Hi, I've been playing this game for a long time, peaked at around top 5 on leaderboards, there are a lot of questions I see in the chat for this game... If you have any feedback for the guide or questions I've not answered, please let me know in the comments! (FYI I very often end up editing the guide based on these questions) The chat for this game is basically dead, however there is a discord! https://www.kongregate.com/forums/1058760-incremental-adventures/topics/1874601-official-discord-feel-free-to-join?page=1#posts-13283819 *** # **Should I use this guide?** If you are just beginning the game and enjoying it then there's no real need to use a guide at all, it may diminish the experience. You should only use the guide when: * Progress has slowed and the game is getting boring * You are VERY confused about something * You are getting competitive on the leaderboards and want to plan ahead I wouldn't really bother reading it all in one go... Just the stuff that's relevant to you. I have ordered information such that early game tips are in the beginning, late game tips are towards the end. This includes the FAQ questions. *** Table of Contents: **Settings** **FAQ** **Prestiging new layer (1 - 5)** **Prestige priorities** **Team comp and autobuyers for different floor ranges (find your floor range)** **Prestiging new layers 6 and onwards** **Late Game Team Comp (Armoury 1.6)** **First ascension (layer 1)** **Later ascensions (layer 1)** **Ascension upgrades priority (layer 1)** **First ascension (layer 2)** **Ascension Trials (incomplete)** **"Speedrunning" strategy** *** # **SETTINGS:** **Early on:** Make sure you turn on **timestamps**. Early on you may want on floor notifications and prestiges *** **Later on:** Later on only prestige notifications no floor notifications. Enabling autobuyers on manual prestige is also a good idea in case you manually prestige one of your autobuyer layers. For autobuyers ALWAYS use **lower layer priority** and **split only.** Soft autobuy should be 1.01x *** I would also advise getting **eQueline's QOL extension** for your browser, it provides a lot of useful information. Depending on whether the game has been recently updated it may stop working properly, so I wouldn't try to use autoprestiges of any kind (the manual prestige buttons probably work). The github page also has useful calculators for prestige and ascension points. LINK TO eQueline's POST: https://www.kongregate.com/forums/1058760-incremental-adventures/topics/1865199-equelines-qol-tools-extension-is-updated?page=1#posts-13269652 *** # **FAQ:** When I prestige layer 2, do I lose everything from layer 1? You lose only the stat upgrades; gameplay unlocks, autobuyers and armoury are kept. What is the max no. of heroes/ max stat points? Max heroes is 6, you will unlock heroes only on floors that are multiples of 10 and from prestige unlocks. Max stat points is 25. Why do endgame players recommend full DMG, what's wrong with defensive stats? Later on defensive stats, while they help you push 10-20 extra floors each run, will make your runs take several minutes longer than they should. 10-20 floors seems like a lot to a new player, but when you are in the millions of floors it will make no difference to you. Usually around floor 80-150 you should consider making this transition to having no defensive stats. What does 'runs' mean? Time between prestiges. What does Small Floor Change mean? Small Floor change will trigger your autobuyers when the number of floors you skip is a certain amount below your max floor, it will also ensure that you are not at your maximum floorskip. It tends to be good when you have short runs (3-15 mins depending on where you are) and a floorskip above 50 or so at a guess. How many points should I save up for layer x? See the table of contents and scroll to the appropriate section What should I set my autobuyers too? Check your floor range for more info - generally for early floors use log2 and later floors use a root. Always lower layer priority, mostly *small floor change *sometimes *on respawn*. Since you should never prestige layers 5+ except for the first time, layer 4 or 3 should be used as a failsafe with 1.01x What the heck is log2, log10 etc? log is a mathematical way of of representing how much multiplier we want to see before prestiging a particular layer. The higher your multiplier gets, the more the log of your multiplier will increase. This means after a few layer 1 prestiges the multiplier required will become very high and is more likely to prestige a different layer (such as layer 2). For this reason, early on it is a great idea to use logs as prestige multipliers, since if you use a static value you might just end up prestiging layer 1 forever (for example). I went back and tested different autobuyer settings for the early game and gave some recommendations on when you should use log2, when you should use log10 etc. just refer to the guide for your floor range and see the recommendations for yourself. Make sure to use all the settings I give in the guide (such as lower layer priority). Later on log's can be replaced with roots which serve a similar function. What do soft prestige / improved prestige reset do? * They serve a similar purpose, if I prestige layer 2 for 100 points, then layer 1 will also have 100 points from improved prestige reset. * Each floor I clear after that, my layer 1 will get a % of points from layer 2 again, so before my next prestige my layer 1 might have 150 points already from soft prestiging. * Set the soft autobuy multiplier to 1.01x What does 16th root mean? For those who don't know, (√(current)+10)x is 2nd root, (√√(current)+10)x is 4th root, (√√√(current)+10)x is 8th root etc. *** # **PRESTIGING NEW LAYERS (1 - 5):** Your first** layer 1** prestige should have **2-3 points** Your first** layer 2 **prestige should have **3-6 points** Your first **layer 3** prestige should have** 7-35 points** Your first **layer 4** prestige should have** 20-125 points** Your first **layer 5** prestige should have **80-1000 points** *** # **Prestige Priorities: ** **Early Game** In order of priority, I recommend the following for the early game (First 3-4 layers). 1. EXP/ Hero unlock 2. DMG 3. Respawn at floor (ONLY if it's your first layer) 3. Battle Speed 4. Defensive stat (HP/ Armor) 5. Respawn at floor (not first layer) 6. Floorskip 7. Improved Prestige Reset 8. Soft autobuy *** **Late Game** In order of priority, I recommend the following for the late game (Layers 5+). 1. Floorskip 2. Who even cares... *** # **Team Composition and autobuyers for different floor ranges:** These are rough guidelines, prestige when progress slows in that range. Later prestige guidelines will be given below the early floor explanations. *** >Floor 1 - 10: Your first hero should be a balance between damage and health, doing some quick math it should be easy to work out a good balance between survivability and damage... *** >Floor 10 - 20: 1. Your **second hero** should be** full damage**. Your first should be a **full time tank**, prioritizing a split between **armor and health**. Armor outperforms health when there are **3+ enemies**. 2. Once you get **10 gold** you can go to the **armoury** and get the **stat upgrade** for **rangers**. After that **ditch all your armor** for hp - since that way you benefit from the stat multiplier. 3. After you get **another 10 gold** grab the **warrior stat upgrade** and revert back to** using a warrior tank** with high armor (you can keep 1-2 points in hp for pushing the last floor or two). At around **floor 18** you may hit a wall... I would recommend you avoid prestiging until hitting **2 points** for the extra hero and the EXP. It may take several go's before you get to floor 19. *** >Floor 20 - 35: The floor difficulty scaling should ease up a little, after a while you will start to breeze through floors. You should also go for your first prestige by the time you hit **floor 20**. * After your **third hero** you can try **WRC**, the warrior should have 2 points in armor and the rest in health (so the cleric heal is just below his max hp). The ranger full dmg, the cleric full healing. Grab the **cleric stat upgrade** in the armoury. * You can chuck your next **stat upgrade** into the **ranger** at **100 gold**. You can **replace** your **warrior with a ranger** and have a similar level of tank but with much more damage. * Your** fourth hero** try **WRRC or RRRC** with the same idea just with 2 rangers (maybe a **ranger tank** as well). * You can **prestige** a **second time** with** 4+ points** or so when **progress slows** again. * You shouldn't have enough gold for the blessed upgrade for clerics for until you have the 1**00 gold stat upgrades** for **ranger** and **cleric** first * After the **blessed upgrade**, with 4 heroes you can** try CCCR**, but if the clerics** refuse to heal**, try CCRR (first cleric always tank, rest always damage, rangers always damage). Progress will suck until you **get the overheal for clerics** (so they heal instead of attack). **Prestige** layer 1 after your **first or second death** each time. * Prestige **layer 2** with **3 points+** preferably. *** >Floor 35 - 80: ***AUTOBUYERS***: Log's will be the goto early on since they will increase the threshold for prestiging a layer as it increases, meaning after a few layer 1 prestiges it will prestige layer 2 etc. without any micromanaging. For autoprestige options, once you get to the point where it's worth prestiging layer 1 on every run, I'd recommend using: * **layer1** = log10, **layer2** = 1.01x; lower layer priority; on respawn. *** After your layer 1 multi > 5e11 or so * **layer1** = log2, **layer2** = 1.01x; lower layer priority; on respawn. *** After you get layer 4... * **layer1** = log2, **layer2** = log2, **layer3** = 1.01x; lower layer priority; on respawn. *** ***ARMOURY UPGRADES*** Roughly around** floor 40** you should get enough money for some armoury upgrades (maybe earlier im dumb). As a general rule of thumb, **buy the cheapest** upgrade that is useful. If two upgrades have a **similar cost**, **buy the MORE USEFUL** one. *** * The STAT upgrades for heroes you use are FAIRLY USEFUL * The MORALE bonus for paladins is PRETTY USEFUL * The BLESSED bonus for clerics is VERY USEFUL *** ***TEAM COMPOSITIONS:*** As soon as you have that blessed bonus for clerics, every single heal will boost the stats of the entire team. I would recommend at this point you reformat your heroes into CCCR or CCCRR or CCCCRR --------- (that is with cleric's in front of rangers generally) The **first cleric** should have **health** as a **tank**, the rest should have damage (it's an arbitrary choice). The **rangers** should be full **damage**. Note that at around **floor 80**, your multiplier from prestiges gets so big that the cleric bless is not worth the extra time. **Swap to WPPPPP** as shown below. * You shouldn't have more than 4 clerics or they may stop healing. In some cases cleric healing can be inconsistent (buggy?). * Note that you **need overheal** from the armoury for cleric's to heal a full HP target. * **Don't put ** too many **points in health**. If you only **put a few in health** then your heroes will die right around the time they can no longer kill enemies in 1 hit. Cutting runs short automatically with an autoprestige for layer 1 will benefit you a lot vs spending 15 minutes in one run. * If your **cleric's stop healing** for some reason, you can either **remove one cleric** (Instead of CCCR, try CCRR for example) or you can change to one of the alternatives below. You must make sure your cleric's are **always healing**. * **Edit: ** *If you try to use paladins you might find that your clerics stop healing. In that case don't use them.