spice trades of the time… Now what does Texas have that is currently illegal for them to produce more of… I will give you a direct quote and 10 points go to whoever can tell me who said it first… “We can not drill our way out of this problem” Did you know that there are as many as 20 sites proposed for offshore drilling that under current us laws are not gonna happen… There are literally thousands of large scale drilling sites proposed within the state of texas itself that have been denied… And if I remember this correctly, Texas has untapped oil reserves larger than the entire middle east combined. You couple that with the fact that if you cut out texas from the rest of the US as it stands right now. It is in fact the 15th largest independent economy in the world it sits between china and india (google it I will wait).

Now that you are back if you think the state only produces oil then you are mistaken… Just to name a few the state also produces salt, sulfur, gypsum, gold, silver, coal, natural gas, and lumber just to name a few…. And lets not even go back into the manufacturing again

Now lets move away from the fact for a second and go into the philosophical side… What do you think would happen if there was no epa or us federal government to tell a new nation no you can not drill that there to bring down the cost for your own citizens???

And again the budget in the state and the books are black… They have a surplus of funds with money to spend, The education system may not be at the top of the list but it is still far above the 8th grade level and on top of that the tier one college schools within the state (Texas A&M University for example)

Again there is a low unemployment rate of about 6% vs over 8% for the rest of the country

Onto another issue I read in here somewhere….
The original plan for the US at its founding was that the states took care of all there own laws, taxation, infrastructure, and programs. It worked in theory that every state was in essence its own small country coming together to make up the overall country as a whole… THE UNITED STATES. However over time starting around the late 1870’s or so the federal government began taking more and more power. The people and the states disagreed with this practice which lead to the only known mass secession in our history and our civil war. The war was not fought over slavery as some would have us believe it was in essence a fight over a states right and the power of a large federal government and telling the states this is what you are going to do “END SLAVERY.” Now don’t misconstrue this slavery had to be stopped then same as it does now but thats a whole nother discussion.

Now the same movement is beginning again and that is why I continously say that history is repeating itself again. Astute readers of history will tell you that this has happened dozens of times across the ages in some way shape or form, and I personally find it fascinating.

There were some other things I wanted to comment on from what I read but I am doing this post very late and I am having trouble thinking straight

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Originally posted by Jantonaitis:

All US businesses you say??? So the fact that texas has more fortune 500 companies within its borders now become texas companies and are no longer subject to your healthcare, or 30-45% tax increase…

They won’t stay there, though. Anyplace that secedes would be looked on as a hostile, radical commercial environment where anything and everything could go wrong. Business heads won’t take their chances, neither would shareholders. If they stayed they’d be willfully allowing their stock to plummet.

Yea I forgot to add the choice part that…. If it were to happen like that as the satire of the orignal and my own remarks are to the topic. In actuallity I would forsee the them given the choice… Do you wish to stay in texas and become a texas company here are our stipulations for business licenses and taxes… And your alternative would be to return to the us with no fear of reprisal… Here are the stipulations pf there business licenses and taxes.

Most businesses including my families business are based in texas because of the state laws protecting business owners and limiting taxes on the company… I would think after a legal secession the laws would change slightly seeing as how texas would have more leniency to affect the business…. In the end any country wants businesses to stay and come within its borders to produce jobs and revenue

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Originally posted by beauval:

Most people do not even question why, how, or what. Just as an example the next biggest petition on the white house website is that of federally legalized marijuana at over 50,000 signatures (and apparently this is not the first time its been put forward to be signed)… Thats the next biggest issue concerning the people of this country…

You think you’ve got problems. We have 20% of your population, and yet 165,000 people think that stopping the badger cull (they’re cute but they carry bovine TB) is the second most pressing issue facing us at the moment. 174,000 of them think the most important thing is to give back to Richard Branson a franchise in which he failed miserably. You just can’t trust Joe Public to get it right in politics.

That is where some of the anger is coming from. The past 4 presidential elections have not been decided by popular vote but by the electoral college who in some of those instances has actually voted against the popular majority.

If this is the root of the problem, then wouldn’t it be more sensible to start a petition on dumpimg the EC system instead of getting sidetracked into some bullshit argument about breaking up the union?. From what I have read about it, the EC is widely unpopular. An attack on that would likely gain a lot of support nationwide, and from a much wider demographic. Now that’s something the White House would have to take seriously.

