[Full chart.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSv8OhayGV0psYwFUsBRiQAheplIRr_rLGp3Q74Mvf2_g8PP41hny1UmLnT0jFAHczNZVPMZT11v6Yh/pubchart?oid=957125356&format=interactive) > *Originally posted by **[EmberStorm37](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#posts-13427286)**:* > ... It might even be a deterrant to people who would be interested in getting them but see that it is impossible. It's almost like being locked out of a site feature just because you weren't around from the beginning.

oop

Joyce certainly wasn't very popular. :D

Interesting how it spiked for Duke and Rose considering what happened when Blocks launched.

Sure seems like a slow death. Almost all of the botd's are easy. To miss a botd you basically have to not visit the site for a week. Joyce must have been bugged or something. I haven't missed one, but I don't remember any given week being harder than another. edit: Oh, I see. Joyce is Kartridge only. That explains that. I never bothered with Kartridge.

Why get them? All they are is another profile trophy, like achievements. Unlike achievements it's impossible to get the old ones, because Kongpanions are for some unknown reason limited time. The newer a player is the less incentive there is to get them because there are more and more that are permantly unobtanable. It might even be a deterrant to people who would be interested in getting them but see that it is impossible. It's almost like being locked out of a site feature just because you weren't around from the beginning.

> *Originally posted by **[EmberStorm37](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427286)**:* > Why get them? All they are is another profile trophy, like achievements. Unlike achievements it's impossible to get the old ones, because Kongpanions are for some unknown reason limited time. The newer a player is the less incentive there is to get them because there are more and more that are permantly unobtanable. It might even be a deterrant to people who would be interested in getting them but see that it is impossible. It's almost like being locked out of a site feature just because you weren't around from the beginning. Yes and no. While you'll never have all the Kongpanions all at once if you missed any or weren't here at the beginning of their introduction, you can obtain old ones at the end of each year if you didn't complete all of that year's Kongpanions. I was able to acquire really old ones from years' past. However, no, they'll never be shiny, so if that's what you're going for, then yes, you'll always be SOL.

> *Originally posted by **[SirVoltsworth](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427279)**:* > Interesting how it spiked for Duke and Rose considering what happened when Blocks launched. Not that interesting; the scripts that retroactively awarded the missing BotDs and Kongpangions were somewhat generous; that's not unreasonable given how poor the Blocks roll out went.

> *Originally posted by **[Thok](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427334)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[SirVoltsworth](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427279)**:* > > Interesting how it spiked for Duke and Rose considering what happened when Blocks launched. > > Not that interesting; the scripts that retroactively awarded the missing BotDs and Kongpangions were somewhat generous; that's not unreasonable given how poor the Blocks roll out went. Ah, didn't know how that worked. That does make sense.

> *Originally posted by **[Thok](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427334)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[SirVoltsworth](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427279)**:* > > Interesting how it spiked for Duke and Rose considering what happened when Blocks launched. > > Not that interesting; the scripts that retroactively awarded the missing BotDs and Kongpangions were somewhat generous; that's not unreasonable given how poor the Blocks roll out went. My thought was this was another failure of the engineers to think out what happens. Two BotDs were missing. But the first script did not run until Thursday or Friday. Thus it is not unreasonble that some would have already gotten the Kongpanion. The first scripts failed and probably incremented the Kongpanion count without actaully awarding the Kongpanion, regardless of if they had it already. Then they fixed the scripts and ran them again, which again, did not check to see if people had it already and incremented the count again. And the Kongregate administration through the years cannot sit back and try to claim they did not know that Kongpanion participation was falling. I was very vocal on this subject. They simply ignored the dwindling participation and rested on their laurels . When Antsy came out in its rough hewn form, I was thrilled. All the Kongpanions look essentially the same. Antsy was edgy and different. I had hoped it would usher in an era of new artists or many even user submitted Kongpanions. But at the end of the week, they swapped out the rough Antsy for Antony with the typical artwork. I am sure that with just different art work, more would have, at least for a short time, participated again.