* Once you have a morale bonus of 50% or more for Paladins, you should consider replacing the 2 rangers with full damage paladins (total stat boost of 125% which means the paladins will do more damage than the rangers would). *** ***Alternatives to this approach...*** * Some people prefer to switch to an end-game oriented approach now (WPPPPP) - usually best to use this while your prestige multipliers are still low, the extra stats from the cleric bless are worth it. After about floor 70-80 you can consider switching, but tbh this is still a ***Strong*** alternative. * Some people prefer a tank infront of the clerics (WCCCCR), I don't like this because it draws out some floors to be quite long (from the tank) and the clerics don't trigger stat boost as often. ***Ok*** alternative (you will have to cut runs short by manually prestiging to make it work). * Some people prefer other random things, like PPPPPP, WCCCPP and lots more (most of which I think are ***Pretty Bad*** alternatives tbh) If you get a **morale** boost of **125%** for paladins, **seriously consider** swapping to the build proposed ahead... (might happen around floor 80 or so) *** > Floor 80 - 1000: * As a note for now and later, **soft autoprestige** and **improved prestige** reset are worth buying once you are getting about 10x that amount of points from prestiging that layer. They are only needed for the first 4 layers and save a large amount of time in building back multiplier in the previous layers. *** ***YOUR FINAL TEAM COMPOSITIONS:*** At this point you should be close to a 125% morale boost from paladins, you should also be taking quite a while to push to high floors. As such the best format of heroes for the rest of the game becomes WPPPPP. *Make sure you have at least one point in Overkill*... Beyond the one point in armor, the Warrior should be full damage. Beyond the one point in healing, so should the Paladins. When you prestige, you should no longer bother putting points in anything except EXP and DMG for obvious reasons, as soon as you are unable to 1-shot the floor your heroes will be killed promptly regardless of your wasted investment in defensive stats. Your armoury upgrades should prioritize the morale boost, followed by the stats of the Paladin (since floorskip is calculated from total dmg, and increasing paladins stats benefits your floorskip more), followed closely by the Warrior stats. *** ***ARMOURY UPGRADES*** * The STAT upgrades for heroes you use are FAIRLY USEFUL * The MORALE bonus for paladins is EXTREMELY USEFUL *** ***AUTOBUYERS***: Once you have a floorskip around 15 or so it may also be worth using small floor change as a condition for trigering autoprestiges, it shaves off about 30-60 seconds from each run and costs a relatively small amount of multiplier increase. ***From my testing, it makes little difference to multiplier at a floorskip of 6, but does roughly double gold gain. By your layer 4 floorskip purchase I'd bet that small floor change is worth using EARLY ON WHILE BUILDING BACK MULTIPLIER.*** **NERD TALK WARNING - FOR AUTOBUYERS** For autoprestiging, keep in mind that theoritically speaking I tend to subscribe to the idea that you should prestige **"whichever layer gives the largest relative multiplier increase"**. That means if layer 1 goes from x10 --- x20 and layer 2 goes from x1 --- x5, then you should prestige layer 2 since it gives a larger relative multiplier increase. The **Exception** to this rule comes when considering added bonuses from new prestige layers, such as the *extra hero* and the *floorskip*. For layers 5+, their multiplier gain is so poor that they would never be worth prestiging if not for these things. From the above you can probably work out which static multiplier (a flat value like x1.1 or x100) you should use simply by observing how many points you would gain from each layer... log2 will tend to fall short after a multiplier of around e10 or so and you may want to use static's for a time since the sqrt()'s have very high static values attached unfortunetely (and may in general be too high). **NERD TALK CONCLUDED** * As an easy way to gauge whether your setting is too low or high... Layer 1 should prestige around 3-5 times before layer 2. Layer 2 should prestige around 4-6 times before layer 3 etc. * Layers 5 + should only be prestiged once, their multiplier boost sucks. * Prestiging new layers will be covered below... Dynamic Values: *** * **layer1** = log2, **layer2** = log2, **layer3** = 1.01x; lower layer priority; on respawn. *** Should NOT be suitable sometime **soon**. Since **log2** will start to become **too low** as your multiplier increases, you can consider** replacing it** with a **root** instead - which has a **similar** role but scales better later on. However all roots have** static values** attached - as in (√√(current)+**e100**)x has a **10^100** added to whatever the multiplier would have been. That means that unless your multiplier in that layer is sufficiently above the static multiplier (usually about **5-20x higher**), you **can't use** the root yet. Once log2 becomes too low for you, try (√√√√√(current)+100)x in layer 1 only. Then when that is also too low; try (√√√√(current)+1000)x for layer 1, at this point you can move on to the autobuyers for the next floor range and aim to slowly adjust your autobuyers to match those that I give - just bearing in mind the static values. It may be worth using **small floor change**, especially after prestiging a higher layer. Static values: The nature of static values is such that they are really only useful to use for a very **short amount of time**, Once you notice that your layer 1 is between** 15,000x - 30,000x**; you could use a **static multi** of **1000x** for layer 1 autobuyer setting, for **example**. Once you notice that your layer 1 is between** e140x - e240x**; you could use a **static multi** of **e10x** for layer 1 autobuyer setting, for **example**. Your layer 3 should stay as 1.01x until you are ready to implement a 4th layer into the autobuyer routine - until then just prestige it manually whenever it seems like you would get a larger multi out of it. *For those who don't know, (√(current)+10)x is 2nd root, (√√(current)+10)x is 4th root, (√√√(current)+10)x is 8th root etc.* *** >Floor 1000+: ***AUTOBUYERS***: Once the static values attributed to the roots are low enough (the multiplier of the layer should be > 5-20x the static multi at the end of the root option in autobuyer menu), the autobuyers I use are as follow; *** * **layer1** = √√√√(current)+1000, **layer2** = √√√(current)+e10, **layer3** = √√(current)+e100, **layer4** = 1.01x** This is often referred to as 16th, 8th, 4th for convenience *** When you are deep into a run and near prestiging a new layer, consider swapping to; * **layer1** = √√√√√(current)+100, **layer2** = √√√√(current)+1000, **layer3** = √√√(current)+e10, **layer4** = 1.01x This is often referred to as 32nd, 16th, 8th for convenience. *** **Note** that you should not use any root multiplier here unless the static part (1000, e10 etc.) is an **insignificant portion of your multiplier,** E.G 1/10th or less of your multiplier in that layer. That means if my layer 3 only has a multiplier of **e200**, then I should not use (√√(current)+**e100**)x because the **static part** (e100) is far** too high**, and I will end up prestiging layer 4 earlier than I want too. Instead I could use (√√√(current)+e10)x, since this is the next best root for that layer which has a low static multiplier. Similarly, if layer 2 only has a multiplier of** e40**, then I should not use (√√√(current)+**e10**)x in that layer, as the **static** is** too high** and would cause me to prestige layer 3 earlier than I intended. The next best root would be √√√√(current)+1000. **NERD TALK WARNING:** However if layer 2 had a multiplier of **e80**, then mathematically **e10** will make little difference towards the next prestige, since **8th root of e80 will be e10** anyway. *** 16th, 8th, 4th is considered **MORE efficient** by gakm4's and eQueline's testing, keep in mind that 32nd, 16th, 8th is heavily weighted towards lower layers and will basically never prestige layer 4 regardless of how much multi it would give to do so... I would stick to 16th, 8th, 4th except when you are about to hit a new layer, in which case it might be best to change to 32nd, 16th, 8th just to squeeze a little extra out of the first two layers and hit that milestone a little earlier. *** # PRESTIGING NEW LAYERS 6 and onwards: * Please bear in mind that thanks to your armoury upgrades, prestiging a new layer without getting any multiplier it will likely take about a day to catch up to where you were (that is past layer 8 or so at a guess). This should help you determine how far to push into a new layer before prestiging. * Later on almost all that **matters** is **floorskip**, with a floorskip of 1 billion, you could easily reach hundreds of billions of floors in about 48 hours with just the first 4 layers. * It is INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT to use **small floor change** after prestiging a new layer, and until runs take about 15 minutes+. As such, given your **priority** should be increasing your **floorskip**, you should try to maximize efficiency in getting new layers as best as possible. If you save up enough points, you can **prestige through multiple layers** for the **extra floorskip** - you only need **5 points** in that **last layer** just ***BACKUP YOUR SAVE FIRST***. For** layers 6-8**, it may be worth prestiging through only one layer at a time to preserve some multiplier, however you could try prestiging through 2 or 3 if you like... But your armoury upgrades might take a little longer to catch you up to where you were. *** Your first **layer 6** prestige should have** e8-e40 points** - **e35** and **3 layers**, **e8** and **2 layers**, Your first **layer 7** prestige should have** e35-e100 points** - *The Above +* **e100** and **1 layer** Your first **layer 8** prestige should have** e8-e100 points** Your first **layer 9** prestige should have **e8-e40 points** - **e100** useless (cause armoury), **e200+** takes too long Your first** layer 10** prestige should have **e8-e40 points** - as a general rule, after catching up to your current floor, you should push for about 24 hours before progress slows and it's time to prestige. *** **Risky Strat!!!** From about layer 9 onwards I'd seriously consider pushing to around e35 points and then prestiging through 3 layers in a row. It will only take a day to catch up to where you were, and getting through 3 layers after about 2 days work will mean that your floor is basically multiplied by 27 every couple days. ***Always backup your save first.*** **You should also make a copy of your save before trying this**, in case you end up with an awkward amount of points (E.G only 4 points in the next layer, not enough for floorskip), or incase your armoury upgrades suck and your **First Layer1 prestige after the new layers gave a multi < 4000 or so.