Hello Kongregators! A new partnership is being announced this week that we’re super excited about. We’ve been working on it for awhile already, but we don’t want to announce a lot of the details until it’s tested and ready to launch, so I’m going to apologize in advance for some of the vagueness. Just know this: there will be cuteness, there will be fun, there will be shiny things. Forte is partnering with a number of leading game developers and communities to use blockchain technology in ways that foster community and developer engagement in gaming, and Kongregate is excited to be one of them. Users will gain “Blocks” in various ways, but some can be earned in special challenges that involve achieving milestones in great games on Kongregate. You do not need to, nor can you, purchase them. The Forte platform uses blockchain technology (more on that in a moment), allowing users to control their rewards and giving us options for community interaction and involvement between various games and developers. I realize I’m being short on specifics here, but you’ll get a better picture when we announce the first challenge or another part of the program. ## Blockchain? What does that mean? ## So, either you know a lot about Blockchain and are thinking “Cool, blockchain has a lot of possibilities besides the cryptocurrency uses it’s known for” *or* you vaguely associate it with cryptocurrency and are wondering if we are going to secretly do stuff on your computer, or you don’t care that much. If you are vaguely nervous, we want you to be more knowledgeable so that you can relax. I found this article on [Blockchain Technology](https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-is-blockchain-technology/) very helpful in understanding why it could be so great for gaming interactions. The “stuff” you’ll be able to get with Blocks is something I think is really cool, and I’m very excited about it. I’m sure some of you will complain and say it’s not that great. Some of you hate Kongpanions, too. You don’t have to participate. I’ll still appreciate you. ## When Will You Tell Us More? ## When I can? Sorry, until we are pretty close to a date, there are things that could change, and we don’t want to make announcements before things are tested and all agreements worked out and signed. It’s a mistake for me to say too much before things are finalized and close to launch. ## But Jo, Will You Finally Give Us What We Want Most of All? ## Sorry, I am 99.9999999 % certain you will not be able to use Blocks to purchase a non-existent Kongpanion, so….  [Click here to read the official Announcement from Forte](https://www.forte.io/?p=72)

Badehunters who've spent more than a decade earning badges and points for "Bragging Rights": 

> *Originally posted by **[JohannasGarden](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13300936)**:* > I found this article on Blockchain Technology very helpful in understanding why it could be so great for gaming interactions. ...Which article? :P

> > > > *Originally posted by **[adv0catus](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13300973)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[JohannasGarden](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13300936)**:* > > I found this article on Blockchain Technology very helpful in understanding why it could be so great for gaming interactions. > > ...Which article? :P Fixed now. > *Originally posted by **[Holy2334](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13300948)**:* > Badehunters who've spent more than a deace earning badges and points for "Bragging Rights": Don't assume this will make badges and points irrelevant ;-), although we'll be going for something different than "bragging rights".

> *Originally posted by **[JohannasGarden](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13301007)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Holy2334](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13300948)**:* > > Badehunters who've spent more than a deace earning badges and points for "Bragging Rights": > > > Don't assume this will make badges and points irrelevant ;-), although we'll be going for something different than "bragging rights". Hopefully vast riches... :D

As a badge hunter and point collector =| Not sure I like the smell of this.

I'm honestly excited to see what Kong will do to with implimenting cryto currency on this site, and will Kreds be downgraded if "Blocks" are a thing?

Hmm, blockchain is so overrated. It's an extremely inefficient way (the computational energy cost is massive on a large scale, the only difference is that it's not carried by a single entity, but from a society's pov. it's hugely inefficient) to do something that can much more easily be done in a traditional way, provided you have trust in the system. I get why for certain things it may be interesting to use blockchain, but for games... Anyway, it's innovative, so there's that. I just hope those calculations won't be offloaded to my laptop/computer/phone/..., I don't need my battery life drained by something like this. If it's computed elsewhere, there is not much of a downside from a single user's direct economical perspective. What I can tell you is that blockchain certainly is not a green technology. When implemented on a large scale with great quantities of separate transactions, it requires way more energy than more traditional methods.

I think we need to have a better idea what Forte is? I went to their web site, and got the same info. Yes it is block chain, but how many people here know or do not know about Forte and or Block chains?

