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I completely agree that ratios mean almost nothing.
However, your example leaves a lot out. If you expect your opponent to do action A, because he is a pro, you can do the counter to that. But if he thinks that you'll do the counter, he can do action B (counter to your counter). You, expecting this can perhaps do the counter to his counter. He, expecting that, could just go back to action A. It's a lot deeper than you are making it out to be, and not everyone reacts the way you do. Read this: http://www.sirlin.net/archive/yomi-layer-3-knowing-mind-of-the-opponent/ It will make you a better Kongai player.
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the guys saying the game is based mostly on luck, would you please state your win loss record when you complain, im just a little curious
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(forgot to say, I'm just to lazy often to really use a coin, it isn't just like a little playing to relax... but the game is better when really using a coin)
It makes people go crazy, like they try so hard to notice a pattern in you, they just cannot find.
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The main skill that is left, is to notice patterns, like many people wont reintercept after a unsucessful intercept, or hardly everybody expects me to change when I am already in a favorite position (so to even improve the position)... or whatever.
At the end its really in many case just look. Why do most people I play against have ratios like 2:1. because of the newbs. Many people come, play a few losses and go to never be seen again.
BTW I think I could improve when playing less when I''m really tired and doing really stupid things. But really who the f* cares about the ratio at all? It says nothing about your skill.
(Also noticed on some daytimes you get more likely a newb to play against than on another other time, so ratio might also reflect on what time of the day you play)
And even if the game is in a good deal about random. Does it make it bad because of this?
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Actually I do play the best games when flipping a coin on many occasions (except situations were one decission is really stupid, like intercepting when the other has only 1 card left).
About "skill"; many, many, many situations look like this: Okay I got ashi in near, the say ubuntu. Now if I'd be a newbie 99% likely I'd just use the strongest attack, that makes me very predictable. You can easily beat newbs, because they are really very predictable and hardly switch at all. Now when I play against a pro. I can expect he switches out, but when he expects me to intercept he can just wait it out, so I can attack again, when he thinks that I think that he thinks he is gonna wait because he thinks that I think I gonna attack eitherway, he might change eitherway. Its just random.
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everyone complains about how it doesnt show you which attacks of yours will be faster each turn, but rather displays the speeds of random attacks to be faster.
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i love it when people ask kongregate to fix something. they act as if they are the first to notice this 'flaw'. for example: do you think kongregate isnt already doing everything it can to fix the servers? commenting here isnt helping. the same deal with flash powder.
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Also, just because a person tries to be unpredictable, doesn't mean they succeed. I've predicted the moves of the highest level players before. That wasn't luck, unless I was flipping a coin to decide my actions, it was skill. It was taking the person's personality, past actions, and the current situation into account and making a judgment. The same thing has happened in reverse, where someone has accurately predicted what I would do even when I was trying specifically to be unpredictable. This isn't rock-paper-scissors, where its only three choices and no chance of predicting or out-maneuvering the opponent. There's dozens of different types of rocks, and sometimes its more beneficial to pick paper against scissors than rock, and sometimes not. You're overly simplifying things to try and prove that things are simple.
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All these people whining that the game is all luck because they missed the last attack of a game, and the other person hit and won. That game wasn't luck. Was it luck that the other person fought you down to the point where it came down to just 1 attack? No. If you were a better player, you'd be far enough ahead at the end of a game that one miss wouldn't lose the game for you. Consider the whole game, and not just one attack. No matter how inconvenient that one miss might be, it's one miss (or two or three, etc). The whole game isn't based off of one hit or miss, unless you make it that way.
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catpaw: ad "professionals"
It would be like rockpaperscissors, if there were only 3 cards and you would have to play them every time, which is not the case.
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I feel like luck dominates more over strategy/psychology. Probably at least 70%. The last game I played is like PURE LUCK; I won because my enemy Tafari miss with Poison Shot (90% hit) when he coulda won, but instead, i won.
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woho take until now more than 10 loses when the game was 100% already mine -.- senseless "love" the kongregate server =/
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hellraiser3, also ratios mean shit. To some degree they only tell on how picky you are who you are playing against. I play against everybody, even highlevel players who are pretty unpredictable. This of course worsens my ratio against trying hard to play against newbs only. Do I care? No.
BBKoe, if disconnects wouldn't count as loss, people (actually stupid little kids) would just plug out their network cable when losing.
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RamboBatman 94,56% of all numbers are drawn out of thin air. So as long you didn't actually make a tally sheet, or have any exacter definition of when a game was desided by luck instead of skill. Your numbers aren't any better than of anybody else, just because you make a longer story to draw them out of thin air.
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Consider this game would be played by a professinal this game hardly has any skills at all.