** In which case revert your save and compare it with only prestiging 2 or even 1 layer. It may take an extra 2 or so hours to get from a multi of like 1000 - e10 in layer1. Do the math yourself. *** As a general rule of thumb, you need about e7-e10 points to prestige through 2 layers, you need about e35-e40 points to prestige through 3 layers. From **layers 13-15** or so onwards progress will stagnate if you try to save up too much, just get around e8 points and then prestige through 2 layers once this happens. Given 24 hours to catch up to where you were and 24 hours to push into a new layer, you will be tripling your floor every 24 hours on average. From **layers 20-22** or so onwards progress will stagnate again, you should save up for 5 points and then prestige the next layer. You will still be tripling your floor ever 2-3 days for a while... *** *** *** *** *** # Late Game Team Comp (Armoury 1.6) Please keep in mind that this update has just gone through and the maths may be flawed here. IF YOU FIND A MISTAKE PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN FIX IT! For an alternate view (and possibly some different maths for the best comp) take a look at the AL2+ guide below. https://www.kongregate.com/forums/1058760-incremental-adventures/topics/1891167-1-2-armory-trials-and-al2-guide?page=1#posts-13326743 This is oriented for later on when you have very fast ascensions with very few floors needing to be cleared. *** **Should I care about this?** The following maths is done to work out the team composition which warrants the fastest progression WITH ALL ARMOURY UPGRADES BOUGHT. If you don't have all armoury upgrades just don't worry about it until you do... Based on this spreadsheet from the AL2+ guide. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-GoHnJzY05p8731r2-Up72zkrz3NChr_uDNaCr91HLU/edit#gid=0 *** I do believe the timers are as follows (thanks Sean): 697ms combat actions 600ms floor clear 5s respawn/ prestige *** Here are some compositions to consider: For short runs -------------------- (8-18) floors W R R C P P ------------------- For normal/ long runs ------------- 19+ floors W W R R R P . . . . **SPEEDRUNNING COMPOSITIONS: ------------ Lategame** For very short runs --------------- (4-7) floors W C C R P P ------------------------ For instant prestige runs --------- (1 floor per run followed by prestige) C C C C C P *** The ranger should be in front due to the boss heirloom. Order doesn't really matter though. Since the difference between these compositions can be quite trivial, if you plan on **going AFK** for an extended time and expect to eventually hit some longer runs (like longer than **30 seconds**), I'd recommend just **swapping to** the *normal comp*, since it will not lose much time with shorter runs but will save a lot of time with the longer runs. **LATE GAME** Since rushing ascensions becomes extremely useful after a few stat upgrades into ascension layer 2, you will probably find yourself automatically ascending at prestige layer 20. The late game comp should be used for this exclusively when you DO NOT need to prestige the** same layer more than once** during the ascension run. Even if you clear 5 floors or so on the very last layer, this is not having a significant effect on efficiency when compared to a more balanced comp. When speedrunning, taking a balanced approach with the 4-7 floor comp can be good if you are clearing some floors during recovery. *** *** *** *** *** # **First Ascension: (layer 1)** Around this point you should be getting **4** ascension points. For your first ascension this is around what you want. From my experience and very basic understanding of the ascension upgrades: * The perk which **autobuys floorskip** sounds really **useful** since you can just prestige a new layer with 1 point instead of 5 (requires **2 perk points**) * The **first TWO stat boosts** seems **VERY useful**, especially the first couple upgrades just to speed up progress** early in runs**. The first upgrade will save **around 24 hours total** in catching up to your previous high floor at a guess. The second allowed me to reach layer 20 in less than 24 hours, the third onwards made little difference to this milestone (maybe saving an hour or two here and there). This is very quick, runs between ascensions will stop taking 10 days+ and start taking 5 days or less for the same reward after a few stat boosts. * following **stat boosts** upgrades scale horribly, and are ** barely useful**. * **Reduce prestige requirement** will help for reaching new layers as well as somewhat accelerating progress in layers 3+, it can be considered **very useful**. I would at least advise getting any cheaper stat boosts first. According to eQueline's testing this is **slightly better** than the** improved floorskipper**, but they provide about the **same value for their cost**. * The **improved floorskipper** will by** layer 28** multiply your floorskip by roughly **x3** - this is a srsly big deal it will basically reduce your run length from like 40 minutes to 13 minutes. Making it **very useful**, no doubt you should consider grabbing this your first couple ascensions. * **Soft prestige improvement** can be considered **mildly-useful** and should only be bothered with after you have all cheaper upgrades, potentially you could even save up for **reduce prestige diminishing return** first. *** You should generally save up for **4 points** or **1 point**. Some combinations to try (I haven't tested them on first ascension, but I have gotten all these upgrades and evaluated their usefulness). * **1 point for one stat upgrade**, given that you may be able to catch back up to layer 20 in about 30-40 hours, this might actually be the most efficient course of action right now as waiting for layer 26 for 4 points will take several days. This is a **very strong option** though I haven't tested it. eQueline recommends this option as the best. * **4 points** for a **single stat upgrade** and** improved floorskipper**. This will let you get to layer 20 in about 30-35 hours or so at a guess and will let you push an extra couple layers from improved floorskip in a similar amount of time. Keep in mind each extra layer may only give 1 extra ascension point. I'd say this is a **quite good option**. * **4 points** for **two stat upgrades**, These will let you breeze through early layers and get to layer 20 in about 24 hours or so, and generally is only a good idea if you want to rush ascensions in about 2 days or less. As you reach higher layers you will find the stat boost makes less and less difference. Keep in mind also you will get more ascension points (at the same relative layer) for any points you spend on these upgrades. This is a **reasonable option** in my opinion. * **5 points** for a **single stat upgrade** and** reduce prestige point requirement**. This will make the earlier and mid layers quite a bit faster due to the stat upgrade speeding up recovery from early layers (layer 20 in about 29-34 hours or so at a guess) and the reduce prestige point requirement, which provides useful mathematical efficiencies to reaching new layers faster, however at later layers I'd bet that the improved floorskipper probably provides more value (though really hard to tell without testing). This is also a **reasonable option**. Keep in mind I have not tested this and can't say for sure how good it actually is... *** You can use eQueline's ascension point calculator on Github - his extension should also indicate when the next ascension point is - to determine when you will reach a given ascension point. https://www.kongregate.com/forums/1058760-incremental-adventures/topics/1865199-equelines-qol-tools-extension-is-updated?page=1#posts-13269652 *** ***Prestige process for first ascension: *** With regards to the most efficient way of skipping prestige layers, if you **only have 1 stat upgrade** *(Otherwise, skip ahead to the guide for 2 stat upgrades)*: * You should probably skip layers until around **layer 10** (won't take more than 30 minutes or so) and make sure to buy the soft prestige improvement up to layer 5. * I would then generally recommend **skipping 1 layer**, keep in mind the *stat upgrade is quite significant, this provides an insentive to prestige new layers slightly earlier, since it will take so little time to catch back up to your current layer*. However I still believe skipping a layer is better here until you have 2 stat boosts, then you can simply prestige new layers as soon as they are available. * At about **layer 16-19** you should definetely start **skipping layers (probably 1-2)** again as the *stat boost becomes somewhat negligible* and it takes ages to catch up to your current layer. * Then by approximately **layer 24-27** it will once again be better to go **layer by layer** as the *run length goes up so much* that skipping a layer takes several hours extra. *** # **Later Ascensions: (layer 1)** ***The prestige process: *** After each ascension (with **2 or more stat upgrades**) I would recommend immediately prestiging up to layer 5/6 on first run, then after literally 1-2 floors cleared you can prestige again through to layer 8/9 and buy all the soft prestige upgrades up to layer 5 on the way. * After **layer 8/9**, you can turn on the* autounlock new layers perk* if you have it (or manually **layer by layer** whenever possible). * ***Optionally*** come back at around **layer 20-25** to begin **skipping a layer**; again as the *stat boost becomes somewhat negligible* and it takes ages to catch up to your current layer (you can automate this with the perk that skips a layer). * Continue until about layer **34-40** when it is now once again better to go** layer by layer** as the *run length goes up so much* that skipping a layer takes several hours extra. *** I waited for 5 points for my **second ascension** and got the **soft prestige improvement** *Don't actually do what I did lol*. Depending on your first ascension I would recommend different things... * If you have** two stat boosts** you can ascend relatively early with another roughly **3 points**, whenever progress slows feel free to ascend (keep in mind this will be super short so you will have if anything a better efficiency than other options here). * If you have** improved floorskipper** you should really take advantage of it and push to layer 28+ and get **7-9 points** or so. No need to push excessively far. * If you have reduce prestige point requirement you can push a little further than last time (maybe around layer 28-29). Once again whenever progress slows significantly feel free to ascend. ***Progress slows significantly*** for me would be if runs are taking 20-24+ hours for a new prestige layer. At this point it's at your discretion when you think is a good time to ascend. You should aim to essentially fill in ascension upgrades that you missed out from the other options, since they are still the most efficient upgrades. Definetely prioritize a second stat boost. *** # Ascension upgrade priority: (layer 1) The order in which I would personally prioritize ascension upgrades are as follows: 1. First stat boost 2. Improved floorskipper 3. Second stat boost 4. Reduce prestige point requirement 5. Reduce prestige diminishing return *(this is actually quite strong from my experience, ascension runs to layer 20 went from about 18-20 hours to about 13-14 hours after getting this.)