> *Originally posted by **[Lordzorak](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427384)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Thok](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427334)**:* > > > *Originally posted by **[SirVoltsworth](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427279)**:* > > > Interesting how it spiked for Duke and Rose considering what happened when Blocks launched. > > > > Not that interesting; the scripts that retroactively awarded the missing BotDs and Kongpangions were somewhat generous; that's not unreasonable given how poor the Blocks roll out went. > > My thought was this was another failure of the engineers to think out what happens. Two BotDs were missing. But the first script did not run until Thursday or Friday. Thus it is not unreasonble that some would have already gotten the Kongpanion. The first scripts failed and probably incremented the Kongpanion count without actaully awarding the Kongpanion, regardless of if they had it already. Then they fixed the scripts and ran them again, which again, did not check to see if people had it already and incremented the count again. > > And the Kongregate administration through the years cannot sit back and try to claim they did not know that Kongpanion participation was falling. I was very vocal on this subject. They simply ignored the dwindling participation and rested on their laurels . > > When Antsy came out in its rough hewn form, I was thrilled. All the Kongpanions look essentially the same. Antsy was edgy and different. I had hoped it would usher in an era of new artists or many even user submitted Kongpanions. But at the end of the week, they swapped out the rough Antsy for Antony with the typical artwork. I am sure that with just different art work, more would have, at least for a short time, participated again. I must congratulate you on your vivid imagination, but from their previous actions I doubt what you said could be true at all. First I'd say that those engineers would probably said that adding a new feature wasn't a wise idea. They already blocked any changes to Kongpanions for years, and I think it's very unlikely they wanted new changes to the site. I can therefore safely assume they were just overruled, and did what they can to fix things when the new update (obviously) broke things. Secondly I do agree they you were very vocal about some subjects and I must say it's very entertaining to hear that you are very vocal. But perhaps you're better off letting other people speculate on things instead, especially if most of them do better. And last but not least, there will always be people complaining about the style of Kongpanions. If you keep them the same style, some people will find them too samey. And if you change the style, some people will always complain they look different/better/worse. It's like pokemon, I've heard from people that every new generation pokemans look worse than the previous ones. But feel free to complain about them, it's very entertaining!

> *Originally posted by **[rinky999](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427477)**:* > I must congratulate you on your vivid imagination Thank you. In my world, the sky is purple. > First I'd say that those engineers would probably said that adding a new feature wasn't a wise idea. They already blocked any changes to Kongpanions for years, and I think it's very unlikely they wanted new changes to the site. I can therefore safely assume they were just overruled, and did what they can to fix things when the new update (obviously) broke things. So you are just dismissing that the first time they ran their corrective scripts, it did not work? Some script did run, you can read that in Johanna's posts. But the script did not do what was intended so that they had to rework it and run it again. And there may have been a third running of a script. Why then is it implausible that these non functioning scripts might not have inadvertantly incremented the count of those who had gotten the kongpanion? Are you suggesting the Kongregate just randomly gave players the Kongpanion as a token of forgivenance, even to those who never tried for the Kongpanion? To go from 24k who only had to do one BotD in a given week to all a sudden two weeks of 33k then back down to 24k. No, it is more likely that the figures, which are a statistical anomaly, are wrong and it is just a matter of why they are wrong. What was going on during those two weeks? Failed code, failed stickers, and rushed attempts to award BotDs that were missed. And the admin did block attempts to award shiney Kongpanions after the fact, but that was because at the beginning, the engineers had no foresight to consider that there may be a need to award a shiney Kongpanion after the fact. Johanna or some other admin looked into that at the beginning of this year and that was what they found. No one thought it would be needed, so they did not put a way in to do it. And to do it now would take too much time to totally rework the code. The admin was never going to spend the manhours or resources to do it. > Secondly I do agree they you were very vocal about some subjects and I must say it's very entertaining to hear that you are very vocal. But perhaps you're better off letting other people speculate on things instead, especially if most of them do better. Speculate away, but the fact is that Kongregate is where it is now because they had success and did nothing to maintain that success. Take the Kongpanions again. The evidence in the chart above (and which anyone who has earned Kongpanions for a few years can see on their own Kongpanion page) is provided by Kongregate and is not some quasi realistic data I compiled. After three years, they had lost a third of the players who only had to do a SINGLE BotD a week. The numbers are not about how many shineys were awarded but a count of how many people did at least one (just one) BotD a week. (and while we do not have access to it, I am sure internally Kongregate had data probably showing the number of shiney Kongpanions awarded each week was also dwindling) It was at this point that management should have seen that they could no longer just sit around doing nothing and should have looked for ways to spice things up and get players to continue to participate. They chose not to. And at that point, they should have just ended it all. Ideally that would have seen the trends and already started to work on the next adventure so that when Kongpanions were axed, they could go straight to the next one. So once again, they chose to do nothing but sit on their butts. > And last but not least, there will always be people complaining about the style of Kongpanions. If you keep them the same style, some people will find them too samey. And if you change the style, some people will always complain they look different/better/worse. It's like pokemon, I've heard from people that every new generation pokemans look worse than the previous ones. But feel free to complain about them, it's very entertaining! I will...thank you. The art work would have been one simple way to spice up Kongpanions. There would have been hardly any cost but a lot could have been gained. Again, the Antsy Kongpanion was fantastic. They could have started a rotation of artists as well as opening it up to players to provide artwork and I think more people would have stayed with Kongpanions. As it is, the artwork again is all the same with zero imagination or deviation. They put more effort currently into the bad puns for Kongpanions then they do the artwork. Just add a few more artists and those who love the current style will still see that style every several weeks and while introducing new styles of Kongpanions to the mix.