> So, either you know a lot about Blockchain and are thinking “Cool, blockchain has a lot of possibilities besides the cryptocurrency uses it’s known for” or you vaguely associate it with cryptocurrency and are wondering if we are going to secretly do stuff on your computer, or you don’t care that much. Or, you are very skeptical of the use of blockchain in general? I agree with what @Tetsuo_Shima said above, but I'd like to go futher. What benefit does using a blockchain provide you? What could you use it for that allows you to do something completely different than traditional systems? The only "benefits" I see blockchain having is that it can't be regulated by a single entity. Which, in your case, is probably a bad thing! What if a government demands that you refund a transaction made on the blockchain? What if you want to push out a new version of the blockchain framework? If you don't have the cooperation of a majority of the miners, you won't be able to do either of these things. I have no idea what you're planning on using this for, but whatever it is, I really hope players and developers can opt out. Please?

Seems a bit random to me, though let's see how it turns out! I think that the Kongpanions concept could definitely use a refresh

> *Originally posted by **[JohannasGarden](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13301007)**:* > > Don't assume this will make badges and points irrelevant ;-), although we'll be going for something different than "bragging rights". Badges and points have been irrelevant for a long time already. As for this, in my mind, I can see some possibilities with blockchain. But why the secrecy on how it is to operate? You should be able to describe how the interaction will be done and how it will be used without spoiling what games will use it and what they can do with it. I understand you want to keep the surprise there, but there are two clear levels here. How it will work and what will be done with it. The second can stay a secret and developers can make use of it. But expand on the first to give examples of what is going to be done. Will it be an expansion of the Kartridge application so that the gaming process is shared by all the online Kartridge users thus allowing for more in depth gaming? Will it be separate from Kartridge altogether? But there is more that can be told here. It would be like explaining how the internet works. Doing so does not give away any game play in the games on the site. Let's hear how this is to work. I am sure we won't have our dinner spoiled.

Would really like some specifics here, why are you going for blockchain and not a centralized solution? All this blockchain fad is usually just marketing because of the bitcoin bubble, the system would usually be so much better if done centralized, and that's not counting when you just slap blockchain in the name and don't actually use it.

Great now at last, finally I can start to get more constructive with my Kong experience.

> > Badges and points have been irrelevant for a long time already. That's literally why I am here though...

For any developer reading this, my advice is to stay well away. Blockchain today is largely used to perpetrate scams and frauds. Seriously, that’s all it’s used for. No-one has found a way to do anything useful with it, despite years of trying. Instead they try and fleece money from investors, pay themselves lots of money and get out before the inevitable hangover. Or they are glorified Ponzi schemes, designed to draw in more and more money until they run out of people to con and it collapses. It’s odd anyone is trying to do this now. A few years back there was more interest from large firms trying to see what they could do with it, but they all took a look and realised how broken blockchain is. Maybe the news of this didn’t reach everyone, so there are still investors willing to throw money at blockchain. For those who want to read more about it, don’t read the Blockchain Technology post which is full of outright falsehoods. Instead I recommend this: https://medium.com/@kaistinchcombe/decentralized-and-trustless-crypto-paradise-is-actually-a-medieval-hellhole-c1ca122efdec

> *Originally posted by **[EPGstudios](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13301582)**:* > I have no idea what you're planning on using this for, but whatever it is, I really hope players and developers can opt out. Please? thankfully, the op says that this is entirely possible, so yay for that > *Originally posted by **[JohannasGarden](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13300936)**:* > I’m sure some of you will complain and say it’s not that great. Some of you hate Kongpanions, too. You don’t have to participate. I’ll still appreciate you. *** i'm honestly completely clueless when it comes to blockchains, and i have zero idea how that technology could be used in conjunction with gaming, and honestly neither the article in the op nor the article in jwbsoftware's post helped me understand that i suppose that, out of the 15 possible uses listed in the article linked in the op, file storage would be the most relevant to gaming in which case i'm kinda skeptical, as i'm fairly sure this would only work if every computer where data is stored has an internet connection with relatively high upload speeds, which probably won't be the case if this task is outsourced to the common user though honestly i might just be completely wrong and dumb, so i should probably stop speculating i'll probably just see it work in action first, and decide whether i want to participate later