* 6. Third stat boost/ soft prestige improvement *(barely noticable affect)* 7. Improved floorskipper at later layers *(will help with longer runs past layer 25 or so quite a lot)* 8. Fourth stat boost *(ONLY GET THIS IF IT ALLOWS YOU TO ASCEND AT LAYER 20 FOR 2 POINTS, ITS MOSTLY USELESS)* 9. Improved ascension point gain *(massively useful)* Of course if two items have a similar priority grab the most expensive one you can afford. You can also try to time your ascensions so that you finish with just enough points for these upgrades and don't end up with leftover points, but leftover points will improve your point gain on the next ascension run anyway so not a big deal there. *** Once you have a second perk point definetely get the **autofloorskip** **unlock**. This will work beautifully well with the **autoprestige new layers unlock** once that becomes available. **How far to push: (before upgrade no. 6)** Early on push until you can get the next upgrade in the list or even the next two upgrades if you are progressing quickly. **How far to push: (after upgrade no. 6)** **GOOD STRAT:** As for how far to push the most important factor is whether or not you have the most expensive gameplay unlock (improved ascension point gain), this massively increases ascension point gain at later layers and makes it worth pushing to layer 40 almost making sure you include the perk which skips one layer. Before that point, you can consider rushing some ascensions for 2 points at layer 20 (if you have enough stat upgrades) in order to build enough perk points for the layer skipping, then medium length runs somewhere shy of layer 30 should give the optimal amount of ascension points while you save up for the last gameplay unlock. **BAD STRAT:** One (poor) strategy is to grind for the **autounlock softprestige** perk (36 points required total). I have tried this and found that the trickle down even from higher layers makes very little difference to progress early on, however can benefit later layers. Honestly it is not worth grinding perk points for this just progress normally and get all the gameplay unlocks first then you'll hit layer 2 in a reasonable amount of time (in fact I probably would have hit layer 2 before getting this, I tried it and it failed). >Floor e20+: **NEW NOTATION:** *x/5/3* just means... *layer 1 = x (or 1.01x), layer2 = 5 (or √√√√√), layer3 = 3 (or √√√)* Basically** left-right** follows **lowest-highest** prestige layer. Note that due to **higher layer priority**, these autobuyers are structured in almost the opposite way from when we used lower layer priority; the 1.01x failsafe is now put in the lowest prestigable layer rather than the highest. *** ***AUTOBUYERS***: At around e20 floors you should consider using **higher layer priority** with **x/5/3** according to eQueline. (where x = 1.01x, 5 = √√√√√, 3 = √√√) Personally at this point I prefer to use** x/4/2**, since it keeps layer 1 involved. They are probably quite similar speed and I haven't done any testing. MAKE SURE ALL OTHER LAYERS HAVE DEFAULT MULTI OF THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE SO THEY WON'T PRESTIGE BY ACCIDENT **NERD TALK WARNING** So some of you have just been blindly following my lead on autobuyer settings this whole time, despite this there is a lot of debate as to the 'perfect' autobuyer settings at any given point in the game. For example, during AL1 some people have found through testing that 3/2/2/x is best, others swear by 5/3/2/x, whereas I've personally found 3/3/2/x to be better for the first 10 layers or so and blah blah blah. Keep in mind a few factors which will effect optimal autobuyer settings * Soft prestige upgrades **improves higher layers** * Floor number (scales with soft prestige) **improves higher layers** * Reduced Prestige Point Requirement **improves higher layers** * Stat multipliers from other sources **??? wot mate???? maybe improves higher layers early in the run????/?** * Reduced Prestige Diminishing Return **improves lower layers** Keeping these things in mind this should hopefully help you make your own decisions as to autobuyer settings at any point in the game - the more floors you've cleared and the more of these upgrades you have, the more you should try to weight your autobuyer settings towards prestiging higher layers more often. Past a certain point we'll start neglecting layer 1 completely and only prestiging layers 2-5 etc. **NERD TALK CONCLUDED** *** # First ascension: (layer 2) I would recommend **ascending layer 2 for 1 point**. There are two main reasons for this... **1.** Most of the benefit from layer 1 is in the **gameplay unlocks**, which you will **keep**. The only thing you will **lose** are the **stat upgrades**. Since you will get a stat upgrade in layer 2, after a day's progress you can get another stat upgrade in layer 1 and all of a sudden** after only a day you will have a very similar overall stat boost** to before you ascended **2. **You can earn **ascension layer 2 points more efficiently (roughly 4x)** (i.e for less layer 1 points per point), meaning you will actually be able to get more layer 2 points faster than if you continue saving for points in layer 1. This is due to the *stat upgrade* you just got in layer 2 as well as the fact you are now earning your 'first' layer 2 point again rather than waiting around for your second (which will require like 400 more points). In fact according to eQueline's ascension point calculator, you will get 2 more ascension layer 2 points after only about 200 layer 1 points. That's **400** more layer 1 points for an extra layer 2 point in **layer 1** - in contrast to - **100** more layer 1 points for an extra layer 2 point **if you ascend now**.. >Floor e20+: ***AUTOBUYERS***: **NEW NOTATION:** *x/5/3* just means... *layer 1 = x (or 1.01x), layer2 = 5 (or √√√√√), layer3 = 3 (or √√√)* Basically** left-right** follows **lowest-highest** prestige layer. Note that due to **higher layer priority**, these autobuyers are structured in almost the opposite way from when we used lower layer priority; the 1.01x failsafe is now put in the lowest prestigable layer rather than the highest. *** At around e20 floors you should consider using **higher layer priority** with **x/5/3** according to eQueline. (where x = 1.01x, 5 = √√√√√, 3 = √√√) Personally at this point I prefer to use** x/4/2**, since it keeps layer 1 involved. They are probably quite similar speed and I haven't done any testing. MAKE SURE ALL OTHER LAYERS HAVE DEFAULT MULTI OF THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE SO THEY WON'T PRESTIGE BY ACCIDENT >Floor e22+: ***AUTOBUYERS***: At around e22 floors you should consider **Involving layer 4** back into the regiment. Instead of x/5/3 you could try **x/5/3/1** Personally at this point I prefer to use** x/4/2/0**, since it keeps layer 2 involved. The 0 in this case represents current(x) MAKE SURE ALL OTHER LAYERS HAVE DEFAULT MULTI OF THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE SO THEY WON'T PRESTIGE BY ACCIDENT >Floor e27+ OR you have **Reduced Prestige Point Requirement** at around e23+: ***AUTOBUYERS***: It's worth involving layer 5 in the regiment now. You could try x/5/3/1/-1, where -1 represents current(x^2) I haven't reached this point yet full disclaimer but thanks to Varlane for the advice! *** # Ascension upgrade priority: (layer 2) The order in which I would personally prioritize ascension upgrades are as follows: (based off Varlane's advice) 1. First stat boost 2. Second stat boost (this allows you to hit layer 20 so quickly that it becomes very efficient to rush layer 1 ascensions) 3. Reduced Prestige Point Requirement (hit layer 20 so quickly that you never have to prestige the same layer more than once) 5. Third stat boost (makes ascension layer 2 process a bit quicker) 6. Fourth/ fifth stat boost... (not much else that's useful to be honest) 7. Autobuyer (saves a lot of effort) 8. More stat boosts/ gameplay unlocks. Of course if two items have a similar priority grab the most expensive one you can afford. You can also try to time your ascensions so that you finish with just enough points for these upgrades and don't end up with leftover points. Also After the second stat boost you should consider using the *Auto Ascend on recovery* perk, it is very useful for rushing ascensions. After you have no.4 you should be able to gain about 372 AP per minute assuming you have cleared the first round of ascension trials and use the CCCCCP teamcomp *** # Ascension Trials The rewards for basically every ascension trial are incredibly useful, so they should be done pretty much as soon as they can be completed in a reasonable time (probably about **6-12 hours** or less for **each trial**). They will often warrant a lot more micro-managing, so if you don't have the time or patience for it just wait until you unlock the next ascension layer and the challenge becomes trivial. For a more in-depth analysis check out the AL2+ guide below. https://www.kongregate.com/forums/1058760-incremental-adventures/topics/1891167-1-2-armory-trials-and-al2-guide?page=1#posts-13326743 Given the great advice already given here I don't really see much need to try and offer my own advice, these trials are not my strong suite. *** # "Speedrunning" strategy After you reach a point where you can clear prestige layers like floors up to an ascension, you will start an insane cycle of speedrunning through ascensions. Some tips for this include... * Make sure to** save up** for an extra couple points for the **first couple stat upgrades in a layer** if your ascension runs are still slow. * Don't forget to **do the ascension trials** at some point... * Pay close attention to how many ascension points you are earning in the **highest layer** - after a certain point in a run your **progress** will **suddenly drop** to a crawl, and it's time to ascend something. * You should basically always use **ascension autobuyers** once you have the key gameplay unlocks and some **spare points** - saves a lot of hassle having to manually buy the upgrades and improves efficiency overall. * Remember to change your **team composition**, especially when you have just ascended your **highest layer** The order in which I would personally prioritize ascension upgrades are as follows (for new ascension layers in general when speedrunning): 1. First stat boost 2. Second stat boost 3. Reduced Prestige Point Requirement (helps for pushing to higher prestige layers and for reaching higher prestige multipliers) 5. Third stat boost 6. Fourth/ fifth stat boost... (not much else that's useful to be honest) 7. Autobuyer (saves a lot of effort) 8. More stat boosts/ gameplay unlocks. ***AUTOBUYERS***: Keep in mind as you progress further and continue unlocking RPPR and ISP, your autobuyers should start to be weighted more and more towards prestiging higher layers more often. You can consider using 3/2/1/x instead of 4/3/2/x on recovery, for example. ***AUTOBUYERS*** ASCENSION I would recommend working with log10 and log2 for most of the time, however sometimes you will need to use statics. An example for someone who is currently in ascension layer 3 might be x/log10 For someone in ascension layer 4 it might be x/log2/log10. Keep in mind that your autobuyer might not account for the weird mathematical walls that ascension layers hit - after a certain point you will start gaining ascension points INCREDIBLY slowly for a given layer. If you watch when this happens you can set an appropriate static multiplier for right before the wall is hit. Probably 2x and 5x will be most useful early on. At the moment I use **higher layer priority** and **on recovery** - there is a case to be made for lower layer priority but I'm concerned if I make a mistake with my autobuyers I will end up neglecting higher layers, so as long as I can make this work I will. Also keep in mind layer 1 will autoascend from our perk, so for the autobuyer might as well leave it at 1.01x just to make sure we buy as many stat upgrades as possible. *** # End Bearing in mind a lot of players are currently progressing faster than me I'd love some opinions on the ascension layer 2 upgrades priority and the latest updates changes. In general I always appreciate feedback and questions!