> *Originally posted by **[bobby71983](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427285)**:* > Sure seems like a slow death. Almost all of the botd's are easy. To miss a botd you basically have to not visit the site for a week. > > Joyce must have been bugged or something. I haven't missed one, but I don't remember any given week being harder than another. > > edit: Oh, I see. Joyce is Kartridge only. That explains that. I never bothered with Kartridge. Joyce wasn't that hard to get and you didn't have to spend any money to get it. I had Kartridge on this computer but I had to reset it after a hard drive failure so I didn't bother with it again. I've also lost progress on all the games I might have almost gotten the badge, so I had to start over when those came up as BOTD too. The thing about kongpanions is they are fun to get. People who had a streak or missed one, might have quit altogether, might have just visited the site a lot less and did what was fun, or started after they missed the first +/-100 or so kongpanions and just get the ones that seem fun, because they'll never catch up with having a full collection. For the people like me who continue to log in, I really only do the kongpanions now. I don't want to lose my streak. I try some other games if they seem fun, but sometimes I wait until after it has a badge so I don't have to conquer it again, as even the most interesting game, sometimes because it is actually too interesting, is not that fun to try again unless it is randomized. I used to have more time for this. I'm not at another game site, but I do spend more time on games on my phone, basically if it has a daily offering, I finish that and get on with the rest of my day.

> *Originally posted by **[bobby71983](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427285)**:* > Sure seems like a slow death. Almost all of the botd's are easy. To miss a botd you basically have to not visit the site for a week. Actually, I'm pretty sure I can get (could have gotten) all botd and all kongpanions, but i just stopped caring enough to even open the page. What's the point of opening a game for 5 seconds without the need to do anything to get a virtual item that's equally useless? I got the first ones and after those I was mostly just like: meh. And never looked back. It's a pointless thing to me. Though, if I had participated in that ongoing thing, I would long since have been lvl75 by now. With the scrapping of new badges I'll never get there, but even that doesn't bother me all that much. Levels and points just for the sake of it is not my thing, I'd rather do something I actually enjoy or something that's an actual challenge. I could be lvl 75 in less than a month by simply rating old games, but again, what's the point. My guess is that the decline that's being seen isn't just less people playing, it's less people caring about a pointless feature. That's probably why the starting decline is much steeper, as all those thinking similar thoughts as me would have dropped out way back then too, while the later decline might be the actual decline. It's all just speculation on my part though. Kong has done that a lot in the past (and they were still doing it up until they closed the site for new games), invest a lot of resources in pointless features while neglecting the core. End result, complete overhaul coming where the core will most likely be thrown out and a whole new experience (that I most likely won't enjoy) will take its place, it's going to be all about the revenue, I'm convinced of that much at least (aka, micropurchases and mmo's and idle games with micropurchases and purchases of on-site worthless items and so on, but we'll see what happens for real when it actually does, speculating doesn't really serve much use either lol).

> *Originally posted by **[bobby71983](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427285)**:* > Sure seems like a slow death. Almost all of the botd's are easy. To miss a botd you basically have to not visit the site for a week. > 3/7 BotD's initially didn't even work properly lol. While 2 of those were fixed ahead of time, today managed to slip through the cracks lol.

> *Originally posted by **[Holy2334](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427679)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[bobby71983](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13427285)**:* > > Sure seems like a slow death. Almost all of the botd's are easy. To miss a botd you basically have to not visit the site for a week. > > > > 3/7 BotD's initially didn't even work properly lol. While 2 of those were fixed ahead of time, today managed to slip through the cracks lol. > > Yeah I reported some missing ones, but kongregate didn't care and just ignored the report. I still got the kongpanion for the week though, so I didn't care. They are meaningless, because kongregate never did anything with them(they tried a few things, but like most of their projects, they failed), but it requires so little effort that I have still tried to maintain the streak.

I just saw the announcement that was apparently posted on July 1st, and one of my thoughts was that I hope that it won't impact the kongpanions thing. (No new games might mean no new badges = BotD cycles will eventually run out?) That's been a big thing to keep me around; without the BotD system (& the weekly kongpanion & shiny), I likely would have forgotten about the site at some point when life got busy. Speaking of Joyce, is it still possible to earn Joyce? The banner at the top of one of the pages (profile page?) seemed to be there in perpetuity, so I always figured that I'd get around to it later. I don't see it now, and I don't want to go through the whole process to install Kartridge if I can't get a kongpanion for it.