First, let's understand the actual announcement here, because it's really wordy and ambiguous. It's more about trying to downplay the use of the word "blockchain" than it is informative about Kongregate's next endeavor. To sum up the simple points: > We're partnering with a "blockchain gaming **startup**" (Forte is less than a year old) to hopefully bring you engaging content. We have no specifics to offer, but don't worry about understanding the term "blockchain." Just trust us. Just trust us. That's about it. Apparently, the Kongregate community is supposed to be excited about a decision that we didn't know about, don't have a say in, don't understand, and can't have any details about? **If that doesn't sound like a risky red flag, I don't know what would.** Or how about the fact that, despite attempts to distance crypotcurrency from this, the whole thing is completely funded by Ripple, a cryptocurrency firm? But despite these facts, I'm willing to take the Hanlon's Razor approach (assume simplicity before malice) and believe that this was a low-cost venture for Kongregate's new management. After all, based on the linked announcement, Kongregate's getting a slice of that $100 Million investment fund, right? The downside of this belief is that, if the venture fails, Kongregate has wasted everyone's time that could have been spent on real improvements for the community, rather than improving Kongregate's wallet. But one line from the OP really got me thinking and looking into Forte, and it's founder Kevin Chou: "* ... to use blockchain technology in ways that foster community and developer engagement in gaming ... Users will gain “Blocks” in various ways, but some can be earned in special challenges that involve achieving milestones in great games on Kongregate.*" This line tells me that it's the technology *behind* blockchain (and not what everyone associates with cryptocurrency) that Forte and Kongregate are using. Basically, they are just using the system that links a record of inputs into a common history, and using that to "foster community engagement." Which has some interesting implications - I can see how blockchain could connect a community among multiple varied data points, and I can see how it could be used in games that pool community efforts together (or against each other). Real-time updating, a constant constraint of online gaming, is something that can be achieved with blockchain, and that can be implemented in games in a few cool ways. **It also has some frightening implications**. Blockchain technology only works if a large pool of users opt to use the same framework, and record their personal data inputs together in one place. While the OP mentions users cannot *purchase* blocks (which is a legally required statement), there is **NOWHERE** that mentions being able to opt out. At the start it sounds like the technology will be limited to specific games and challenges, but... if implemented site-wide this would be a HUGE Pandora's box of problems. The issues of site-based information-sharing are a hot topic for Facebook right now, and I hestitate to think about what kind of scams a startup like Forte and Ripple could be capable of. After all, Kevin Chou goes out of his way to say that his company "isn't like those other scams related to blockchain" - a classic scam line from someone who has studied those scams (and their profitability). Again, Hanlon's Razor, but... they're going to have to make that $100 Million investment back from Kongregate somehow. All in all, I'm not convinced to "just trust Kongregate." Kongregate's under new management. Kongregate's failed the community before, many times. Kongregate's made announcements with big promises that have almost always under-delivered and disappointed. And a post that mocks the legitimate complaints about Kongpanions does nothing to make me think this is in the best interest of Kongregate's community. Actually, this whole post is very unlike you, Johanna. The tone here suggests this is a sell-out managerial move that you don't necessarily support or believe in. The lack of information compounds that. In my eyes, this post was a mistake, which potentially foretells what a mistake participating in the endeavors described here might be.

Just want to say I agree with all of that ^ This smells bad

Yeah I think I'm going to try and steer clear of all of this until an effort is made by Kongregate to be more transparent about it's decisions. You might not be ready to reveal everything and to be fair, you don't owe us much. But something more than this would definitely be appreciated in the coming weeks.

> *Originally posted by **[Cal010](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13304038)**:* > Just want to say I agree with all of that ^ > > This smells bad Thats the smell of Business for ya. After all that's what Kongregate is.

Okay, I did some more research. Here's some interesting bits of Forte's announcement, emphasis my own: > Earlier this year, **we announced a $100M developer fund** to help accelerate the adoption of blockchain technology in games. We believe blockchain will unlock new economic and creative opportunities for the games community at large, and have been building easy-to-use tools using open protocols like Interledger so developers can properly — and effectively — harness the potential that blockchain offers games. Forte certainly doesn't lack the capital. I'll give them that. > But we haven’t been doing it alone. We’ve been working closely with **a diverse and immensely talented group of developer partners** to help ensure that our platform technologies meet their needs, while also leveraging **our experience in economy and game design** to help them build the best experiences for their respective player communities. **Kongregate is one of those developers.** ...Experience in game design? I don't mean to be a jerk, but... what games has Forte worked on? I've browsed their site, but can't find any mention of a single title they've shipped. They also don't list out individual members/employees, so I really don't know what "experience" they're talking about. (Then again, having cancelled/unshipped games is common in the industry. But again, there's no way for me to check.) The same goes for "economy"; They haven't provided concrete examples of any "economy" they've made. Also, I'm going to make a super pedantic distinction: I'd classify Kongregate as a publisher, not a developer, since they fund/host games instead of developing them in-house. (Although, you could argue that some of Greg's games could count). Finally, I'll close out with a quote from their "commitments" section of their site: >We care deeply about games. That’s why we’re building a platform that we believe will forever change the games industry in positive ways—better business models for developers, new types of game designs for players, and community economics that benefit everyone. As such, we’re committed to long-term investments in building the proper technology and infrastructure necessary for the platform and community rather than seeking any form of short-term financial gain. That seems like a pretty good vision! Even if I think their blockchain thing isn't worth it, I can respect Forte for their values. (Then again, it's super easy for anyone to *claim* they have values, but I'm going to assume they're honest).