Good overall guide. At layers 20+ i would actually recommend prestiging as soon as you get 5 points to get the floor skip upgrade. It allows you to jump layers almost every day until 25. After 25 it is slowing down significantly. I would also recommend using (√√√√(current)+10)x higher even on prestige layer 26 where i am currently. In my testing that has always been the most efficient one to run. Also from my testing i dont find much if any difference between running respawn vs small floor change even at 2e13 max floor. While at those numbers you wont get much if any noticable gain from going those extra floors.

> *Originally posted by **[gakm4](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13263637)**:* > Good overall guide. At layers 20+ i would actually recommend prestiging as soon as you get 5 points to get the floor skip upgrade. It allows you to jump layers almost every day until 25. After 25 it is slowing down significantly. > > I would also recommend using (√√√√(current)+10)x higher even on prestige layer 26 where i am currently. In my testing that has always been the most efficient one to run. Also from my testing i dont find much if any difference between running respawn vs small floor change even at 2e13 max floor. While at those numbers you wont get much if any noticable gain from going those extra floors. I actually did mention towards the bottom exactly what you said about layers 20+ As for the small floor change, from my testing I've found it tends to increase efficiency until runs are around 15 minutes long roughly. If you imagine just prestiging a new layer, your runs will take 45 seconds on respawn, and 15 seconds on small floor change. That's a fricken huge timesaver man. Later on though that 30-60 seconds it saves you means very little given it also reduces the gains from your runs slightly. Thanks for the super quick feedback :P, I have mentioned your testing for autobuyer efficiency.