This is very true and over the years mainly around election time groups pop up and petitions to remove the electoral completely from the elections. Being that we are now in a digital age and the information is gathered immediately. The electoral was created for the reason that once upon a time it would take weeks to count all the votes and send it to the capital… the electoral were supposed to be representatives of there districts and make the vote for the people…. Which as I said earlier they have not been doing.

In reply to another post

Originally posted by slasher:

Ok yea you can take all your military personel and even equipment from the state but you will leave the multibillion dollar hospitals, headquarters, and the largest base in the world (Fort Hood) will be left to us

Guard the texas us border… Thats gonna be hard because you can’t even guard the 2,000 miles of the us mexico border… How are you gonna handlee the 3,000+ texas us border… As soon as I stop laughing I will comment further

The passports will be fine thats part of the agreement but if any tax collectors come to collect from any texas citizen they will be jailed.

The state of texas pays for its own infrastructure as most states do and texas already having some of the nicest roads in the union…. I think we will be fine… The education system… Let me remind you that texas is a state with a balanced budget, who is actually in the black… We have money to spend and are wishing to reform education anyways.

All US businesses you say??? So the fact that texas has more fortune 500 companies within its borders now become texas companies and are no longer subject to your healthcare, or 30-45% tax increase… Also companies that provide to your military such as lockheed and martin, which you currently purchase the aircraft at cost. The state now withholds a right to charge a tax rate on all f-35, f-22, f-16, c-130, c-5, u2, p3, adp, and t50 aircraft. As well as any other companies that design and builds parts m1a1 abrahms tanks, body armor, weapons, shipyards, and digital technologies ranging anywhere from calculators to sophisticated radars… Furthermore American airlines will now be referred to as texas airlines

We will also continue selling our natural gas and oil to the us but there will be a tax cost to pay for any extra programs we deem worthy and texas citizens do take priority.

International law states that faa must operate at all airports around the world… Should the air traffic controllers wish it they become texas citizens and they will continue to work. If you wish to fire so many employees we will gladly take them to help us build a new nation… If they wish to return to a nation that fired them for simply being inside our borders at time of transition we will provide transportation for them into the us.

foreigners are allowed to recieve payments? thats another one that makes me laugh… You provide large sums of money to every other country in the world under the guise of aide… And you are concerned about removing us lol ok.

The coast guard is fine… Seeing as how you already left us with a huge shipyard in houston and a naval base in galveston I think we will be fine…. Is there anything else we can do for you?

PS… You really should have thought this through more… Without the US, Texas is ranked as the 15th largest economy in the world with a fairly low unemployment rate of about 6% and a balanced budget We have 3 times the fortune 500 companies as the next state on the list (California) There is no employment tax… Only a sales tax of 8%…

>

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Again sry for the dble post…

People want to know where these petitions are

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

I honestly get a laugh out of some of them

I am not gonna scroll through all 60 or 70 of the state ones again but here is the texas one (not sure if I am allowed to post these links if not I am sry to moderators and admins)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B

I will admit that the number of signatures is starting to slow down… But you can read through all the signatures and see that it is not one person signing over and over again lol While a majority are in texas you have many other signatures from across the US as well

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

You are looking from the outside in and don’t understand the people as well as you think you do.

I’m observing a horde of angry people that their vote wasn’t the majority posting up some ridiculous petition and hoping that their minority is going to get them anywhere. I acknowledge they have different views from Obama, but I don’t acknowledge that their only options are Romney or forming a separate country.

Texas as a state started bringing up seccession back in the bush terms but was only known locally within the state… Petitions for or against were often sent to the state capital… This is the first time (that I know of) that it has been sent to the white house and congress.

Now that fact aside, Any state wishing to join the union must draw up a bill of rights congruent with that of the US and provide individual stipulations to the union as terms before joining. Texas being a former nation left the stipulation that it would with hold the rights of its army commanded only by the president of texas (became the governor) the state flag would be the only one to fly at same level as the US flag, and should it ever deem neccessary or prudent… Be allowed to secede from the union and become its own nation again. That was written into there statehood constitution that the congress and president of the era signed.

Beyond that… Out of Texas it recieved no electoral votes for Obama (as well as other states) and the populace votes in those states were mainly Romney. When you look at the final map in the general color code you see alot of red 30 states in fact voted republican 20 states voted democrat The projected electoral vote was 281 republican and 257 democrat. Popular votes were counted 61 million vs 58 million (give or take rough estimate) electoral returned and instead of being the previous estimate we had 207 vs 303 (I think that was the final number) It was called by the electoral as a landslide win to obama… That is where some of the anger is coming from. The past 4 presidential elections have not been decided by popular vote but by the electoral college who in some of those instances has actually voted against the popular majority.

