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@Thaago "Ah, let me rephrase properly played Tafari speaking as an sr33: NEVER ambush. EVER"
Speaking as SR 40 you are wrong
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True; saying never ambush ever is very silly. But the biggest mistake tafari players make is trying to ambush; most of the time its a horrible move. In regards to the range game: if you are playing tafari, THEY should be the ones making mistakes and wasting energy. They have to worry about switching and if they play fancy you can right back. Meanwhile, the poison clock ticks down and your move only costs 20.
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Here's the thing, you're assuming you're always going to make the right move in the range game and, if you're playing against a good opponent, you're not. Sometimes your opponent is going to make you waste your move. And saying "NEVER ambush. EVER." is silly. yes, Tafari is basically a dart on stick but, he has hide and ambush for a reason. If your opponent is close-only and ambush can kill them why wouldn't you ambush them?
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Ah, let me rephrase properly played Tafari speaking as an sr33: NEVER ambush. EVER. It is the right move maybe 1 in 100 plays; mostly its a newb trap. Like you said, a tank can eat an ambush, but it can't eat poison and the range game. Use poison dart once or twice, then play the range game while poison takes effect (and your other chars heal). When the poison is done, do another dart. Play it slow, range game well try and draw a false intercept if you can.
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Alright, so I just went and let Kong-bot's Tafari throw darts at me while I blood burned him and I got poisoned while absorbing. He wasn't using deadly poison which I suppose could be different (although I don't know why it would be). Regardless, I'm reverting back to my original position, Tafari vs MLM heavily favors Tafari.
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Thaago, Tanks vs. Tafari is okay because they can usually survive ambush. Oni can just double slash, double slash. He eats the ambush but Tafari is dead. If Oni is at 20 energy, he can rest, DS, DS. Ashi has similar options with BS and SS.
I realize that these matchups are more complicated since Tafari has more options than Hide/Ambush, but none of them really lead to the tank losing decisively as long as the tank is willing to take an ambush.
And this is assuming that the tank has only 20 energy. If he has 40 or 50, things are even better.
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Twinge: I was assuming that deadly poison could proc even when the dart was absorbed, if I'm wrong then I agree that MLM can win. Personally, I've never seen it and, as always seems to be the case, the match is MLMs to lose, you mess up one move and hes KOd. I consider both Cain and MLM to be in the bottom 5 characters. Thaago: while I also frequently wreck Oni with Tafari its mostly because my opponents don't know how to intelligently play Oni (and tbf, Oni is more difficult than people think) Against a good Oni you're going to need a dodge (or 2) in order to avoid damage and probably death. And, when considering character matchups, assuming you're opponent will be at low energy to make your point is a straw man arguement.
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Twinge, I agree that MlM can win, but I have seen Tafari win, too. And I am pretty sure that I have seen deadly poison proc even when the attack does no damage.
There are several issues that make it an interesting matchup. There is a little luck from poison procs and dart misses. But the other key issue is can Tafari predict when MlM will teleport. If he hides the same turn, MlM has to go far again and then rest while eating poison.
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Twinge: I agree that MLM is more dangerous than people give credit for, but I disagree with you earlier comment about tanks being ok against Tafari. Properly played, Tafari will take out a tank without taking any damage (this assumes that Tafari is switched in when the tank has full hitpoints, but low energy). When I play Tafari I consistently take out Oni without a scratch (granted I end at low energy).
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RamboBatman: No I'm serious, we've even specifically tested this - a good MLM wins (we even tried 2 different people - one running Insignia and one with Ring; I'm sure Tome works fine too). There's 3 important factors here: 1) Two Blood Burns will disable Deadly Poison. 2) Ambush is a 2-part move. 3) Hide costs 30 energy, not 20. Now I'm not saying MLM will usually come out of it sitting in happy land at full health and high energy or anything, but he should outlive Tafari probably 80% of the time if MLM knows what he's doing. | You trying him out reminds me of when I last used Cain, though. When he missed Rush of Bats 3 times in a row it was clear his heart wasn't in the game, so I cut him from my team. (Overall I consider MLM Tier 2 and Cain Tier 3.)
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Anyway, I recently thought that maybe I was being unfair to MLM, calling him the worst character and all. So, I decided to play him some and see if he wasn't as terrible as I thought. In my third game with him I missed two vampiric touches in a row and got pilebunkered to death. While I know that this certainly isn't the norm I took it as a sign from god that regardless of MLM quality, I definetely shouldn't be playing him.
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Twinge: I've had people express the opinion that MLM beats Tafari before but, I cannot fathom why. Unless MLM is wearing ring of curses his options are a) eat Ambush and die or b) get slowly poisoned to death. Maybe you've never encountered a decent Tafari player before but, given decent players on both sides Tafari definetely wins. MLM can't use any of his regen moves without taking a spear to the face and teleport/get far is way too expensive a method to deal 10 damage. Blood burn helps MLMs terrible energy game a little but in the Tafari matchup its the poison that does the damage, not the dart. Even 4 times debuffed Ambush does more than 50 damage and if Tafari hasn't poisoned MLM a couple of times in there he doesn't know what he's doing.
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amparojack: Tanks are fine against Taf - they simply need to know how to eat an Ambush or LT. Not to say Taf isn't decent, but he's not really good against many chars directly. |||| RamboBatman: MLM actually has the advantage against Tafari 1vs1 if the person playing him knows what they're doing. Granted, Tafari still has the ability to switch out which can screw with things a bit, but if you're talking a direct cage match I'd put my money on MLM every time. In general, Tafari is a 1-move character (Poison Dart) with the strongest innate in the game and some decent defenses; he isn't really *meant* to go toe-to-toe with anybody; he's mostly meant to trap them and finish them off. (Rumiko is about the only person he actually has an advantage against directly.) | Alblaka: Popo's Herbal is 100% proc -- if the attack itself hits, and is not absorbed. So if you PD CC it'll probably be absorbed; the attack's proc can happen on absorb, but not buffs/items/innates.