Your expliation of autobuyers was kind of confusing to me. At layer 7 what would you set your autobuyers to?

> *Originally posted by **[dzatman2000](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13264247)**:* > Your expliation of autobuyers was kind of confusing to me. At layer 7 what would you set your autobuyers to? *dzat* at layer 7 unfortunetely does not tell me exactly where u are -- if you just prestiged layer 7 you could have a very low multi still in which case log2 for all layers is suitable Refer to the guide in whatever floor range you are at - consider using the roots as long as you have a sufficiently big multiplier to handle them. Once the static values attributed to the roots are low enough (the multiplier of the layer should be > 20x the static multi at the end of the root option in autobuyer menu), the autobuyers I use are as follow; layer1 = (√√√√(current)+1000)x, layer2 = (√√√(current)+e10)x, layer 3 = (√√(current)+e100)x, layer4 = 1.01x When you are deep into a run and near prestiging a new layer, consider swapping to; layer1 = (√√√√√(current)+100)x, layer2 = (√√√√(current)+1000)x, layer3 = (√√√(current)+e10)x, layer4 = 1.01x * Note that you should not use any root multiplier here unless the static part (1000, e10 etc.) is only 1/20th or less of your multiplier in that layer * That means if my layer 3 only has a multiplier of e400, then I should not use (√√(current)+e100)x because the static part (e100) is far too high, and I will end up prestiging layer 4 earlier than I want too.