You add on top of that the raising debt, increased costs of living, stagnate wages, slow job force, declining economy, the forced laws, the stripping of rights, liberties, and freedoms over the past 12 years and one should begin to see the bigger picture… At least half of this country wants out… They are done, they feel that there government is not listening to them and they don’t want to take it anymore.

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Originally posted by beauval:

Yes many people are right, the white house is most likely going to reply with no. Which in turn will have a negative impact allowing the movement to gain more traction and strength among the populace Well why can’t we peacefully leave people will ask. People will protest and the state will push back and eventually there will be a moment thats sets the spark that will explode into a revolution history repeats itself… again.

Unless, of course, the other three hundred million people in the USA decide that this is a really stupid idea, and it sinks without trace in a couple of weeks.

Very true… I forgot to add that part into the post, I do apologize. The people as a whole are content with allowing the government to take whatever it wishes. There is no spirit of resistance in anyone anymore. Most people do not even question why, how, or what. Just as an example the next biggest petition on the white house website is that of federally legalized marijuana at over 50,000 signatures (and apparently this is not the first time its been put forward to be signed)… Thats the next biggest issue concerning the people of this country… You know maybe they should legalize it so then our most intelligent discussion will be if the snossberries taste like snossberries, and all of this will be for nothing.

Although there still may be hope… Now that all 50 states have officially started there own petitions texas still gaining something around 15,000 more signatures by itself in a day… (I haven’t confirmed this myself I was only told it by a coworker), but if you include all the petitions for secession into one then there are now over 1 million signatures… And we still have almost a full month to go before the petitions are closed and the white house responds… With the no that we all expect.

Now my question is as an observer to all of this… How far will it go before the majority stand up and say enough is enough???

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

can an admin pm me as to why my previous post was removed… sry for the dble post and the question

 
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Topic: Serious Discussion / Secession of States post Obama re-election

Patriotism is not unquestionable loyalty to a country or government… True Patriotism is standing up against your government when you believe it is the right thing to do (forgot the author)

This move for seccession is mainly a symbolic one, geared mainly to gain enough response to warrant an official response from the powers that be. With that being said we need to remember that the original declaration of independence was a symbolic gesture to the king after the events of continous taxation, no right to due process, standing armies in time of peace, illegal siezure of land and property, and various other transgressions peaking with the battles of concorde and lexington where british soldiers marched on the towns to search and illegally sieze weapons of the towns. An armed group of 70 militia men stood in front of the town and was (according to some) fired upon by the british force of 3 times the size

Our own declaration of indepence stated,
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

“…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government…”
That document had 56 signatures out of a potential of several million (estimate census for the colonies is sketchy at best). And now people wish to claim that 100,000+ and growing does not speak for the majority or even a minority… That is irrelavant the point is this many people wish to be heard.

People have forgotten that this country was founded on the principles of rebellion… rebellion against taxes, rebellion against government, rebellion against an evergrowing law book.

Thomas Jefferson (one of the nations founding fathers, 3rd president, signer and author of the declaration of indepence) said "If we want freedom, there should be an armed rebellion every 20 years. What country can preserve its LIBERTY if its rulers are not warned from time to time that its PEOPLE possess the spirit of resistance. Let them take up arms, what signify a few lives lost in a century or 2. The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots, tyrants, and traitors. It is its natural manure

We as a nation are long since overdue. People bring up the revolutionary and civil wars and say that not enough people are for secession. Well the revolutionary war only 45% of the people were reportedly patriot once the term came up. Civil war only 35-40% were for secession. However once the governments stood up to say no… More joined the cause to defend there right and there home. Those wars started because of the governments refusal to allow it to happen. Which sad to say is what needs to happen to ensure freedom and liberty are upheld.

That is also why we also have the second amendment not for hunting or sport. But to stand up against the government should it ever step out of line again. Thomas Jefferson said “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government” And while the argument now among us for gun control and terms that they are evil well George Washington once said “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good”

Yes many people are right, the white house is most likely going to reply with no. Which in turn will have a negative impact allowing the movement to gain more traction and strength among the populace Well why can’t we peacefully leave people will ask. People will protest and the state will push back and eventually there will be a moment thats sets the spark that will explode into a revolution history repeats itself… again. Once this happens “we must all hang together, for assuredly we will all hang seperately” (Benjamin Franklin)