> *Originally posted by **[dee4life](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13303119)**:* > > That's literally why I am here though... I'll admit, it is my obsessive compulsive nature that keeps me playing the games with badges almost exclusively or getting Kongpanions. And maybe it is yours too. But whatever idiosyncrasies I (or you) may have does not give relevance to badges or the points system. It is just a system that was specifically designed to take advantage of these eccentricities of ours. It is not like you get anything from it. It is the illusion of getting something that ensares. Afterall, the Kongpanion page still says more games coming soon that will use Kongpanions. To paraphrase Cypher, "I know the point system doesn't really exist. I know that when I win a badge, Kongregate is telling my brain that it is worth something and I am one step closer. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss"

I do realize this is difficult to understand without examples. This type of application fosters social interaction and community building, so the articles above wouldn't really apply, from my understanding. I apologize for not being more transparent yet. The reason we don't give specifics early is that while we have a plan right now, we might discover that some parts of it might work so well as we start testing. Then we have to come back and say "Oh, I know we said it would be like this, but that actually looked awful in testing or disrupts real-time gameplay in certain games, so the first release is more limited, etc." This type of thing has actually happened between what Product tells Community/Player Experience and what actually gets released a few months later, so I've ended up thinking, "Well, although I hated being vague, I'm glad I didn't say a whole lot about our plans 4 months ago, because this is really different." Right now I'm in the "I don't like having to be this vague" phase. I do not blame anyone for not jumping on the hype train and reserving judgement. I want to address a few worries that might be persisting here: This isn't about running a crypto miner on the machines of users and profiting from it. You do not have to spend any money. A lot of the articles are about using blockchain for financial transactions, and this isn't that type of application. I personally think the stuff will be very fun, and we have smart people who evaluated the possibility and thought it would be good for Kongregate. I'll see if I can get get confirmation on the data sharing concerns, but the use of "personal data inputs" might be creating some extra concern. Say that's your userid, Kongregate username, and certain game stats that can already be viewed on our high scores table, the date, i.e., all numbers already public on Kongregate related to your activity here, then I don't think we need to sound the alarms. I'll chat with people after the holidays.

> *Originally posted by **[EPGstudios](/forums/1/topics/1880162?page=1#13304567)**:* > > But we haven’t been doing it alone. We’ve been working closely with **a diverse and immensely talented group of developer partners** to help ensure that our platform technologies meet their needs, while also leveraging **our experience in economy and game design** to help them build the best experiences for their respective player communities. **Kongregate is one of those developers.** > > ...Experience in game design? I don't mean to be a jerk, but... what games has Forte worked on? I've browsed their site, but can't find any mention of a single title they've shipped. They also don't list out individual members/employees, so I really don't know what "experience" they're talking about. (Then again, having cancelled/unshipped games is common in the industry. But again, there's no way for me to check.) The same goes for "economy"; They haven't provided concrete examples of any "economy" they've made. JERK! Did you just assume someone's lack of game experience? Assuming that they are so bad at making games that they haven't released a fully made product? How rude! JK tho, as I did my own research and at least CEO has experience.... just in the games that Kongregate **loves** so much and the community enjoys playing. Anyways, the CEO and Co-founder of Forte, Kevin Chou, is also the founder of Kabam which is known for making freeimum games like Marvel Contest of Champions. Forte is a really new company, infact so new it started in Feburary of this year and you can't find much about it doing a google search. So far Kongregate is the 3rd partner they've announced with 2 others being announced at the end of October, Disruptor Beam and Other Ocean. Disruptor Beam is the company behind Game of Thrones Ascent (which shut down in January this year and was on this site), Startrek Timelines, and The Walking Dead: March to War (Also shut down in January this year). Other Ocean is the company behind the Minecraft 3DS edition, Simpsons Tapped Out, a VR Rick & Morty game, and other games. They say that they have other companies that they are planning to announce in the upcoming weeks, but I guess that's all you need to know of what of stuff we are dealing with. Another great thing to read is why [Kevin started up Forte](https://medium.com/forte-labs-inc/why-i-started-forte-633ff5325ad4) which the tl;dr version is to balance out freemium games from being too p2w and to give developers a reason to cater to everybody rather than just to the people who dump thousands of dollars into these games that shut down after a few years. I gues that's it. Use that information as you will.