> *Originally posted by **[Gradak](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13428018)**:* > I just saw the announcement that was apparently posted on July 1st, and one of my thoughts was that I hope that it won't impact the kongpanions thing. (No new games might mean no new badges = BotD cycles will eventually run out?) That's been a big thing to keep me around; without the BotD system (& the weekly kongpanion & shiny), I likely would have forgotten about the site at some point when life got busy. > Speaking of Joyce, is it still possible to earn Joyce? The banner at the top of one of the pages (profile page?) seemed to be there in perpetuity, so I always figured that I'd get around to it later. I don't see it now, and I don't want to go through the whole process to install Kartridge if I can't get a kongpanion for it. Buh, never mind my Joyce question; I just loaded another page and the banner's still up. I guess that I'll be making some time to mess w/ that before too long, before that gets taken away, too.

In the beginning, a few BotD's were actually Hard badges. Guess there were too many complaints and BotD's were changed to being about 2/3 Easy and 1/3 Medium. The BotD is what caused many people to keep visiting the site, especially completionists like me. So far I have only missed one Shiny. There was never any real use for them, it was all about gotta catch them all and collecting points. I wouldn't be close to Lv 75, if it wasn't for BotD's. This begs the question, will the BotD continue past July 22? It's mostly an automated process after all. Looking at the chart, I guess people REALLY liked Cupert.

> *Originally posted by **[Atombender](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13428124)**:* > The BotD is what caused many people tp keep visiting the site, especially completionists like me. So far I have only missed one Shiny. Same here, but got all shiny. May missed a few Botd, but never a shiny. I have a lot Kongai cards too. Missed only the original set. But got all from the first rerun until Kongai died. > *Originally posted by **[Atombender](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13428124)**:* > This begs the question, will the BotD continue past July 22? It's mostly an automated process after all. Dunno about the exact date, but they will stop I guess. They fired Greg FFS. You cant automate Kongpanions, you need some artist to make it and schedule it all. Botd may work if they keeep cycling, but without Kongpanions they are pretty useless. Well, even more useless.

That's what I meant, you obviously need to draw new Kongpanions but in theory you can keep the BotD running regardless. But then you would just get a bunch of points that make you level up quicker. Except leveling up is also useless. Oh well.

I would think they would have a couple weeks already done but once those run out.....who knows.

Sadly, even if I could have transferred all my Kongpanions from my previous alt, which was almost on-par for all the Kongpanions released from when they first were, to the time I stopped using the alt, I still would be missing so many that it'd take longer than I'll be alive to make up for them, if the annual Kongpanion re-earning event happened. Alas, I'll have to stick with earning a vast majority between the two, and making shiny roughly over half of them. People really didn't like the games of the past couple months or so, eh?

> *Originally posted by **[OceanShores](/forums/1/topics/1917816?page=1#13428694)**:* > People really didn't like the games of the past couple months or so, eh? People have not been playing the games for a while now, well before the pandemic. While it is just a guess, I'd image that most of the 22k who have been getting kongpanions over the last year are those who have been playing long enough that they already have the badges. They dont' have to play the game to win. So to get the BotD, they just load the game, wait for the API to load to award the badge, and then they leave the game. Myself as an example. It is very rare that I have to do a new badge for a kongpanion. There was always a group of new players who had to work to win five new badges a week, but they'd give up over time, especially with no way to make up missed badges that existed before they started to play. The size of this group probably never really changed. So would leave and be replaced by others.

Yeah, it can be like that. For me, I'm just frequently really busy, so it's actually nice to be able to just load the game to get the BotD. That's also why I'm glad that it shows the whole week on Monday: If I am missing a BotD for the week, then I know which day is the last day that I can do it, but I can also do it earlier in the week if an earlier day happens to have some more wiggle room in it. But, that doesn't mean that that's all that I ever do. It was only a few weeks ago that I was looking around the new games for some puzzle games to play, and I played a few. It's hard to believe that, now, there won't be any new games at all. I've got all shiny kongpanioins except I think 1 or 2. (And I don't have Joyce yet, but I plan to do enough Kartridge to get her.) I wish that the *Best of 20XY* quests allowed people to *either* get a missed kongpanion *or* turn a non-shiny into a shiny. Related: In the past, I tended not to acutally bother finishing those quests, since I might need them in case I somehow didn't do BotD for a whole week and missed a kongpanion. Nowadays, it's more about the time thing, plus remembering to check them out.