Say you play against a professional, he will likely not predictable what he does (attack/intercept/switch), so actually no matter what you do, it is likely to be right or wrong. So you are unpredictable too...
Its like the classic paper/stone/scissor game. Thinking about playing it against a "professional", you have exactly the same chances of win/lose. Sometimes however humans are imperfect, and you can win more often if you can discover patterns in their behaviour. As long the other doesnt discver the pattern in you, because you think you discovered his pattern, the game is still winnable.
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takes to long to load some times, and i don't think it should be random chance, char do to much damge to each other, which takes a little stradgie out of it
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HELLRAISER3: I don't know what sort of crazy math you are doing but a statement like "this game is actually 95% luck and 5% skill" requires some actual evidence to be considered valid. Consider the following, I have played about 1700 matches (before you start, yes, I know I'm a nerd). Of the 390 matches I have lost about 50 were due to bad luck (last minute misses, my opponent's 3 consecutive crits, etc.) Of the 1310 matches I have won about 30 I should have lost but then won due to the same sorts of circumstances. So, of 1700 matches the outcome of about 80 was determined by the uneven distribution of luck. So that makes a ratio of skill-determined matches to luck determined matches of about 20:1 or 5%. From this I can say the game is actually 95% skill and 5% luck.
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bombatcat: Whatever the luck element in the game, it hasn't changed. It has not become more or less luck reliant. As for Andromeda, the only move whose chance to hit didn't make sense (trueshot) got changed. As for a rematch option, while it may take a little more effort you can still fairly easily replay the same person by setting up a private match.
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This game has become too reliant on luck. Every game has luck change the tide and there are to many imbalances. Why does andromeda even have a chance of missing attacks? She's an ARCHER? Shouldn't she be at 95% at least? Crits are coming out of everywhere...like 5 in one game on moves that don't have a crit chance. I don't know, used to like it, but it's not strategic enough (yes i know, there's some strategy with guessing etc., but there doesn't seem to be enough) I still think there should be a REMATCH option, get to it kongregate, replaying someone increases the strategy element.
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There is a big difference between luck and chances.
1:1 ratio will mean we all have the same chances
2:1 ratio or whatever else, means either one have more skills or luck.
Luck is when you have 1% to hit and you hit 999,999 times out of 1,000,000.(thats 99.9999% chance and not 1%!!!) How is it possible?
It is cause if u continue to play to 100,000,000 you lose 99,999,999.Its still 1% overall regardless if you will never play even at the 1 million times to see your chances to kick in.
This game is actually 95% luck and 5% skill.
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If Zina kills someone with an attack that should trigger leafy trap, it doesn't because beast feast triggers first. Thjis is unfair.
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Yeah, I maintain a 2:1 or 3:1 win ratio. You do get lucky, but guessing when your opponent will switch or not takes skill, a good sense of second-guessing and knowing to spot a bluff - or you could just be smart like me and use an attack that hits fleeing opponents. ^^
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Unlike Yugioh and magic this game relies on Skill rather than who has the best cards. There is skill in predicting your opponents moves, stacking the percentages in your favor, and setting up powerful hits. There is very little luck in this game; if this game is all luck, why do I have a 2-1 win/loss ratio? if it was all luck I would have a 1:1 rartio.
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"Man Versus Machine Challenge" keeps staying longer and longer. Everybody that wanted that card has it! Damn.
Oh by the way i played "Magic: The Gathering" some days ago. There rules sucks too. But this games rulset sucks more. (Both are nothing comapred to most recent YU-GI-OH rulset). This game has to match bars and to mutch randomness. The is only one source of randomness acceptable in an card game: The Stack. The Stack? Which Stack? Do you knew what is missing?
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LambieXD: This is a frequent issue that people have with quickening powder. The item causes some of your moves to appear with an increased speed. The number as it appears does not represent the actual speed of the move. You cannot predict whether or not your move will be faster on any given turn.
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i think there should be a warning or some sort: for players under aged, please read the Instructions section first.. i got a critical and he calls it "hacking"... i dont know whether to laugh or get mad...
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Eh, I was Zina (Flash Powder) vs. Le Morte with a really annoying guy calling me n00b. I was gonna go Eye of the tiger +3 Speed = 8 speed, and kill him, but he turned out going first, and Vampiric Touch knocked her out? Got a reason for this, Kongai? Fix this, please, or if any of the other users know why, tell me.
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The server has been really troublesome after the latest update. The connection is unstable, and people are lagging out left and right and losing games they shouldnt be. Kongregate should really look into fixing this. It's very frustrating
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always same card gotta be lot sof card i must say wow man wtf i have never seen it i never say this when playing this game ^^
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there seem to be lots of issues with this game lately revolving around the sever, the game often crashes, server often falls apart, and other similar things