That makes sense, thanks for the help.

Im at layer 22.What do you propose i do?Keep on farming for perks or just do an ascension which will massively reducem my power.Has anyone done an ascension?

> *Originally posted by **[XxToaaXx](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13265179)**:* > Im at layer 22.What do you propose i do?Keep on farming for perks or just do an ascension which will massively reducem my power.Has anyone done an ascension? From what I can tell from the chat you want around 4 ascension points before doing an ascension (this might be wrong tbh we don't have any experience with it yet really). The perk which autobuys floorskip sounds really useful since you can just prestige a new layer with 1 point instead of 5 (requires 2 perk points) The xp boost seems mildly useful, especially the first couple upgrades just to speed up progress early on. The improved floorskipper will by layer 28 multiply your floorskip by x3 - this is a srsly big deal it will basically reduce your run length from like 40 minutes to 13 minutes If you want to play it safe save up for 4 points at least - the xp and improved floorskiper should let you push some srsly high layer. If you want to take a risk try with 3 points and just get the improved floorskipper - your armoury upgrade should let you catch up to where u were quite quickly anyway floorskip is what really counts.

So 4 to be safe and 3 if i want to not be safe haha.Thanks a lot i will wait till 4. Im on my way to the second point.But each new prestige layer takes 2 days is that normal at layer 20 +?

> *Originally posted by **[XxToaaXx](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13265636)**:* > So 4 to be safe and 3 if i want to not be safe haha.Thanks a lot i will wait till 4. Im on my way to the second point.But each new prestige layer takes 2 days is that normal at layer 20 +? Abseloutely normal, it's exactly what I prescribed towards the end of the guide. TBH 3 might be more efficient but I have no clue - how many ascension points would you get right now?

1 asc point only. i think im pretty close to layer 23. So with 4 points i will get upgrades from layer and floor skip from perks and improved floorskip and a exp boost is that right? I do feel that the exp boost would be good. But the question is if the exp boost is worth the extra time for that single ascension.

> *Originally posted by **[XxToaaXx](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13265645)**:* > 1 asc point only. i think im pretty close to layer 23. > > So with 4 points i will get upgrades from layer and floor skip from perks and improved floorskip and a exp boost is that right? I do feel that the exp boost would be good. But the question is if the exp boost is worth the extra time for that single ascension. TBH it's probably not that useful... Might save a few hours here and there. Also you get 1 perk point from each ascension so you won't be able to get the autofloorskip thing until next ascension.

Nice guide! Thank you for taking the time to write it! I have stickied it to the forum. People will want to read this!

> *Originally posted by **[manowar999](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13264578)**:* > * Note that you should not use any root multiplier here unless the static part (1000, e10 etc.) is only 1/20th or less of your multiplier in that layer > * That means if my layer 3 only has a multiplier of e400, then I should not use (√√(current)+e100)x because the static part (e100) is far too high, and I will end up prestiging layer 4 earlier than I want too. You are explaining something mathematically very wrong here... because 20 * 1e100 = 2e101...

> *Originally posted by **[manowar999](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13263619)**:* >Once you have a morale bonus of 50% or more for Paladins, you should replace all your rangers. If you do this your clerics stop healing.

> *Originally posted by **[killerkonnat](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13265980)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[manowar999](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13264578)**:* > > * Note that you should not use any root multiplier here unless the static part (1000, e10 etc.) is only 1/20th or less of your multiplier in that layer > > * That means if my layer 3 only has a multiplier of e400, then I should not use (√√(current)+e100)x because the static part (e100) is far too high, and I will end up prestiging layer 4 earlier than I want too. > > You are explaining something mathematically very wrong here... because 20 * 1e100 = 2e101... > > killerkonnat while I could go to the effort of mentioning of using the power symbol and doing a bunch of math - later on it's an unsaid agreement that when we talk about multiplier we treat the number after the exponent like its own multi. That is 20x e100 will be e2000 even though that is nowhere near mathematically correct but is convenient for discussion. I'm sorry if this is confusing.

> *Originally posted by **[Gniller](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13265972)**:* > Nice guide! Thank you for taking the time to write it! > > I have stickied it to the forum. People will want to read this! Cheers! :D

> *Originally posted by **[KDBA](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13266098)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[manowar999](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13263619)**:* > >Once you have a morale bonus of 50% or more for Paladins, you should replace all your rangers. > > If you do this your clerics stop healing. KDBA if this is actually the case then I apologize for the misinformation - i have been under the impression that clerics only stop healing if there are more than 4 of them. Are you sure that having CCCCPP would prevent the clerics from healing when CCCCRR wouldn't? Also I believe having one point in overheal may encourage them to heal full hp targets... Not really sure tbh been too long since I did this stuff.

Yep, totally sure. 

> The nature of static values is such that they are really only useful to use for a very short amount of time, Once you notice that your layer 1 is between 15,000x - 30,000x; you could use a static multi of 1000x for layer 1 autobuyer setting, for example. I might just be super dumb/tired but im not understanding how you calculate the multiplier can you give an example of how a Layer is between 15,000x - 30,000x

> *Originally posted by **[Jonnu](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13266430)**:* > > The nature of static values is such that they are really only useful to use for a very short amount of time, > Once you notice that your layer 1 is between 15,000x - 30,000x; you could use a static multi of 1000x for layer 1 autobuyer setting, for example. > > I might just be super dumb/tired but im not understanding how you calculate the multiplier can you give an example of how a Layer is between 15,000x - 30,000x I'm just talking about your stat multiplier. It is announced when you presige E.G layer 1 prestiged from 12000x > 15500x This general sort of range is given only for players who can't be bothered doing all the maths that comes with autobuyers (which is quite a lot). While it's definetely not perfect it should be good enough.

i'm using the CCCR setup where my frontline C has full hp and the other two have full healing. i have 5% bless and 5% overheal. the full healing clerics aren't healing at all, because the frontline cleric is full healing himself every time and i have no idea how. if my front cleric has 10k hp max hp (just an example number) and he gets hit down to 1k hp, and his healing stat says 1k, he'll heal for 10k and i have no idea how it's happening. my understanding is he should heal for 1k (because that's what his healing stat says) and then his hp would be at 2k, and then the 5% from bless would apply getting his max hp to like 10.5k or whatever. and in this situation, it doesn't seem like overheal should apply at all since i'm not near max hp. but for some reason he's full healing and then since he's at full health i guess, the other 2 clerics are attacking instead of healing. idk if i'm an idiot or what but the CCCR strat does not seem to be working for me.

> *Originally posted by **[Sameezy](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=1#13266620)**:* > i'm using the CCCR setup where my frontline C has full hp and the other two have full healing. i have 5% bless and 5% overheal. > > the full healing clerics aren't healing at all, because the frontline cleric is full healing himself every time and i have no idea how. if my front cleric has 10k hp max hp (just an example number) and he gets hit down to 1k hp, and his healing stat says 1k, he'll heal for 10k and i have no idea how it's happening. my understanding is he should heal for 1k (because that's what his healing stat says) and then his hp would be at 2k, and then the 5% from bless would apply getting his max hp to like 10.5k or whatever. and in this situation, it doesn't seem like overheal should apply at all since i'm not near max hp. but for some reason he's full healing and then since he's at full health i guess, the other 2 clerics are attacking instead of healing. > > idk if i'm an idiot or what but the CCCR strat does not seem to be working for me. Sameezy the reason you're cleric is being fully healed is likely a bug assuming everything you said is correct. I actually encountered a very similar bug in my early game where clerics were full healing heroes despite having put literally no points in healing and tons in hp. Generally this bug can be pretty useful to you - however in your case if you're cleric's aren't healing the only two things I can recommend are to try changing your comp (such as using WPPP) or by getting rid of one cleric (CCRR). When I said that more than 4 cleric's causes them to stop healing, this might not apply in the case where you only have 4 heroes, so maybe you have too many clerics relative to heroes... Also usually by the time you have bless and overheal you should also have the stats to prestige layer 2/ get to floor 30 and have a fifth hero.

thanks for the reply manowar. i got home today and had the 5th hero unlocked (woot!) and now I'm using CCCRR and the clerics are now healing as intended. good to know that clerics sometimes don't wanna behave, if that happens again i'll try to mess with the comp so that the clerics end up healing again.